What Business Leaders Can Learn from Sports Teams.

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Opinions expressed in this episode are personal. They do not necessarily reflect the views of this streaming platform. [00:00:11] Speaker B: Good day, everyone, and welcome to another edition of let's Be Diverse. I am your host, Andrew Stout. This episode is dedicated to all my loved ones who've supported me through this journey. Those who have left us will always be in our hearts and will never be forgotten. Today our topic is what business leaders can learn from sports teams. Our guest today is someone that I have known for a very long time. His name is Grant Needham. Grant, welcome to the show today. I'm so excited to have you joining us. [00:00:41] Speaker A: I'm very, very pleased to be here. And I'm even more pleased that you didn't actually say how long we've known each other, because then that would just age me and forget my gray hair. But at least I have hair, Andrew. At least I have hair. [00:00:54] Speaker B: Yes, you do. And yes, I. I do not have any hair. And for those who know me, yes, I am balding on the top of the head. [00:01:00] Speaker A: And. [00:01:01] Speaker B: And that's okay. Grant, how are things with you, buddy? What's going on? Give us the tea, the deets. Give us it all. What's going on, buddy? [00:01:07] Speaker A: So the last time we spoke, we were 19. So I'll start in our 20th year. Things are good. Things have been fairly good, you know, life after soccer for me. And I know we're going to talk about the sort of the parallels between business and sports and what we can learn from both of those to bring into our own perspective, sides of that. That discussion. Got married, have kids. Kids are athletes. Didn't realize what our parents went through, Andrew, about kids being athletes. Then I didn't realize the money pit that it becomes. On the pay to play sort of model, you know, retired, still keep my hand involved in things, but at the end of the day, I'm happy. And I think that that goes a long way to where I've come and where I want to go. I. I'm happy. [00:01:55] Speaker B: You've hit it right there. We have to find. And we talked a little bit before we started taping here. And we gotta. We look at life, and when we're happy, we have to look at. Say, you know what? I'm happy with where I am. I'm happy how things are going, and I'm happy with the way that I am today and the person I am today. And I think that's. I think that's super important, and I think it's something that we need to remember, especially as we get older. [00:02:19] Speaker A: For sure. Yeah. And I think that before we were taping this, we were talking about a lot of people remember who I was and not who I am. And there's a lot of people. I meet them now that Montreal has three professional teams in Montreal. Now we've stole the CF Montreal or the Impact, which it should never have changed days, but that's another story. Then you have the FC super, which is coming back, and then you have the Roses. I played for two other three professional teams in Montreal. And a lot of people, like, I remember you from back then, and I'm like, yeah, that was a lifetime ago. That was young and fit and no gray hairs and fit and healthy and all those things. I just sort of. Now I'm happy. Before I was driven, now I'm happy. Yeah. [00:03:03] Speaker B: And we all change, right? As time goes on, things change. Our lives change. I was talking to somebody way, way back, and he was saying, what motivated me when I was 20 doesn't motivate me the same as now or didn't. When I was 30, it was different. When I was 40, it was different. So it changes as our life cycle goes. And that's part of it is part of life. [00:03:28] Speaker A: And I totally agree. And I'm glad we stopped at 40, because I don't want to get any older than 40. It's sort of the old. We talk about the analogy. You're getting to the top of the mountain but staying at the top of the mountain. And then there's only so long you can stay at the top of the mountain after you've climbed up there. And there's. It's not about the physical side, it's not about. More about the mental side of things. It's tough every single day to be elite all the time, every minute. And then once you've decided that that's no longer the life you want to lead, things have to change because you can no longer be doing those type of things. And I think that's. You mature, you get older, different. Different priorities come into effect. And at the end of the day, what. What inspired me at, you know, 15, 16, to 20, to 25, to 30, to 40, to. God, I can't believe I'm going to say this to 50, and I'm going to stop at 50 because I don't want to get any farther than that. But I go like I'm now looking at. All right. And some of the things that I did growing up, and I know we were part of the same generation, but some of the things that I did when I was playing as a, as an athlete. It just wouldn't happen today. Things that were said, things that were done wouldn't happen today. And I think part of me is we laugh. And it was all the other day, I was getting together with some of the guys, Andrew, and then we were laughing, saying, I don't know if we would be disciplined to survive in the professional ranks right now. I don't know. But I guarantee you, none of those guys today would have been able to survive in our time because of the things that were done unprofessionally in our, in our social lives and work. But, but again, at the end of the day, I think that when you're passionate about something and your passions change, like you said about getting older, and I think that that's the evolution of life. Again, you can't hold regrets. And I have none. I have zero regrets in what I've, where I've. What I've done in the past and where I am now. [00:05:27] Speaker B: So, Grant, before we get into the meat and bones of this conversation here, I always have a fun, thought provoking question to ask my guests to get things going. Are you ready for yours today, bud? [00:05:36] Speaker A: Well, hold on. Thought provoking. We could go anywhere on this one. All right, all right, let me have it. [00:05:42] Speaker B: So this might go back to the old days because for. [00:05:46] Speaker A: You were just about to say dollar days. [00:05:48] Speaker B: Well, dollar days. Because the, the. For those who don't know, Grant and I grew. I grew up with Grant. We grew up together, we hung out together, we played hockey together, we played soccer together. So I've known this guy, I've known this cat for a long, long time. So. So I'm interested to see what he says on this one here. So if your life had a theme song that played every time you entered the room, Grant, what would the vibe be and why? [00:06:13] Speaker A: Well, here we go. I would have different songs for different eras. Okay. And the ERA from 15 to 20 would have to be simply the best. Yeah. Because that was the mentality you had to have of being a professional athlete playing with the national team, you. You had to believe in yourself the most. So I think it would be simply the best because every time I stepped on a field and I tell people that ask me is I believed I was the greatest player to ever step on that field. And that's how I played. That's how I lived my life right to the end. That's how I played the game, that's how I thought about the game, and that's how I stayed at the Highest level I could in this country for those that many years. That would not be my, you know, maybe in the feast of 40s it would be I will survive because life after soccer, right? What are you gonna do? What are you gonna do? And then so simply the best is the first part of it. Then I will survive and you find your way. And I think that I was lucky enough to find my way. I had, you know, obviously, you know, we grew up very similar, great parents, great role models and they were always there for me. I found the right partner, married, kids. So I think the I will survive. And the latest one, I haven't found a song yet, Andrew, for the last part of my chapter, do you know what? I do have one. What's that song? Is it just happy? [00:07:40] Speaker B: You know, like, oh, if it's what I'm thinking of, it's just. [00:07:45] Speaker A: I think it's the song. It's just happy and then like I'm happy. I'm really, really happy where I am in life and I look forward to where I will be in five years. So I'm happy. So I had. All right, I know it's a long way of answering it. I have three. [00:08:00] Speaker B: No, I love it. [00:08:01] Speaker A: I am simply the best. Then it's I will survive. And now I'm just happier. I'm happy. [00:08:07] Speaker B: I love that you did it that way. I love that you gave three different parallels. Most people would have probably give one answer, but I love that you did it in a. In a three stage thing. So I just love that. Thank you so much for, for, for sharing that with us and, and having a little bit of fun. So to get us started, granted, I know you kind of talked a little bit about yourself there, but I'd like to go a little bit more in depth. Who are you and what really drives you to do the work that you're doing right now? [00:08:33] Speaker A: Well, again, it's who I am today. I'm a sporting director at a soccer local soccer club and soccer point player. So in Montreal we have 256 clubs in the province and I run one of those soccer clubs. I have a, you know, sort of a partner beside me, director general and Lisa Artoso. And we are together, a pretty good dynamic team. That's what I do today. I'm also the voice of the CF Montreal or the Impact. I've done that since 2000. So this will be my 26th year being the voice of the Impact on the radio. I'm also coaching currently at John Abbott College, the school where we, if you were a West Islander. You know it well. It's changed a little bit, the dynamics of what students are going there now and the different programs. But that's what I am today. Going back what we talked about, just sort of, I simply the best. I played professional soccer for 13 years with the FC Supra. Then I went into the Montreal Impact. I played for Buffalo. I played for Virginia. I was also part of the national program for eight years, sort of. I was told I had a career ending injury. I refused it. I said, no, thank you, I don't want the career ending. And that was in 95. I ended up playing five more years and then retiring on my own terms. So I've done a lot and we spoke a little bit about. I'm one of the few and I, I count myself really lucky that not only had a little bit of a career here in North America, but I've also had playing wise, but I've also had a career in the game of soccer outside of the pitch, which is, is something that I didn't expect I was going to get into. But Andrew, I have to say, I do enjoy that side of the game, which I didn't really think I would. So that's a little bit about who I am today and who I was. [00:10:23] Speaker B: So, Grant, and I love the fact that you, you, you took the parallel, yet you, you had your playing career. And a lot of people do that. A lot of players, a lot of professional players, they do that. They, they, they, they play, they end their career and then they try to figure out what they're going to do, and a lot of them end up coaching or whatever. I mean, we, as people know, I'm a huge Montreal Canadiens fan. Growing up in Montreal, I'm out living out west in Western Canada, but I am a huge Montreal Canadian fan. I bleed red and white. But, but. And the Canadiens coach was a past player and now he's the head coach. And so a lot of people do that. And what I do love about the fact that you did that is because of. And we'll get into this conversation as we go, but the leadership aspect, you learned a lot of leadership throughout your career, and what you learned, you're trying to relay that to all the players and the organizations and the teams that are under you to make sure that you were building not just good players, but good leaders as well. [00:11:22] Speaker A: Yeah, I think you have to. I think it's part of the. I was lucky when I played. I had, I had some great mentors, and I don't think we use the word mentor enough when we're talking about youngsters and we're talking about businesses, we're talking about soccer. Like, I think there is a lot that can be learned for someone who's been there, done that. And I don't think we use mentors enough in today's society. Society where when I played, I had two Tessa Katsukas and Nick Albanis. The late Nick Albanis was. Was. They were mentors. And they actually said, took me aside and they said, this is what you need to do to be successful. And I followed that plan. And if I didn't have those mentors, I didn't have a plan. I would not have been the player that I ended up being. I wouldn't have been the person, I think, because it wasn't just on the field. They. They told me how to be a professional off the field, what to do, what you could get away with sort of and still be okay. Like, there is fun to be had, but when it came to doing the job, you had to do it. You had to dedicate yourself. So I was lucky with those things. And I think that, again, going back to the word mentor, I think that's a huge part of what I try to do. At the club I'm in right now, there's some young guys that are trying to make careers in coaching. As you said, Andrew, a lot of players want to. Everyone dreams about coaching. Problem is, once you tell them you're hired to be fired, that's the. That's the nature of a coach, right? So unless your name is Sir Alex Ferguson, where you. You can go out on your own terms, everyone gets fired at one point, and you have to be prepared for that. And that's sort of. And then it's about negotiating the different aspects of the different jobs that are required to be done, whether it's on a soccer field, as a coach, getting things organized, as a coaching staff, or part of an administration team, which we are doing right now. What I do right now at Soccer Point, Claire, there are ways of dealing with people and negotiating and swimming through those waters that I enjoy doing right now with those people under me at Soccer Point, Claire. [00:13:24] Speaker B: So, Grant, in sports, we. We often talk about championship culture. What does it really mean and how does it translate into leadership in the workplace in your mind? [00:13:34] Speaker A: Well, things that, you know, if you ask me, Andrew, what do I miss most about playing? Go ahead, ask me what I miss most about playing. [00:13:40] Speaker B: What do you miss most about playing? [00:13:41] Speaker A: I miss the culture that the playing and that culture starts in the dressing room and it's, it's amazing how you can have people from different backgrounds, different educations, different beliefs, but at the end of the day, they're all in the room with one common goal and that's to Vic. That's to win a game. You know, I think maybe in, in youth sports it's, it's a little bit taboo, the word win all the time. Growing up, you and I were both in a. In a world where winning was everything. It is, it was, it was, it wasn't part of the game. It was. You played a sport to win. Now you played a sport to participate, to be part of something. I get that and I understand that now that I have kids of my own, I understand that a little bit. But I still think that there's that when I was playing, when you were playing, when we were growing up, that win at all cost element changed how we approached things. It was like it was everything. Winning was part of it. And if you, you won and you didn't play well, okay. But we got the winning part down. Right. So I think that what I liked about like, you know you talk about championship culture is, is that is about everyone pulling in the same direction. It's about teamwork, it's about having a plan, coaches having a plan. This is what we're going to do. Every single person has a role in that plan. It's not just a mix match. Throw it together and think there's always has a plan as everyone has a role. It's a defined role. This is what I want you to do. This is how I want to do it. You're prepared, your practice, your tactics and all that. It's all about an end result. And I think businesses are very similar to that. Where you have an end result is people like businesses. You go into business because either you're selling a product or a service, but you're there to make money. At the end of the day, there has to be something there like we had where we could talk about it. People, authors, they write books and everyone says just write the book because you want to write it. That's fantastic. But the reality is you write the book because you want other people to read it. So then you would get money for something that you are proud of. Right? You know what I mean? There's so, there's so there has to be an end goal. And, and I think that when you look at the championship cultures that are put in place by sports right now, it's that it's Everyone is accountable. That's another word that I know. We. It's one of the questions that your discussions that we're going to get into accountability, everyone with a defined role. And I think that there's nothing wrong with being proud and trying to succeed. I do know that I've changed and I've mellowed over the years. Andrew. I used to be a win at all costs. I understand everybody. But I also do believe that you do your best at all times to be successful. And if someone is better than you, at the end of the day, you tip your hat and you say, all right, that was well deserved. I gave everything, and it just wasn't my day to go. And I'm good with that. So I think the championship culture is. That is about understanding what you're doing, everyone pulling in the same direction, and everyone looking to be part of something that's bigger and better. So I don't know if that answers your question 100%. [00:16:48] Speaker B: It sure does. It's making me think, as you're talking is the communication aspect. So you were saying to me how you. What you miss most was the dressing room. And that is the part that I enjoyed as well, because especially, you know, as a kid, you're getting. You're getting ready to. You're getting dressed, hockey, putting your equipment on, you're chatting with the guys. There's music in. In the background. You're listening to music as you're getting ready. So same thing with. On the soccer field, you're getting ready, you know, on the sideline, and you're chatting with guys and that. And, you know, oh, where we're gonna get, what we're gonna do after, or whatever type thing, and let's win this game. So that communication factor was. Was huge. And one of the reasons why I wanted to have this conversation with you, Grant, is to show the parallel, because I do believe in today's world, the communication factor is missing, and there's a missing link between leaders and their individual contributors. There's a lack of communication there. And I wanted to talk about this because I wanted to show the parallel of sports is talking about leadership more and more today than ever before. And. And I think it's because there is that communication factor. You're hearing guys talking about their teammate. I love this guy. I admire this guy. This guy is my role model. This guy motivates me. But in a lot of aspects or a lot of work life situations, you don't hear that about somebody talking about another coworker or a Leader saying you still hear, but not as much as I would like is where I'm going. [00:18:25] Speaker A: Yeah, I think what I could tell, I can sort of look at it from the player side. You always talk about coaches that people want to play for and the players say, he's a player's coach. And a player's coach is someone that is honest, who is transparent, who is, who is forthright with your strengths and your weaknesses, who's willing to help you. That's something that coaches like. Players say, I want to play for that coach that's also the leader in an office. That someone says, I want to work for this person. You're, you know, you're in trouble when someone clocks in at set time and someone clocks out at that time. [00:18:57] Speaker B: Right. [00:18:57] Speaker A: And then they don't want to hear it afterwards. You know that there's a problem there because like. And again, I don't condone people. Like if you were, if you're 40 hours, you get paid for 40 hours. I understand. But it's when you know you have the right culture is when you are required and you say to someone, hey, can you help me with this? And they say, absolutely. Not a problem whatsoever. [00:19:17] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. [00:19:19] Speaker A: That's. Then you know that the culture is in the winning is the right mentality. It's sort of, it's the open minded, open mind versus a closed mind. Right. Sort of. You're, you're looking at the old leaders and you know, we look at hockey. Going back to hockey for you, John Tortorello, he's much more of a dictator, sort of. He goes in, this is what we're going to do, this is how we're going to do it. And those, as you can see, you bounce around a little bit. Those are good to fix a situation that has gotten out of control. But there's no lasting. That's not a sustainable approach, especially in today's day and age and with the generation that are coming through now. So I think that when you're looking at leaders, you're looking at someone who. There's different ways of leading. You could be a quiet leader, you could be a charismatic leader, you could be a, you know, lead from the front, show people how it's going to be. You could be a rah rah person that gets everyone. There's a whole bunch of different ways and there's no right or wrong. [00:20:11] Speaker B: Right. [00:20:11] Speaker A: But it's just someone who is transparent, someone who's honest, someone who's hard working, someone who is loyal is another word that I'd really, like these days is someone. Someone who's loyal. And those are the type of people I want to be around, and those are the type of people I think want to be around. Like, people. [00:20:31] Speaker B: Absolutely. So, yes, you did talk about accountability. So let's. Let's dig into this a little bit deeper here, Grant. What. What can business. So we talked a little bit about it, so let's come up with a solution here. What can business leaders learn from how sports teams approach accountability? [00:20:48] Speaker A: Well, here, at the end of the day, everything stops from the top and rolls downwards. A ball doesn't roll up, it rolls down. Right. So the accountability, ultimately. And if I'll take soccer boy, Claire, if anything goes wrong on the technical side of things, the soccer side, that's me. It's me. Whether it was me that did it, I'm accountable for everything on that side of it. So I know I go into the governing board and something went wrong, and I know who it was. It was maybe beyond my control. But at the end of the day, that's my team. That's my side of the club that I must be taking. And so anything that happens there, positive or negative, I take accountability, I'm accountable for it. So that's. The buck stops there. Right? Accountability is a little trickier today than I think it was in the past. Like, I think now it's a generation of, oh, not me. That's not my job. Right. And I go, I understand that. But again, if you're. If you're building the right culture in a team or in a. On a. In an office job setting or any sort of workplace, then you want people to say, hey, you know what? Hands up. And I think that accountability is not a bad thing, Andrew. I think that people look at it negative. Oh, something went wrong. Oh, my God, I can't put my hand up because I screwed up, and I don't want to be the one picked out. But for me, accountability is. If it. Say it went well, put your hand up, I want to know. Or if something went bad, all right, that's a learning opportunity. It is not like, yes, okay, something went wrong. If we were all perfect, then this would be a totally different world. And it's not like. It's not that at all. So I think it's not a taboo word. It's not a. Accountability is not excuses. I don't want to hear excuses. Excuses. I want to say, all right, I was wrong. I put my hand up. All right, how do we fix it? How do we learn from this? How do we not make the same mistake moving forward? And if you have people in your organization that are willing to do that, then you're on the right track. I think that's. Those are the type of people, obviously, if the same person makes mistake, the same mistake over and over and over, there's. There's no real learning there. That's a different aspect of it. But accountability is someone who you've given a child, and if it good, put your hand up. If it's bad, put your hand up. And there's nothing wrong with, like, you're failing at something as long as you learn from it and you are willing to not give excuses. Mistakes happen, but you just learn and you. It's a. It's an opportunity to grow. And I think that's what I like about accountability and being around people that do say, hey, that was me. And at the end of the day, I can live with that, because if I know a team, one of my team members did that, and I have to answer to the higher ups, which I hate doing, but I end up doing it anyway. So I. But if I go in there and I say, listen, this is what happened. This is it. And I'm not telling you who I'm saying, it stops with me. This is it. I'm going to fix it and move on and take that sort of responsibility with the governing board. I'm good with that. It's when I walk into the governing board meetings and someone says, hey, did you know about this? And I went, sorry, I don't really understand what you're saying, because I haven't heard that then I know that someone hasn't put their hand up and hasn't been accountable. And then I get upset with it because nothing wrong, nothing worse than being blindsided. But again, the accountability for me is. Is an opportunity. [00:23:53] Speaker B: It absolutely is an opportunity. And you can correct me if I'm wrong, but when you took over as the. The board of directors or sporting director for Point Soccer Point Claire, there was somebody else that was there. And I'm a firm believer that you, when you make mistakes, you're actually creating creativity. So when you took over, I'm sure there were things that you saw that was happening that you wanted to change, but people were kind of like, well, I don't know. We've been doing it for this way for so long. Do we want. Do we really want to change that? So I'm sure that you had a little bit of pushback from people, so you had to actually prove yourself as a Leader. Yeah. [00:24:36] Speaker A: Most of the time when you step into a role is because the person before you either was let go or didn't do a good job. You know, that's generally the thing. I was lucky enough that I stepped into this role in Point Claire as a sporting director. The guy before me was excellent. It was just a choice on his side to do something different. So he was very good administratively, so he took care of. So he helped get the club that way. I was brought in to really because of my soccer background, because of the. Just sort of who I knew what I wanted to like. We sat down and we said, okay, what do we want to. Where do we see the club? And in five years. And I had a vision and they. They really enjoyed that. So I was lucky enough not to come in and say, I'm going to have to fix this, this, this, this, this. Yes, There were some. If anyone knows the Canadian soccer in the last five years, it's changed. It's revamped to the grassroots level. It's more structured, it's more organized across the entire country. So we have to deal with that. [00:25:30] Speaker B: Right. [00:25:30] Speaker A: But as. So that was great for me to come in with the new programs and. And such. And I think that we had to change the culture a little bit because a lot of the culture of the soccer world had gone away from being ultra competitive to. The pendulum swung so far the other way. And then the reality is it's got to be somewhere in the middle part of your club is going to be ultra competitive in the highest level. And you. You're striving to be that superstar athlete and get to the professional ranks, national ranks. It's a dream. But you have to have that side of the game, and then you have to have the other side of the game, which is recreational fun, enjoyment of it, playing, you know, soccer for life. So I was lucky enough that we had to restructure things in place. And it was nice because I did. Andrew. I did have the opportunity to say, this is what I want from this side. This is what we could do on this side. And it's a work in progress. And the one thing I do, you know, one thing I find it's super fun is I could be working on something. And then another thing, emergency comes up. And so, you know, my wife says I'm ADHD anyway, so working on multiple tasks and being pulled all over the place is fun for me. It's not the other way around. I don't get, you know, flustered or. I like having the flexibility of things. So I think that it's. It's great that I did take over someone who was structured. I brought a little bit more of the soccer culture, like we talked about, the winning culture, a little bit more into the club, not taking away the special community feel that we had. And I also think that, like, I'm. I'm lucky that we're. I'm in an environment again when we talked about happy. I'm in an environment that a work family balance is very important to the people at the club, and it's very important to myself. And, and I think that this is like the, the synergy that we have between myself and the club is, has been really great so far. [00:27:23] Speaker B: Amazing. So how do, how does, how does embracing diversity make teams stronger? And what can business leaders learn from that when building inclusive workplaces? [00:27:34] Speaker A: Again, I talk about when I played in the room. I had guys from different walks of life. And to be honest with you, we didn't really see eye to eye on certain things. But at the end of the day, we knew that on a Saturday or Sunday when it's game day, that we put all of that behind us and off we go and we're all, there's a common goal. And that goal was we were going to win. We might not like each other on Monday morning. And it happened, Andrew, there was a couple of guys that didn't like each other in the room, but on Saturday, Sunday games day, they would die for each other, and then on Monday they try to kill each other. So it was, it was a real strange dynamic for me in, like, I've moved away from that, but I like the. I really enjoy going into a room, sitting down with people and then hearing the different perspectives, hearing the different ways of approaching things, hearing, you know, opinions that might be. I didn't think that. I thought that was great. I think the worst thing you can possibly do in a locker room or in a business boardroom is have someone that says, oh yes, that's good. Oh yes, that's good. And they don't give their own opinion. They don't give any different ways of looking at things. So when you look at diversity and changing, I think that everyone coming from different cultural backgrounds, different religious backgrounds, ethnic backgrounds, I think different walks of life, they bring a different perspective that if you really take the time to listen, you might not agree with them, but it might change certain things about how you approach a problem, how you approach, how you come up with a solution, which, to be honest with you, I didn't really Understand as a young guy, because it was my way or the highway. And as you get older, you realize, okay, I don't really agree with everything that person is saying, but there's some good aspects that I think that we could use in this. And how do we do this? Okay, we'll do that. So I think that when you talk about diversity is the more diverse and the more different things you get. You get ideas, you get creativity, you get production, and then ultimately goes back to accountability, because at my job, the buck stops with me. So we can sit in a room and we can have all these amazing ideas, but at the end of the day, you've still got to action those ideas. And I think that. But I really enjoy. And it's funny, I have just a. I have an. A board member. We go toe to toe in meetings. I mean, toe to toe Andrew. And at the end, she called me the first day, and she's like, grant, I'm so sorry. I didn't want to do. Don't you ever apologize for that. That's what makes this club strong, is different opinions, different focuses. We might not agree, but at the end of the day, this is not me versus you. This is, how do we make this better and moving forward, how do we do that? I go, don't you dare apologize. Because if you're. If once you start apologizing, then it's this. This dynamic has changed again. She like. She was like, oh. And I'm like, I do not look at you any different on the street. I like, soon as we walk out the door. And that was a good thing about playing career, is you had to really leave everything on the field. And once you walked into the. You know, you changed in your civilian clothes. That was it. You had to move on from that. It took me a long time to get that mindset because I used to carry things with me all the way, and people would be upset for days after if I. If I. We lost or anything. But I think that. I think it's important that you have different approaches, different perspectives, because that just makes your end product that much better. [00:31:05] Speaker B: And, Grant, I love the fact that you said that to them, because when we talk about stuff like imposter syndrome, you wouldn't want this person to not speak up anymore because of the fact that you didn't agree with them. You wouldn't want them to shy away. [00:31:20] Speaker A: Never. [00:31:21] Speaker B: You mentioned creativity. So as a leader, you're. You're allowing them to be creative. You're not, like you said, you're not Going to agree with everything that they say, which is normal. But you want them to continue to speak their mind and come up with ideas, because that's. That's ultra important. [00:31:37] Speaker A: Yeah. And for me, I like Andrew again, who I was comes out every once in a while about the competitive side. I guess everyone should have the same thing. You must believe in yourself, be above anything else. And I believe that my ideas are good ideas, but I see it from my eyes. I see it from my point of view. [00:31:57] Speaker B: And. [00:31:58] Speaker A: And just to give you an analogy, I have a daughter that's playing in the States and she's a soccer player. She's on a scholarship. She's in prep school. She's now going to go to university. I stopped coaching her and she's like, don't stop coaching me. I like, I need to. I need you to coach me to be at the. To get to the professional ranks. I said, it's enough now. I don't need you to play the game how I played it. I need you to figure out how to play the game from different coaches and you create your own style. And so she's like, I go, I'll always be your dad. I'll always be your number one fan. I'll always be your number one critic. I will be the guy that'll tell you the truth if you played good or played bad. But I need you to learn the game for yourself. I need you to learn from different coaches, Take the pieces that you like, keep them, take the things you don't like, get rid of them, and become your own person and your own player. So I don't believe that I could do that, Andrew, with my own kid, and then go into a boardroom and say, you must do what I do. I think that. So I. And I. And it was. And I remember she was like, I guess I sort of came in with a little bit of a. People thinking of who I was and, you know, a little bit arrogant and stuff. And I'm not that I was really honest with her. And I said, don't you dare stop. Because if you stop pushing for that with your ideas and your understanding and not just her, everybody that's on the board, like when we sort of had this, that's what. Once you start discussions, once you start that creativity, once you come from different perspectives, now you are looking at the entire picture and not just a snapshot, you're looking at the whole thing. And I think that that's very, very important. I do it with my own kids and I try to Bring that into the office and to that walk of life. And again, Andrew, it doesn't always work out, but we do our best. And at the end of the day, I think that we're a better place and we're a better organization because of the diversity and the different thought processes that come into the meetings. [00:33:57] Speaker B: Grant, before we wrap up here, what's one key takeaway that you think you'd like our listeners to gather or take away from this episode? [00:34:05] Speaker A: Well, we've covered a lot. [00:34:06] Speaker B: If you have more than one, that's great, too. [00:34:08] Speaker A: No, no, no. I'm not going to go through different aspects of my life. I already did that to you. I'm not going to go down there. And you put me on the spot because, because I'm not a real music guy. But I thought, hey, I did all right in those, that music question. I also think, I just thought, I thought about, okay, what would I say to somebody if I was to give it Just sort of, if someone came to me and says, what would I like? What do I do? I think the first thing is I think you must. Sorry, let me go back. Don't overreact. What that means to me is let the dust settle. When things like when you overreact on something, then you are now making a rash decision yourself. And sometimes that decision is worse than the initial mistake. So don't overreact. Breathe. You know, in soccer we, you know, coaching now is the 24 hour rule is don't approach the coach after a game or anything. 24 hours. Because what you're going to say now might not be after reflecting what you would have said later on. So for me, it's really about don't overreact, Let the dust settle, let time go through, rethink things, and then make a decision. Every rash decision generally is a bad decision because now you're reacting to something. And I think that it's much better and more powerful to act than react. So I think that for me, if anyone had any advice, I would say, I'd say, do you know what? For acting, Breathe. Don't overreact. Let the dust settle. Rash decisions are sometimes worse than the initial problem. Wait, and then make a decision. [00:35:43] Speaker B: I love that, Grant. [00:35:44] Speaker A: That was pretty Zen. [00:35:45] Speaker B: It was. And I was. [00:35:47] Speaker A: I'm going to go pretty. That's pretty Zen for all the spot of the moment. I'm going to write this one down for myself. [00:35:54] Speaker B: That's pretty good, actually. And that's actually a rule that I have for myself. Whatever it is, if it's something not with your wife. Something. [00:36:01] Speaker A: Well, oh, I overreact all the time. That's the one place we're allowed to do it. [00:36:08] Speaker B: Well, my wife always says to me that I'm the. I'm the. I'm the. The thinker in situations. I'm like the. I'm the guy that's like, okay, let's. Let's. Let's analyze this a little bit, and let's try to figure this out before we. Before we do something. She'll make a decision, and then she will just go, okay, that's what I want to do. But then I'll be the one like, okay, well, let's, you know, can we just look at it a little bit this way? And then she's like, yeah, you're right. Let's. Let's look at it that way. So. And. And that's a good way to do it. [00:36:40] Speaker A: It's not easy. [00:36:41] Speaker B: It's. But it's not easy. Sometimes you just want to go, you know, and fly off the handle. And everyone's been there. I've been there. [00:36:47] Speaker A: Andrew, there's nothing better than being right. Yeah, we all love to be right. [00:36:53] Speaker B: Oh, for sure. We do. [00:36:54] Speaker A: Right? And I go, but sometimes, you know, sometimes it really does happen that both of you are right. [00:36:59] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. [00:37:00] Speaker A: And just, you're looking at it differently. Right. And then. So again, don't. Don't overreact. Let the dust settle and don't make any rash decisions. Think things through and look at all the options and then pick the one that you feel is the best. [00:37:14] Speaker B: Grant, I want to take the time to thank you for coming on today. It's just been a little bit of a reminiscing of the old days. And I know you talk about who you were and. And now you. Who you are now, and it's just. [00:37:25] Speaker A: I was way nicer back. I was so cool. [00:37:28] Speaker B: You work, so I'll tell. [00:37:30] Speaker A: Now I'm just an old guy. [00:37:32] Speaker B: You were. You were. You were cool back then, and you're still cool now. You still have the. The similar personality, the fun guy, the outgoing guy, and I think that's probably why we got along over the years. And. And so it's just been a pleasure to. To have this conversation with you. So thank you very much for. For taking the time for me today, and it's really appreciated. [00:37:53] Speaker A: Hey, listen, I appreciate coming on. I appreciate you having me on. I apologize for not being on earlier. I just. I didn't really think that I had much to say, but apparently that's not true because I have a lot to say on every single subject. You did when it comes to these things. Yeah. So I listen. I think it's great. I wish you the success moving forward. If you ever need anyone to fill space or time, I am always available for you. [00:38:18] Speaker B: I would love it. I love it. So on behalf of myself and my guest today, Grant, I'd like to take the time to thank you all for listening today and until next time, be safe everyone. And remember that if we all work together, we can accomplish anything. [00:38:32] Speaker A: You have been listening to let's Be Diverse with Andrew Stout. To stay up to date with future content, hit Subscribe.