Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Opinions expressed in this episode are personal. They do not necessarily reflect the views of this streaming platform.
[00:00:08] Speaker B: Good day, everyone, and welcome to another edition of let's Be Diverse. I am your host, Andrew Stout. This episode is dedicated to all my loved ones who supported me through this journey. Those who have left us will always be in our hearts and will never be forgotten. Today our topic is negotiation skills. And I think negotiations go in different realms. Whether it's sales, whether it's in business, whether it's in HR leadership, we're always negotiating something. So I thought this would be an interesting topic. And my guest today is Jen Conkey. Welcome to the show, Jen. We are so pleased to have you on today.
[00:00:44] Speaker C: Oh, thank you for having me, Andrew. It's awesome to be here.
[00:00:47] Speaker B: It's a pleasure to have you. How are things with you, Jen? What's going on? What's new? Give us the tea, give us the deets. What's happening?
[00:00:55] Speaker C: I love it. Spill the tea. Life is good. Life is really good. I a lot of really good things are happening in my world. Real estate is how I make my money. I've been a real estate investor for over 22 years and it has given me the opportunity to have location, time and financial freedom so that I can do things that I'm really passionate about, which is helping people. So because real estate's been really good to me for over two decades, I have a small group of On1 clients, entrepreneurs that are really successful and I am helping them go to the next level and it's really, really rewarding for me. So that's what's new in my world right now.
[00:01:33] Speaker B: I just love that speaking to you and having the opportunity to have several conversations with you, I could definitely see that you have that passion for helping people. I could just tell. So I could definitely see how good you'd be at that. And I think when you're working with people one on one, you definitely have the passion, but you definitely have to have compassion as because you could just kind of, anybody could just kind of say do this, do that, do that. But you have to have that compassion and care for that individual to help them to succeed. Because if not, you're just kind of just throwing ideas and stuff at them, right?
[00:02:12] Speaker C: Pretty much, yeah. Being able. When somebody wants to accomplish a goal, usually what happens is fear will set in. So if you're not compassionate but also nudging them, they'll stay stuck in that fear.
[00:02:26] Speaker B: And you're coming from a place where you have been there before, so you're Kind of talking about the things that you went through and continue to go through and kind of guiding them as well. So storytelling is kind of huge in that, that as well, I imagine, because you're kind of telling things of how, what you did.
[00:02:45] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:02:46] Speaker B: And how you got there. So I, I love it. I love it. Well, Jen, glad to hear that things are going well and I love that you're broadening your horizons and find, you know, continuing to find the things that you're passionate to do. I, I just love that.
Before we begin, I always have a fun, thought provoking question for my guest to get things going. Are you ready for yours?
[00:03:10] Speaker C: Sure.
[00:03:12] Speaker B: Your question today is who, who is the funniest person that you know and why do you consider them the funniest?
[00:03:18] Speaker C: That would have to be my wife because she's hilarious.
She does the most random things and she's silly and she's really good at pattern interrupting. So if you're in the middle of a, a big emotion, whether it be, you know, happiness, distraction, sadness, whatever it might be, she knows the exact way to get your attention and stop that pattern in a humorous way. But probably the thing that makes me laugh the hardest around her is that she knows she's funny and she laughs so hard that she makes herself cry, which I find extremely entertaining.
[00:03:54] Speaker B: Yeah, that is hilarious too. And there's nothing like a good, there's, for me, there's nothing like a good laugh. Yeah, yeah. I try to have at least one of those a day, so I'm always laughing. But I think it's important to have just one of those gut busting laughs per day where your, the tears are just rolling down your face and you can't seem to stop laughing because the littlest thing will get you laughing again. So I just, I love that about her and I love that you, that you, that you love that about her and recognize that she, she's good at that. So great, great story.
[00:04:33] Speaker C: Thanks.
[00:04:34] Speaker B: So why don't we start off with you telling us about you yourself and of course your why.
[00:04:41] Speaker C: Sure. So I'm an NLP master practitioner, I'm a hypnotherapist. But most of all I'm a business strategist. I, I help people break down their mental barriers. I recondition their mindset for the success that they want in achieving peak performance. And I do it by identifying what their limiting beliefs are that have a chokehold on them so that they could smash through those self implodes like glass ceilings that they have on themselves and unleash their identity. And I know that's all bunch of fancy words that just say, I take people who are stuck, want to succeed, don't know why they're in their own way. And I show them the mirror on how they're in their own way. And then we smash through and get it all, get it all underway. And the reason why I do that is I just, I've been there. I. I've had those glass ceilings where I had these limitations I put on myself and I couldn't quite. I kept bumping up against that glass ceiling and I couldn't quite see the ways that I was in my own way through my beliefs and what I was doing. Because what you believe you think about and what you think about creates an emotion. And the emotion creates whether you're going to take action or not. And your action, whether you take it or not, determines your results. So my, my superpower is in, in that little pipeline of how that chain reaction happens is identifying the root belief that's causing the chain to misfire, then rewiring it for them.
And the reason why I love to do that is I love to watch people actually transform and get results. It just brings me great joy.
[00:06:04] Speaker B: I could definitely see that. I think anything or anytime you see somebody take advice or somebody that you work with and they succeed. I mean, it's even like in, in the business world, in the workforce, when you're working with somebody and you. If you're a leader and you have somebody working under you and then they succeed and then they become a leader, there's nothing better than to say, hey, I work with that person and look where they are. And I agree. There's just such a amazing feeling about that. I'm with you on that.
[00:06:38] Speaker C: Yes, absolutely.
[00:06:41] Speaker B: So why don't we get into the nut and bolts of this conversation here?
What does a successful negotiation look like?
[00:06:51] Speaker C: Oh, sure. Yeah, I love this. We're just going to dive right in. So to me, a successful negotiation is the result of all parties feeling like they've achieved their mutual beneficial agreement together. So region a compromise so that everybody's key interests are touched on. And it doesn't necessarily that everybody mean like gets what they want exactly, but rather like the agreement is satisfactory and it's sustainable for both sides.
[00:07:20] Speaker B: And when you say like a compromise when you're.
You find like in certain situations that compromise, like you said, we don't always get what we want.
Is it. You know, I guess the feeling is still real good, even though so because there is a, A Fine. A finality to it.
[00:07:40] Speaker C: Yeah, it's, it's, the feeling is good something most of the time. But sometimes negotiations, they can become very uncomfortable because a lot, for a lot of reasons that you know, I'm sure I'll talk about in a little bit. But the feeling is that okay, I didn't get everything I wanted, but I got was most important to me the ones that were everybody should have some no go go. You know, your non negotiables when you're entering into a situation. These are the non negotiables, these are the things I'm not willing to compromise on. And these are the fluffy things that if they had to go, I wouldn't, it wouldn't be the end of the world for me, but I prefer to have them. But if I had to let them go and you know, make a concession here, that's okay and I'll still feel okay about it. And having that list predetermined before you even go in so that you know how to navigate the conversation.
[00:08:28] Speaker B: So what are the skills needed to be an effective or be effective at negotiating?
[00:08:35] Speaker C: Well, I mean when you're negotiating, the, the very top skill that you need to have is to be an effective communicator. And in order to be an effective communicator, the, the best skill to have is active listening. Because most people will listen to respond instead of listening to understand. And when you listen to understand their needs, concerns and their, their primary driving force or motivation, listening to that information is going to help you understand what is their non negotiable and what is the fluff that they probably wouldn't mind, you know, letting go of. And but the thing is that the next skill that builds on that besides active listening is emotional intelligence. And that's managing your emotions going into this, this interaction, understanding that you're probably not going to get everything you want. But you have your non negotiables and you have the things that you're willing to make compromises on. And having the sound judgment to actively listen to what they want and what's driving them and while still holding solid and grounded in your own. So you have the ability to clearly articulate your needs. And when you're doing that, you're showing up clear in your body with your emotions, you're listening actively, you're communicating your needs. It's very easy to then problem solve and figure out, okay, this is what I want, this is what they want, what's the bridge? But it takes patience. So that's probably skill number Five patience in that conversation and not rushing into try and hurry up and get rid of the awkwardness of a negotiation rushing into it. It could cause more problems. You need to have patience and be willing to sit back and let silence happen a little bit. And when you're doing that because you're actively listening and you're understanding their needs. Now you have what I the sixth one, persuasion. And when you have the persuasion plus I think the seventh skill would be adaptability. You've got to be adaptable and be flexible in adjusting your strategy and how you're presenting it during that negotiation. So I like to think of my non negotiable list and the list that I'm willing to make some concessions or some compromises. Listening to what their biggest need is and what their biggest motivation is and then knowing where I stand and what's my roadmap so that I can navigate that conversation. I'll be very adaptable with my emotional intelligence going into it thinking okay, I'm willing to let this go, but this one right here, I it has to be this. And also being okay with if the negotiation isn't going your way and you can't find a happy medium, being okay to just release and let it go.
That's a big one.
[00:11:10] Speaker B: Yeah. So I love the direction that you went on as far as the communicating. I think I always talk and people I've said this numerous times that I think it's important when you're in any situation including leader or negotiating or what have you needing to figure out when you're needing to listen to give feedback or listening what I call with pause. So getting the information of the, you know, of the other person. So I, you know, when you're talking about negotiating, when you're, you're giving your feedback, you're listening to understand what the other person wants. Then you are giving your thoughts on that. But then you're also listening to understand I know what I want, but I want to understand what the other person wants so we can get this thing settled. Because when we're managing emotions like you said, we, we're going in and we're upset or we're, we might be a little frustrated in some cases. So I think we can't. We have to kind of go in with the mindset that okay, let's get this thing done. When we're going in angry, it's never gonna. Nothing's ever going to get settled. So we need to go in with a calm demeanor to make sure that we are both in the Same mindset and that we are both thinking the same way and that so that we can get us a resolution to the situation. And the p. And patience, too, I love as well. I'm one that doesn't have a lot of patience.
[00:12:48] Speaker C: I don't know a lot of people that do. Yeah, patience is. It's hard. I think everybody's on that journey of learning patience.
[00:12:55] Speaker B: Yeah, it's. It's something that you.
I think that I agree with you. That people deal with on a regular basis, and it can be in different circumstances. Patience in negotiating that you want to get this done. And a lot of people, like you said, you're dealing with people helping them to grow their businesses. I'm. I know that there's a lot of people you probably deal with who are not patient because they want to be. They're at 50, and they want to be at a hundred, like the next day, but they don't understand that there's a process to. From 50 to get to 60, to get to 70. Do it every day to get to that hundred. And some people are like that. And we all feel like that. Some days. I feel like that too. I would love to be at 100, 150 tomorrow, but I know that it's at one step or one foot in front of the other process to get to there.
[00:13:48] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:13:51] Speaker B: So why do you think that leaders or individual contributors struggle with negotiating?
[00:14:00] Speaker C: Oh, that's definitely. I mean, it comes down to a few things. So the first one that comes to mind is fear of conflict. A lot of folks, it's an unc. It's uncomfortable, potential awkward situation for them, so they. They avoid it because it's preventing them from confrontation or a disagreement.
And that usually stems from a lack of confidence and insecurity about their ability to go into a negotiation and perform.
And the lack of confidence is actually, if you back up a little bit, it's usually because of insufficient preparation. When you go into negotiation without preparing for it, it can lead to unfavorable outcomes, which that may have happened in the past. And that's why they lack that confidence. And then because they lack the confidence, they don't want to get into the confrontation or. Or the disagreement. And it really comes back down to emotions like making sure that we're allowing ourselves to feel what we're feeling and find mutually beneficial solutions to things, but being completely flexible on how we approach something can. It can lead to more success. So, for example, if historically I go into negotiation without any preparation and just expect to get my way I'm going to learn pretty quick the hard way. It's going to sting a little bit and then I'm going to have to sit down, go back to the drawing table on my strategy and reproach with, okay, I need to prepare this time because I didn't have a good understanding of what this person actually wanted, what was important to them. And I need to listen better, prepare better, and become more flexible in my approach on how I'm doing this. And sometimes, sometimes people, because they are, they're not confident, they fear conflict or they haven't prepared. There's sort of a power dynamic in the negotiation. So they, they show up to the negotiation already afraid and feeling like they're in a inferior position. And they're then negotiating from a place of scarcity. And when you're negotiating from a place of scarcity, you're giving up too many concessions, too much compromises happening. So that's why I say before you go into any negotiation, you've got to kind of sit back, group yourself, group your, your emotional intelligence and get grounded, have your priority list of what's important to you and what are your non negotiables and then what are you willing to compromise on? And think back to a time where you had a successful negotiation. What was present in that negotiation? What did you do well, what was missing? What, what did you not have to deal with? And then how can you apply that to this one? And that's literally how simple it can be to get prepared for it.
[00:16:39] Speaker B: So from what you're saying, what I'm gathering, which I kind of figured a lot of the situations as far as negotiation is we have to have a little bit of humility. Because you mentioned that you can go into a, a negotiation and think, oh, I'm prepared, they're probably not going to be prepared as me. So this should be easy. It should be a walk over. We should get whatever we want. So if we're going in with a little bit of humility, it's going to be a better negotiation because you're not walking in thinking we're going to walk all over this person.
[00:17:13] Speaker C: Yeah, humility does help. I think that what I'm really saying, to put a vote, a bow on it, is the problem is that most people think they shouldn't have any problems during a negotiation. They think it's going to be easy. You nailed that. That's exactly what they're thinking. And because they think it's going to be easy, they don't prepare. And when they don't prepare well, you know what that, that leads to. Okay. A lack of, what is it? What do they say failure to plan is, is failure to succeed or something along those lines? I can't remember the saying. But when you fail to plan, you're basically preparing to fail.
[00:17:51] Speaker B: And that, that easy negotiation or that negotiation that you think, because the other part, you, you know, the other party in a lot of cases could turn to anger because it's not going your way. So it could turn anger very quickly which could lead to other issues and a long time frame of non negotiating.
[00:18:18] Speaker C: Right, Agreed. Thousand percent. When, when that's happening, as those emotions start to rise up inside of you at that negotiations table, that's when you need to go and return to breath and breathing in through your nose and filling up your belly, then your chest and exhaling because breath will calm the nervous system back down. It gets you out of beta brainwave which is going to put you into fight or flight.
[00:18:40] Speaker B: Right.
[00:18:41] Speaker C: Breath will bring you back to an alpha brainwave so that you can be calm, centered, balanced and stick and stick to your strategy.
[00:18:49] Speaker B: So in your opinion Jen, what does the future of negotiation or negotiating look like?
[00:18:56] Speaker C: I mean this is going to be crazy, but I, I really do feel like it's going to go to the next level with all this AI stuff that's going on. I can see a world where people are, are going to their AI chat GPT bot saying hey, in my world it's about real estate, right? So hey, there's this apartment complex, it's in this, it's in this city, it's in this market. These are the economic conditions that are happening there. This is the selling price, this is what it's worth. These are the rents. Like how do I create my negotiation with the seller to get it at the right price and then go get the right financing for it. And I can see it spitting out a list of all the things that I might want on my non negotiables list and then asking it, okay, well now that I know what my non negotiables need to be, what should I compromise on and how do I lead with that so that it shows like I'm giving something at the beginning of the negotiation because the law of reciprocity will then have them give something back. And so it's, I can totally see it going down that path. I could see people doing that if.
[00:19:57] Speaker B: They'Re not already, they most probably are. I mean most people are using chat GPT for, for many different things. In some cases it's probably not the right reason, or they're not using it in the right ways, but they are using it for sure. And I agree that that's probably the next level. And I imagine that negotiating two is going to.
To change because I think you mentioned earlier the fear of not wine negotiation because you're not, you're not wanting it to go or you're thinking it's going to go bad because of your confidence level. I think you might find more people wanting to negotiate because of their strong feelings on certain areas and certain things. Like you said, you're in a real estate industry. Know me being in the HR leadership industry, there's more and more people who are wanting more things in life as far as their careers. So they're asking for more, so they're negotiating more. They're having more conversations with their managers, with their leaders, whether it's when they started or even in the interview stage. They're, they're trying to negotiate things or when they're being in the job offered or negotiating things right off the bat and before they even start. So that they're going into, I call it a, a safe work environment. But we want to be, we're negotiating to be in safe environment in general. I think, especially since the pandemic, I think we, our mindsets have changed on a lot of things, and we, we just want to feel safe and we want to be seen, heard, valued, and understood. And that's why we're negotiating in many ways.
[00:21:43] Speaker C: Yeah. And I think that because of the pandemic and the reach of zoom, another thing negotiations in the future is, it's going to be really important to stay on top of as globalization continues? What are some of the increasingly important cultural intelligence factors that you need when you're negotiating with somebody outside of the country or in a different demographic per se? I think that it's very important to understand what their cultural values are so that you know what motivates them and you can meet them where they're at. Because anytime you're going into a negotiation, meeting them where they're at is going to be a recipe for success. And I think that the pandemic, there's a, there's a lot of bad that happened, but there's a lot of silver lining in there. And one of them is Zoom. And now we're, we're more connected, even though it seemed like we, we weren't because we were isolated. But, you know, you're all the way in Canada. Right.
And I'm over here in Florida and We met because of online social media. I know that Canadians have a different culture than Floridians. And understanding the differences, if you and I were to. If you were selling me an apartment building, I would need to know what are some of the things that are culturally important to you in that market where you live? So that I understood when I'm coming into the negotiation. And I think that the third thing as we look at the change in negotiations towards the future is a lot of people are becoming more in tune with reading body language, listening to the tonality of somebody and being able to influence them using words that they use by identifying, are they a visual communicator, are they an auditory communicator, are they a kinesthetic communicator? And people will give those clues away by little predicate words. When they say things like, oh, I see what you did there. That's usually. They said, see, that's usually indicator that they're a visual communicator.
If they say something like, oh, I heard that, or I hear you, then they're more auditory. Or if they say, oh, yeah, I could feel what you're putting down right there, then they're probably more kinesthetic. You can listen to what people are saying and understand how they communicate. Then you shift your communication to meet them where they're at. And that also gives you a leg up in the negotiation. And I think a lot more people are becoming more aware of that. So we'll see people get into more rapport during negotiations versus getting heated and upset.
[00:24:02] Speaker B: You're bang on, on the tuning in with body language. And you mentioned, just mentioned it two seconds ago. Rapport. Rapport building is one of my core values. And I feel that that is super important in any aspect of, of life because you are not just listening to the person, but you're also checking their, their body language. And there's no better way to get to know somebody by looking at all aspects. If we're looking at one aspect of somebody, you're going to get to know them. But I myself like to look at all aspects of the individual in order to get to know them. So that when I have a conversation with them like this and people are listening, they actually hear that rapport between the two people. Because, you know, what better way to have easy listening than to hear two people who get along, understand each other, see, hear, value and understand them, you know, and their body language and their tone and their tonality, if there's nothing better than that. So I, I agree with you 100 on that one.
[00:25:11] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:25:13] Speaker B: If you could choose one word to describe yourself, Jen, what word would that be?
[00:25:20] Speaker C: Adaptable.
[00:25:22] Speaker B: I love that.
[00:25:23] Speaker C: Adaptable. Because I have the ability to see new information. First of all, what gets monitored or measured gets moved. So I'm constantly looking at new information, checking out the circumstances of a challenge. And I make it a personal mission to try and figure out how can it be done. Because I have a fundamental belief that there's always a way.
So because I have that fundamental belief that there's always a way, I will look at information and I will shift kind of like the wind.
I'm sort of like the wind, you know, I'll just adjust.
[00:25:59] Speaker B: I love that answer from I. That's a definition for me of a true leader is adopting because it's ever changing. And I've always said the minute that you are.
Because leaders for me come in different ways, shapes or forms. It's not just somebody that's head of a organization at the 18th floor of a tower.
And leaders come in different ways, shapes or forms for me. And when you are adaptable as a leader, that means that you are ever okay with the ever changing world and not just saying, oh, well, I've been doing this for 20 some odd years. I know it all. I don't need to learn anything else.
You're adopting with the time and the changes and you are learning that and understanding that times are changing, people are changing, their ideas and thoughts are changing. So you are adapting to that, which for me, like I said, is the definition of true leadership.
[00:27:02] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:27:06] Speaker B: Any final thoughts today, Jen?
[00:27:09] Speaker C: Man, I would just. I always say this, but just remember that life is 10, what happens to you, 90, how you respond and making sure that you are living in a responsive way versus a reactionary way.
That way you stay in creation in your life.
[00:27:29] Speaker B: I love that.
I just wanted to talk about Idol. I have a. You know, my call to action for this episode today is negotiating. And I. And I feel like we are. It's important for the listeners to understand that when you are negotiating, no matter what situation it is, we talked about it during the podcast today. It's important to listen to the other person's party and understand what they're, you know, not just understanding what your needs are, but listening to understand what the other person's needs are and coming in, you know, and that'll help you to become a happy medium or come into the middle of the situation. So my advice to everybody today would be to develop your listening skills to understand exactly what the. The other party is needing so that you can come to a full agreement. I want to take the time to thank you Jen for coming on today. You are an absolute amazing human. I have enjoyed connecting with you. The conversations that I've had with you were profound and inspirational for me and it is truly amazing for me to have the opportunity to have a conversation with you today on this table about this amazing topic. Hear your your words of wisdom and I know that it was inspirational for all of our listeners today. So thank you so much.
[00:28:58] Speaker C: Oh thank you for having me.
[00:29:00] Speaker B: You're very welcome. On behalf of myself and my guest today, Jen, I'd like to thank you all for listening today and until next time, be safe and remember when we all work together, we can accomplish anything.
[00:29:14] Speaker A: You have been listening to. Let's be diverse with Andrew Stout to stay up to date with future content, hit Subscribe.
