Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Opinions expressed in this episode are personal. They do not necessarily reflect the views of this streaming platform.
[00:00:08] Speaker B: Good day, everyone, and welcome to another edition of let's Be Diverse. I am your host, Andrew Stout. This episode is dedicated to all my loved ones who supported me through this journey. Those who have left us will always be on our hearts and will never be forgotten. If you're a leader and a manager a lot, one of the things that you're gonna have, you have to do or you or throughout your career is negotiate. Today we're going to be talking about the power of negotiation. And I'm so happy and thrilled, honored. I can't even think of enough words to say such an amazing guest to talk about this very topic. And I think she's the perfect guest and she knows I am a huge fan of her and I'm super honored that she's. That she's on today. Her name is Megan Shapiro. Welcome to the show, Megan. I am so happy, honored, excited, thrilled for you to be on here today.
[00:01:02] Speaker A: Wow, Andrew, what an intro. Thank you so much. I'm. I am equally excited to be here. You and I have been trying to coordinate our schedules and get this on the books for what seems like forever now. So I am very, very excited to be here with you, too. Thank you so much for having me.
[00:01:17] Speaker B: You are very welcome. How are things with you? What's going on? What's new in your world? Give me. Give us the tea to deets. Give us it all. What's going on?
[00:01:28] Speaker A: Well, I think the most exciting thing is that I just recently rolled out my series of do it like a lawyer workshops where I focus exclusively on leadership training for skills that people consider usually to be sort of like, quote unquote, lawyer skills. Right. Negotiation being one of them. So I'm working on that. I just, like I said, I just rolled that out. I've got some conferences in the books coming up here towards the tail end of the year. And then, of course, the holiday season is chaos for everybody. So I'm just buckling up for a bumpy ride to the end of 2024.
[00:02:05] Speaker B: Yeah, no kidding. I think we all are. I think it.
I did a post a few months back and it was kind of like in the theme of, like, has anybody else noticed that tonight time has gone by, like, January, February, March, April, May, June, July, August, September. Like, that's how it felt like it was. And it felt like that for me. Like, it just felt like those first three months kind of, you're in a new year, you kind of they kind of dragged, but they were okay. We're getting into it and all of a sudden it's like we're in summer and then never in fall. Like, it just. Yeah, I don't know where it went.
[00:02:42] Speaker A: Yeah, 100%.
[00:02:44] Speaker B: It was. It's crazy. So time has just flown by for me, but I'm so happy and thrilled that you were getting those.
Those conferences going. I do agree with you too, I think. And that's why I wanted to have you on today, because I think lawyers, you know, I think managers and leaders, we need to kind of get a little bit of the lawyer aspect in our. In our days, in our training, but also in our days and kind of work like that and kind of think, not that we're like, were we're being harsher or hard on people, but just to have that mentality of. Of that lawyer aspect that I think we'll. We would see that things would be a lot easier on us for sure. So I am. That's why I'm super excited about this topic here.
[00:03:31] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, me too. I think there's a lot. I think there's a lot there. People get intimidated very easily, I think, by. By the idea of these things that they think they need, like, a special skill set or special training to do, and it's just not true. People. People are better at it than they think they are. They've got more innate skill than they think they do. And I absolutely love showing them how they can tap into that.
[00:03:52] Speaker B: Awesome. So before we begin, I always have a fun, thought provoking question to ask my guests to get things going. Are you ready for yours today, Megan?
[00:04:02] Speaker A: Oh, boy. I'm ready.
[00:04:03] Speaker B: Let's.
[00:04:04] Speaker A: Let's do it.
[00:04:06] Speaker B: So your question is, if you could be any food, what type of food would you be and why?
[00:04:12] Speaker A: I would be a potato. I don't even need time to think about that. I would be a potato.
I am. I'm Irish and I've always loved potatoes. Potatoes have always been in my top five of my favorite foods. I. When I was in law school, my law school friends, who I'm still close with to this day, would totally, like, vouch for this. My lunches every day would be a baked potato and a side of French fries. It was like just nothing but potatoes. And then when I was a young lawyer, in my very first years at the firm, when it was like a grind, right? It was like, it was tough. It was hard. It was like long hours. I found this, like, old meme. This was in, like, what the early 2010s when memes were like babies. Like, it was the very first beginning of memes and it was a picture of like, it was an illustration of like a teeny, tiny little potato with the phrase that said, I'm a tiny potato and I believe in you, you can do it. And I printed it out and I set it on my desk and it's still there to this day. So I would be a potato for all those reasons.
[00:05:12] Speaker B: I love your, I love your answer and I love that there's a backdrop to it, which is, which is pretty cool. I would say I love potatoes as well. I could probably eat a baked potato probably any day of the week as well, with a little bit of butter on it. I just love potato. I love mashed potato. And that's why, you know, the holidays are coming up. I, I just love a good mashed potato, which is so good.
[00:05:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:37] Speaker B: And so I would say potatoes and pasta is probably, those are probably two huge things that I could probably eat pretty much every day. They're probably not the best for you, but I could eat them every day for sure. So I love that you were so on to that answer. You could make me look like a liar that you didn't know the question beforehand. But I know, right?
[00:06:00] Speaker A: I know. I couldn't believe fast I came up with an answer either. I was like, oh, that's so easy. And I, I promise, I promise listeners, he did not tell me this question ahead of time. He did not. I just love potatoes that much.
[00:06:14] Speaker B: I love it. So listen, let's get into the meat and bones of this here. Why don't we start off with you telling us a little about you, yourself and your why.
[00:06:24] Speaker A: Okay, so for those who, who don't know me, my name is Megan Shapiro. I am a full time practicing construction attorney in Sacramento, California in the.
And I've been practicing now for almost 15 years, representing owners, GCs, material suppliers, but primarily subcontractors. I always like to say subcontractors have my heart.
I sort of fell into practicing construction law. It wasn't what I went to law school to do. It wasn't what I thought I was going to do. When I started at the firm, it was sort of handed down to me as the newest attorney in the office of sort of like, here you do this. And as fate would have it, I sort of fell into construction law and then fell in love with construction law. And I never looked back. I went to the partners at the firm at the time and I sort of said, you know what, this does not have to be the training ground that we pass on to new attorneys. I want to sort of take ownership of this, I want to build it out, I want to develop it. And that's exactly what I did. And so now at this point, although the firm is a full service business firm, my personal practice is almost exclusively construction.
I also, I live what I preach in the sense that my husband is a superintendent for an H VAC company and I met him when he worked for one of my clients. So I truly fell in love with construction law. So, so I've been doing that since like I said, about 2012. And then about a year ago I sort of sat down and thought like, you know what, there's got to be a way that I can help more leaders and help this industry more. Since I'm only licensed in California, I couldn't do that through my law degree or my law license. And so I decided to sort of start my, my side company, my side business. And it's, it's iterated and reiterated over the last year while I've sort of been trying to find my footing, about to see what, how I can best help, right? Like how I can lend my voice. And I think I've really finally kind of nailed, nailed it down. And I've kind of zeroed in on it. And that happened at the Women in Construction conference in September here when I was invited to do a workshop and I did a workshop on strategic communication for female leaders. And I really, really enjoyed putting that workshop together. It was well attended and incredibly well received. And that was sort of the light bulb moment. I had previously done a negotiations strategy workshop for the Women in construction conference in 2022 and I liked that one as well. And so I sort of thought like, maybe this is the thing. And so I kind of soft launched it to a few select people and I got a lot of great feedback and that, that created the Do It Like a Lawyer series of workshops that I'm now focusing on. And yes, one of them is the strategic communication. One of them is on negotiation, one of them is on the powers of persuasion. And then because subcontractors have my heart, I do have one on contracts.
[00:09:24] Speaker B: So I love your story. I love how you started off and I, you know, I love the passion that you have for what you do. And I could just see it, I could hear it in your voice. And it's super awesome that you have that passion.
And, and what I love, we talked about it before we started taping today that you know, I'm seeing leaders and me, you know, being leadership, being in leadership and understanding how important leadership is, that there's always training and there's always things that we can learn to become a better leader. And the time that we say that we have learned it all, that's when we're, I feel that we're going to struggle. And I always look at different things and different thoughts of leadership, and I, you know, negotiating is, like we talked earlier is something that I kind of thought about. I have been thinking about a lot because a leader spends their day negotiating on many different aspects. And if you don't know how or if you're put into a.
A position of leadership because you were a, a genuine contributor to the company and they just like what you were doing and you, you know, when they pushed you forward, it, you know, it's, it's, it's huge.
To learn more about leadership, Megan, what does it mean to negotiate with power? And why is it so important in your mind?
[00:10:50] Speaker A: So I think for me, the power part comes into the negotiations before you ever even walk into the room. And that sort of alludes to what I was talking about a second ago, which is this idea that we all have the power to negotiate. I think so many leaders, particularly female leaders, oftentimes tend to want to delegate out that power. They think like, oh, I'm not good at it, or, oh, I haven't been trained, or somebody else might be better, or I haven't had much experience with it. And they, they are very quick to sort of hand over their power. And it's just absolutely not true. There are, there's nothing inherently special about lawyers or anybody else who negotiates for a living that makes us better at it than anybody else. I love to tell the story of. I took the negotiations and settlement seminar when I was in law school, and I remember exactly one thing from that entire course, and that was round the table.
I don't really know what that means.
Okay, round the table. I guess that means try to find common ground. But I love to tell that story because it highlights the fact that people assume lawyers negotiate all day long. We're trained in it. We must be really great at it. We must do it in a specific way. And that's all I remember from that course, and I just told it to all of your listeners, like, okay, now you've, now you've had the exact same negotiation training that lawyers have in law school. Round the table. There you go. Okay, great. So now what do you do from here? So from here, that's where you have to tap into your own innate power and have the confidence in your own ability to negotiate. There's nothing special about the approach that you take. It's all about the frameworks that you have going in and preparing to approach it in a way that sets yourself up for success. Those tools are easy to find, to utilize, to learn, and to incorporate into your own strategy. It's something that every single person has the power to do.
[00:12:47] Speaker B: I love when you say power before you come in, walk into a room. I love that because I could, you know, I know I've been in situations where I walked into a room and at first I didn't feel confident. And I noticed other people that walk into a room and they didn't feel comfortable, like, oh, my God, what am I walking into? What is this? You know, am I going to be okay here? Am I going to be able to figure this out? You're going into a meeting, you're supposed to do a presentation, you know. You know, am I confident enough that I do everything I can? Is this presentation going to be something that people are going to be interested in hearing or are they going to fall asleep? So you have to have that power in your mind and your mindset to say, hey, I can do this. I prepared. I'm ready to go. They're going to love it. They're going to enjoy it. They're going to, you know, they're going to be. And they're going to feel so rejuvenated and engaged through this whole process.
You have to have that.
You have to have that mindset as well. And I think round the table for me, when you say that is also too, that we're. If you're. I'm thinking in a meeting, you are in a negotiation when it's in a meeting room that there's. You're going around the table and getting people's thoughts and ideas on the negotiation to get. To have a finality to it and to figure it all out so that we're not walking away going, okay, well, we were here for two hours and nothing was fixed. Right. So, yeah, that's kind of what it makes me think about. I don't know if that's the right answer, but that's kind of what round the table means to me in my mind.
[00:14:25] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I think from a lawyer standpoint, they. I think what they were trying to imply with that was find common ground. So that way you can kind of like have a starting place.
But I like your answer. Better?
[00:14:39] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I mean, again, I'm looking at it, I mean, obviously I'm not a lawyer, so I am looking at it in the, you know, the, the, the, the leadership.
Everybody needs to get their input. If you're having 10 people in a room, well, then there should be 10 people's input in there.
You know, it's hard to get everybody to agree if you have that many people in a room. But if you can go around the table and get their ideas and then come to, like I said, common ground after everybody's idea and leave with everybody feeling good about the decision that was made or order negotiation, then that's kind of where I was kind of going with that.
[00:15:22] Speaker A: But yeah, I, I agree completely. I mean there's, you cannot under undervalue the power of the buy in. And the fastest way to get people to buy in is to let them feel like they have a voice. So I, I, I agree completely.
[00:15:37] Speaker B: So, Megan, now that we know what negotiation means or the power negotiation means, how does someone learn this skill to negotiate with power?
[00:15:46] Speaker A: So my number one tool and recommendation to everybody is actually a book. And if anybody out there listening is a negotiation buff, you're going to assume I'm going to say Chris Voss, because everybody associates Chris Boss with negotiation. I'm not, I'm not going to say that. I'm, I am a huge proponent of the frameworks that are outlined in the book Getting to Yes by Roger Fisher and William Urie. They are, they, they run the negotiations branch at Harvard Law School. And the book lays out very, very. What I love about it is it's not just high level. It lays out very actionable frameworks and strategies that anybody can implement to create a negotiation approach that works for them. You can also tailor those frameworks to the situation that you're approaching. So while the book is written by lawyers and is used a lot by lawyers, the frameworks are not for lawyers. Right. It's not law specific. And so the ideas that they talk about in there are identifying your best alternative to a negotiated resolution, your opponent's best alternative, similarly, the worst alternatives. It's really just about doing the homework ahead of time so that you know exactly what you want and what you're willing to settle for and so that you take the time before you ever walk in the room to do your best to approximate what you think the person with whom you're negotiating, what they want and what they're willing to settle for. The most powerful tool in negotiation that they talk about in the book is Also being aware of the worst alternative. So if we cannot reach a resolution today, what's the worst case scenario? Not just the best case scenario. What's the worst case scenario? Because oftentimes, when it comes to leverage, persuasion, bargaining power, and negotiation strategies, sometimes the hammer is more impactful than the reward. And so making sure that you know for yourself what the worst case of not reaching a resolution is, but also doing your best to figure out what it might be for the other person or people that you're negotiating with will really help inform the moves that you make as the negotiation goes on.
[00:18:01] Speaker B: I do love that. I totally agree with you on that, I think, and I agree being prepared for every scenario or, you know, or what could be the alternative.
You know, I talk about, I mean, I'll use my podcast as an example here. When I am guesting on a podcast, another person's podcast, I will listen to the other person's podcast and I'll get a good idea of how they run their podcast or how they do it. And so that I'm prepared, I'm not going to get the same questions in, in the podcast that I would be doing, but I want to get their feel and I want to get their.
I want to get how their mind works and that type of style. So when you're talking about negotiation, when you're walking into a negotiation, it would be good to be prepared because when you're negotiating with somebody, you do, and it's not to argue with them back and forth, but you, like you said, you want to figure out what the, what the worst case or what they would say so that you can kind of be prepared and have that answer. I know that lawyers, they are, you know, I've talked to a couple lawyers and they said to me, you know, we're used to getting into conversations or debates because that's all we do is we debate all day and we, that's what we're supposed to do. And we're good at debating because we come up with, you know, we have to be able to come up with answers and scenarios and be ready for any scenario on the fly, be prepared, but we have to be ready to go on the fly as well. But if you kind of have an idea, then I think, I know we're going to talk about communication quite a bit here, but I think the communicating part, I think you're going to be able to communicate better because there's going to be a little bit more of a, an understanding of the other person's side or what they might be feeling. And then I know people don't want to use the word or say the word, but I'm okay to say invulnerability. I think, you know, when you're, when you, you have a little bit of understanding. We're not saying that you're going to, oh, this person is like this. So we're going to, we'll give in. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying you have a little bit more of an understanding so you're prepared. And then instead of being, you know, answering in certain ways, like, you know, when you have to be a little bit firm, then you can be. But if you have, you know, if you have a little bit, if you need to be a little bit more vulnerable and understanding, you could still be stern, but you can answer in a, in a vulnerable and communicative way, if that makes sense.
[00:20:38] Speaker A: Absolutely, absolutely.
[00:20:41] Speaker B: So when can negotiations be difficult?
[00:20:46] Speaker A: Oh gosh, I think that the most difficult negotiations are when there's a lot of emotion involved as opposed to more sort of exclusively business related decisions. Right. So for example, an employee coming in to negotiate a raise or a promotion, there's going to be emotion with that. Whereas, you know, two maybe C level executives debating and negotiating the budget for next year and which departments need more money than other departments that's less emotional. Right. So they're more likely to usually get to a resolution because there's not much emotion tied to it. It's all a business decision at the end of the day. Ultimately somebody's going to be persuaded by, by the data. Right. It's a business decision, but when there's emotion involved, it makes, it raises the stakes for everybody. Not only the person who's coming in with the ask, but also the person on the receiving end that's trying to find middle ground or trying to reach a resolution because they are now responding to emotion. So I think absolutely, across the board, the most difficult negotiations are ones that are either centered in, arise out of or involve a lot of emotion.
[00:22:06] Speaker B: And so do you think it's just like, is there is. I guess it's. When you're talking about emotion, are we talking about like, we're just talking about anger here. Like if both sides are angry.
Like I'm thinking of, I'm thinking of like for example, like for example, when we're talking about, let's just say it's a union, right. And you're doing a negotiation with the two. With the union. And the union rep is negotiation, negotiating with the, with the, with the upper management. And there's anger there. Yeah, I, that, that I could definitely see the emotions coming out because you, you know, you're getting, you know, the longer it goes, the madder people get.
[00:22:45] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Anger is for sure a difficult emotion to negotiate around. And I'm, I'm, I'm choosing that, that preposition intentionally because when, when anger's in the room, it's almost a third party. Right. So you have to kind of negotiate around it. So certainly that's one what I was sort of thinking about that I think happens a little bit more often. Fortunately, anger doesn't. Anger doesn't become a driving factor in negotiations as often in my experience. I think what's more likely to be the emotion that's involved is going to be more around emotions related to self worth, particularly when we're talking about leadership. Because oftentimes the negotiations that leaders are going to be involved in are almost always going to be related to personnel in some way or another. And oftentimes those conversations by necessity implicate these ideas of self worth. Right. Like if you're coming in and asking for a raise, or you're coming in and asking for a promotion as the employee, you think you've earned it, you think that you like that's tied to your self worth. And if the answer is no, or maybe not, or let's talk about it, even if the answer is coming from a place of a business decision, like, I would love to give you a raise, but we just simply, literally do not have the money in the budget.
And it has nothing to do with the other person's self worth, the asker, the employee that's asking. They can't not receive it that way. Right. Like, it's very difficult to set aside the emotional component of that and be rational in that moment. It's very difficult to hear, no, but it's not about you. It's only about the budget. And not here. No, you're not worth it. Because employees, especially employees who maybe haven't necessarily had a leadership role in a company before and don't necessarily have a good understanding or an idea about the sort of peek behind the curtain about business finances and how those kind of things work and how those decisions can be made, they have this idea that like, well, you could do it if you really wanted to. There's always a way, right? There's a way for you to give me this, if you really valued me. And so there's this undertone that like there's all of these narratives, these stories that, that each side has told themselves before they've ever even walked into the room that become players in the negotiation. And that's what I mean when I talk about emotion makes it more difficult because you have to now figure out the stories and the narrative that the person that you're talking to and negotiating with has told themselves, because you have to make sure that you're playing into that in a way that. That is going to be most beneficial and favorable to you. Right. In this situation, if you're the employer and this really, truly is a valued employee that you don't want to lose and you truly do not have the budget to give them the raise they're asking for, you now have to figure out how to convey the no in a way that wraps it in a package that, like, you're still valuable, you're still worth it. I would do this if I could. No, truly, I. There literally is no way for me to make this happen right now. Maybe we can talk in Q1 of next year, whatever it is. But those narratives and stories become actors in the negotiation so that it, be. It expands it beyond the one on one or, you know, or, you know, whatever the actual number of people involved in the negotiation is. And so it's those types of emotions that, That I think are often even worse than anger, because although anger, like I said earlier, is basically a third person in the negotiation, anger is one of the easiest emotions to diffuse. And. But like those feelings of self worth, that's like so deeply ingrained and it's oftentimes people don't even realize that they're speaking from that place of emotion. They think they're being logical or neutral. They don't even know what's being implicated. Anger, Everybody knows you're angry. You know, when you're angry, you know, when other people are angry, anger is easy to diffuse. Those feelings that arise around self worth. That's a much trickier challenge, in my opinion.
[00:26:34] Speaker B: Right.
Yeah, I think I totally agree with you. Like, when we're talking about negotiation for sure, and how it can be difficult, I think it's. I would say it's the word. It's not the words, it's the tone. And you kind of said it a little bit there where you're like, you know, they could, you know, I could be the leader and I could tell you, megan, look, no, we're not, you know, I'm not giving you a raise. Or I could tell you, say, megan, look, you know, I. You are a valuable asset to the company.
I love that you're here and you add so much value to us and to our team. And, you know, I would like to give you a raise, but, you know, we just can't at this time. However, you know, let's talk about it and, you know, if you can just hang on or let's talk about it in three months time, and I will, you know, I'll see if I can do something, even if it's just a little bit. I will, you know, I'll show my commitment to you by doing so. And the wording, the two different wordings there mean a whole different ball of fire. Like you.
[00:27:42] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:43] Speaker B: You're going from one area to like, oh, my God, they don't want me to. Okay. They see me as a valuable asset, and they see me as part of the future plans for. For the company. They see me here in the next five years. They. They see me part of the. The solution. So there's a huge ball of fire. And, you know, you could.
I know myself hearing that, I would be like, okay, they do see a future for me. I'll hang on for a little bit and I'll be patient and I'll wait and see what's gonna happen. Right. We can always change our minds down the road, but for the short term, you got you. If you've engaged. Re. Engage me. So now I'm gonna. I'll stick with you.
[00:28:27] Speaker A: Yep. Yeah. You know, there's a. There's a saying that lawyers use with the negotiation, which is you reach a resolution when both parties are equally unhappy.
I. That usually does that. That rings true for me in my negotiations as an attorney, but I think when it comes to business leaders, I think it's the exact opposite. I think you reach a resolution when everybody walks out of the room feeling okay about themselves. Right. Like, even if it's a no, if you've walked out feeling less than defeated, if you walk out feeling like that was a productive conversation, I feel like we made headway. Maybe I didn't get to the desk, the final destination that I wanted to get to, but we're on that path, and I feel confident that we're going to revisit this down the line. I think that's. That's a successful negotiation.
[00:29:09] Speaker B: It certainly is, for sure.
Megan, is negotiations a core competency in your mind?
[00:29:18] Speaker A: You know, you did send this question to me in advance, and I must admit, I'm going to be totally honest with you here. I actually googled what is a core competence? Because I was like, oh, gosh, you Know what I want to make sure again? Lawyer. Right. I can't take the lawyer hat off. And so I'm like, I've got to make sure that we're using the same definitions of this word. Because if I say yes and it means something different to me than it means to Andrew. So I looked it up because I was like, gosh, you know what? I don't know. Let me think about that. So the handy Google machine gave me, gave me its definition of a core competency when it comes to individuals. I was impressed to learn by the way that there is a difference between core competencies for individuals and corporations entities. So I looked at, I focused, of course, on the definition of core competency for people. And after reading that definition, my initial gut response was, I think it can be a core competency for certain people, depending on their role.
[00:30:09] Speaker B: Right.
[00:30:09] Speaker A: But as we've talked more this morning, a little bit more about this, I think I'm actually changing my own mind on this.
[00:30:17] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:30:18] Speaker A: And I think that, I think that I would say that, that the power of negotiation, the ability to, to be comfortable doing it is a core competency. I don't necessarily think always being successful at it or feeling like you're good at it has to be a core competency, but I think feeling confident and comfortable enough to not shy away from negotiations in any aspect of your life, I think that is a core competency.
[00:30:47] Speaker B: I, I agree with you 100 on that. I think, you know, I just think the skill we talked about confidence and I think just the skill of being able to go in and all the different aspects of, or different ways that we would need to negotiate. You know, I mentioned to you before we started taping today, you know, you're, you're manager or leader of a department, you're going to see your leader and saying, hey, listen, this is what we want to do. We want to put this process in. And, you know, and leaders are like, well, why you want to put it in? Or what? Have you explained to me how it's going to benefit your team and you need to go negotiate that if you really want it, you need to be able to come with strong facts. And you said it before being prepared. So you have to go in and if you're wanting something, you want to negotiate it, you need to be prepared in your head to say, hey, this is what I want. This is what I think that they're gonna ask me. So I gotta be prepared. I gotta be ready to answer everything. Because if I go in, I'm not sure. Well, then they're gonna say, well, listen, you know, come back to see me in six months and we'll, you know, we'll talk about it then. But. So you need to be ready to go with everything. You're still. They still might say no, but you gotta come out of it saying, well, I gave it my all and you can't be afraid. I will say to myself, I can't be afraid to say the word no and hear the word no. So you got to go in and say, you got to be ready to hear that it might be a no, but it may not be a no permanently. It just may be a no for right now.
[00:32:23] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I think, again, it really just comes down to, like, not being afraid to have the conversation, not being afraid to hear the no, having the confidence and, and the, the power to, you know, to tie it all together, to bring it back to the beginning and the power to say, you know what? I'm not afraid to. I'm not afraid to have these conversations. I'm not afraid to negotiate. I can do this just like everybody else.
[00:32:49] Speaker B: I totally agree with you. So listen, this has been such a great conversation. I want to know from you, Megan, in closing, what is one takeaway that you want our listeners to get from this conversation and episode?
[00:33:04] Speaker A: I think my number one takeaway is that you have the power to negotiate right now. You do not need to be afraid to do it. You do not need to feel like you need to delegate that power. You can do it. There are ways that you can prepare ahead of time so that you can feel more confident going into it. But every single person has the innate skill, power, and ability to negotiate anything, anytime, anywhere, any place that they, that they want to and that they need to.
[00:33:37] Speaker B: Listen. I am in full agreement with you. I do feel that everybody has the power, and I feel that everybody has the confidence to do it. And if you don't have the confidence to do it, then I definitely would suggest to, to check out Megan's training or check out other trainings and get the confidence and be prepared so that when you do have to go into situations or further situations or situations that you're not comfortable in, then you'll be ready to go for sure.
[00:34:06] Speaker A: So absolutely.
[00:34:08] Speaker B: 100. Megan, I want to take the time to thank you for coming on today. As I mentioned earlier, I really have some really strong bonds with people on LinkedIn, but I am, I will admit to the listeners, I am a huge fanboy of yours. I, I just admire everything that you do. Everything that you say.
I've had the opportunity to listen to a lot of your, you know, stuff that you do and even your one talks, I've had the opportunity to, to listen to them. And I truly, truly admire your, your, your communication skills and how you, you communicate so clearly and concisely and you're. And, and I love your vulnerability. I just love the fact that you were.
You're so vulnerable and you just speak from the heart and I just admire that. And I just, I'm honored that you took the time to chat with me today.
[00:35:03] Speaker A: Well, thank you, Andrew. And of course, I'm sure, you know the feeling is mutual. I think we have been equal fan girls of each other on LinkedIn since we first became, since we first connected. Gosh, it's probably been close to what, nine, nine or 10 months now that we've been connected. So I'm a huge fan of yours. I admire everything that you've built with the podcast. I know a lot of the history there and how, how that's been, how that's been a challenge that you've really, really faced head on and overcome to build this amazing podcast that you have now that I'm very, truly honored to be a part of. So thank you so much for having me.
[00:35:34] Speaker B: You're very welcome. On behalf of myself and my guest Megan, I would like to take time to thank you all for listening today. And until next time, everybody be safe and remember that if we all work together, we can accomplish anything.
[00:35:51] Speaker A: You have been listening to. Let's be diverse with Andrew Stout. To stay up to date with future content, hit subscribe.
[00:36:01] Speaker B: It.
