Mental health in the workplace

[00:00:04] Speaker A: Opinions expressed in this episode are personal. They do not necessarily reflect the views of this streaming platform. [00:00:14] Speaker B: Good day, everyone, and welcome to another edition of let's be diverse. I am your host, Andrew Stout. This episode is dedicated to all my loved ones who supported me through this journey. Mental illness is a leading cause of disability in many organizations. Some of the most indirect costs related to poor mental health in the workplace are absenteeism, presenteeism, and challenges with recruitment and retention. Today we'll be talking about mental health in the workplace. My guest today is someone who talks about this a great deal. Her name is Andrea. Andrea has been a client service manager remoteish for the past year. Remotish is a diamond tier solutions partner. Her interests include dance, mental health and her beagle. [00:01:04] Speaker A: Yes, that sounds just like me. [00:01:06] Speaker B: Welcome to the show, Andrea. It is a pleasure to have you on today. [00:01:10] Speaker A: Thank you so much, Andrew. And thank you for having me on. [00:01:12] Speaker B: Very welcome. It was so great to connect with you way, way back. And I know we talked about having this happen, so I'm happy that we are here today and doing this episode. [00:01:23] Speaker A: Yeah. Yes. As your intro stated, mental health is something that means a lot to me and to my life, and I found a way to make it work in my professional life as well as my personal life. Whatever insight, knowledge I can share for others who have similar struggles or similar circumstance is really why I talk about what I talk about. [00:01:41] Speaker B: Awesome. How are things with you in your world? What's new? [00:01:45] Speaker A: Things in my world are good. We had our annual convention through HubSpot, which is the partner agency, the diamond tier, that you referenced again in the bio and the intro. So my team and I were normally fully remote. We just spent the last week with each other in Boston. So, yes, just getting back and getting into the swing of things. And as we were talking a bit offline, we started my new season of dance. So I had my first classes this evening, which is always a great time for me, something I look forward to each year. [00:02:18] Speaker B: Awesome. And you were telling me offline, you are a ballet and tap dance teacher. [00:02:25] Speaker A: Yes. So the classes I was teaching today are ballet and tap. But I have done all, really all styles through the many years that I've been teaching. This is my 23rd season. So for 23 years I've been teaching. And it goes from ballet to tap to hip hop to musical theater and pretty much everything in between. [00:02:44] Speaker B: And I love that you guys were in Boston. I love that city. It's so much fun. There's so much to do. I just find people always are so friendly in Boston. I just love that city. I have some very close friends of mine that live out there, and I just love when I get to visit because, like I said, I just find everybody so fun and they're always in a good mood and they're so happy to meet you. [00:03:10] Speaker A: I want to know where you hang out, where everyone is always in a good mood. I need to start hanging out there. [00:03:16] Speaker B: It's just in certain spots, certain areas, my friends are like that, so they usually hang out or spend time with people who are similar to them. So I have nothing but good thoughts of people of Boston, that's for sure. [00:03:30] Speaker A: Very good. I have to agree. I haven't encountered any grumpy people in Boston, at least not yet. But this was my second time being in Boston this year. I did spend a few extra days in the city so that I could go around and explore. We visited a museum, so it was nice to be able to enjoy it for more than just, like, the hectic work conference schedule that happens. [00:03:53] Speaker B: Was it just you or all the people that you met out there? Did they stay as well? [00:03:57] Speaker A: So there was a few of my coworkers that stayed for the extra weekend. Our conference wrapped on Friday, and a few of us stayed until Monday morning. We had a nice dinner together. We went to the Isabella Garner museum that's there, which, if you don't know anything about that, has a very interesting history. One of the largest art heists in the history of the world happened at this museum in the early 90s. So I'm a big documentary person. I'm just interested in all different types of things. So that is one of his documentaries on Netflix, if you care to watch. Very interesting. But because I watched it is the reason why I wanted to go to this museum and check it out. So that's what we did. [00:04:42] Speaker B: I'm into documentaries at all. I just love get the real behind the scene information of what the story is. So I just love them. [00:04:51] Speaker A: Yes, I do, too. I'm great on a trivia team because I'm just full of useless information. [00:04:57] Speaker B: So if I ever put a trivia team together, you will be one of the first people I contact. [00:05:02] Speaker A: There you go. That's a good choice. [00:05:05] Speaker B: You'll be my first pick. [00:05:06] Speaker A: All right. [00:05:07] Speaker B: I like it. So before we begin, I always have a fun question to ask my guests to get things going. Are you ready for yours? [00:05:17] Speaker A: I think so. [00:05:19] Speaker B: This is a. Would you rather. [00:05:20] Speaker A: Okay. [00:05:21] Speaker B: Would you rather speak in rhyme or riddles for the rest of your life? [00:05:27] Speaker A: I think I would rather speak in rhyme. Communication is hard enough. If we add riddles to that, I think that might just make things more complex. But I am also a big fan of hip hop music, and I feel like if those people can make it work and speak and rhyme, then I could too. [00:05:45] Speaker B: Yes, there's some very good hip hop songs, and you pretty much get the message across. I am an old school hip hop fan. I haven't really got into a lot of the newer stuff, but as far as old school hip hop, I actually was just at home on the weekend, and I put some on and it made me think and reminisce. [00:06:08] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm an elder millennial, so technically what I would listen to also would probably be considered older hip hop. But I'm like you. That faint angled music the kids listen to now, I don't connect with it. I like the older stuff, too. [00:06:24] Speaker B: Yeah, listen to old stuff, but mostly, like 90s, even 2000, the thousands would be considered older now, right? [00:06:34] Speaker A: Yeah, that's about 23 years ago, so. [00:06:37] Speaker B: A lot of it I forgot about this song and. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. So it's pretty cool that when you hear them, kind of makes you think of something for me, anyways. It makes you think of some sort of situation. [00:06:49] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's easily connected to a memory. Right. Those songs, like in high school that were popular makes me think of school dances and hanging out with my friends. And the dancer in me remembers every routine that I've ever learned to every song. So if one of those songs come on, it takes me back to that class or that group that I was with or that particular instructor that I had. So, yes, it's a great tie to memory. [00:07:14] Speaker B: Thank you very much for having fun with me. I just love doing these questions with my guests. You answered it very well, so thank you very much. Why don't we start off with you telling us a little bit about you and your story? [00:07:26] Speaker A: Yeah. So my story is varied and takes many twists and turns. We have this conversation a lot with people that I just meet because they're usually interested in my background, and once they find out that I have a law degree and went to law school, they're like, how in the world did you start working in tech and becoming the client services manager of an agency? My educational career started post high school. I went to central Michigan University, and I have a background in public relations. So I did that for some time, decided in my mid to late twenty s to go back to law school. So I did that and I graduated from law school. Right before COVID hit, about a year before COVID hit. That has been educational journey. And then I think everybody maybe felt like their lives got turned upside down with COVID Lots of people lost their jobs or their regular source of income. And just the world as we knew it had changed completely. So that is the catalyst that sent me into the world of tech and into the world of HubSpot and how I got to the role that I'm in now. I had worked for another HubSpot agency, so I got to learn that ecosystem. I really liked it. And then I started doing some research in if I stayed in this industry and in this type of role, where is the most ideal place for me to work? I found this company called remoteish, which is where I work now. I had set my intentions at the beginning of 2022, and I had said to my partner when we were talking at the new year, what is it this year that we want to do? What are our goals? And one of them for me was to work at remoteish. So when they had a job opening, I applied, and the rest, as they say, is history. And that's how I became the client services manager there. [00:09:11] Speaker B: And it seems like it's a great company. Like, I see that you and some of your coworkers do some videos and you guys talk about a certain topic and stuff like that, and I understand that's part of your job description. [00:09:23] Speaker A: Yeah. So what we call, or if people aren't familiar with that, it's called thought leadership, meaning people who, not that I necessarily think that my thoughts are better than other people's, but we're taking to the Internet, taking on the world to share our thoughts and ideas, mostly about the things that have to do with work, or HubSpot, which is a CRM, or the things that go along with that. Product updates, things like that. But one of the main topics that a coworker and I talk about, which is how we got connected, I think you saw one of our videos on LinkedIn that was shared around. We talk about mental health specifically. So as the title of our company might give away. We're a fully remote company, which has a lot of benefits to people who struggle with mental health or maybe other social anxieties, which is something that has affected me in my life and roles that I've had in the past. We are sharing our experience of what it's like to be fully remote and work in a place where your mental health is understood. It's not used as an excuse for anything, but you're also given grace to be yourself and have space to be human and be a little bit messy and ask for the accommodations and things that you need, which it's sad that everybody doesn't have that. Now that I have that in my life, I'm so grateful for it. But it makes me think back on the many other roles and situations that I've had where that wasn't an option. And at that time, I think it would have been really hopeful for me to be able to log in somewhere to hear other people talk about something that I would aspire to be a part of or work for a company like. So that is why we share and talk about mental health on LinkedIn as part of our thought leadership. [00:11:08] Speaker B: I love what you said. They're given grace. I speak to a lot of people, especially there's quite a few podcasts where I've asked the question to say a little bit about themselves. And a lot of them have started off saying that they were in an industry and they weren't enjoying it. And I'm not sure if I am crazy about the word toxic, but they were in an unsafe environment. They felt like their leadership wasn't understanding to the situations, and it just made it hard for not just Dan Buffer, other coworkers. So it's amazing that your company does that, because I think it's super important to make sure that their employees have a safe work environment so that they can go home, think clearly, and be able to relax with their loved ones and not feel stressed about what was or what could happen the next day in the workplace. [00:12:08] Speaker A: Sure. Unpacking a lot of what you said. We'll start with the toxic comment. I think I understand why maybe that word isn't comfortable using. You're like, okay, I don't want to call someone toxic if I have this limited scope on this person and I'm only seeing their behavior from 08:00 a.m. To 05:00 p.m. Can I really say that? I know that they're a toxic person, and I think that is tricky. But I think if we just come to the table with the acceptance and understanding that we're all human and we all have toxic tendencies, right? That doesn't mean that we're, like a fully toxic person, but we just need to learn how to communicate better or how to set better boundaries or how to make sure that there's a psychological safety. So I think that's something, too. As you're speaking about safety in the workplace, some people might not even understand or are aware that there's, like, a psychological safety component to work and to being a manager like I am, and being on the other side of that, being an individual contributor who has a manager that can understand that. So I think all of those components work to have the least amount of toxicity in an environment as possible. That doesn't mean that issues don't arise, but we're way better equipped to handle them than we would be if we didn't have these practices. And the safety that I spoke about. [00:13:31] Speaker B: Oh, for sure. And you mentioned the key there. It's communication. And I do believe it's also having the ability to listen, and I think also, too, having the ability to listen with pause. In other words, letting the person say what's on their mind, but not reacting right away to have a solution to it. Pausing. Let them speak and let them air out what their differences are, what they're feeling or what's on their mind. [00:14:01] Speaker A: Sure. And that's what I would like to call, or I think some people would refer to as giving them space for that. That doesn't mean that I need to necessarily agree with where they're coming from or their full stance of their argument or their position, but that doesn't mean that I can't listen to understand instead of listening to respond or react. One of the videos that are on LinkedIn, my coworker and I spoke about a book called the four agreements. I'm not sure if you caught that one, but there are these four agreements that this book talks about to help bring out the best in situations or the things in your life. And the big one for me, the one agreement that really stuck out to me and I thought took the most work for me, is to not take things personally. And I think that's like a huge thing in interpersonal relationships and work relationships. But if you can learn how to do that, compartmentalize that. Just because this person is having a problem or they disagree with something, it's not a personal attack on me or my values or my beliefs. Give them the space to say what they have to say and then go forward with the intent to make it better and not take it as someone is saying these things about me. It's about the situation. I think that of all the agreements that book talks about, that one was the one that took the most work for me. [00:15:18] Speaker B: Oh, for sure. What does mental health mean to you? [00:15:23] Speaker A: Mental health to me, I think, has many components. It is like an actual science. There are people who go to school for many years to understand or try to start to understand the inner workings of our minds, our brains, and how that all works. My background is very anecdotal. I didn't go to school for mental health. I'm not a doctor. I just want to make sure that's clear to everyone. So everything that I speak about is from my own experience and struggles that I've dealt with in my life, I have OCD. So if that's not something you or your listeners are familiar with, it's called obsessive compulsive disorder. It has many different themes that can present and looks different on different people. So a lot of people will hear that and they think, oh, that's great. So you're really detail oriented and very organized, and you like things a certain way, and it's like, yes, that's part of it, but there's a lot more that goes behind that. And in true fashion, like most mental illnesses, it's not alone. So my OCD comes hand in hand with depression and anxiety. So those are the things that I've learned to deal with on a professional basis, on a personal basis. So if there is something that I've learned and can make someone else's life easier because they listen to what I have to say in my own thought leadership or joining podcasts like this, it's really my intent and what I'm all about. So, mental health, to me, to answer your question, very long winded here, is finding that balance in life where I can still feel like myself. I don't feel like I have to mask all the time, but gives a good balance where other people are feeling comfortable with it, and that I can do day to day things, care for myself in a way that maybe some people take for granted or take advantage of because they don't understand or they've never struggled with those types of problems before. [00:17:10] Speaker B: I agree with you 100%. So you mentioned that you were OCD. I am ADHD. I know other people that are ADHD, but I think it's important to understand that even though someone is ADHD, what I try to do or what my thought process, not to say that I fully understand what they're going through, because I can't. I can never understand what they're fully going through. So I use the word sympathize. I sympathize with you. I don't understand what you're fully going through, but I sympathize what your thoughts are, what you could be going through on a daily basis. So they understand a little bit. They see that I have a little bit of understanding. And I'm always open to discussions as far as that goes. And again, the listening part. [00:17:56] Speaker A: Yes. And I think for someone like me, as a manager and a manager of people, it's always good to have that point of view. One thing I like to tell the people on my team is whatever you're going through is meant to be there to understand. Like I said in the beginning, I want to understand. I'm not going to let it make excuses for us, but it will get to a place where we can figure out how to make it better, how to make it work for both people. So it's like I said, not an excuse for poor behavior, but a space to understand. To say, like, I understand that I'm struggling with this, I acknowledge it. And they can either say, I need some help working through this, or I've got it under control. I've got the support system. I just need some space and some grace. So I think having a leader at the company or a manager at your company that can understand that and that you're able to talk to like that is worth more than I can probably state because I've had it the other way and I know how difficult that can be. And you think it's just work. It's not like your whole life, but how much of a bad interaction at work can affect your day and then affect your week and your month, and if it keeps going on years and years of your life, it's happened to. [00:19:07] Speaker B: Me as well, too. So I sympathize with you on that for sure. So I think we talked about a little bit, but let's go a little bit more in depth. How do you think mental health should be handled in the workplace? [00:19:19] Speaker A: I think that depends on the individual and maybe what they're struggling with. But going back to the psychological safety, having a place where you know, if you're going to come to your manager or come to someone else on your team to say, here's what I'm struggling with, and maybe it comes out messy and you don't have all of the answers and you're not necessarily sharing it with this person. Like you said, to have a response or to get all of the solution, but just as a place to like, I just need to talk about it. Maybe just have someone validate me about what I'm going through and that it's hard, and to have someone be like, I'm not going to weaponize this and use this against you, but let's figure out how we can make this work so that the things that need to get done can still get done the way that you need to care for yourself, that you're still able to care for yourself. So both parties are having their needs met, but there is an understanding of what's going on. So I think that is one way in the workplace to deal with mental health. I also think mental health is something that should be celebrated, which I don't think is. Is very common in the workplace for me if I'm struggling with something, and it's not my natural tendency to be open and share these things either. This has come with many years of treatment and figuring it out for myself, but I always think about me ten years ago, how much I would have appreciated having someone to listen to or talk to about the things that I was going through. So it's just my way of giving back. So not only having the space to be able to talk about it where it's not being weaponized, but also celebrating the good aspects of mental health and the good habits that you set or the good things you put in place to keep that part of you intact. As a professional, I think, is how it should be handled. [00:21:01] Speaker B: And I think for myself, I've learned to express myself a little better and explain exactly what I need. If it's a situation of not understanding or something, I'm not afraid to say I don't understand this, or I learn a little bit differently. So can you give me another example or can you show me in a different way? Because the way that you're trying to explain it to me, I'm not getting it. So can we do it another way? [00:21:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:21:28] Speaker B: Before, maybe years ago, I would have been afraid to say that because I'm like, oh, I don't want to say. I don't want to say that because people are going to find out about it and what have you, and now I'm not afraid. We have this open forum now, and I wouldn't say it's perfect, but I think there's a little bit more understanding now from people and very great managers who are willing to listen and to understand. They better try to understand different situations and different. [00:21:54] Speaker A: Yeah, I like that. I think it's something that's difficult because there are common things that everybody could do to make it a little bit easier on everyone, but then it's also something that's so specific to the situation and the person that you have to take the time. Like as a manager, I took the time to get to know my team and understand them, which, when you're fully remote can be quite difficult sometimes. You have to be really good at communicating and really open with that communication. [00:22:19] Speaker B: And does your company teach you this or was this something that you learned as you were becoming a manager? Because it sounds like you fully have a good grasp of that and a very good understanding of what is needed and that everybody is different and different learning ways or people come with different ethnic backgrounds. So you have to understand, seem like you have a full grasp of that, understanding of differences. [00:22:46] Speaker A: I'm not quite sure if it's a full grasp of it, but it is something that I care about and something that I'm interested in. So I do feel like I'm always learning about it and I'm always listening to things that are relevant. So to answer your question, in some ways, yes, I am taught a lot of these things from my own manager or just the different situations that maybe they have been in. They can share their learnings and experience with me. I think part of it is my own journey to turn my mental illness into a mental wellness type thing, like not taking the negative side of it. And a big part of that is my own journey within therapy, which again, not my normal natural thing to want to share with people. But I am so much more open about it now because it has been so beneficial and I really honestly think everybody could benefit from having a therapist. It's been a great experience for me and I've learned a lot about understanding. I've learned a lot about myself and I've learned a lot about people just in general going through that experience. But I also think it is something that I might have a natural inclination to like. My undergrad degree, being in public relations and some of the first jobs that I've held, I have to deal with people a lot. And knowing people or trying to being good at reading the room or reading a situation are things that I'm not sure can be taught, but are so valuable, especially as a leader or a manager in a company or within your own role. [00:24:11] Speaker B: I want to compliment you because one of the first things I think makes a good leader, I think we talked about a little bit before, is knowing that you don't have all the answers. A leader that answers a question and they're not giving a correct answer or they think they know it, but they don't, is not the correct way. A good leader that is vulnerable and respected by their team is one that says, I don't know the answer to that, but what I will do is I will find that answer out and as soon as I get it, I will communicate that response to you at this time because I wouldn't want to give you any false information. [00:24:53] Speaker A: Sure. Yes, that's a good point. I think with my industry specifically, so the team that I manage, we do a lot of technical things within a CRM or with technology, and that is not my area of expertise. So it's interesting to be a manager of people who know more about what it is that you're supposed to be doing and managing than you do. But once you can get over that, and if you have the confidence in your own abilities, because of my experience and what I went through, I know that if there's something that comes to me and I'm not sure about it and I don't know how to ask the right questions, I trust in myself to be able to do the research to figure that out. And I would hope that over time, like your team or the team that I work with now understands that. Right. I know the different strengths of people on my team. So if I need to know certain something, be like, okay, this is a person that I would ask this question to. So at least going to the wisest point of view in the quote unquote room, or in my case, it's remote. The person that I want to connect with, either on Zoom or on Google Meet or something, then I'm able to talk about it with them. And then I have faith in my own abilities to ask the right questions, to figure things out, to get pointed in the right direction, and then take the steps from there. But I do think that is a big misconception before you become a manager, that you do think your manager knows everything. Maybe it's like when you're a kid growing up, like, you think your parents know everything, and then you grow up to realize they're just regular people like me. Maybe they just have more experience in figuring things out. Yeah, I would say that is probably the biggest thing that I learned my first year of being a manager, is that I don't have to know everything. All I have to do is trust in my abilities that got me here to be able to keep figuring things out. [00:26:39] Speaker B: I don't know about you, but when I was a teenager, my late father used to always tell me, well, you think you know everything. And I would say, I do. And he'd say to me, you know what? As you get older, you're going to realize that you don't know everything. I look back at it, I say, he was right, because you're a teenager, you think you know everything, but in reality you don't. [00:27:01] Speaker A: Yes. [00:27:03] Speaker B: The same thing as a manager. [00:27:04] Speaker A: Right? [00:27:05] Speaker B: They don't know everything. They don't know the answers. It's okay to ask. Even if you're an employee, it's okay to ask questions as well. [00:27:11] Speaker A: Yes. I have this saying that I say I'm old enough to know that I don't know everything, because like you, there was a time where I was young enough that I thought I did know everything or everything I needed to know that was important to me at that time. So I agree with that. [00:27:26] Speaker B: So what would you say are some of the symptoms of mental health? So what are things that you feel or that you might see as far as mental health goes? [00:27:36] Speaker A: That, again, really depends on the person and their own diagnosis they get from a medical professional or someone in the mental health industry world background for me specifically, because that's the situation and the person that I know the most. I know that my mental health are symptoms that show me my mental health is struggling. When I have a hard time concentrating, when I have difficulty communicating, almost like my words get jumbled around in my mind and I don't know how to get them out in a way that would make sense to people and also not offend them. At the same time, my sleep patterns get really disturbed. My eating patterns are more disordered than probably they normally are. Little things like that that me and my support system know to look for, to say, okay, let's have a check in. Did something trigger you? Is something stressed out? I also take medication for my OCD and things like that. It's okay. Are we taking those on time every day? Because if I miss something like that, it does. It affects me probably in bigger ways than other people who don't struggle with things like that. But I think for me, as a manager of people and who these people might not be fully comfortable sharing those types of things with you to learn, that's okay. But I've also learned that if I'm just open and honest about it, that more often than not, that they are going to respond with that same open honesty, and then I can have a little bit better understanding and not again, in a way to weaponize or be like, what are you doing that for? It's, hey, I've dealt with this in my life, and I did exactly what you're doing right now. I'm not saying that this is the same for you, but here's what I've learned and what I found works. And then the ball is in their court. Right. They can say, that sounds like a great idea, I'm going to try it, or you know what? I like part of that, then I'm going to try. But then let me put my own spin on it to see how it works and how my life and mental health is affected by that. So I think it's tricky to have a blanket statement like that, like, what are some of the symptoms? But I think as long as you're aware of the people who you are in charge of or in charge for that, you're aware of who they are at their core and what makes them tick, that it makes it a lot easier to notice when things are maybe a little bit off with them. [00:29:49] Speaker B: That's perfect. That's exactly the answer that I was looking for. I know for myself, I notice if something was not going well, I did something and it wasn't good, then I find sometimes it could snowball for me, so then there could be something else. And then that's when a little bit of the anxiety comes in because you're like, oh, my God, now this happened first. Now this is happening. And then it's hard. You have to do some stuff to get myself on track and say, okay, it's going to be okay. So I try to use a little bit of breathing techniques to try to get myself back on track, try to tell myself it's going to be okay. Let's take two deep breaths and see if we can figure it out. But I have to do that on my own. Nobody can tell me to take a breath or breathe or whatever, or do this or do that. I know what's going on and I know the things that I need to do. They have a technique that I use as well, four corners. So I just grab myself, look around four corners, know, okay, this is where I am, and then go from there. [00:30:54] Speaker A: Sounds like you use that mindfulness tactic with the four corners. That is also a technique that I learned through therapy. And if it's something that other people aren't familiar with, it is really placing yourself presently in the moment. So if you struggle with anxiety or have panic attacks, they say to use mindfulness, like, what's something that you can see? What's something that you can touch? What's something that you can smell? Is there something nearby that you can taste like to be fully present in that moment in your own body, not to dissociate from that? So, yeah, I would say that is a great tactic that I've learned to use myself. And the breathing also a great suggestion those are two things that I actually carry with me even into my dance classes with my students, because I think that is a great thing people of all ages need to learn. [00:31:44] Speaker B: It sure is. For sure. So as a manager, when you see coworkers, when there's an individual who is having difficulties with mental health, the coworkers are trying to understand what's happening or in some cases, wondering how they can help them. How would you, as a manager, go about explaining, maybe not technically what's going on with the employee, but what they can do to support them? [00:32:13] Speaker A: Yeah, another great question, and I think another one of those things that really depends on the person in the situation. For someone like me who has struggled with these things for most of their life, I've learned that it's not very situational. It's more chemical. Like the way my brain actually works and the way things are wired and the way they produce certain things, like serotonin, for example. Some people go through struggles, though, because of situational things that are happening. Like you said, if you know someone on your team is going through something major, they lost someone in their family, a parent, a sibling, that can be a very triggering event for most people. That causes them to have a little bit of struggles. Now, if something like that happens, and then right away another thing happened, that would probably be a good indicator or a good time as a manager to check in, to be like, you are dealing with a lot. Do you want to talk about it? Here is your space to talk about it. I can take off my manager hat. I can just put on my good person hat, fellow coworker hat, and we don't even need to do the whole manager individual contributor relationship. I'm here to listen. I'm here if you want that advice. So I think another good thing before the person starts talking to ask is, do you want the space to just vent and for me to listen, or would you like my thoughts and my opinions on it? Because I think sometimes people get to that place and it's so hard for them to open up that when someone just starts telling them, here's what I think you should do, it causes them to close up, and it's less likely that they share those things again. But if you ask them that in the beginning and they're like, really? I just want the space to get this out. A lot of times, that's just what we need as humans, get it off of our chest, and then maybe we can see things a little bit more clearly. We can work through them a little bit more easily. So I think as coworkers, that's one thing we can do, is just pay attention to those little things. And if you have enough communication in your organization to know that when these major things happen in people's lives, that they're shared, and it goes back to that space and grace, understanding that we're all human, we all go through things. So I think that's one really big thing that any coworker can do for someone else who might be struggling with something. For me, as a manager, I think that the time that I invested in getting to know my team and to, I guess, in some ways, maybe reassure them that I'm just like a normal person. One of the things that we talk about at my company is that we like to challenge the traditional working standards or the way society has viewed work, which is you have to be here in this office from this time to this time, 40 hours a week. That's the only way that you're allowed to contribute and do work. So Covid and a lot of other things changed that and really challenged that to begin with. But remoteish, the company I work for, actually started fully remote work before the pandemic hit. So we feel like everybody else is just getting caught up to the work that we had already started doing at this company. To learn about asynchronous communication, to learn how to stay connected, even though you're not even in the same state, sometimes a few of the people on our team are actually in a different country. So sometimes you're even in a completely different country from these people, and it's like, how do we stay connected? How do we feel like, know each other in a way that we feel comfortable talking about these things. So I think as a manager, you really have to take the time to invest in that, find out what their interests are, what their hobbies are, take note of the things that they speak about, and then follow up with them on that. I know all of my coworkers pets names. I know if they have children, I know their children's names. I try to remember everybody's birthday. Like, little things like that, I think can go a long way in getting people to feel comfortable and open up to you. I think the hardest part, too, about going from individual contributor to manager is getting over the thought or idea that everyone has to like you. And maybe you go through this at some point in your own maturity as you grow. Like, not everyone has to like you, but as a manager, I make sure that everybody respects me, whether or not they agree with me. Or we would hang out after work and grab a beer together. We all respect each other. And I think when you have the foundation of respect and care, regardless of how anything else has felt about these people, that is a great way to be supportive. So if you are in a place where you don't feel respected or that people don't care about you, I would really question, can I really, truly thrive in this environment? I like plants. I like to have plants around. If a plant doesn't do well where I put it, I'm not like, well, you just can't thrive in the fast paced environment like I put you in. No, that's not what I would do. I would find the place where I could thrive. The right amount of sunlight, I figure out how often it needs to be watered. People aren't that different from that. [00:36:58] Speaker B: Agree with you. I love what you a few things that you said, support. I think that's very important. And it sounds like you try to be part of your team. I feel like you've built rapport with your team, and I truly believe that when you build rapport, you gain trust and respect from your team. And once you've gotten that, you've got engagement to the max and they will pretty much go to battle for you. And that's what you want. [00:37:26] Speaker A: Yeah, maybe not go to battle for me, but something of the, like when we need to put our heads down or band together, you know what I. [00:37:34] Speaker B: Mean when I say go to battle? Mean that we should all be productive when we're at work. We should be doing what we're supposed to be doing. But when something extra needs to be done, instead of having one person offer, you're going to have everybody offering, well, I'll do it. I'll do it. I'll do. [00:37:49] Speaker A: Sure, sure. [00:37:51] Speaker B: I've had friends of mine who worked for a company and somebody's behind and they're staying because they're behind in their work. And everybody says, okay, so and so is staying. Andrew's staying today. Well, we're a team, so we're all going to stay until we help Andrew get his work done. It's an hour. Let's stay an hour and let's help him get it. I think that's part of teamwork and I think that rapport building makes that. [00:38:15] Speaker A: Yes, I think rapport building is little foundational things that you could do that go such a long way for the people that you work with. [00:38:24] Speaker B: It sure does. It absolutely does. If you could choose one word to describe yourself, what word would that be. [00:38:32] Speaker A: That is tricky. I think I would choose the word tenacious. Yeah. I think my life has been marked by things that I think would easily dispel most people, but I have just persisted in my own existence and through things that at the time, you don't think twice about because you're just doing what you have to do. Then when you get to the other side of those things and you look back, you're like, God, I really did all of that. Not alone. Right. I had a support system. I had people that helped me get through it and the right people to get me through it. But you still have to make the decision to do that and to have those people support you. I think that would be my one word. What about you? Has anyone ever asked you what the one word they would describe you as? [00:39:17] Speaker B: I've been asked this question a few times. Reply to me asking it, and I would say genuine would be the word that I would use, and they want people have an along with that. I would say genuine. [00:39:30] Speaker A: That's a good word. Yeah, I like that. I like that. I would hope that would be a word that would pop into people's minds if they were asked like, oh, what do you think about Andrea? I would want genuine to be one of those things. So I think that's a great word to pick. [00:39:45] Speaker B: I would definitely take tenacious for you, but I would also say for you, compassionate as well, because from my feelings with you, you are a very compassionate person, and you seem to care about people's well beings and how they're doing and helping them out whenever you can. So I would definitely say compassionate. [00:40:04] Speaker A: Yeah. Thank you for that. That's a very nice compliment, and I do agree with what you said. I think everybody deserves to have an experience where they feel understood, validated, heard, and seen. And there's very little that I have to do to change my normal day to make sure that people experience that. [00:40:24] Speaker B: And I think as long as we surround ourselves with the right people, I know for myself there's been times where things were not going well for me, and the ones that stuck around through it were the ones that I would say are the right people because they're still around today. [00:40:41] Speaker A: Yeah. The conference that we just had with our coworkers, one of the speakers that they had there was using their 40th birthday as, like, a marker of when they started editing their friendships, is what they said. And when you go through those things, and I think maybe by the time most people are 40, they've at least done a few things that are quite difficult. You do learn the people that are really there for you or there for other motivations. And there's nothing more special than that of having the right people near you when you need them. [00:41:11] Speaker B: No, because those are the people that are going to pick up the phone or they're going to send you a text and they're going to say, hey, just wanted to say hello and see how you're doing. And a lot of times that might be something that you needed that day and you're like, oh, my God, did they read my mind or did they feel like they needed to contact me? Because this was the perfect timing for this phone call or this text. So those are the right people that. [00:41:38] Speaker A: You want that know you well enough? Yeah. That's great. [00:41:44] Speaker B: Any final thoughts today? [00:41:45] Speaker A: Thank you so much for taking the time to invite me on your show and the questions and getting to know me. It's a great experience and I think the topics that you are picking and choosing to speak about are great and things that need to be talked about openly in the workplace. [00:42:02] Speaker B: Thank you very much. I really appreciate that. That is a huge compliment. I appreciate you and appreciate your compliment. I'm trying to talk about things that I think are important, but they're not being talked about enough. I feel that in this space is a good opportunity to talk about them and I feel like more and more people are open to listening to them and talking about them. So I think it's a win. [00:42:28] Speaker A: There you go. Thank you so much. [00:42:31] Speaker B: You're very welcome. On behalf of myself and my guest Andrea, I would like to thank you all for taking the time to listen today. And until next time, be safe and remember that if we all work together. [00:42:45] Speaker A: We can accomplish anything you have been listening to. Let's be diverse with Andrew Stout. To stay up to date with future content, hit subscribe.