Upskilling

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Opinions expressed in this episode are personal. They do not necessarily reflect the views of this streaming platform. [00:00:09] Speaker B: Good day, everyone, and welcome to another edition of let's Be Diverse. I am your host, Andrew Stout. This episode is dedicated to all my loved ones who supported me through this journey. Those who have left us will always be in our hearts and will never be forgotten. Today our topic is upskilling. I talk a lot about this with people, and one of the things I like to talk about is leadership and always upskilling. The moment that I feel that we stop upskilling or we stop learning, I find that that's when we get ourselves in trouble. So it's. It was something that I wanted to delve into today, and I'm super happy to have as my guest today Kendra Johnson. Welcome to the show, Kendra. I am super honored and. And appreciate you taking the time to chat with us today. [00:00:56] Speaker A: Thank you so much, Andrew. And the honor is all mine to be here. Very excited to. To speak about a topic that's close to my heart as well. [00:01:04] Speaker B: Well, we are excited, for sure. How are things with you? What's new? What's going on? Give us the tea. Give us the deets. Give us it all. What's going on? [00:01:13] Speaker A: Yeah. Ooh. Loaded question to start off the show. Love it. Things are great. You know, I just got back from six weeks in Europe, so. So I'm feeling refreshed and ready to jump into the fall season, which I. I actually heard somebody say is kind of like the harvest season, both obviously seasonally and in business. So it's shaping up to be a busy fall. People are eager to get out there and learn. And so it's. It's a really exciting time, actually. In business right now. [00:01:42] Speaker B: It sure is. I was telling somebody. I was talking about this thought at the beginning of one of my tapings the other day, and I was saying that September seems to be like. We all know that December and January is like the start of the new year, but I've started. As I've gotten older, I've started to feel that September is kind of like the new year for. For me and my thoughts because I'm already preparing for the next year. So it's like we. We go through our sprint, you know, January, February, March. We get through our summer. Summer's kind of a little bit more rel. Rejuvenating. We're taking it easy. Like you said, you were away in Europe for six weeks, and then you get back at September, and it's like, okay, everything is new. Everything's back to normal. How are we going to close out the rest of the year? And you're kind of making plans for that and also making plans for the new year. So it's, it's kind of got that mindset or starting to have that mindset for me. [00:02:41] Speaker A: Yeah, I, I'm right there with you. And you know, you go through your closet, you find your favorite outfit, you get the, the first day of school jitters, which is also excitement. And I think there's something really beautiful about that. The leaves change, so it's kind of a shedding and a rejuvenation. I think it should be the new start of the year. [00:03:01] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. For sure. Well, I'm glad to hear that things are going well and I know we talked off air about your trip. So I am super happy that you got, you got to do that and get away. And I know that you're the things that you do. You're a very busy lady. So for you to get away for six weeks and, and not have to worry about anything. Business. Guys, I know that you did do see some posts from you and I know I did get some messages from you while you're away. But yes, all in all, I look sounds like you had a really good time and you're able to unwind, which was super, super perfect. [00:03:36] Speaker A: It was, yeah. And you know what? I have a fantastic team and we have trust. They have capabilities beyond, you know, what I could ever imagine. So I think that's. That was really key in allowing me to just step away, knowing that everything was handled while I was gone. So I couldn't ask for anything more. [00:03:54] Speaker B: No, absolutely not. So we're gonna get into this conversation, but before we do, I always have a fun, thought provoking question to ask my guests to get things going. Are you ready for yours today, Kendra? [00:04:07] Speaker A: I think so. [00:04:11] Speaker B: So your question is, if you were setting off to Mars, I could take only one luxury item with you. What would it be and why o. [00:04:23] Speaker A: Setting off to Mars? Okay, you know what? That's not something that I frequently consider. So this is going to take me just a second to think about. [00:04:34] Speaker B: That's okay. [00:04:35] Speaker A: One luxury item that I could bring with me, I think big. Oh, my goodness. This is really tough, I would say. I mean, obviously the basics would be covered for survival, but the one thing that I can't live without is music. So I would bring a speaker. I know that sounds. But I find that, that if you have music, you can get through anything. You can work harder. The trip's obviously long. So you need some music to pass the time. You can podcasts, of course. Yes, yes, I would say speaker or my, my headphones would be what I would bring as my, my luxury item. [00:05:19] Speaker B: Great answer. I think that's awesome. It was not something that I would have expected that you would have come up with. So you kind of a little bit surprised me. But that's okay. That's good. I like surprises. But yes, I love that answer. I think it's. It's kind of one of the things I've kind of started to kind of do. I am a someone that likes to kind of unwind and, and watch a little bit of tv, but when I do go to bed, I usually, I've started to kind of listen to some stuff on my phone, just kind of open it up on my phone, put it on my nightstand beside my bed and I just lay there, close my eyes and just listen. And it's either music or you mentioned podcasts or what have you speaks at TED talks. Whatever I can find that's of interest to me. That's usually. And it just relaxes me and just kind of unwinds me through the day. Sometimes I even fall asleep to them. So which is. Which, which, which is I have to kind of go back and listen to them because I'm like, oh, I think I don't remember listening to it all, so. But it happens. It happens. Well, pretty cool. Thanks so much for having fun with me. Why don't we start off with you telling us a little about yourself and your why, of course. [00:06:33] Speaker A: So this question is easier to answer than my trip to Mars. So as you said, we're talking today about a topic that's really near and dear to my heart. I founded the Vend Group, which is a training and development company about six and a half years ago. And our focus is on specifically training and development across organizations in order to make them more collaborative. And we do this by really strengthening their mid level leaders. And I find that that's a band that causes a great ripple outwards. So we focus on things like self awareness, soft skill based leadership, communication, strengthening communication pathways and you know, that's the how, I would say, but the why is something that I'm lucky enough to get to enjoy and be part of every single day. And the why is really to help humans connect first and foremost and to be more collaborative rather than, let's call it managed every single day at work. But how do we foster engagement? How do we foster collaboration so that no matter what level you're at no matter what department you're in, your organization is clicking along and working like a well oiled machine. And that can only happen if the humans within your organization are collaborating effectively. Obviously there are many things at play. We can talk about process and task and all of the mechanics of working together. But for me, the why really comes down to sharing perspectives, to identifying strengths within our teams, most of which are untapped and uncovered. So we bring those, you know, bubble them up to the surface so that everybody feels like an equal contributor and ultimately where we can contribute or we can consider both the individual and the task. And that allows organizations to achieve their goals quicker, but also for individuals to feel like their contributions matter and they're showing up to work fulfilled every single day. [00:08:37] Speaker B: Wow. My, you, you just filled my cup of everything that you said there. So I'm huge. So one of the two of the things that I would say are super important me are rapport building and collaborating. I. Those are two important things. I know listeners have heard me say this a gazillion times, but I'm so proud of talking about those two things because I think they are super important. So I, I think when you do get that collaboration, you do, you just get that connection with collaborating and rapport building. And when you get that connection and you get that engagement and when you get that engagement, then you have the full, you have the everybody involved get their full attention and they're giving all their full self into everything. So it just, everything just, you know, with those two things, I think everything just falls into place. [00:09:33] Speaker A: I agree, I agree. And then you can put more onus and focus on, you know, the, the step by step, the mechanics, the things that, that those who control budgets want to hear, productivity, roi, et cetera, et cetera. But if, if people aren't fulfilled and you're not getting the most out of them because they're disengaged, then you're not going to see any of those returns. [00:09:53] Speaker B: Right, right. So listen, I love to hear your story. Thank you so much for sharing that. Our goal to our topic today is upskilling. So what I want to know from you is what is the goal of upskilling in your, in your mind and why is it so important in your mind? [00:10:12] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think I have a bit of a different, a different view than some or different definition, let's say. So in my opinion the goal is ultimately to retain our team members through upskilling, but also to allocate our resources effectively. And I use the term resources. And in the training we do, we talk about resources often and you know, a wise man who is my fiance and in our conversations about the work that we do once said to me that strategy is simply the allocation of resources. And I think that that's what upskilling allows us to do. It allows us to be more strategic with the resources that we have available within an organization, while also highlighting the strengths, the interests and also the contributions of our team members. So it allows us to really utilize the resources we have available, identify the gaps and solve for those gaps by bringing in additional resources. But ultimately, you know, we're making the best use of the resources that we have and we're allowing team members to step into the light and to identify and put their hand up and say, hey, this is a strength that I have and I'd like to learn more about it. So we're bringing more people to the table in ways that we might not have thought of before. [00:11:35] Speaker B: I just love everything you said there. I think when we do that, there's a lot of people, I mean, let's face it, there's a lot of people out there that just don't want it. They, they know stuff, but they just don't want to say anything because they feel like they're, they're, they're, they're not going to be seen, heard, valued or understood. So they're not going to say anything. They just keep there, they just sit there. They're, they're, they're just basically bystanders. They just go through the flow. They don't say anything. So when you do do stuff like that, I feel like, yes, then people are more willing to learn, they're more willing to get involved. And I think also too, what that means when you are making it a goal is that people are, they're thinking, they're thinking, wow, like I could probably go far. This, this company really believes in me. So you just get that full buy in is kind of where I'm kind of leading to, which is, which is super important. [00:12:37] Speaker A: Absolutely. And you know, the number of clients that in training, I can see, maybe they're a little withdrawn. And when we get into a one on one or perhaps through the training, as certain, you know, certain topics are introduced, they say, I just don't feel like I'm being used to my full potential, so that's why I'm disengaged. And then we say, well, what do you think you're good at? Or that, you know, through conversation and through our training that becomes apparent and all of a sudden they're a new person and they're moving laterally in the organization or they're taking on new responsibilities. And it's being led by them. Not necessarily, you know, they're not being pushed. So they've already got by because they're the ones leading the charge there. [00:13:22] Speaker B: And it's their decision too. Right? So they are, because it's their decision, because it's their thought, it's something that they want to do. Then again, they will be engaged. I did a, a taping of a podcast which will come out in the near future, and it was about dry promotion, which is basically an organization giving somebody a task, but there's no reward or no raise for it. They're just giving them that extra work, but there's nothing, there's no benefits from it, but that just is something that is given to them and they have to make a decision on whether they want to do that or not. But it's not their decision. Where here you're upskilling, you're like, hey, I want to, I want to make myself better. This is, you know, I see that this is done in the organization. I feel like I could do that, but I need to upskill a bit. So let's do it. Let's, you know, what do I, or what do I need to do or what skills do I need? And you mentioned one on one, this is, you know, stuff that you can speak about. You know, I feel like, you know, review process can change a little bit. A lot of times we hear that question, you know, you know, where do you see yourself in the next five years? I kind of like, it's kind of very broad, that question. So I mean, I kind of would like to maybe rephrase it into like, you know, in the next, you know, you know, we value you as an employee in our organization and we see you here long term. Where, you know, where do you see yourself within the organization in the next five years or what can we do in the next five years or the next six months to help you to get there? What can I do as a manager to help you to get there? And that just kind of gives that feeling of that person to say, hey, I'm not just a number. And they actually see me here long term. They see me part of the picture, they see me part of the solution. That is huge. [00:15:16] Speaker A: I couldn't agree more. And I think that in those one on ones, they're so, so important. And even to get more granular with those questions, one that I love to ask because I find sometimes too employees in an organization, if they don't have the full picture of start to finish, how the process works, they don't know what they don't know and they don't know where they can go. So if that's the case, sometimes I like to get even more granular and say, what's the best part of your job? What are the tasks that you don't love? What part of the business would you like to learn more about? And when they say, you know, I'd like to learn more about marketing or I want to learn more about how the production of X, Y and Z works, well, then have them shadow, see if that's something that they might be good at. And you know, I think a lot of times managers are scared to lose their best employees to another department. But having somebody stay within the organization is better than having them completely leave and having to hire for to new people, right? So give people the opportunity to explore. And even if it's not something that they choose to pursue, that additional knowledge only helps strengthen their position. Because now you've created that, that bridge which breaks down silos, as we know. So I think to your point, having those conversations and asking those questions are so, so important just to learn more about the individual. [00:16:38] Speaker B: They certainly are. So I think we kind of talked a little bit, but I want to kind of delve into this deeper because I really feel that leaders and organ organizations struggle with this. And that's when it comes to upskilling, we want to get that buy in. So how will a buy in by the employees be gained? So how do we as leaders, how do we as organizations get people other than these conversations, how do we get people to buy into it so that they are willing to do it and understand the importance of it? [00:17:11] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think it's interesting because when, when clients approach us about upskilling, I see it being led from two sides. So it's either employer led and they're saying, we've identified these gaps on behalf of our team and this is what we think we need to do. Or they're saying our team, our leaders, our frontline employees are coming to us saying they need these skills in order to be more successful. But what I notice sometimes is that it's one or the other and rarely is that a two way conversation and buy in happens. When you say, okay, let's use the employer, for example, the employer says, listen, we've identified these gaps. We need to Upskill. Well, has that conversation then gone to the leaders? Has that conversation gone to the frontline employees to say, we've recognized that this is something we need to focus on. How do you feel, what do you feel that your competency level is? What specifically do we need to upskill within the realm of, I don't know, let's use SEO for example. Right. So I think that getting that buy in is being inclusive, is having those individuals who will be upskilled as part of the discussion. So that not only do they feel like they're included in making the decision, which ultimately, as you said, gets buy in a lot quicker because it is their decision. [00:18:33] Speaker B: Right. [00:18:34] Speaker A: But it also gives really important information to make sure that the organization isn't wasting their resources on upskilling or training that isn't going to see the same kind of stickiness or the return that they're looking for? [00:18:49] Speaker B: Yeah, because I mean, I could see like you can pick training, all kinds of training that you want. Is it like the training that sometimes I see organizations, sometimes they offer training, but it's not really useful, beneficial, it's not going to help them develop or help their employees be a little bit more innovative and creative. So, you know, you know, like, why not, you know, ask them, say, hey, you know, like what, you know, what are some things that you can, you know, that you'd be interested in, in learning or, or upskilling. And then, and not just one, like you're talking to, you know, several employees and you're comprising a list and from there then you are developing your upskilling or do you know what direction to go? Because these are things that are, people are, are saying that they want. So we, we all want things that we want. We don't want things that we don't want. [00:19:44] Speaker A: Right, exactly. And you know, I will say one caveat to this is that there are some, sometimes the non negotiable upskillings that need to happen, like the technical skills, you need those to stay relevant. And I've heard of employers saying, you know, we're getting pushback and I think sometimes the why isn't properly communicated. We're not asking you to upskill, otherwise you're, you're being replaced. I see this a lot with AI and the fear that comes with AI and upskilling there. But we're making your job more efficient when you learn these skills. We're helping you move forward so that we as a business can stay relevant, which means more money, which means more clients, etc. Etc. So take your team members down the line and explain the, the big vision rather than just we're upskilling. You need to do this because we said so. [00:20:33] Speaker B: Right. [00:20:34] Speaker A: Show them how it impacts their job, whether it's making their lives easier, whether it's to move into a new market. How are they contributing to the success of the business by upskilling? Maybe if they don't want to. [00:20:47] Speaker B: Right? It's that tone. It's all about that tone, Kendra. So when you were getting absolutely. When you're getting a negative response or you're getting like an, you know, an email that's written in like bold in red or you're getting these notes put sent to you or you're having these conversations and you know, you're being told these things that, and you just feel like you are being scolded. You're gonna lose the, the inter. The interest of everybody buying in and you know, an email like that, I mean, I could tell you that I could probably say 90 of people don't usually read all the whole of those emails. They just see it, the bold and they just like, oh, whatever. And they just go through it because it's like, well, why do I want to read that? Because I'm already annoyed seeing that. Then if I read it, I'm going to be even more annoyed and flustered. So it's just that tone, and you mentioned it before, communicating and, and, and having a real vulnerable answer to why it's, it's, it's being done and, and why it's going to benefit, you know, not just a team, but you as an individual. Again, like I said before, because we see you, you know, as a future in the organization. So, you know, saying key words there is going to definitely, I agree with you. Get people involved and interested. For sure. [00:22:19] Speaker A: Absolutely. Absolutely. You're invited is one of the best keywords. You're invited to this training. It's only offered once. Right. So rather than you must take this training, you're invited to take this training as a select group. It must be completed and then you can throw in the must later, but it needs to be completed by the state. So it's all about semantics, if you will, and just shifting the words around a little bit. But it does, it does go a long way. [00:22:46] Speaker B: Right? For sure. So I'm interested in your thoughts here. And this is something that you probably see. So I want to know, are there any negatives or barriers to upskilling? [00:22:57] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think that I don't, I wouldn't say that there are negatives to upskilling itself. I would say that there are negatives and barriers to the process of introducing upskilling and to upskilling itself. So a couple of things just off the top of my head is when it's not introduced properly or when the upskilling is done improperly, and we covered that a little bit earlier. So when there's just a blanket course or blanket upskilling and it doesn't really take into consideration the needs of that particular team or department or group of people years, I would say that's the first. The second is when it isn't measured. So people like to see, obviously they can feel the effectiveness of a training themselves. But stakeholders love to see how effective a training is or an upskilling is. And the team members also like to hear that it's working and that it's noticed. So the time, the effort that they're investing is not being noticed by their peers, by their team members and by their leaders. If they go through a training and nobody says anything, well, you've put in all this work in this time when they could have actually just been doing their tasks. So when it's not being noticed that, you know, there is an effort to upskill, I think that's a big miss and can be a negative. We talked about the why. I think when it comes to upskilling, we often forget that there is a degree of change management that needs to be considered. It's a change because we're upskilling to do X, Y and Z, which for some people can be scary. Does that mean my job is going to be obsolete? Does that mean I'm no longer relevant at the level I'm at now? So we need to take into consideration that there is a degree of change management when it comes to introducing, rolling out and closing out the upskilling process. And then I would just say making sure that the objectives are aligned between stakeholders and the end user, the participants, and that everybody's aware of. Here's what we're looking to achieve out of this. And we're going to make sure that we continue to action this moving forward and we see those changes. When it comes to upskilling, I think it's. It's wonderful. And you said this at the very beginning. When you're not learning, it's. I'm paraphrasing here. Apologies, Andrew, but you know, you're stagnant when you're not learning. [00:25:29] Speaker B: Oh, for sure. [00:25:30] Speaker A: I think upskilling, we do it every day, right we learn, we read a book, we learn something, we listen to a podcast, we learn something. So it's already a micro part of our day. It's just how we choose to do it in a strategic way in an organization really, really makes an impact on whether it is, it's effective or not. [00:25:50] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I agree to 100. I, I don't really see negatives. The only thing I could see as far as barriers is the time. So if we're company is developing upskilling courses or courses are making courses available and the employee doesn't, how the employees don't have the time to do it during the day and they're saying to the employees, well, you can always do it at night. And a lot of people would say, well, why would I want to do it at night? I'm not getting paid to do it at night and I'm spending time with my family and my kids in the evening. So no, I don't want to be doing this in the evening. So I think we have to, you know, they would have to make sure that, you know, employees are, are setting aside time or that, you know, it is, you know, known that. Okay, it's okay that you set aside time during the day to do these courses. [00:26:53] Speaker A: Absolutely. That would be a huge red flag for me if, if the employer says, well, you can just do it in the evening. I think that, you know, if it's something that is important to the organization, it needs to, to be a priority. And a priority that's articulated from whoever the stakeholder is that's introducing this, this upskilling. You know, if it's, if it's three days a week for seven weeks, that might be a little intense. And that's not practical. So the practicality element needs to be there. And that's why I think micro learning is so, is becoming so much more relevant with upskilling as well, so that we can have those bite sized pieces. [00:27:31] Speaker B: Yep, I agree with you 100%. If, if someone said to me that I had to do stuff, something in the evening, again, it's not my choice. If it was my choice. And I said, okay, I'll, I don't have anything to do on Tuesday evening. So I'm gonna, you know, after supper, I'll, I'll take an hour and I'll do, I'll do that course. That's, that's me. That's on me. That onus is on me. But when I'm being told that I have to do something on my own time, that I'm not getting paid for. I'm. You're probably not gonna. We're talking about our focus, I think or a big thing has been buy in in this conversation. And you wouldn't get that buy in from it from a lot of people. And in that for sure, not for sure. So. So on the ground floor, a lot of conversations that I'm having with people is that when companies are, or you know, when they're taught designing upskilling, order design, making training available for, for, for employees, they're, they're not designing it properly or they're not listening to, they're not thinking what is important or what's going to benefit them in the long run. So from your experience or what you're hearing, employees, what mistakes are they or what are the common things that they're employers are doing when they're developing the training and upskilling? Like what are you seeing on your side? [00:29:00] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that. And forgive the bias answer here for sure. I do think that one of the mistakes I'm seeing is, is when employers are trying to do it all themselves. [00:29:14] Speaker B: Right. [00:29:14] Speaker A: And I think this comes down to the company culture. I would say that even organizations that have the highest degree of trust within their teams sometimes don't always have an objective eye on the gaps. And maybe the conversations aren't as transparent or they're viewed through a singular lens. And that's no fault of anybody's. We're humans. That's what happens. So I always love when an organization, organization says, listen, we're bringing you in and we always have one on ones with every participant to say everybody's got a bit of a different perspective. Are your assumptions of what needs to be upskilled on correct. Based on the group that we're going to be interviewing? [00:30:00] Speaker B: Right. [00:30:00] Speaker A: And a lot of the times, yes, they're about 75 to 95% correct. But there are always a couple other competencies that come forward that the participants are saying, well, no, I actually need help with this. And that changes the trajectory of any kind of upskilling. So I'd say that's the first is just trying to do it all themselves. Especially when employers and specifically a lot of HR leaders who are leading these initiatives and doing a fantastic job, but are also putting on that hat on top of all of the other hats that they wear in their department. It can be a lot. And so to have a partner come in and help is always beneficial. We spoke a little bit about blanketing the training, so I think that's A major miss when we're not, you know, speaking with our team members. And the other one that I've, I've really recognized because we live or we're in a very interesting time in workplace dynamics, where we have four generations in the workplace, we have global workforces, and we have so many different perspectives and expectations that exist in one ecosystem. And when it comes to upskilling, I see that sometimes there isn't a recognition of the different experience levels that exist within a training group. [00:31:22] Speaker B: Right. [00:31:23] Speaker A: So those who are maybe a little bit more advanced or have more experience are saying, you know, this is a little elementary for me. Whereas somebody's saying like, hey, what's eq? I've never heard of this before. Yeah, right. So it's also assessing where is everybody at? And as learning and development providers, we ask that question as well because that helps us gauge what do these breakout rooms need to look like? How do we kind of find something that satisfies an entire group of differing experience levels? Or do we need to go back to the drawing board and say we need a basic, an intermediate, and an advanced? So I think that's one of the. In order to make it the most effective so that nobody. Again, it's like, I'd say it's akin to going back to grade school. You know, you had grade three, grade four, or you had the 34 split. [00:32:15] Speaker B: Right. [00:32:16] Speaker A: And everybody always said, I don't want to be in the 34 split no matter what grade you were in, because it was either challenging or it wasn't challenging enough. And I think the same thing, the same premise exists with training and upskilling. [00:32:30] Speaker B: And I'll kind of go a little bit premise here. If we're having individuals coming from, let's say. So when I first started working, I didn't notice this, but now, you know, companies are our world, and companies are becoming so much more diverse that you're getting people from different companies from different countries, and they've learned different stuff and different trainings and upskilled in their countries. And then they come here or they come to Canada and it's like, oh, well, you're, you know, what you learned is not up. You know, it's not good enough. You know, you need to do this. You need to think. So instead of just saying it's not good enough, let's, you know, did we actually take a look and see what they have actually learned, the course that they took to kind of get an idea of what they have? Sure. They may not have known or learned Everything in the training or the upskilling that we, that, that we want. But there are some, a variety of things. And you could say, okay, listen, instead of saying it's not good enough, we could say, you can kind of rephrase and say, hey, listen, you know, I did check out the training that you've done. They're very good. There's a lot of the stuff that we talk about in, in ours, however, there are little snippets of things and new things that are different from the other one. So I think it'll be beneficial for you to do this one as well. And then you'll be able to combine the two and you'll be way ahead of the game from, you know, learning the both. [00:34:21] Speaker A: Absolutely. And there are, you know, there are so many ways you can spin that. And I think because I've, I've seen this in action as well, where someone sits and says, well, I've, I've been to this. I know this. Whether they're from, you know, from Canada or elsewhere, we always see that. And they say, well, then you have a wealth of knowledge to offer your peers. That sounds like. To me. [00:34:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:44] Speaker A: In addition, you know, if it's something that's company specific, these are the expectations of our organization. And that's why we offer a specific training that is tailored to our organization. Because we use certain terminology, we have specific processes. So to your point, it's not about you're not good enough, but it's here, the expectations. So you're aligning with, with our organization and now you're part of the team, and it's more of a cultural thing within the organization. I think that's another way to approach it so that everybody feels included. And again, then they can assist their peers and they can offer and contribute, which is actually one of the greatest things you can do to build community, is allow your team members the opportunity to contribute their knowledge to the rest of the team. And that always feels good when people have the opportunity to do that. [00:35:36] Speaker B: I love when you said, you just said aligned. I just love that because, yeah, you can definitely tell someone, hey, listen, you know, this is our, you know, our companies have these values and, and we're designing these trainings to go around our values. And we, you know, you're part of our organization because, you know, we felt that you align with our values. And by taking this training, you're going to be continually aligned with our values because it's gonna, you know, so just by using that word aligned, it's, it makes Such a huge difference, Kendra. [00:36:10] Speaker A: Absolutely, Absolutely. It's, we have to be strategic in the things that we say and we also have to mean them. I'll put that out there as well. [00:36:19] Speaker B: Well, for sure. Well, for sure. Yeah. You can't just see. I always use the word passion. I talk about passion a lot. So I was telling somebody in a conversation the other day. So when somebody is passionate about what they do, you can actually, and this is a test that I usually, that I do a lot is, especially if I'm having a conversation with somebody over the phone, I will close my eyes for about five seconds and I'll listen to them speak. And if I can feel them smiling while they're talking, then I know that they're passionate about what they do. And when you're passionate about what you do and you love what you do, man, the sky's the limit. [00:37:04] Speaker A: Absolutely. Absolutely. Can you tell I'm smiling right now? [00:37:07] Speaker B: Oh, you've been smiling since the beginning now. So listeners who are listening, Kendra's been smiling since the get go. Even before we started taping. She's been smiling, smiling. And, and that's, that's, that's a, one of the reasons why I connected with her and one of the reasons why I think we've both gotten along so well. And so, yeah, so I, I, I, it's, it's super, it's super important to me. For sure. For sure. In closing, Kendra, what is one takeaway that you want the audience to get from this episode? [00:37:40] Speaker A: Started with a difficult question. Finish with a difficult question. I like your style. I would say the one thing to take away is that upskilling requires careful thought and intentionality. It requires communication and ultimately collaboration across the board to make it effective. It's not just a box tick. It's, you know, when it's done properly and when it's considered and done intentionally, it can build loyalty, it can introduce new skills, it can spark innovation for an organization and really bring out strengths in your team members that you didn't know and perhaps they didn't know they had as well. So I wouldn't, I would urge listeners to not shy away from upskilling, but to get curious about what it could look like, what it could mean, and how they can introduce micro bits of upskilling. If a big upskilling program isn't in the cards, how do you introduce micro upskilling to your team so that they're constantly learning and evolving? And then the big, you know, the big upskilling doesn't seem so ominous, because they've been doing it all along. [00:38:52] Speaker B: I love that, Mike. I mean, if my call to action to this conversation is that when you're upskilling, I feel as a leader, the moment that we decide that we know it all and we've figured it out and we don't need to do anything else, or that we talk that we've been doing whatever we're doing for X amount of years and we don't need to do anything, that's the moment that we're gonna get or find ourselves in trouble. The world is changing. Everything is changing. Our professional lives are changing, our careers are changing, and everything about our careers is changing. So if we are, I love your word, intentional, if we're not intentional, if we are not thinking outside the box on a regular daily basis and willing to take on things that are, that are going to challenge us and help us learn and help us grow not as, as individuals, not just professionally, but personally, then you're gonna find yourself on the dead heat in the back of the crowd, because the rest of the crowd that's doing that is going to advance very, very quickly. And we mentioned ar, we mentioned diversity. Everything is changing, and we need to find ways to continue to grow as individuals. [00:40:15] Speaker A: Absolutely. Absolutely. One, one skill at a time, right? [00:40:19] Speaker B: Absolutely. Absolutely. Listen, Kendra, I want to take the time to thank you for coming on today. You were a sensational individual. I love listening to you speak. I've heard you speak so many times. You're, you speak so clear and concise. And I mentioned the word passion. You have such passion for, for everything you do and, and everything that you say. You could just hear it in your voice, and I could just see why people just kind of resonate to you and want to get involved with you and work with you. It was, it the same thing happened to me when, at the first time we connected, I, I, I felt like I just resonated with you, and I just wanted to, I just wanted, I just wanted more, and that's, that's all you can ask for. So, again, thank you so much for your time today, and I really appreciate you and, and all you do. [00:41:09] Speaker A: Thank you so much. It's been an honor. And, you know, I, I love the podcast, and I'm so thrilled to be here and be chatting with you. So thank you for the opportunity. Opportunity. [00:41:20] Speaker B: You're very welcome. On behalf of myself and my guest Kendra, I'd like to thank you all for listening today. Until next time, we remember that if we all work together, we can accomplish. [00:41:31] Speaker A: Anything you have been listening to. Let's Be Diverse with Andrew Stout to stay up to date with future content, hit subscribe. [00:41:45] Speaker B: RA.