Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Opinions expressed in this episode are personal. They do not necessarily reflect the views of this streaming platform.
[00:00:08] Speaker B: Good day, everyone, and welcome to another edition of let's Be Diverse. I am your host, Andrew Stout. This episode is dedicated to all my loved ones who supported me through this journey. Those who have left us will always be in our hearts and will never be forgotten in our careers. We recognize sometimes that even in the best workplaces, there are situations where stress, burnout and other health issues become a large part of our personal and professional lives. One way we can to help in these areas is to create boundaries. And that is what we're going to be discussing today with my very special guest, Sarah Malone. Sarah, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for joining us today.
[00:00:45] Speaker A: Hi, Andrew. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited for our conversation today.
[00:00:50] Speaker B: Well, thank you so much again for coming. How are things with you? What's going on in your world? Give us the tea, the deets, give us it all. What's going on?
[00:00:58] Speaker A: A lot of things to share, Andrew. I feel like my life is a movie. There's always a lot happening.
Yeah. You know, right now I'm actually currently debuting on a national reality TV series.
I just launched my book, Affirmations for a Peaceful Life. And you know, other than those kind of business endeavor situations, I have an upcoming retreat that I'm just gearing up for, for in March in Costa Rica and taking care of my little homestead out here in a small town in Arizona and, you know, keeping my family afloat.
[00:01:37] Speaker B: Wow. So I would say that that's quite a bit going on there. First of all, the reality TV show, I'm sure that's not something that's quick. I'm sure there's a lot of work that goes into it. A book would be something that I would definitely love to do at some point in my life before I kick the curb here. At some point I would love to do something like that. That and public speaking are two things that I would, would be if I had a lifelong dream. Those are two things I would love to do. And, and, and then of course, family, kids. My wife always jokes around that we have our dog and myself. So she always says we have, she has two kids. So I'm sure you. So you have, I'm sure you have a few kids at your house as well.
[00:02:16] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, we have chickens, turkeys, goats, dogs, a cat and then of course, my partner. So, yeah, we've got, we've got our hands full. But yeah, lots going on. And I, I Like it that way.
[00:02:31] Speaker B: Well, that's it. It keeps us out of trouble sometimes, right?
[00:02:34] Speaker A: Yeah, I'd rather have purposeful things happening in my life.
[00:02:38] Speaker B: Yeah. Keeps the mind going, keeps the mind fresh, and we're always thinking, so it kind of helps us to be creative and innovative. So I love that.
[00:02:46] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:02:47] Speaker B: Well, thanks so much for sharing that with us. I love to hear that things are going well. Before we get into the meat and bones of this podcast, I always have a fun, thought provoking question for my guest to get things going. Are you ready for yours today?
[00:03:04] Speaker A: I'm ready, Andrew. Give it to me.
[00:03:05] Speaker B: Oh, okay. So your question today is, if you were a kitchen appliance or office supply machine, which one would you be and why?
[00:03:20] Speaker A: Oh, okay. I have a sassy answer for you.
[00:03:27] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:03:28] Speaker A: I would be a stove because I heat things up.
[00:03:34] Speaker B: Well, there you go.
[00:03:36] Speaker A: That was. That was. I thought it was gonna be harder.
[00:03:40] Speaker B: No, that you did. You did very good.
[00:03:42] Speaker A: Pretty good.
[00:03:43] Speaker B: That's awesome. That is a very good answer. Was not one that I was expecting. I'm not expecting it so quickly, but wow, that's pretty good. I appreciate that. And from the conversations that I've had, you always have something on the go. And I've listened to quite a few of your podcast episodes as well. So that when you say heat things up, that definitely.
[00:04:06] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:04:06] Speaker B: Fits you to a T for sure.
[00:04:08] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Thank you. I like to do that. I like to do that around me. Me.
[00:04:13] Speaker B: I appreciate. I appreciate that. Well, thanks for having fun with me. Why don't we start off with you telling us a little bit about yourself and of course, your. Why?
[00:04:22] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I've been in the kind of healing and spiritual coaching therapeutic space for about 10 years now. I started off as a fitness and lifestyle coach, helping people just like, achieve more of a physical goal. But it quickly became a theme in my work that I was helping people in a much deeper level. The mental, emotional aspect, because, you know, we can never do one thing in isolation, especially when it comes to the physical. There's always something mental or emotional happening there as well. And so my. My work quickly expanded into, you know, masterminds. I created my own courses just from scratch because I wanted to serve my clients more. So I have, you know, courses and masterminds, and then I developed this retreat program and. And from there I started just following every step of the way. So it led to, you know, leading meditations and sound healings and becoming a hypnotherapist and a spiritual coach and then other modalities along the way ifs therapy. So I've kind of just followed this route of total holistic spiritual healing and helping people to discover their true self.
My why for this I think is rooted from a very young age in me. You know, I have experienced my own trauma from a very early age and have really struggled to find like my place. I felt very unique and different in the world and like I was here to do something really big and. And I struggled to find a place and feel like I was fitting in in the world and.
And so my kind of like gut wrenching, you know. You know, we all have those things that really keep us up at night. We really hate about the world and we want to help solve mine is people feeling like they're in chains or not being able to step into who they were created to be in all of that power and magic and all these things. So finding their purpose. So my why is really, you know, I want to help people free themselves from emotional pain so that they can step into their true selves as well.
[00:06:48] Speaker B: So much to pack in here. So first off, I just love that you were, you know, the spiritual and the. If you went from spiritual from fitness coach and you, I think you kind of adapted as time went on because like you said, you felt like there was a need. And I'm sure because I talk to a lot of people as well and I feel like there's a lot of people you mentioned, people who feel like they're in trauma or they feel like they're in chains or they feel like they can't get out of this rabbit hole and there's so many people out there like that. And, and I'm sure you notice that as you're going, yes, we can get people healthy and stuff like that. But you know, it this. There's one thing that have a healthy body, but we also have to have a healthy mind as well. That helps us in our personal lives and it helps us professional lives as well. And I just love the fact that you are.
We're going to talk a little bit about diversity a little bit later. But you know, you're. You talked about your trauma and what that kind of lets me think about or I think about quite often is especially in a workplace setting, we just never know what the person sitting next to us is going through or has gone through. And we just have to understand, I think if we have a little bit more understanding of what that person could possibly be going through. Yeah, I think the workplace would be a lot.
It would be a Much safer workplace environment for everyone if we just allowed ourselves to. I don't think we have to, really.
We can't fully understand because we're not going to know everything, but if we can just have a little bit of sympathy and compassion for people, I think it would definitely help out a lot.
[00:08:36] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think we should all operate under the assumption that everybody has their own sets of traumas and hurts underneath, and that's what leads them to expressing themselves the way that they are expressing themselves. So, number one, to not take anything personally in that regard. And you could always lead with empathy and compassion and understanding. But the other side of that, like we talked about with boundaries, is it's. It's one thing to say I understand that everyone has gone through their own set of experiences. However, that doesn't mean that you get a free pass to treat me however you want to because of that, if that makes sense.
[00:09:13] Speaker B: It totally makes sense. So I have a little bit of a. I wouldn't say it's a mantra, but it's something that I say to people quite often, and that is, I will never tell you how you should feel, because I can't. I feel like I can't. I feel like I can tell myself. I can deal with myself, how I think I could feel. But I'm never going to tell you, for example, Sarah, how you should feel, because I think that's not fair. And as long as I think two people respect each other on that front, I think. I think again, things will go a lot easier. For sure.
[00:09:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, definitely.
[00:09:57] Speaker B: So let's get into the meat and bones of this. So today we're talking about boundaries, like you mentioned. My question to you is how does someone respectfully set boundaries? And we're going to talk in the workplace today. So how do they do that in the workplace?
[00:10:10] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it depends on the dynamic. Right. If it's employee to, you know, co worker to coworker, co worker to employee to boss.
But. But all of it starts with, you know, an acknowledgment of respect for the other person and yourself as well. I think that sometimes it's hard to set boundaries, especially with a superior, because you're afraid of any consequences or they'll, you know, you'll be hurt as far as financially or as far as opportunities in the workplace. But everybody does. Just because we're in the workplace doesn't mean that our humanity is any less right. So these boundaries are essential. So I think it starts with, you know, this formula of saying, why this boundary is important. Like, I, I teach my clients to approach workplace situations like this. Hey, I really love working here.
And so that is why I want to bring to your attention this thing that's happening, because it's not okay with me or whatever that may be. And if I'm going to continue enjoying loving my work here, you know, this is something that is important for me to be addressed. So I think that we, we. We start by explaining from our heart, number one, how or why this is important to address, because we actually do value our work here and we want to enjoy it. And if you can hear my cat meowing back there, cat is joining in the conversation for a good podcast. Y.
And then number two, just stating your boundary very clearly. Right. I think that a lot of times we got. We try to. We try to add too much fluff to it. So it's like, be very clear, don't be rude, but speak from a place of love and, and care, because the more you can do that, the more opportunity you give whoever you're setting the boundary with, the opportunities to actually uphold their end.
[00:12:10] Speaker B: I love that. Clear with care and compassion.
[00:12:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:14] Speaker B: It's all about communication. And communication is key in this area for sure. And I think I agree with you 100. If, if we do that, I think, you know, is it going to be perfect every time?
Absolutely not. But I think majority of the time, I think it's going to be a lot better. And you mentioned it depends on the individual. Some individuals will be open to having these conversations, some are not. It just depends on the person. So, yeah, I think you have to try it.
[00:12:44] Speaker A: Exactly. And the other thing I would say is do it early and do it often, because if somebody is violating your boundaries, especially in, you know, in a severe type of way, and you stay quiet for a period of time, and then you decide to speak up one time, I think the best thing to do is to really approach that crossing of your boundary early on, just right away, because that way you save yourselves and them a lot of headache.
[00:13:13] Speaker B: Absolutely. So why do you think people.
Why do you think people in the workplace don't like boundaries?
In a workplace or when someone is sending. Setting the boundaries, why do you think. Why do you think co workers are so against it or negative to it or. Or push back on that?
[00:13:34] Speaker A: Well, I think boundaries are uncomfortable. Right. I think boundaries, setting them and getting them placed on us is uncomfortable, and it makes us feel insecure, like maybe we did something wrong. And I don't think everyone's very used to you know, having boundaries set to them. And I definitely don't think people are used to setting their own boundaries.
So I think this comes down to a lack of identity insecurity. Like, if somebody sets a boundary on me, I say, okay, that's all right, fine, because you're. You're individual person and I'm into my individual person. You have every right to think that. Right. But if we have some sort of sense of entitlement or maybe we're insecure about ourselves and somebody places a boundary, we may take that personally and think like they're trying to be mean to us or hold us back or we did something wrong and it becomes way too personal. And I think that's the majority of why people don't like boundaries.
People don't like hearing no.
[00:14:41] Speaker B: Oh, for sure, Absolutely.
I agree with you 100 here as far as the. The lack of. Yes. You know, lack of identity and security.
Like you just said, people don't like to hear a word I have. I say to myself or I say to people. I'm not afraid to say the word no and hear the word no, but I feel like I could, you know, we. I talked about earlier about saying to people, I will never tell somebody how they should feel. I know I could tell you, Sarah, you know, a. I, I don't like, you know, the other day we had a conversation and I didn't like what was said or how you. How you treated me there. And, you know, there's two ways. There's two ways that you could do it. So you could say, you know, oh, Andrew, I'm so, you know, I, I apologize for that. You know, let's talk about it, you know, and so I can understand a little bit better what I did. So I won't do that next time. Or you can say, well, I didn't do that.
[00:15:40] Speaker A: Yeah, what do you mean?
[00:15:41] Speaker B: I did that. So you're almost like in a defense mechanism, which in turn is telling intel, is telling me that you didn't. That you don't believe that you did it, and you're telling me how I should feel about it. So I think that's the two instances there that I. That I could definitely see or I have seen quite a bit.
[00:16:02] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. I think a gut reaction when. When a conversation like that is brought up is to defend and deny.
No, that's not what I said. I didn't mean that. Or. No, no, you're taking it the wrong way. Right. So it's this defensive. Because it all comes back to, again, this kind of ego concept of I must defend myself because they're, they're accusing me of something and I didn't do anything wrong. Underneath all of it is this, this kind of wound of I want what I want, I, I want it how I want it. And when people put boundaries on me, that changes what I think I'm getting or what I wanted. Does that make sense? Like, I had this, I had this vision, I have this blueprint of what I want from you, how I want you to treat me, how I get to treat you. And I wanted to just be able to do what I want to do. When you place boundaries on me, you're saying, no, you can't act like that. And I'm saying like, that's how I want it to be. Right. Like, and ironically, I don't think at the core people actually want to be able to do that. Like, people don't want to just want what they want to be able to run amok, but they think they do, their ego thinks they do. And so they develop these kind of defensive protective mechanisms against anybody telling them otherwise. And when in reality it's like, yeah, that probably would be better for both of of us. Right. And I think it's important too, when you mentioned, I just want to throw this out there, the conversation, if you are the one setting the boundary, right. The conversation should be very non accusatory based. Right. We had a conversation the other day, you and I, Andrew, and something was said and it rubbed me the wrong way or it hurt my feelings in this way. And I wanted to share that with you because, you know, I don't want to feel anything negative towards you, but I want to understand or I want you to know that that hurt my feelings.
You know, we should stay away from accusatory statements of I'm not going to let you do that to me, or you shouldn't be talking to me that way, or when you said this, you hurt my feelings because I don't think it's anyone's intention to hurt us or to say something or do something that is misaligned with, you know, our boundaries. But if it does happen, and it does happen, then it's our responsibility to say, hey, you know, that wasn't cool with me. I know you didn't mean it that way, or I hope you didn't mean it that way, but here's how I took it and yeah, here's what I need.
[00:18:39] Speaker B: Yep, it's the, that understanding that like you said, the communication factor, and you're absolutely right I think if we added in a little bit of like a, you know, it'll. I want to have this conversation with you because, you know, we sit beside each other, work a lot together, and I respect you as a co worker and as a human.
I just want to let you know how I felt.
[00:19:02] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:19:02] Speaker B: You may not, you may not have meant it that way. However, this is how I took it.
[00:19:08] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:19:09] Speaker B: This is how I took it and this is how it came across to me. And I just. As respect for you, I just wanted to let you know how it felt because I didn't want to create any animosity with you further down the road. I want us to have a great working relationship that we can continue to. To work on projects and everything together.
[00:19:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:34] Speaker B: And not have this animosity.
[00:19:35] Speaker A: So, yeah.
[00:19:37] Speaker B: Having that little bit of, you know, compassion and empathy always, you know, most of the time, I would say it works as well.
[00:19:44] Speaker A: Yes, I agree. I agree.
[00:19:47] Speaker B: So how do you think boundaries and diversity intertwine?
[00:19:55] Speaker A: Explain to me what you mean by diversity.
[00:19:59] Speaker B: So when we're talking about diversity, we're talking about. So let's just say there's people that grow up in different cultures. Different.
And they grow up or they live in different cultures and their way of thinking or their way of being as a person, you know, as a workplace professional could be different to yours.
[00:20:24] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:20:24] Speaker B: So we were just talking about, about just the last question. We're talking about boundaries and being uncomfortable. So how would you think that diversity would intertwine with that? Because nowadays we're working with so many different ethnicities in the workplace. We have to understand that a little bit better that, you know, one person might not be. Would be different to the other because of where they were born or where they grew up or. Or the culture that they have.
[00:20:56] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think this is a different layer. Right. Because we need to have immense understanding and again, the word compassion towards. Towards the fact that not everyone has our cultural experience and they're coming into the world. The totally different lens.
Right. Totally different experiences, totally different set of rules for how the world should work and how people should operate and these types of things. And so we, we need to be more open as a culture and, you know, accepting maybe, but more like embracing. Right. Our differences. Because the diversity that we have as a human race is our flavor, it's our color. It's so important to have this diversity and to have these different sex of people.
And so boundaries there, there is going to be a little bit more sensitive in this regard. Right. Because what you may think is appropriate in your culture is totally inappropriate in my culture and vice versa. So.
So again, speaking up for this and having this level of understanding and ability to embrace. Okay, hey, all right, that's cool. Like if that's, you know, I honor the fact that in your culture this is not okay, and this is not okay for you specifically. At the end of the day, again, human to human, right, all cultures aside, we're still humans with a level of, here's what I accept, here's what I don't accept, here's what I, here's how I'm going to be wanting to treat you. Here's how I want, I want to be treated. And underneath all of that is going to be fair. It's going to be fair. I mean, no one's going to be like, I need you to treat me like, you know, unrealistic.
But when it comes to diversity, we really need to be open to listening to these different cultural differences to see how can we as a humanity with different cultures intermingling, how can we collaborate together, how can we work together? And so it kind of comes down to finding our commonalities more than we are focused on our differences and really, really coming together with those. And then we see the boundaries as we're going along, right. If some, some, something happens, then okay, that's all right. You know, we're, we're all human, we make mistakes. But then we need to address that as we go.
[00:23:33] Speaker B: You just said it and when you said commonalities. I think I talk a little bit, a lot about rapport building and I think it would help if you built rapport with more co workers. So maybe instead of sitting and eating lunch with the same person every day, maybe, you know, if there's a table and your friend is not there, you go sit at another table and, and get to talk to people and get to know them and understand them and get to know them. And I think, you know, again, we're never gonna fully understand people, but we've talked a lot about compassion here today, and I think if we understand just a little smidget of someone or how they are, I think it would make stuff so much more easier and life would be so much better in the workplace if we, if we did that, because, yeah, we, we understand them better.
[00:24:34] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think that the leaders of, in the workplace have a role to play in that. You know, there are so many culture, culture and community building activities that they could be doing to help highlight that simple little get, get Togethers where you, like, pair each other up and do some silly, funny activity to try to get to know somebody different and who's different than you. So I think that there's a responsibility in the leadership of companies and in the workplaces to.
To create an environment that is safe and encouraged, to bridge that gap.
[00:25:14] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. I love that. I love that.
So in closing today, what is one takeaway that you'd like our audience to get from this episode?
[00:25:27] Speaker A: You know, we. We talked a lot about just like the kind of a general skeleton of setting boundaries, but I. What I want people to understand is that we all need boundaries in order to be able to operate in any way, really, in this world, right? So the best thing that we can do is to know thyself, know where you start and end and where others start and end, knowing that you are an individual with individual needs, as are others. And the more that you can respect and speak on your own boundaries, the more able you'll be able to be to accept others when they, you know, express their boundaries.
So I, I am going to encourage everybody to just really go on an inner journey, to know yourself really, really well so that you know when and how to speak up about your boundaries. To say, this is. This is okay for me, this is not okay for me, this is a preference, or this is an absolutely, I must have this change and be able to speak Boundaries as a very common language. You know, this should be a common, very common part of our communication with people in any place in the workplace and relationships and family partners. Boundaries should be just. That's part of our language, you know, and so to make that a norm, because then you'll be better able to receive other people's boundaries as well.
[00:27:05] Speaker B: For sure. I think too, when, you know, in the initial orientation, I think, you know, the word boundaries can come up in, in that conversation with the person right in front of them one on one on that first day, and you're going over a whole bunch of stuff, and that's one thing we can say is that, look, we, you know, everybody respects. We want everybody to respect everybody here. And one of the most important things, or one of the things that are very important to this organization and for myself, to this team, is boundaries. And we need to respect each other's boundaries. And this is, like you said, this is why it's great to get to know your co workers so that we can have a cohesive unit and understand each other's boundaries and work together. I know it's a foreign. It's a taboo topic. I know that there's a lot of people that really don't want to bring it up because they're. They're shy or afraid or they just don't want the ramifications of the con. The conversation because they think there's going to be kickback or they're not going to be liked or they're gonna be talked about or what have you. So some people will just hold it in. Even though something's bothering them, they'll just hold it in. And that's not good. So, yeah, I think if we, again, if we say it right from the begin and, and have people understand that, respect that, then I think, you know, like we talked about earlier, these conversations can be had at a respectable level. For sure.
[00:28:37] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I think there's two things that companies can do. Here is, number one, like you said, set that precedent right out, right off the bat, say this is a place for you to speak up for your needs, to advocate for your needs. We expect you to honor and respect other people's boundaries and limitations and their needs. And we expect you to speak up if something is not going well for you because we have your back. Right. So again, that safety built and number two is holding regular meetings where it's like, okay, what's going well? What. What's going wrong? Are there any concerns that need to be brought to the table and creating an open space to. To really talk about that?
[00:29:19] Speaker B: Absolutely. Absolutely. So this has been such a great conversation. My call to action today. I would like anybody who's listening to this or if you have friends who listen to this, like, share and follow this episode and all the episodes that I think this is something that I think is important to everybody, and I think it's a important topic that I think everybody should. Should hear and discuss. I want to take the time to thank you, Sarah, for coming on today. Your growth and strength really inspire me. I want to thank you for your commitment to being emotion emotional, physical and spiritual. And I thank you for showing me, not me, but everyone, how to be the best that they can be. That's what I've learned from you. This is what I've gotten from you since day one. And I'm super honored that you took the time for me today out of your busy schedule. It is an honor to have you today.
[00:30:17] Speaker A: Oh, thank you, Andrew. It's an honor to be with you too. And thank you very much for inviting me onto your show.
[00:30:24] Speaker B: You're very welcome. On behalf of myself and my guest, Sarah I'd like to take the time to thank you all for listening today and until next time. Be safe and remember everyone that if we all work together, we can accomplish accomplish anything you have been listening to.
[00:30:40] Speaker A: Let's be Diverse with Andrew Stout to stay up to date with future content, hit Subscribe.
