Episode Transcript
[00:00:05] Speaker A: Opinions expressed in this episode are personal. They do not necessarily reflect the views of this streaming platform.
[00:00:15] Speaker B: Good day, everyone, and welcome to another edition of let's be diverse. I am your host, Andrew Stout. This episode is dedicated to all my loved ones who supported me through this journey. Throughout our lives, many of us find ourselves trying to connect with others. Human connection has advanced our world from family gatherings to team meetings. But with the rise of digital interactions such as AI, many people have dealt with loneliness. Today, our topic is human connection, and I'm so lucky to have on as my guest today. Jen White with over 20 years of experience, collective memory founder and chief brand Officer Jen White is a collaborative leader who combines the best of art and analysis to guide industry defining brands. Building on her background of fine art and design, Jen's practical and people focused approach builds consensus in complex organizations and helps companies identify the purpose that will help them realize their business goals with clarity and focus. She has partnered with both public and private organizations such as CPG Beauty, including Seed Beauty, Johnson and Johnson, Mark wins beauty Brands, Sovos Brands, and international giants including Belcorp and Age Group from Peru. From the independent brands still in their nascent stages to multinational corporations, she helps organizations enhance brand stewardship and shepherd brands to their most powerful market and potential. When I met Jen, she was super kind, super passionate and I just felt she would be such a great guest to have on. So we're so lucky to have her on today. Welcome to the show, Jen. It is super nice to have you on as a guest today.
[00:02:13] Speaker C: Oh, Andrew, thank you so much. That was such a lovely introduction. I'm happy to be here.
[00:02:18] Speaker B: Oh, so happy to have you here. How are things been with you? What's new? What's exciting in your world? Give us the deets. What's going on?
[00:02:27] Speaker C: Oh, well, you know, we're just coming off winter here in the northeast, so we're wrapping up ski season and getting ready for sailing season here out east. So what's really new with me is we're getting ready to do a family trip and it's going to be a kind of a big family trip in the next couple weeks coming up.
[00:02:49] Speaker B: Oh my goodness. Where are you heading?
[00:02:51] Speaker C: Nepal.
[00:02:52] Speaker B: Oh my goodness. So it's not like you're going to like somewhere close or drive a few hours. Like, this is a big trip.
[00:02:59] Speaker C: It's a big trip. Yeah. My son is turning twelve and my husband thought twelve is a milestone, right? And so he thought that it would make sense to do something that was, you know, milestone worthy to celebrate that yeah. You know, coming of age. So they are hiking to Everest base camp and my younger son and I are just going over to join them and do some touristing after they come back.
[00:03:30] Speaker B: Wow, that's awesome. So that's going to be a great trip. That's going to be a memorable trip for all of you, but especially for him. Yeah, he's going to say when as he gets older, like, oh my God, I got to, you know, I got to go there when I was twelve years old. So he'll be able to tell his family and so that's pretty cool.
[00:03:48] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah, I'm really excited.
[00:03:50] Speaker B: Yeah, I bet I would be excited too for that. Well, I'm glad to hear that things are going well and I'm glad to hear that sounds like ski season went well and now you're in the sailing season. So that just means that the warm weather is coming, which for me is a good thing.
[00:04:06] Speaker C: Yeah, it's coming. There's some, there's some crocuses out in my yard. Well, the snow is gone and there's some flowers. So it's promising.
[00:04:15] Speaker B: It is very promising. So before we begin, Jen, I always have a fun question to ask my guests to get things going. Are you ready for your question today?
[00:04:25] Speaker C: Yes. Bring it on.
[00:04:26] Speaker B: Okay, so your question is what would the world be like if it was filled with male and female copies of you?
[00:04:37] Speaker C: Okay, that is a fun question. Gosh, you know what? I think it would be very, very, very beautiful. I mean, it would be gorgeous, but it might not function as well as it should.
I actually married my counterpart. My husband is an engineer and I'm the creative and together we're the yin and the yang because I make things look beautiful, taste beautiful, I bring all the feels and the warmth. But he's the functional one and he makes it you, you know, it makes it all work. Make sure that we are warmed by the fire and, you know, have gatherings that actually work, not just look good.
[00:05:19] Speaker B: Wow, that's awesome. So that's a great answer. I love the, love the fun answer. I love that it was your quick thinking on that, which is the main point of my fun questions, is that the guest doesn't know. But also it's your first thought, which is the most fun. And I love the reactions that I get from people. So I think it's a great way to get things going. So I love it.
[00:05:41] Speaker C: Yeah, that was fun.
[00:05:43] Speaker B: So I appreciate you having fun with me. Why don't we start off with you telling us a little bit about you your story and your why.
[00:05:51] Speaker C: Yeah, so, I mean, your intro was great and kind of covered a lot of the bases. But, you know, I think that starting at the beginning, I am a creative through and through. I went to art school, was working in, you know, all of the conceptual art world, and really thinking about ideas and how to express those ideas in a. In a visual sense. When I graduated from college, I went to RISD in Providence, Rhode island. When I graduated from college, it was right at the time of September 11. So I graduated, had a few months off to play, and then September 11 happened, and I had sort of thought, you know, I'm gonna graduate. I'm gonna go and get a really cool job in the.com bubble. Cause it was. It was growing and bubbling up. And then when the twin towers went down, so did all of these, like, interesting jobs went along with it, and a lot of hope and sort of optimism went with it, too. So I just decided to craft my own career. And I think that to date, my career has been sort of my biggest creative project that I've ever endeavored. I really didn't know what I wanted to do, but I knew that I could make anything and would be able to do that if I put my mind to it. So over the years, I went from making logos for, you know, my parents, friends, and people who are in town who would pay me for a logo or a website, to designing full fledged identity packages for larger corporations, which then led into, I can design these identity packages, but why? What's the reason behind it? And so that really started me on the road of thinking about, how do we connect the business dots with the communication dots that are usually output in a visual sense or an oral or written sense. And so what I kind of realized is that that brand DNA is the foundation and engine of all communications that people connect with. And that's really what makes a business shine. Right? Is that communication mechanism. So that's what I do today. I really work at the intersection between business and brand strategy, mostly for growth stage CPG companies. And our mandate is really to grow mindshare in order to deliver market share. And that means thinking about the DNA of the organization and how that DNA connects with all stakeholders through the communication mechanisms.
[00:08:50] Speaker B: I love your story. I love that you went through all different phases of your life and your career. First off, funny note is that when you mention RISD, the first thing that popped into my mind was the movie wedding crashers. When he mentions RISD, that's the first thought in my mind. When you said that. But as far as getting back to your story, I love the fact that you talk about communication. And I really feel like communication is key for everything. I feel like we can never over communicate my feelings because I feel like stuff seems to be missed a lot. So if you over communicate, that's okay. But if, you know, I feel like when we miss stuff, then I feel like. I think it upsets people and that's when things go in a dark direction, as far as I'm concerned.
[00:09:39] Speaker C: Yeah. And I think that what, you know what my goal is when I work with clients is to put together a foundation to build that communication mechanism.
[00:09:48] Speaker B: Right.
[00:09:48] Speaker C: Because if you're focused in what you're saying, showing, doing and believing in, then that comes across as a very clear piece of communication. But if you are talking about this over here and you're talking about that over there and they are disconnected, then there's no connection.
There's no thread that ties it all together and paints a picture of what it is that you're really trying to say.
[00:10:18] Speaker B: I totally, totally agree. So that goes like a segue into our conversation today. So again, we're talking about human connection, which I feel is super important.
What I want to hear is, what does human connection? Because we all have, there's a different definition for everybody, but what does it mean to you, Jen?
[00:10:36] Speaker C: And I think that's why we're all here.
I think it's critical to our existence, our happiness, our progress. For me, it's fundamental in solving almost any issue or problem. If we really, truly understand each other and we have a clear vision of one another's experiences and perspectives, then, you know, we can have a little bit of empathy for each other. We can communicate effectively and we can have messages that land on ears that are open to receiving those messages. So I think that, you know, really it's about understanding how each of us will perceive that piece of communication and how we can deliver that communication in a way that is going to land on ears, that that will receive it.
[00:11:26] Speaker B: I love that you said that because I feel like we can communicate, but if we want to build connection, we have to. You know, I've always say all the time that it's not the words sometimes. So sometimes words are bad, but it's not always the words, it's the tone. So the way that we communicate. Yeah, the tone that we deliver our communication. And I feel like if we are delivering it in it, like you said, a happy, compassionate manner, then I believe it's going to be received. And the connection will be much deeper. If it's not brought out in that aspect, then I feel that there's going to be. There's always issues.
[00:12:10] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I think the first step is just really understanding your audience. For me, you know, every time I approach a project, I paint a picture of every single stakeholder. And I have a process in my practice, and I call it full spectrum branding. And really the foundation of what that is is looking at the three major stakeholders, which are your consumers, your employees, and then your shareholders. And so when I do the work, I really try to dig into what is making that consumer want to be attracted to this brand. Who is that consumer? Why do they exist? What are they thinking about when they're interacting with this organization?
And the same goes for the other profiles, the employee, like, what is it that's attracting them to this organization? How are they receiving messages? How are they hearing things? And I do this all through listening. I mean, I think that's the basics of it. I put together focus groups, I organize surveys, I listen to social media and what's happening there and paint a sort of synthesized picture of all of these different perspectives so that the leadership team has a sense of, like, who is it that we're touching with this company?
[00:13:43] Speaker B: So I feel like we kind of went in this a little bit, but I don't want to dig a little bit deeper here. Why is human connection so important? Not just for everybody, but when it comes to leadership, why is it so important?
[00:13:54] Speaker C: I mean, first and foremost, I don't think you can be a leader if you don't connect with the people who look up to you.
Right. Like, you have to be able to empathize with the people that are a part of your work process. You know, I also think that relationships really come in all shapes and sizes. And I think leadership is really a type of relationship. And the fundamentals to a relationship are respect, understanding, and communication.
Those are really the ground floors of healthy relationships. So if you don't prioritize those things within your role as a leader, you're not going to go very far as a leader. Right. I mean, you've had bosses in your life. Like, how would a boss that, like, couldn't understand you as a person, how would they be able to lead you?
[00:14:51] Speaker B: Well, I think they would have a hard time. I think that it would be difficult for them, and I feel that the trust and respect would not be there. So I feel like when you. I mean, I've had leaders were, you know, they were not very good leaders. At all. So you went with the flow, whatever. And then I've had some really good ones. Jen, were, you know, I joke, you know, I talk about it and, you know, they kind of giggle, but I tell them, like, you know, like, I would literally, like, go, like, run through a wall for you because, you know, you see me, you understand me and you trust and respect me and you allow me to be me for who you know or the person that I am. And that means so much to me. And I'm sure it means it may not mean as much to everybody, but to me it does. And I think that's a leader is kind of figuring out how much that means to certain people and how much it mean it doesn't mean to certain people.
[00:15:45] Speaker C: Yeah, for sure. And I think that if you're an employee and you don't feel seen by your leadership, you're not going to be that employee anymore. You're going to find a new job where you are seen and you are heard and you are respected. So I think that sometimes it's hard to take the time to be able to prioritize those connections, but it's critical to actually having a workforce that will jump through hoops, like you say, and move mountains when they don't need to, but they want to because they feel that they're prioritized as a person.
[00:16:23] Speaker B: So do you think the leaders struggle with human connection? Because I could see that some of them are put into a situation where they're not taught how to be the leader. They know how to do the job but are not taught how to be a leader. So do you see that human connection could be part of what they would struggle with in that, in that vein?
[00:16:44] Speaker C: Yeah, totally. I mean, I think you're right. Like, you become a leader because you've done well at your job.
You've, you know, you've sort of done a good job and you've taken orders well and you climb up the ranks and then all of a sudden you're in a position where you're a leader and you're, you're trying to do this without any formal training. I mean, I do think that, you know, a lot of leadership is learned through practice and also, you know, learned through having experience with other leaders.
So it's, you know, it's very much kind of an organic, well, this is how my boss used to be to me, and this is how it worked for me. So that's my leadership style. So it's, there's a lot of kind of mentoring, but you know, I do think it's easy to get caught up in the hustle and bustle of work and life, and you, you're moving fast, and sometimes you don't always take the time to listen and process and respond. I mean, I'm a very big, like, processor. You know, I like to think about, you know, how I can make things better. And, and sometimes my immediate response is not always the best response because I didn't have time to, like, let the idea compost what is what I like to say. So everybody, I think everybody can struggle. But, you know, a few things that I think I see often is that a lot of leaders tend to dictate and forget to listen.
And I think that listening is one of the biggest things that can help you to understand what's really happening and to understand how to deliver information. You know, I think that one of the things that is important to do is to take the time when the relationship starts to set the stage. You know, like, how is it that you take feedback? You know, how do you want me to deliver feedback? We know that we're going to have some tough conversations at some point. So how would you like me to bring those conversations up to you? How would you like to hear that feedback so that it makes you feel comfortable and, and understood? So I think having those, like, upfront, meaningful, connecting conversations, it starts from a place of love and respect. You know, if you say, hey, I want to make sure that when I give you some feedback that it's going to land on your plate in a way that you can actually hear that. So, you know, I think that it's hard to take the time to set up that framework for communications, but in order to really sort of, like, have that leadership style that makes people want to jump through those hopes for you, that formalization of how you're going to communicate is critical, and I think it's often just glossed over in the relationship.
[00:19:43] Speaker B: So I kind of see it, too, as, like, in this situation. You know, I feel like it's a responsibility of two parties. So I think it's a responsibility of the talked before about somebody stepping into a leadership role. I feel like it's their responsibility to say, hey, I would love to take this opportunity and become a leader and a manager. However, I don't really have a lot of experience in that. So I want to make sure that I'm getting the proper training and the proper guidance, not only just for myself, but for my team, and then in turn, for the organization, I feel like it's their responsibility that when they're putting somebody there to make sure that the person has all the tools that they need in order to be successful as a leader and not just throw them to the wolves and say, you know, good luck and, you know, you know, here's a bump in your salary and good luck.
[00:20:45] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, there needs to be a culture of growth and leadership and understanding and empathy in order to have a space to grow. Leaders that are leading with heart and kindness.
[00:20:59] Speaker B: Exactly. You just mentioned culture there. So how does culture and human connection coexist? So, for example, for leaders or for the workplace, how did it to coexist?
[00:21:12] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I think that culture is. I mean, what's that saying? Like, culture eats strategy for breakfast? Yeah, that's that famous saying. But, you know, I mean, I think that human connection is the core of culture, and I think that having a deep understanding of the needs of the people in the organization are going to dictate what that culture really looks like. I was hired recently to do some culture work for a CPG organization that was just having growing pains. They had started up, and they were growing really fast, and they were just scrappy and hard charging type A individuals who were just like, hey, we're going to win. We're going to go. We're going to win. And everybody was running, and they were just on fire, and then they hit a roadblock, and they didn't make an outcome that they thought they were going to make. And it just took the wind out of everybody's sails, and then it was just like. And I think that what happened when I came into the project is, you know, what we realized is that digging deep into the. The people who were a part of the organization really helped the leadership understand the problem. So what we uncovered was that everybody in the organization was kind of type a. You know, they were like, we want to win. We want to make progress. But, you know, they also wanted to feel like there was closure, you know, like something, they finished something and they did a good job. Right. That's like, kind of the type a, sort of, you know, role. Like, they wanted to feel like, good, you know, pat on the back, great, you did a good job. Okay, roll into the next. And instead, this organization was just like, oh, good, you finished that. Well, here's 15 more things that you have to do. And there was never that closure. And so I think because they didn't have the time to understand that, that Persona and that need for closure, they were just creating a tremendous amount of friction within the culture. And everybody was like, oh, I can't do this. It's too much. It's, you know, blah, blah, blah. But instead, if they took the time to say, well, this is who the people are that work for us, and this is how we need to. We can still do the same amount of work. We just need to have a little closure, and we need to have a little, like, good job, you know, that you did that. That was awesome. Cleared it off your plate. All right. Just that little bit of information helped to change the culture into a more positive and productive environment. So it's critical, you know, just. Just having a sense for who it is that's a part of your organization and how it is that you can meet them and communicate with them in a way that, again, lands on ears that are listening is the only way to have a positive and productive culture.
[00:24:36] Speaker B: I love everything that you said there, especially when you said human connection is the core of culture. I truly believe that. I feel like they go hand in hand. Connection and culture. People say that your work life and your work people are like your family in some cases. I'm not too crazy about that saying because, you know, I talk to a lot of recruiters, and they say, well, you know, when you say, like a company says they're family orientated, a lot of people don't get along with their families. So sometimes it's kind of like, oh, whoa, like, I don't get along with. You say you're family orientated. Well, I'm. I don't get along with my family, so I don't know if I want any part of that.
[00:25:15] Speaker C: Right.
[00:25:15] Speaker B: And I know what they mean. It was just a matter of maybe rephrasing it and saying it in a different way and maybe saying, you know, we are a company that believes in human connection. We believe in a strong culture. I think those would be way better ways to say it. Then we're family orientated.
[00:25:38] Speaker C: Yeah, totally. I think it's about, you know, I mean, if you break down what family means, it's about respect and love and understanding.
[00:25:48] Speaker B: Right. I totally agree with you. If you could choose one word to describe yourself, what word would that be?
[00:25:55] Speaker C: Oh, I knew you were going to ask that question.
You know, I think in my heart, I think functionally, I'm creative, but I think in my heart, how I would really describe myself is giving.
[00:26:09] Speaker B: Okay?
[00:26:09] Speaker C: And I think that I just want to help people, and I want to help them, them be better, and I want to roll up my sleeves and give to them what I can give everything that I can give. So I think that's how I conduct my business. I really like to, you know, give everything of myself in order to, you know, make things better.
[00:26:32] Speaker B: You know what? I truly believe that. I feel like solicitors don't know our story, Jen, my story. But when I first spoke with her, this was a while back, we're talking a while while back, and I asked, you know, we had a conversation and I said, listen, I'd like to have you on as a guest. She said, no problem. And then for whatever reason, something happened on her end, something happened on my end. And so the word giving perfectly fits because poor Jen, I would always send her a message to say, hey, you know, what about this day? Or what about this day? And then on her end, she would be like, listen, I'll do what I can to make it work and it should work. And then for some reason, it didn't. And, you know, she mentioned to me when we first started, before we started taping, she said patience was key. And I think it was patience on both ends, so. But I always felt like you were so giving. Like every time I connected with you to say, hey, I really want to fit it in. Let's get it done. And you're like, okay, let's do it. I can on this day, but I, on this day, let's, you know, let's try to do it. And that word really fits in perfect.
[00:27:45] Speaker C: Thanks.
Yeah, I just like to be generous when I can.
[00:27:51] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's recognized for sure. Any final thoughts today?
[00:27:55] Speaker C: I think this has been a great conversation. I've really enjoyed having it and I love talking about these things and thinking about how we can all be better, you know, better at business, better at being human.
[00:28:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it was a great conversation as well. I wanted to take the time, Jen, to thank you for joining me. This amazing conversation. I thought it was amazing as well. I think that you're one of the most strategic people that I have met through our conversations. I feel like you're super strategic. And what I admire about you is that in our interactions, you deeply understood what is important. And we kind of talked a little bit about it today. But I believe that you believe in rapport building, which is what I truly believe in as well. So I appreciate your care and your understanding for people. And it is something that is greatly appreciated, I'm sure, by many, but specifically by me. So thank you so much for you. I appreciate you and I appreciate you taking the time from me today.
[00:28:58] Speaker C: Amazing. Thank you for having me so much. It's been a pleasure.
[00:29:01] Speaker B: You're very welcome. On behalf of myself and my guest Jen, I'd like to thank you all for listening and joining us today. Until next time, be safe and remember that if we all work together, everyone, we can accomplish anything.
[00:29:21] Speaker A: You have been listening to. Let's be diverse with Andrew Stout to stay up to date with people future content hit subscribe.
