Concept Development

[00:00:04] Speaker A: Opinions expressed in this episode are personal. They do not necessarily reflect the views of this streaming platform. [00:00:13] Speaker B: Good day, everyone, and welcome to another edition of let's be diverse. I am your host, Andrew Stout. This episode is dedicated to all my loved ones who have supported me through this journey. Today, our topic is going to be on concept development, and I'm so happy to have my guest today, Dina Nord. Since 2014, Dina has been a managing partner and creative director of Advent Creative, a branding and design studio located in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Dina was born and raised outside of Chicago, Illinois. She received her BFA from the University of Wisconsin Milwaukee in 2009, where she focused on both design and painting. She is still an active painter and you can see her work around Milwaukee in murals and public art. In 2019, Dena co founded Rev Collective with Kate Potziek and Angela Dimiani. Rev collective focuses on connecting women and non binary individuals to help them find a safe space to be vulnerable in their professional lives and share resources to strengthen their companies. She is also a wife and a mom of two young boys. Deena is a truly unique and valued individual and we are so lucky to have her on today to join us. Welcome to the show, Deena. Thank you very much for taking the time to join us today. [00:01:39] Speaker A: Good morning. Thanks for having me. [00:01:41] Speaker B: You're very, very welcome. It's so nice to have you on here today. How are things with you? What's new? What's going on in your world? What's happening? [00:01:50] Speaker A: Things are good. It's kind of like peaking, looking like there might be some sun today, and it's been a hair warmer here and there, so I'm kind of, like, getting excited to maybe be at the tail end of winter. Yeah, things are going well. I'm looking forward to 2024. [00:02:08] Speaker B: Yes. Actually, I was just saying to somebody yesterday that 2024 is just. I don't know, it's just flying by. Like, I can't believe that we're gonna be, like, we're just sailing through it, so I just can't believe how fast it's going. I guess as we, you know, go on in our years, you know, time just goes by so fast. So it's just amazing to me how fast it's going. [00:02:29] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:02:30] Speaker B: So before we begin, I always have a fun question to ask my guests to get things going. Are you ready for yours, Dina? [00:02:40] Speaker A: Yes. Let's see. Maybe I. Maybe I'm not. We'll find out. [00:02:45] Speaker B: So my question to you is, which decade do you love and connect with the most and why the eighties? Nineties? Two thousands or today. [00:02:57] Speaker A: Eighties, nineties, two thousands or today. Wow, Andrew. Love the vibe on that. It's interesting. I feel like I'm one of those people. I don't know. I don't think this is what everybody does, but I think that I've been, like, five different people in my life. So it's like you asking me that question makes me think of all the different people I've been like. I feel like I obviously was like a child. I went through a child phase, but I feel like then I went through a country phase, then I went through a super hippie phase, then I went through, I'm an artist, super abstract phase. So each one of those decades kind of pertains to that. I don't know. I am gonna say I think the nineties, I truly enjoyed the time before social media and, you know, obviously, like, the Internet, love it, but the. The time before everyone was on their phones and smartphones and social media. I'm so lucky that I was, like, literally, I think the last generation that got to grow up, like, with an adolescence that went through, you know, some of the hard times without social media. And I'm so happy for that. So I will say that that was a great time for me. And I. And I'm like, that culture. Like, I'm like, let's get the Lisa Frank and the big, bold colors and, like, the nineties boy bands, like, at their era. Like, I'm here for that as well. [00:04:33] Speaker B: I do like the nineties as well, too. And I, you know, the boy bands I agree with you were huge back in the day. There were so many of them. They just see you just wondered, like, okay, here's another one. And then they just became popular. And then another one came. You're like, oh, boy, they're trying to be like this band, and they became popular. So. So, yeah, I definitely agree with you. It brings back when I thought of this question, too, it kind of brought back memories of. Of myself as well, of thinking back of how things were for me in the eighties, how things were made from nineties and two thousands. So it was an interesting question. So I saw it. I'm like, hmm, this is gonna be a fun one. [00:05:11] Speaker A: I think I'll, in, like, nineties design, like, made a reoccurrence last year. I feel like it was, like, trending again maybe a little bit now to be like, that nineties trend. It's interesting. [00:05:23] Speaker B: I agree with you 100%. Well, great answer. I love your answer, especially not knowing what it was beforehand. I'm super impressed with how you handled that. So great job, and thanks for having fun with me here. Why don't we start off or get this thing going here with you telling us a little bit about you, your story, and, of course, your. [00:05:43] Speaker A: Why, sure. Yeah. Like you said, I was kind of, I was born and raised outside of Chicago, and I came up to, I really wanted to go to school in Chicago, but I was the first person in my direct family to go to college. And, you know, it was super expensive. So my mom actually found UwM in Milwaukee, and I wanted to go to a school that was kind of like in a city, but still had a great design and art program. I came up to Milwaukee, fell in love with the city, fell in love with design and their art program and painting, and then ended up staying in Milwaukee. It's just such a great, small, big city. People around here call it, like, small walkie. Everybody, like, lifts everybody up. I've never seen so many, like, resource sharing. Some other cities, I feel like I can competitive, and Milwaukee just, you know, if somebody doesn't work for me, I'm like, here, use this resource. Or so. I love it here. So I did a couple of regular jobs in the design community. I did some in house jobs, and then I ended up working for the Kohler company. They have some huge offices here. And then I worked for the Milwaukee Art museum for a number of years. I loved it there. That was, like, essentially my dream job. I worked there for three years, and then I just kind of started getting this itch. I felt like having a family was possibly in my future, and I just felt like I wanted to maybe possibly see what running my own business business would be like. And I kind of am a very. I like to act like I'm, like, super chill, and I'll fly by the seat of my pants, but really, I really do like to plan. And I was like, if I'm ever going to run my own business, I probably should before we even start thinking about having a family or settling down. And then I was also always painting. I was, like, teaching painting at the time, and the. The world just kind of showed me an opportunity. I sold a ton of paintings, more than I'd ever sold. I sold, like, a collection of paintings to a office. And then someone offered me, like, six months of freelance work. So I quit my job. I bought a house, I got a dog, I got a tattoo, and I got engaged in, like, five months. I just kind of went crazy. But I've been doing that ever since. And so we me. A friend approached me at the time, right around the time that I was thinking about leaving, and they were freelancing, and they kind of liked my style and what I was doing. And we decided to come together. We formed avant creative. The name comes from. We wanted to be odd and avant garde. We were just a couple of goofballs, and we knew that was going to be part of the package of what you were buying into at our company, but that's what makes it fun. And we also wanted to use cutting edge ways to do design and branding. We wanted to go down the augmented reality path for a long time. Long story short, it didn't work out, but we were both moms now, and what keeps us going is what I'm really trying to build is show my immediate family, my boys, that you can curate your own life, essentially. I felt like, growing up, I felt like you had to work in this nine to five and you had to put your head down and just work and, you know, get insurance. But I've been able to kind of break through that stigma. And even though, of course, it's been incredibly hard sometimes, I'm really proud to keep going, to show as a woman, as a mom, that you can make your own life, you can choose your own schedule, and still be successful, still get the job done, whether. Whether maybe sometimes I need to take off because my kid got sick, or maybe I just need a day that you do not need to be in the confines of a regular nine to five, Monday through Friday to run a business or be successful. So that's kind of what keeps me going in terms of the company. What we have really built a foundation on is we aim to use design to empower mission driven organizations. We kind of used to do all types of design and all types of audiences, but now, especially my business partners from a nonprofit as well, now we. We're really focused on if we're going to run this business, if we're going to do design, we're. It's almost like we're going to use our powers for good type of a thing, where we don't want one of our things we like to say is like, we don't want any organization that's making change in a community to be in bit, to be embarrassed by their business card or their logo. You know, that's what we want to solve, is organizations. And it doesn't have to be just nonprofits. We work with a ton of nonprofits, but anybody that's really making a positive change in a community, how can we unlock them through design and messaging and strategy? How can we get them to the next level to be making even more change in their community? [00:10:47] Speaker B: There's so much stuff to pack in there. First off, I love the story. Love the where you came from, love the ideas, love the thought process of where you came from, what you were thinking of doing. One thing that caught my attention was when you said that you want your boys and your family to realize that you can curate your own life. That really hit me. I feel like that's super important. And the reason why is because in the stuff that I do, leadership, career development, there's a lot of people out there right now who don't think that they can for whatever particular reason, whether they don't feel like they have the schooling or they don't feel like they have job skills or what have you. And I continuously tell them that you do. We learn stuff as we go on. So I know I can say it with positivity, that when you went from everything you did in your life, you learned, you took a little something from it to get to the stage that you are at now. And that's what I kind of try to reiterate to people, is that you can take little things from each thing that you've done. When you say you don't have experience, you do have experience. You just have to look at the expert, you know, the little things, the things that you've done, and, you know, look at ways at how they can translate to. Into the next level. So I just love, love that. I love the fact that you said you were the first person to go, to go to college. That's super cool. I think that college is great. It's a great opportunity for people to learn and grow, and I think we learn many things. It's the first time that we're off, you know, probably on our own a little bit. You're learning things. You're learning, you know, how to cook, how to prepare, how to. How to study, how to learn all these new things, all these new skills that you weren't learning before that you didn't know how, you know, that you didn't have to do before, probably in some cases. So I just love your story. I love where you've come from, and it seems like you have developed and come up with such a great idea that people love and enjoy. [00:13:00] Speaker A: Thanks. Yeah, it's. You know, if you would have asked me in year two of running my business, I'm sure I would not have sounded as confident at all. But you know, it's important. I think especially, like, women, you know, there's, like, a statistic that, like, women don't apply for a job unless they think they're, like, 90% qualified, but, like, men, it's like 60. No offense, Andrew, but I think. I think it's important to me, too, to be, like, a woman entrepreneur. That's why, you know, we also started, like, Rev collective, though it only ran for three years. That was another company that was, like, really focused on, like, women empowerment and accountability, just because I think one of the main things that allowed me to do what I've done is the support network I've had. I would not have been able to do it without a super supportive family and husband and friend group. I think that's why a lot of business owners fail, too, is like, that's one thing I would say is, like, if you're thinking that you're going to go down that path of entrepreneurship or even leadership is to set yourself up to have some sort of support network, that's. That's not like your direct spouse, right. Because you need to vent with a person that's going to be honest with you as well as someone to kind of unload some of the things that you're ultimately going to have issues with. [00:14:21] Speaker B: I totally agree with you 100% there. I know for myself, my, you know, I love HR. I could talk HR, leadership development, you name it. I could talk about all that stuff till the cows come home. And you're absolutely right. My wife is very supportive on that. She loves to talk about that stuff. But I know that there's certain times where, you know, she's not going to want to talk about that stuff, or there's a certain amount of time that she's probably going to want to talk about stuff because it's, you know, it's an interest to her, but it's not a huge interest to her. So when you. I agree with you 100%, when you have those close, when you've built rapport and you have that community of people who like to talk about the similar stuff, it's so great to have that because then you have that outlet to talk about those things. I always joke about with my wife. Sometimes we have conversations and she always, you know, she'll say to me sometimes because HR people were very. Were being known to be very philosophical. We look at things different. We look at things differently. So when we're having a conversation, I'm very philosophical. I'm always like that. I'm always thinking, like, that, and sometimes she'll say to me, she'll say, andrew, don't hr me right now. And, you know, and it's, you know, she's not, she's mad, but it's just because that's just how I'm thinking. And I always think like that. That's just from my studies, I always think like that, and I just think that it, you know, you can, there's always, in every scenario, you can use those philosophical thinking and thoughts each time. So what you said resonated with me there that, you know, we can't always talk about our, those things, what are significant others. So, yes, it's very important to have that, have that outlet, for sure. So explain to us what concept development is. [00:16:18] Speaker A: So concept development, I think, can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people, depending on what type of company that you run. But, like, more broadly for us, especially in the design world, but more broadly, it would be, it's a process, right? It's a journey. It is. It's where you generate a lot of ideas. You evaluate them, you get feedback on them. You are fine and you are fine, and you narrow down to what your final ideas. It's strategic, but it's also, especially in our background of design and branding, it's really imaginative. We like to cast a very wide net and then narrow down. And narrow down. I think before, like, earlier on in my career, it would be more, it's different than what it looks like now, but in our design agency, it is. It's a lot of research and talking with a client and getting a lot of questions asked and then figuring out what that might look like. Kind of like, you know, what do you do best? Why should we care? Making very, like, deliberate questions that allow us to create, create a lot of ideas. So in terms of, like, concepts, it could be, you know, a lot of times it's, what we do is messaging, it's mission vision statements, and then it's, it's ultimately identity design. Like, what is your logo? So for us, it is, again, it's casting a big net of research, concepting all these imaginative ideas of what all of that research could look like. That's one of my favorite parts is as a creative and as a creative director and running a design agency, we're the ones that can, like, problem solve in such unique ways of, like, here's all this research and data. What does that actually look like? And then for us, it's a lot about getting feedback on that. What is that? This is what we're understanding. Is this what you're understanding? Are we on the same page and building time for that? And then what's hard about that is listening to that feedback and then trying to figure out what to do with that. It's about who you're supposed to listen to about what they're saying. What is our stance? What do we know to believe is right? What do they think is right? Who is actually right in the end? So it's such a journey. Sometimes it's quicker than others. Concept development can be super, super long if there's a lot of stakeholders involved, especially with nonprofits, that process is probably going to be a lot longer because we're working with. With a board, we're working with community. We actually might be going into the community and doing some focus groups and some facilitation, talking to them, showing them what we're thinking about. But if I'm working with a solo, preneur, single business owner, it's going to be a lot shorter. And that process is probably not going to need so much heavy lifting. It's probably going to be like, this is what we're thinking, yes or no, we're moving on. So it's kind of. It's not. Not a cookie cutter process. It's the overall idea of concept development in itself is generating ideas and refining them and getting feedback and responses. But for us, the actual steps of the process can change. [00:19:34] Speaker B: There's so many things that you said that I love. So, first off, I love the fact that you're saying questions. So I'm guessing that you would have to ask figuring out what the right questions are so that you can communicate and figure out exactly what that person is trying to get or what they're trying to. Trying to get out of there, I think that's super important. And I'm going to say feedback, too. I love when you mentioned feedback because I feel like when we're getting feedback, we have, like, got my certificates in HR, diversity, inclusion. We get feedback sometimes. And there's some people who get feedback and they're like, well, I don't know what you're. You know, you don't know what you're talking about. I think I'm right. And I feel like when we get to a point where we no longer want to take feedback, because I think feedback is not necessarily negative. Feedback helps us grow 100%. And I feel like when we're getting feedback, you're continuously learning. So the moment that we say that we know everything and we're good, that's when we're gonna get ourselves into trouble. So I feel like I'll take feedback from anybody and everybody as I get their opinions on stuff. Do I have to take their feedback, or do I have to take exactly what they said? Absolutely not. But I am definitely gonna listen to their feedback, take note of it, listen to it clearly, and then after that, process it, and figure out what they said, and if I liked what they said or if I agree and go on from there. But if we don't want to listen, then I think we're the ones that are losing out for sure. [00:21:17] Speaker A: I absolutely agree with that. I think you're not going to go anywhere as a leader or as someone who runs a team, if you're not open to listening to feedback, whether that's from the team or from the client, it's so important because you truly might be missing something or, you know, their ideas are valid. They're coming from somewhere. Have we been told to just use purple because it's someone's favorite color? Yes. Are we going to listen to that? No, but it's hard. I think that's where, like, our experience has become really refined, is, like you said, absolutely. What are the right questions to ask? That is, so much of our time is spent on what are the right questions to ask and in what order, and then what are the follow up questions, and truly not. Let's just get to the next question. But let's. Let's take a pause. Something's really happening here. Let's dive into this specific part. But then, while we're in the concept development phase, is. Is listening to the feedback and taking it and sitting with it and knowing who to really listen to. It's hard sometimes. Everybody, you know, of course, like, of course we should listen to the boss or the CEO or the executive director. But especially with nonprofits, what we should be listening to might be coming from the community, and they might be different things. So our strength is. I think we've gotten really good at paying attention and knowing, looking at what the mission is and the vision or what the unique selling point is. What do we need to sell here? What message do we need to get across? And let's work backwards from that and have that be the guiding light, not just this single person. [00:23:00] Speaker B: So I think we kind of dug into it a little bit, but I want to kind of go a little bit more in depth on this here. What are some of the biggest challenges that you see in concept development? [00:23:11] Speaker A: Well, like I said, I, you know, I think knowing who to listen to is hard. And, you know, what first comes to mind, too is, like, expectations, like project management, like communication, all that type of stuff, you know, is the nitty gritty, too, in the process is, especially when there's a large team involved, is, I think we're really good at communication and we've learned that so important that I think as long as you're very communicative of what is happening, people are more open to the process and listening to you, I think if you just, if we go and we do our job in a box and we do not communicate the process of what's going to happen when, why we're doing the things that we're doing, and we just present ideas to people, they're much more apprehensive to kind of accept. So I think keeping everybody is informed is hard because it, it takes some time, but I think it's, it's so beneficial. And, like, expectations versus timeline is also very hard when you're in anything creative because, of course, we would like to just, like, sit and be creative and create ideas and messaging all day. But, you know, at the end of the day, there's a timeline involved, there's a budget involved. So managing, managing the timeline, managing the team, allowing people to be creative and have that, like, get into that flow state. Why? Knowing that we, we have deadlines that we need to hit, it's hard. And I think in terms of getting feedback, it's another thing that I struggle with sometimes is letting go of something that we might really love. Just maybe it's not the right thing. And especially when it comes to identity design and creating logos, sometimes we've made marks that are, like, gorgeous, but it's not, ultimately, it's not right. So we have to be like, bye, I'll see you one day. Like, you know, we have to, like, let go of things and, and that's hard, too, to kind of walk away from a path you might have put a lot of work into. We've done that a couple times, too, where we've gotten very, very far, and then at the end of the day, we know it's not the right decision and we'll have to backtrack. It's happened to us a couple times, but it's like, it's hard. It's hard to know that, and it's hard to kind of come to terms, but it's kind of like a, like a cut twice. What is it? Like a measure twice, cut once type of a thing. Like, we can't get all the way to the end without. Without doing that. That concept development phase of just knowing what is right, getting feedback, and just, like, having to listen to it sometimes it's hard. [00:25:56] Speaker B: I could see expectations, I would say, are huge as well. So in the HR realm, when somebody is hired for a job, and during most companies in the opening, like their first day, when the candidate arrives, they sit down with their leader or their manager, and the manager gives them clear expectations of what they're expecting for that person as far as their job and what they're needing from them. So I could see with you when you're dealing with, not just with your clients, but with your team, telling them, this is, you know, so if the customer talked with you, this is what I want. Whatever you're explaining to your team, you know, these are what the expectations are of this particular project, and this is what I'm needing from. From you and from you and from you. Let's split this up. Let's do that. You have these expectations of how the project should look and how it should when it's from the beginning to the end. So I could imagine that. And then you mentioned teams. I could imagine being a director as well, talking to large teams and dealing with large teams and being in a scenario where you're like, okay, well, you know, we want to ask questions. We want to say things, but I think the question that there are certain questions that we kind of want to make sure. Like, for example, if you're going to ask, you know, 50 people on a team and you say, you know, this isn't working, what does everybody, you know, what do you all think? Well, then you're gonna get 50 different opinions. So we have to rephrase. We have to phrase that question in a way that people will. That you're not getting 50 opinions, you're getting one or two opinions, or putting them in a group and coming up with ideas and stuff like that. But when, like I said, when you're getting 50 ideas, I mean, if you'll forget it, like, you're not gonna, it's not gonna be productive, that's for sure. [00:27:55] Speaker A: Yeah, we have, we have a. Today's Saturday for us, and on Monday, we're doing, we're doing a workshop. It's a beginning the process with a new client. And in that workshop, there's gonna be 15 people. So again, it's in the beginning of the process, but we'll have to really, you know, manage that as we, as we go through. It's like a three or four hour workshop. So kind of managing a group like that, sometimes it's hard. I think people just love, you know, sometimes in jobs, people are so stuck on what they have to do regularly, part of their regular jobs, because when we come in, people are like, oh, I get to, like, imagine and have fun. And I haven't been asked about this in so long. What is my mission? What is. What is my vision for the company? Like, people get so excited to be able to spend time on that that it's hard, too. It's hard to cut people off and say, okay, let's move on to the next question. But it's exciting to, like, inspire people. I feel like that's part of our job and part of, part of our process is inspiring them on what they could really be doing and what really does make them unique. And what's exciting about that gives people a lot of, like, hope, kind of pull that out for them and put that on a platter and say, no, truly, you are really doing great at X, Y, and Z. Look at this. So it's exciting. [00:29:11] Speaker B: It must be, for sure. So in your thoughts or your opinions, what does the future look like for concept development? [00:29:18] Speaker A: Could you take a guess at what I'm gonna say? I feel like, does everybody say, I'm definitely gonna, like, I feel like it's gonna be what I feel like everybody's been talking about lately, but I really think it's gonna be, you know, in AI. Yeah, it's bananas. What's going on with that? Especially, like, in my industry, we were kind of timid to use it at first, I think especially because, you know, as, like, creatives, we're like, ah, we make everything by hand. We're so unique and custom, everything that we do. But now that it's kind of been around for a little while, we have definitely been using and playing with it, and we've been using it kind of in a couple ways, like, in messaging and, like, target audiences. And in that part of what we do, it's very nice to kind of have another sounding board, I, you know, hesitant to say person, but it's really nice to have a sounding board where we can put in some of the findings that we have from some of those early parts of concept development and say, like, here's the audiences, here's the mission. Here's the why. Here's the industry. What do you think would be a good tagline? And sometimes they're garbage, and sometimes they're nice, but it just helps for us. It helps get to idea generation a little bit. Quicker. So we're not, we're not not using it. I think it's definitely helpful in that. And then in terms of identity design and logo design, it's also helpful, too, because instead of me sitting down, of course, I love to sketch and sketch out a bunch of ideas, and we still do that. But it's also helpful because it is so fast that you can throw up something into one of these AI art generations and say, again, here's my target audience. Here are my messages. Here's what I'm trying to get. What would be a logo design to you? And again, sometimes they might not look good, but there might be something in there that you could take. We would never actually use one of those, but it's nice to kind of almost use it for, like, mood boarding a little bit faster than you would and more refined than you would Pinterest and Google. It's just happening so fast that we're trying to use it. We're trying to not be archaic where we're not using it, because I think we'll be left to behind, but I definitely think that's gonna be part of the early stages of people's process. Is using it in the beginning? [00:31:42] Speaker B: Yeah, AI is definitely. It's kind of what I was expecting. When you're asking, were you? [00:31:47] Speaker A: Yeah, I was expecting. [00:31:49] Speaker B: I was expecting you to kind of say that. But, yes, it's definitely something that's kind of out there. It's coming. I was talking to somebody a couple weeks ago, and they were talking about AI and things, writing AI, and they were talking about job descriptions or job postings. They were saying job postings. And people are using AI for job postings. And, and, you know, a lot of recruiters right now, when a company says they're, for example, you talk about mission visions and values, a lot of companies will, you know, put out there that they are a family orientated company. So, yeah, you're okay. But I think I feel like companies should kind of start to step away from the family orientated aspect because, you know, a lot of people have family members that they don't communicate with or they don't talk to. Right. So when you say you're family orientated, it's not necessarily a good thing, right. People want to hear like, you know, we believe in, you know, I'm not a big fan of the word toxic, but I like, you know, saying, like, if you were to say, like, we have a safe work environment, we believe in people coming in and, you know, being safe for them during their shifts. So stuff like that is what people want to hear. And you mentioned mission vision values. Absolutely. I'm sure you deal with a lot of companies who want to put that stuff on there. I feel it's great. I feel like there was a time where it was missing, and I'm sure you saw this in early stages. It was missing from people's websites and that people were like, okay, you need to have mission vision values. So people are putting them on there. But then, you know, now I'm finding that, you know, when you ask people, what's your mission? What's your vision and your values, they can't really express it. So, you know, if you're going to put it on there, at least be able to talk about it and express it the way that you know, and to show that you actually believe in what you're writing, because you could write anything, but if you don't believe it, then what's the purpose of putting it on there? [00:33:55] Speaker A: I mean, I could go on a whole tangent about that, too, because, yeah, you could just have AI write your mission vision statements, but that is definitely not what we would be doing. And I think, again, going back to the process, we're so collaborative and we're like, educational. I would say that one thing I would say that sets us apart is, and I think what makes any part of the mission vision process important is teaching people why we got here and how that's part of our goal. And I think it should be part of any leader's goal is to, if you are asked what is the company's mission mission, you should be able to speak to that all day. And you should be so excited to tell somebody, be like, oh, let me tell you, we are awesome at this, and this is what we're doing. And AI is not going to be, if you just get something back from AI, it's not going to get you there, but it might get you maybe some of your target audiences on who you need to speak to. [00:34:49] Speaker B: Absolutely. And this is something that people are looking at these things. I'm sure you're seeing it in your business and what you do. People are reading these things more and more. So people are looking at websites. People are reading what's in a website. People are learning about companies not just to work, but also, I mean, we're talking, I mean, we could talk about all kinds of stuff, but, you know, even when you're talking about buying stocks and putting, you know, you want to know what that company's beliefs and what they, what they believe what they trust, what they value. And if you just. If you can't. You're absolutely right. If you can't tell me, if I ask you what your values are and you can't tell me what your values are, then there's, like you said, you have to be excited about it. Yeah, absolutely. And say, oh, my God, here's my values. [00:35:40] Speaker A: I. [00:35:40] Speaker B: This is. I love. I could talk about this all day, but here they are. Right? [00:35:44] Speaker A: Yeah. Let's nerd out about company values, you know? [00:35:47] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And be excited about it. And they should be able to hear that, not just in their voice, but I know if you're sitting across from somebody, you could see that in their face and their smile and their expression and their excitement about it. Like, then, you know, okay, I got something here. Like this. You know, this person believes in what they believe, so I think it's super important. So, Dina, what inspires you? [00:36:11] Speaker A: Oh, it's such a big question. I think, you know, it's so many things. I think, ultimately, I'm inspired to. I'm inspired by the. The idea to keep going and where I'm at. I'm inspired to keep going through my life. Being able to. To run my own business and be able to make some more flexible choices because I run my own business, that is. That is inspiring and both kind of my. My reason for moving forward. What inspires me overall, though, too, is just. Is creative people that are coming up with new ideas that are. That are something that I've never thought about. You know, AI, for sure, is. Is one of them, but there's so many creative people out there that, you know, I follow on social media or just part of my life, that just inspires. Inspire me every day sometimes, you know, just through painting, just a beautiful painting or a mural of just, like, colors or a composition that I've never thought about all the way to a company who's really maybe living their values. I feel like I try to just keep my, like, inspiration lenses on all the time. You never know. Especially being in the creative industry, you never know where it's going to come from. You know, even my kids, I feel like they are so inspirational in a sense, that it's so beautiful to be around children in any aspect, because they're not, like, constrained by anything right now. You know, their minds are just so open to whatever they want to do or talk about that I almost want to live, like, vicariously through them. If we want to, like, stop and have a dance party, maybe we should do that. So I try to stay open. Yeah, I would. I would say I can't answer that in two minutes. It's pretty much everything for me. [00:38:14] Speaker B: I love that. I love that you want to keep going and your flexible choices. I just love the fact that you were. You're open, and we talked about kind of expectations and being open and having great conversations and asking questions and stuff. So I see you as somebody like that who loves to, you know, to figure out exactly what people are looking for and what they truly need to, you know, for their business as well, and for you to, you know, for your business and what you can offer them. I think it's super, super important, for sure. So. So I want to ask you this, though. You mentioned that you're from Chicago, Illinois. So growing up in Chicago, Illinois, what do you think? Is it about Chicago that helped mold you into the individual that you are today? [00:39:04] Speaker A: No. You know, I didn't grow up, like, in Chicago. I grew up about an hour outside. But I think what was great about our little town is that we have a train station, so we could hop on a train and be in Chicago in an hour. And my family was always really open to that. My mom was actually born and raised in Chicago, stayed definitely in the city, a good chunk of her life. And I think I've said this before in different, like, parts of, like, my story or my journey, but I was really lucky to have all the way flashing to, like, high school. I was really lucky to have an art teacher who was super open to be like, let's all hop on the train and go to Chicago. So I think that what that did for me is showed me how much culture is, like, right there at my doorstep. It's not like I was going there every weekend, but it was really great to grow up knowing this is here. This is the level of art that there is in the world. This is the level of infrastructure. This is the level of diversity, you know, not growing up just like in the suburbs, completely in a bubble, being able to be like, oh, these cities exist. Like, this is where you could live. This is. This is where some things are really happening. It was really important to me. I always thought I would end up there. I think I just. Something happened where I fell in love with Milwaukee. I loved the smaller scale of Milwaukee. But I think it was really important. It's really important to maybe any young person to visit cities, I think, especially on a scale of Chicago, just to be aware of some of the things that happen there, the museums and the culture. I keep repeating myself but the. It's a good, like, reference point to know, to come back to. To be, like, if I want to. If I want to learn and I want to try new things, I could do a lot of them in somewhere like Chicago. It's such a staple of the midwest. I feel like it makes us feel, you know, Chicago's a huge city, but it's still so midwestern. [00:41:04] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. It's a big city, for sure. [00:41:07] Speaker A: So have you ever been? [00:41:09] Speaker B: I have been to Chicago. Yeah, I was there years ago. I was working for a fitness club in sales, and I won a trip there for a fitness conference. So the company paid for me to be there for the week. So they paid the flight, they paid food, they paid the hotel, they paid everything, and the conference. So it was a really beautiful city. I loved the culture of it. I loved the different areas. I was lucky enough to go to a jazz bar, a very, like, not the greatest area of Chicago, but just walking in and just the atmosphere of the bar. And they just basically said to us, like, you know, you're okay in here, but just, you know, if you're gonna leave, don't let go, like, by yourself. Like, you know, go on a group and not. And you'll be okay. But it was just amazing to be, like, in that atmosphere and, you know, just seeing these jazz band, hearing them play, and it was just an amazing. It was something. It's something that I'll remember for forever. Yeah. [00:42:21] Speaker A: Do you remember the name of the bar? [00:42:23] Speaker B: I don't remember. I could not remember it. I just know it was not in the greatest area of Chicago. There was a few things happening as we got in. There was about 20 of us, and the bus kind of pulled up, and there was some stuff happening outside, and they just told us, like, just go, like, in. Like, just go in. You'll be okay, you know, at once you're inside. But don't. Don't stop. They told us, stop. Don't have a conversation with anybody. Just, you know, there was some people standing around outside, and. Yeah, it just. Yeah, it was not a. But it was. It was good. Was. [00:43:01] Speaker A: It was fun for you? [00:43:02] Speaker B: Yes, exactly. Exactly. Any final thoughts on our conversation or on concept development? [00:43:11] Speaker A: I think it's a really great topic to talk about. I just think a lot of people probably think that ideas just happen, but I think talking more about the process is almost more important than the final idea. Sometimes I would love to, like, nerd out and hear other people's ideas about this, especially if anybody, after listening to this wants to talk to me about their process. I feel like it would be so fun for me to talk about that with other people from different industries. You know, like I said, that is probably more important than the final product is how you get there. [00:43:43] Speaker B: You know what? I will definitely put that in the. We're going to put all of your contact information in the show notes there, Dina. So once it's out, and I will definitely pull a little note when I post it to. To reach out to you, and I will actually even put that question out there. What the, you know, what's your thoughts on concept development? Let Dina know and we'll see. I'd like. I'd be curious to see how many people answer it and get into the conversation, and if we can bring a conversation to this, that would be. Would be super cool, for sure. [00:44:13] Speaker A: Thanks. [00:44:15] Speaker B: I would like to take the time to thank you for coming on today, Nina. I know we talked a bit about having you on, and it was a while, and then it kind of hooked up, and then I just said, you know, hey, are you free to stay? And you thankfully said you would come on. I think you are such an adaptable, creative, innovative individual, and I just loved listening to your thoughts and your. Your way of thinking today. It was super fun for me. I always take something away from each episode, and I definitely took a lot of nuggets away from today. So thank you so much for. For the opportunity to have this conversation with you. [00:44:54] Speaker A: Thank you so much. And you know what? I feel exactly how we said maybe I'll feel. I feel super inspired and excited to go on about my day. So thank you. [00:45:03] Speaker B: You're very welcome. On behalf of myself and my guest, Dena, I would like to thank you all for listening. And until next time, remember, everybody, that if we all work together, we can accomplish anything. [00:45:26] Speaker A: You have been listening to let's be diverse with Andrew Stout. To stay up to date with future content, hit subscribe.