Life Experiences of Career Women

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Opinions expressed in this episode are personal. They do not necessarily reflect the views of this streaming platform. [00:00:09] Speaker B: Good day, everyone, and welcome to another edition of let's Be Diverse. I am your host, Andrew Stout. This episode is dedicated to all my loved ones who supported me through this journey. Those who have left us will always be in our hearts and will never be forgotten. Today I'm having an interesting conversation, and it's about life experiences of career women. Reason why I want to do this conversation is because I've had some major role models, women role models in my life, and I wanted to have this discussion today. And I'm so lucky to have as my guests Julie Ponchak and Maureen Wilkie. Welcome to the show, ladies. I'm so happy to have you on here today. [00:00:51] Speaker C: Thank you. [00:00:52] Speaker B: You're very, very welcome. And I must say to my listeners, this is actually the first episode that I am doing where I have guests on who know me in my personal life. So we're hoping that they don't share anything or divulge anything that they know that the listeners may not know. But we'll. We'll hope that they keep them on the download. But no, joking aside, it really means a lot to me to have two people who know me outside of the podcasting world and who have spent time with me at gatherings and stuff and. And our friends. So I'm super, super happy about that and. And honored that you both are joining me. How is everything with both of you? Give me the tea, Give me the deets. What's going on? [00:01:39] Speaker A: This is Maureen here. Yeah, like, everything's good. Everything's good in retirement life and in working life after retirement that we'll get into and personal life, family. Everything's great on my side. [00:01:53] Speaker B: Wonderful. Glad to hear. How about you, Julie? [00:01:56] Speaker C: Oh, everything's great on my life on my side, too. And it's. Retirement was great, and back to work is great. No rest for the wicked. [00:02:07] Speaker B: No rest for the wicked, Absolutely. So, you know, just goes to show you, hard working, we want to. Sometimes you want to retire, sometimes you want to continue working. It's all part of. It's all part of life. So. And. And we totally understand that, and it's the way of the world as well. Sometimes we, you know, we enjoy it. Sometimes we need to do it. Sometimes you need to do it for a short little time. Sometimes we need to do it for a longer time. It all depends. So I love that. So why don't we start off before we get things going here? I'd like to get A little bit of an introduction to both of you. So I'm going to give you both a couple of minutes to take some time and introduce yourselves, what you do, what you specialize in. And I'm also going to ask you to tell me about your why. What is your why in either your career or in life. We'll start off with you, Maureen. [00:02:56] Speaker A: Okay, so, hi, everyone. I'm Maureen Wilkie. So, I hail from British Columbia, beautiful B.C. growing up with two sisters, I developed a love for family, adventure and resilience. At 20 years old, I took the leap into the RCMP, where I proudly served for 33 years, protecting and connecting with communities. I've also spent 28 wonderful years with my husband, and we've raised two fantastic sons. So there's my why. And I can't forget my fur family. Tony is my mischievous tabby cat, and Carbon is my handsome charcoal lab. So when I'm not working, I'm still working. But when I'm not working as a casual investigator for Natural Resources Canada or at the provincial legislature as a sessional usher, you'll find me sketching a watercolor, painting, writing poems, and even crocheting. I took a creative turn after retirement. I wrote and published two children's books, Just Are Tony and I Am Tuco. I'm all about exploring new passions and continuous learning. So here's just a few of my favorite things. I thought I'd randomly do a few of my favorite things that might resonate with people. Yoga, sangria, Netflix, Walks, travel, thunderstorms, snowstorms, gemstones, mountains, wheat fields, photography. The fall and the winter are my favorite seasons. The colors green and purple, friends, reading, art, unique people, football games, animals, kindness, and the land of the living skies. Andrew, I'm super grateful to you for this amazing opportunity to be on your fantastic podcast series. My life mantra is like to stay curious and embrace every moment of life's twists and turns. [00:04:53] Speaker B: I love that love. I love that. So when. I love when you said protect, protecting and connecting. So that just tells me. And all the things you just listed there, that kind of corresponds and that just tells me who you are, not just as a. A professional, but in your personal life. And I just love. I just love that. So thank you for so much for sharing that. [00:05:15] Speaker A: Thank you. [00:05:16] Speaker B: Your turn, Julie. [00:05:19] Speaker C: I want to be able to learn how to write like Maureen, so I thank you so much, first of all, Andrew, for having us over. This is awesome. And I've been listening to your podcast since basically since you started, and you've done Such an amazing job. I am so amazed by the courage that you've shown and the like. It takes a lot of courage to do what you do and I admire you. And again, I'm very thankful for being here. So, and being sharing this opportunity with Maureen is even doubly. I'm doubly blessed. So welcome everyone. My name is Julie Ponchak. I'm really, really happy to be here. And here's a little bit about myself. So I've lived a full life embracing change and adventure wherever it let me. Throughout my journey across Canada, I've had the chance to reinvent myself many times. Often not by design, but by happenstance. Each place I've lived and each person I've met has enriched my life in unique ways. I'm very passionate about my loved ones and all animals except for those little eight legged ones. Those can all die. As a devoted animal lover and advocate, I firmly believe in adopt, don't shop. I've even had the joy of being a foster fail and I know I will do it again in the future. I hold a deep admiration for women and the incredible things they accomplish. Supporting the amazing women in my life has always been a priority for me. When I'm not advocating for animals, you can find me gardening, enjoying nature, diving into a good book or audiobook. Music is another passion of mine. That's something that you and I, Andrew, this is where I can say a lot of good stories about you. I love all genres, but my absolute favorite thing to do, other than all I've mentioned before, is to laugh. My husband is my greatest source of laughter. I cherish the humor we share. Growing up in a family with fantastic sense of humor, we often find ourselves laughing until we cry. A tradition that my grandmother, mother, daughter and I share. Traveling and learning about different cultures and languages excite me. And right now I'm fortunate to live in a beach house surrounded by nature animals in a beautiful lake, alongside my husband and our two rescued cats. Looking forward to sharing more stories and insights with you today. So when we're ready, we can dive in. [00:08:03] Speaker B: Wonderful. Well, welcome Julie and thank you so much for your, for your kind words. I really appreciate that. And I do know that you are very knowledgeable in the three things that we're going to be talking about. You both are so I'm super excited about it. So why don't we dive in? So the first, the three topics that we're going to be talking about today, everyone is building the ultimate career, unlocking your potential and then finally we're going to dive into retirement planning. So why don't we start off with the building ultimate career and why don't we start off with you, Maureen, on your thoughts on that topic. [00:08:41] Speaker A: So I come from that, well, the kind of era where like in 1988, I was 20 years old, had two years of college, I was accepted into the RCMP where I stayed for 33 years. So for me, did I know at that time that that was going to be my life career and that it was going to be so rewarding and good? I had no IDEA I was 20. So for me, is there an ultimate career? Perhaps for some people, my career was amazing. I can't imagine doing anything else for that 33 years. But to me, timing is everything. Like timing for opportunities, timing, you know, for my promotions, timing for the moves. You know it to me, yeah, like I don't know if there's an ultimate career. So for me, that's what I know. Nowadays people might do five, 10 careers and move on and explore different things. The good thing for me in the RCMP and my 33 years, it was mini career within each other. So, you know, I was doing, starting out as a recruit, doing patrol and doing general duties. And then I specialized in some federal enforcement and then I got to supervise and then I would go into specialize again into major crimes and missing persons. So each one is a whole new learning curve. Each area in 33 years was like teaching me something. And I was always on a continuous learning curve. Learning curve, learning curve. Until I retired as a superintendent, which I had different programs under me. So it was a higher level of area, like not even just expertise, but just an area to build up and to build on. So for me it's a tough one because this is my lived experience. Right. It's a tough one to say, you know, was there an ultimate career? I think within my career I had multiple little opportunities and multiple, multiple careers. So it allowed me to build up, to be promoted all the way up and to take on different opportunities and challenges. And for me, maybe policing was my ultimate career. Yeah, it's hard because I know even with my kids, they may do 10 different careers. Right. It's not maybe no longer that that whole dedicate yourself to one area. So. So that's all I know right now for that end, which I know Julie would probably have a whole different version of building an ultimate career. I think you build your career of where you're at. So do your best excel at where you're at. It you may move On. Right. You may move on to other areas, but use those stepping stones of your. Of what you've done and do your best of where you are. [00:11:51] Speaker B: Yeah. Before Julie kicks in, I just want to comment on a few things that you said there, Maureen. So you said, you know, you had said timing is everything, which I, I totally under. I believe that. And I think everything has changed. So my parents, when I was growing up, they worked in careers, and they worked in careers for long periods of time. I know my longest job I've had was. Was 11 years, but I haven't really had anything since then. Maybe three years, five years. That's probably the career trajectory. And. But my parents, when they were still alive and when they were working, they worked, you know, 10, 15 years at the same place. And either whether they loved it or not, that was their job and that was their career and that's what they were doing. They. There was no talk of career change or anything like that. It was basically, this is my job, this is what I'm doing, this is what I'm getting paid to do. This is what's supporting my family. So I love your, your sharing of your story because things have changed and lots of conversations that I've had. Things do change as well. [00:13:03] Speaker A: Exactly. But I was lucky enough to, to enjoy my career. Like, I was lucky enough to be happy to go to work for those 33 years. Right. [00:13:14] Speaker B: So let's turn to Julie and get her thoughts on it. [00:13:17] Speaker C: Yeah, Maureen's very right when she says I had a completely different experience than she did. But I also, like, I've never, I did a. I got a college degree, like a certificate or whatever you call it. I never went to university. I got married young, I had my daughter young. And then I had some health issues. And it totally had a huge impact on my life. And I just, I don't know if it's a form. They actually have a name for it now, I think fomo, Fear of missing out. Back then, that didn't exist. There was no term for it. But I think that that's truly what kind of. I probably had the personality to begin with, but definitely that was probably the fuel or gasoline on the fire for me. So at a young age, I just had this desire to not miss out on anything. So I just could not say no to anything, including spending money I didn't have. But somehow it always worked out and saying that I knew how to do things when I didn't in my resumes. And I got very, very good very quickly at doing Interviews and kind of stretching the truth a little bit, but in a way that, you know, obviously I couldn't say that I knew that I was a, you know, a physicist or whatever, because there's no way I could stretch that truth. But I mean, it was always within my reach. I just would, you know, say that I could do things and I knew that there was some. It was something I could learn or teach myself. And that's how I did. That's what I did. So from a young age, I had so many careers and it was always taking opportunities that presented themselves and making my job always bigger. So when my job was always at a higher level when I left than it was when I started, so I just always took on more in that position and grew it. And it would always get reclassified if it was a government job or just, you know, increased in pay and title if it was private. So I think it's just. I don't think it's because I had something special. I think it's just that it's determination and blind faith or almost slash. I don't know what I was looking for. Like, almost blind. Yeah, blind faith in me, maybe in myself. I did. I've always had self confidence and that's. I think my mother was very much to. To thank for that. Absolutely. And so I started. I've had. My God, I had how many careers? So I started. I worked. This was a summer job, but it was my. All my family worked in the hospital. So my stepfather who raised us was a doctor. My mother was a nurse. But then she was a big boss in the hospital. And my brothers, we all worked in the hospital. But I started as a summer job taking care of the elderly and doing their social activities. And this was a summer job. And not long into it, maybe a month after, my mom came to see me and she said. She said, Julie. Masha never called me Julie. She called me Princess. Princess, you're going to finish your summer and you will never do this job ever again. And I'm like, okay. So. Because every day, literally, I would bring one of them home like it would. It was killing me. Some of them never got visitors and I would come home crying or I would come home with one of them. And anyways, so I determined that I would not be able to do any job in that environment because I just don't have the personality to leave that work at work. So. Okay, check off that one. And. But then I became a lab technician. So I did that for a long time and. And then I Had to change careers. I, I got divorced again. You know, things happen when we say happenstance. Like I, I think I would have been happy to do that far longer, but. But I got divorced and you work on shifts and I had my daughter and it just didn't work anymore. So I became. Was in my area. So I, I come from Hall Quebec, which is right across from Ottawa. Everyone there is a civil service, federal civil servant. So I worked for, I went work for Agriculture Canada and then I got bored and the government at the time was offering some payouts and So I was 33, I believe, and I retired from the government. I took a buyout. Buyout. And then I went to work for Cisco in Montreal. And then I got bored and then I went to work for Nesbitt Burns and became a stockbroker. That led me to Nunavut. And then I worked in the Arctic for 10 years and I was like, employee, I don't know, number three in Nunavut. Created the new government there. And then this brought me to Regina and I went back in the government. It helped Canada. Then I went to the ICMP where I got to meet Maureen and the most amazing people there too. And I stayed there. This just to give you an idea of how long, you know, it can go and how you can reinvent yourself and decide. Throughout all of this, I never went to university. I didn't have a university degree and I never really knew what I wanted to do. But throughout all of these jobs, I kind of every time I could figure out, oh, I, this, I really like this. I could, you know, if I could go back now and choose what I wanted to be as a career, I probably would have a pretty good idea of what I would want. I might have chosen to be a lawyer. As a lawyer has a lot of the diversity that I need. I need a job that has a lot of. I have to always be learning and there has to be a lot of movement and there has to be a lot of. Even in the knowledge in the profession I'm in has to constantly change. It has been used. So I think that would work. So yeah, that's, you know, when you say building a career and unlocking your potential, this is. It was very natural for me. And I think the fact that I had no fear and, you know, I just seized all the opportunities, it worked out for me. There was, it wasn't all rosy by any means. There, There was a lot of times where I was like, what am I doing? I should learn to just be happy where I am. But it all worked out at the end, so very different from Marin. I mean, it worked out for Maureen as well, but hers was such a more, you know, constant path. [00:20:51] Speaker B: Right. So the two things that kind of jump out at me is, first of all, your mom kind of guiding you through your life. And I talk about this a lot, and I mention that it's. To me, it's parent leadership. So there's different types of leadership. And your mom was a leader in your life, just like all moms are. All parents are. Is, you know, their parents, they're leading their children through. They're guiding them through life and helping them to develop into the people that they want to be. So your mom was a good leader in your life as well. And the other thing that sticks out to me is that you mentioned is development. So you develop yourself throughout your career, and you managed to get yourself through. Through your career, learning what you needed to learn, and you weren't afraid to learn. And I think. I would say probably. I'm going to guess the main thing that you probably did was you probably asked a lot of questions, which a lot of people and a lot of leaders don't do today, is that they don't ask questions because they're afraid they're not vulnerable enough. And they think that, you know, by asking questions, you're gonna look like you don't know what you're talking about, when in reality, you're better to ask the questions. That way, you know what's going on, and it's better to know what you're talking about and make sense rather than to babble on and say something that makes absolutely no sense. Or you mentioned being a lawyer, pretending that you know everything about being a lawyer. I watch television shows with lawyers, but I would never profess myself to be a lawyer. You know, I would definitely ask questions to people who would be in that profession if I needed to have any answers. So those are the two things that kind of jumped out at me, Julie, that you mentioned. And I really. [00:22:41] Speaker C: You're very right about the questions, Andrew. From the time I was, I think, able to speak, that is all I've ever done. And I mean, much of the dismay sometimes of my mother. But I asked a lot of questions. I've never been afraid of asking questions. I remember the rcmp. We were at the Roche Percy Auditorium, which holds. I don't know how many people. A lot, right, Maureen? Like a lot of people. And it was full and it was someone talking in the front, and, you know, they didn't expect to, you know, have questions necessarily. And then I'd be up with my hand up because my brain, if there's something I don't understand, I'm not the person who can just go like this and pretend and go on. My brain will stop. I need to understand. But most of the time there was people, I'd say nine out of 10, there were people that would come to see me afterwards and say I'm so happy that you asked because I had no idea what that meant or I had no idea what they're talking about. And then you get to understand the rest of what they're saying. Right? Because I wouldn't have been able to follow the rest. So anyways, that's very true. [00:23:49] Speaker B: You took the lead and you asked a question. So that's super, super important. So, so why don't we move on to the next topic. So that topic is unlocking your potential. And this time we'll switch her up and we'll start with Julie and get her thoughts on this topic. [00:24:07] Speaker C: Well, I, I kind of included it in what I spoke that I spoke longer too. I kind of included it. I don't really have a secret to unlocking my potential and I'm sure, I am certain that I have not done. I have not unlocked half of my potential. But I think as human beings we don't unlock anywhere near all of our potentials. The one thing I can say, I'm self confident and I'm not afraid of much. But once in a while I have this little ugly little thing that creeps up in me and it's called the imposter syndrome. And that is an ugly little thing that I cannot explain and I don't know why it happens. And it always shocks me when it happens because for me it's, it goes against my usual personality. Like I usually. Like I said, I don't care if I don't really know what I'm doing. I know that I can figure things out. And I'm not afraid of saying that I don't know when I don't know. That's another thing too. Right. I don't think people hire me thinking that I will know every single thing there is to know about everything that is about this job. I don't. If they do, then they're really. They have unrealistic expectations. So. But even though I know all of this, once in a while something will happen, whatever. I can't even put my finger on what triggers it. And all of a sudden I start doubting myself. What am I doing here? Like, I can't do this job, I'm not qualified for this job. I don't have a university degree. And then I have a bit of a friggin meltdown and I get a panic attack or call it whatever you want, and then I have to talk myself off of the ledge and then, you know, and then it goes away. I don't know what happens, but once in a while, you know, I have to like, I'll go to my mentors, Maureen being one of them. I'm surrounded by these very strong women. My mother was definitely the one for me growing up because she was unbelievable and, but now over the years I have a bunch of friends like that that I admire and, and then I just talk to them and you know, without, I don't even have to bring the subject up. I just, just being with them, they like, they just make me feel, what are you doing? You know, why are you doing Julie? Like, why are you thinking that way? Why are you even. Don't spend, don't waste your precious energy. And like, you know, this is ridiculous. So I snap out of it. But you know, so I feel like, and the rest about unlocking my potential, I've, I've discussed it, it's just the, no fear and just not saying no. And I'm always, I'm always learning something. Like I listen to podcasts, I read, I do study, I, I've studied languages all my life. I love culture. Like I love people. I love learning about different cultures and I'm always very interested in that. And so, and I'm always very curious about other jobs. Like I, you know, it took me a while to find a field that really, really interested me. And the field that I am in now, which is privacy, which I don't think I've mentioned once so far, but it just goes to tell you it's not really this, this podcast isn't really about a specific field. It's more about how you develop your career and all that. But this just happened. This, this profession for me just happened and, and I, I happened in it at a really opportune time as well. So now I am unlocking my potential, which is a field that is evolving and changing. Every two seconds there's a new AI law or privacy law. So it's a very, very happening field. But yeah, you just, you continue on it and you just go forward. Maureen. [00:28:22] Speaker B: Well, before Maureen goes, I just wanted to add on to something saying, you know, when you said don't you don't unlock Your potential and what brought that up is I hear this a lot, is that people, especially in people that are looking for either to change their careers or they're looking for something in general. And you learn stuff through your, through your career. You learn there's little things that you've learned from the, the past job that you can take on to the next jobs. So I, I just wanted to reiterate to, to our listeners or anybody out there that's listening, you know, you can, you, you can unlock your potential. There are things that you have learned through your career that you can translate and move to the next thing. So I am glad that you, that you brought that up, Julie, because I think it's a very important thing and a very important something that we should all remember when we are, you know, when we're looking either to move or, you know, or because we have to get something new. What's your thoughts? Maureen? [00:29:30] Speaker A: So there's lots to unpack here from some of the comments that I've heard. So if I can get back to, like, role models. Yes. Like, my dad was a police officer, rcmp, had a very long career. My mom was a registered nurse and then worked home care, worked with cancer patients and people who were sent home on palliative all the time. She's the strongest woman. So I grew up confident and capable. And so When I was 20 and the RCMP accepted me, I never thought I couldn't do it. You know, I didn't realize it had only been, you know, 20 or 74, 84, 14 years since there'd been women in the RCMP when I joined. Like, I didn't know that. And I just kind of, I don't know, I grew up always with the confidence. So, so I think that whole role model piece is very key. And then throughout my career, there was definitely great role models, male and female, that I could take pieces of in leadership, of how I wanted to be and how I didn't want to be on the same note there. So I also think back to the timing. That timing is everything. Can you unlock your potential? You can unlock your potential. Don't stop learning. Don't stop putting your hand up for roles. And like Sheryl Sandberg said, continue to lean in when you're at that table. Lean in, give your opinion, give your voice. I continued learning, like, throughout my career, and I think people who think they've stopped learning is not a good thing. Like, since I've retired, I have taught myself. I mean, on the creative side, so many things I'm self taught watercolor drawing, all of that. Like, I think you have to keep that brain active, keep your hands active and unlock your potential, whatever that means to you or however that looks. I also think motivation is a key factor. So motivation to me is a fire within. You cannot have someone light the fire for you. It's going to go out. You need your own internal motivation. And sometimes, Honestly, like in 33 years, did I lose motivation sometimes for some things that I was doing or maybe a little piece of my career that wasn't kind of my forte. Yes, absolutely. But how do you get that back? Right. How do you get that back? So again, put things into perspective and for me, we'll speak to that a little bit later. Is, is gratitude like I, I was grateful? Yeah. I have a career, I have a roof over my head, I have a family, we're healthy. I'm having an impact in my community and my work. Yeah. Like I, that's just my take of things. Yes. And policing, there's horrible things. You see people at their worst, but you're also helping. Right. You're also a voice for some people who can't have a voice anymore. So yeah, that's my thing. I think you can unlock your potential. I think you got to be creative and I think you have to look, look at what you can do. Like when you're sitting at the table, are you the silent one there? Like, what are you doing to be part of that conversation? [00:32:50] Speaker B: Maureen and I love when you're talking, when we're talking about unlocking your potential, I'm loving when you're talking about, you know, the things that you do on the outside of your, of your career as well. Actually you both do. And, and I think that's super because when we're talking about unlocking our potential, we have to have stuff that's happening on the outside. It can't always just be career driven. It can't always be about our careers. We have to have stuff that's separate. I'm not a firm believer in work life balance because I feel like the two go hand in hand. But I do feel that we can have what I call workplace harmony, which just means that we, we take little things from both to help us have harmony through our lives. And, and when we're unlocking our potential, we have to have those things that, you know, that we do opposite, that make us, you know, relax and unwind. You know, it's super important to do that. You know, I'm, you know, going off the rail a little bit here. But mental health is super important to me when it comes to unlocking your potential. If you don't have those side things, if you don't have people that you can talk to, if you don't have those outings, if you don't have a hobby, then those you know, you're going to have trouble because you're always going to be thinking about your potential and you have to have those downtimes as well. [00:34:12] Speaker A: Yes. Like you earlier at the beginning of our podcast spoke to what's your why? And I think people need to have a purpose. Right. You know, you know, like you're reaching out to so many diverse people in your podcast and a big community. Right. Like, that's a huge purpose. And so I agree with you. When you unlock your potential, what is your purpose? Right. And when you retire, you don't have to be working again, like, but you watch what is your purpose? Is it golfing? Is it animals? Is it, you know, music? Like, you need something. I agree. Totally agree with that. [00:34:46] Speaker B: Every. Absolutely. So actually, you gave a great segue because we're going to move on to our third topic here, which is retirement planning. We'll go with Julie again here on her thoughts on retirement planning and then we'll return back to you, Maureen. [00:35:02] Speaker C: So you heard me say earlier when I was naming all my careers and how I went from one to the other and it seemed like it just flowed. And it did flow. And I've had it. I have had a really great life. But not everything always grow goes as planned. And so I had planned my career, but it did not go as planned. And although I have absolutely no regrets, you know, you always plan. Well, I do anyways. You plan a certain, you see it a certain way. And I had such a great career with the rcmp, I absolutely loved the work I did there. I loved the people and I love the organization, what it stands for. I had a major burnout before I got to retire. So I didn't get to retire the way I wanted to retire the way I had kind of envisioned it. All your life, right? You, you work for 30 years and you kind of have a mental picture of how it's going to be. And so I kind of missed out on that. Something like that you don't see coming. It just hits you and. Yeah, and Covid for me was big factor of how it led me to that because when we started working from home, I was already, was already someone who. I loved my work. And so I worked a lot of hours. And when Covid happened, and we went and started working from home. I didn't stop. I just worked. There was no more, you know, no more reason for me to stop. So I worked even longer hours, and it was detrimental to my health, my physical health, and then my. My mental health. So I never saw it coming. And I was so mad at myself because it. It did not. It changed the way I had pictured. You know, I had it all planned. So. But in spite of that, and then, you know, alternated my plan, I. I did. I was able to reinvent myself again, I guess, and to unlock my potential again, you have to figure out what it is that you want to do. I could have stayed retired, but, I mean, my plan was never to just stay retired. I wanted to retire from the government and then do some contracting. So after I recuperated, I just said, okay, now shake it off, like, it's time to move on. And we moved as well. We had a couple of things. So we did what we had planned to do. And then, yeah, it started to align or, you know, I wanted to have my own contracting company and then start contracting, which is very different from what I've ever done before. And so it all worked out in the end. And I love what I'm doing now and everything. The dust has settled and everything is good. But retirement may not look the way you think it will. Some people I know are very afraid of being bored, or some people are afraid of maybe running out of money or whatever. But I think no matter how much you plan it, the chance that it'll go exactly how you planned. You know, there's planning that goes into that, but there's also rolling with it and adjusting. And, you know, we're still young now when we retire. It's not like before. So we still have, you know, a lot to give, I think. And there's so many ways to. No, gone are the days, I think, where we. Well, I learned that. So let me add that last piece. I had to learn it the hard way that you have to get more fulfillment out of yourself, out of your self worth. Fulfillment and self worth. I was getting a lot of that from my work, and I never realized it because I have a lot of amazing friends, and we do a lot of dancing and traveling and singing and enjoying life. So I get a lot of fulfillment and happiness from that too. So when I realized how much it affected me to not, you know, not be able to go back to work and finish what I wanted to do, I realized, oh, my God, I'm identifying My self worth to my job. When did this happen? Like, you know, I am more than my job. This is ridiculous. But it took me a while to get over that. A lot longer than I ever expected. So I had to learn from that and say, okay, hold on there. There's more to me than just work. I mean I, I have other things. And so you have to go through that mentally too and get prepared for that. We are more than just our work and we have to have a big life outside of our work and we have to be prepared to live that life. And it's scary, it can be scary. But you know, mentally ready, maybe get do it little by little. And there's so many options that weren't there before. Now you can do, you know, partial retirements or there's different organizations that offer different things and, and I think you can take course. Well, I know you can take courses and speak to people. I would encourage people, speak to other people that have retired and ask them what they've done, you know, so. And I know Maureen has a lot to say about that as well. And she had a great retirement as well. And she surprised all of us. And I was very mad at her for a long time after she just announced it and disappeared. But I mean she had it all planned and it was so wonderful. That was another inspiration for me though, to see someone retire and just be so happy. It was wonderful. So that's something else I would suggest for people to look for that and talk to these people. Yep. [00:41:13] Speaker B: I have to say an important lesson and everything that you mentioned there, which I, I loved is not everything goes as planned. It goes for. Not just for retirement, for everything. So what you did was you adopted, which is super important and to, to adopt and figure out the next steps and the next situations. And you were here to talk about it, which is super, super awesome, Julie. So I really appreciate your, your thoughts on that. What's your thoughts summary. [00:41:44] Speaker A: So I love that Julie and I, we're friends and our lives have been so diverse. Right. Yet similar. Right. You know that similar themes and similar veins, but diverse. So throughout my career I was always told, you will know when you're ready for retirement. And I was like, how do you know? Like who's gonna. How, how will I ever know? Well, I knew at 33 years, I knew and I retired. I gave my two weeks notice and I retired. I was done. And I wanted to just move on and do other things. I was grateful for my time there. I had like outside interests and hobbies like we spoke about things I wanted to do. We had renovations in the home we wanted to do. I basically took a whole year off just for me. Like, I did my yoga, I did my walks. You know, we did things in the house here that we wanted to do that never got to. And cleaned up things and purged things. And earlier on, like, I'm sure over a decade ago, I had taken meditation classes, which I still do and I love. I've since taken up golf and we travel. So my retirement was great. I did not look back. I was not bored. I. I had things to do. I did not know where my days went sometimes, and I still hadn't done the dishes. So seriously was great. And what I really liked about retirement is that I was in control if I was going to do something now, right? So when the opportunity came up, almost a year into my retirement, to work casual at the legislative Building as a sessional usher from someone I knew, I said yes. It was the first time. I'm like, okay, maybe I could work again casual, you know, a couple days here and there. So I did do that, but it was on my own terms, right? And so after that, this came up to work with Natural Resources Canada. I'm an investigator for them and I work from home. And I said yes to that. And so I'll be coming up on my third casual contract with them. And I so enjoy it. It's my terms. It's how many days I want to work. You know, if I don't want to work a Friday or I have to go golfing, it's still retirement for me. And I have the control to do that. Right. And I get that. I was never tied to my identity. We're in policing world and rcmp. Lots of people are tied to their identity of who they are in that company or who they are in that organization. I was never. I was never tied to my identity like that. I had a whole nother identity outside of that. I fully committed to my job. I worked hard for 33 years. I'm proud of what I accomplished with everybody and amazing people that I met. But I think that's where some people falter, is that they're tied to their identity and like you said, don't have those outside interests, which is hard. It's hard in the policing world, right? It's hard because there's trust issues and stuff. But I don't know if it's easier for women sometimes not to be tied to their identity in their world. I'm not sure, but I definitely Wasn't So for me, my retirement turned out how I wanted it to and how I expected it to and on my terms, which maybe made all the difference in the world. [00:45:11] Speaker B: I love your story and I just love you're saying, not tied to your identity. I think that's super, super important and super value and I hope that the listeners take that to note that, you know, when you are again, you have to have stuff that's going on outside and if you can't. And I understand, you know, I work and I've worked in professions where confidentiality is super important and. Yes. And people understand that. And I think, you know, if, you know, people were, you know, apologizing. I've had people that have apologized to me that said, oh, I can't really talk about that and I'm really sorry and it's okay, I totally understand. You have, you're bound by your confidentiality of your profession and there's nothing wrong with that. And by, see, you know, when you say it in a certain way, people will respect that and they will understand why you can't or the things that you can't divulge. And that goes for in the job as well. There's certain things that your manager is going to tell you that be able to tell you and there's certain things they're not going to be able to tell you. That's just part of your career, that's part of life. It's the part of the way that things go. So it's a super, super valuable comment for sure. Listen, ladies, I really enjoyed this conversation. This was super awesome, super valuable. Is there any final thoughts from any of you? I know that Maureen, you potentially have, maybe have a poem that you'd like to close out the conversation with. [00:46:44] Speaker A: Yeah, I. I'm just an amateur writer, so just so you know. But I did write this poem and I. It resonated with me. So I'll just read it for you. It's called Broken Glass. You see, the thing about broken glass is the beauty it holds. As the light refracts on the different sized shards, the reflections within each shard show movement and glimpses of all those who are still to come and all those who broke that glass to start. That's the thing with glass ceilings. Once they are broken, they can't be fixed or rebuilt. Even if they're all glued back together, they form beautiful seams to hold the memories, to create scars of beauty and to pave the way for the strength to come. One shard and one light prism at a time, therefore we are grateful for the broken, Grateful for the first pieces of glass to fall, Grateful for the chaos it may have caused, Grateful for the little shards that may have cut, Grateful for the cuts that may have bled on the reflections. And so very grateful to hear the shattered. [00:47:45] Speaker B: I love that. That's a beautiful poem. Thank you so much for sharing that. Julie, is there anything that you'd like to say to close things out? [00:47:55] Speaker C: Well, I want to say that that poem she wrote, and it was for the, the first troop of the rcmp, the first women troop of the rcmp. And she read that at their reunion this year at their celebration. So she made everybody cry, including me. That's she's such a good writer. Other than that, no, I think, I think this was very fun to do. Very interesting. And I knew we could talk and talk and talk. Hopefully it was interesting to hear to your listeners. But thank you so much for having us. And yeah, I hope that someone gets something out of it to make them think that they can go forward and do do something that maybe they're afraid of or have been afraid of going and doing right. [00:48:49] Speaker B: Listen, I want to take the time. I want to give you both your flowers. You were both truly inspirational ladies. I wanted to have you both on to have this discussion because, you know, we can. Anybody that's listening, whether you're, you know, and whatever career that you're in, whether you're in leadership, whether you're in hr, whether you're a business owner, all these things are part of your life and life cycle and your career. So I think that everybody is going to take notice and, and hear from the experiences of the, of the two of you. So thank you so much for, for taking the time for me today. I really appreciate both of you and I appreciate the stories and the things that you shared with us today. [00:49:36] Speaker C: Thanks for having us. [00:49:37] Speaker A: Thank you. [00:49:38] Speaker B: You're very welcome. [00:49:39] Speaker A: Thanks. [00:49:40] Speaker B: So on behalf of myself, my guests Julie and Maureen, I like to thank you all for listening today. And until next time, be safe. And remember, everyone, that if we all work together, we can accomplish. [00:49:55] Speaker C: You have been listening to let's Be. [00:49:57] Speaker A: Diverse with Andrew Stout to stay up to date with future content. Hit Subscribe.