Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Opinions expressed in this episode are personal. They do not necessarily reflect the views of this streaming platform.
[00:00:10] Speaker B: Good day, wonderful people, and welcome to another edition of let's Be Diverse. I am your host, Andrew Stout. This episode is dedicated to all my loved ones who supported me through this journey. Those who have left us will always be in our hearts and will never be forgotten. Today our topic is what leadership? What leadership doesn't prepare for what leadership didn't prepare us for. The lessons you learn in real time. Our guest today is someone who is true, dynamic individual. Her name is Jen Gomez. Jen, welcome to the show. So happy to have you on here today.
[00:00:45] Speaker A: Andrew, thank you so much. It is truly a gift to be here with you and your audience today. Thank you so much.
[00:00:51] Speaker B: You're very welcome. Jen, how are things going with you? Give us the tea, give us the deets. What's going on? Tell me what's happening.
[00:00:58] Speaker A: So much is happening, Andrew. I mean, first of all, getting to be guests on podcasts like this, such a gift, such a joy. A lot of speaking on stages and coaching leaders in ways that they did not expect. You know, as leaders, we want to do more, be better, grow more. But we often forget that it's not about adding more. It's actually about being more selective and being more intentional in the moment. So it's been really great to give leaders what they want, but then really give them what they need.
[00:01:30] Speaker B: I love that. I love that that you just said everything of all I believe in as far as leadership goes. You just said it all in a nutshell there. So I. I love that. Thank you so much for sharing that and I'm so glad to hear that things are going well. It's been a while since the last time you and I had spoken. So glad to see that things are going well, that you're speaking a lot of engagements. People should hear you speaking way more as that's my opinion. And hopefully we'll see more people wanting to have you speaking at events after this episode for sure. So thank you so much for. For sharing all that.
[00:02:03] Speaker A: Well, that would be such a delight. And, and one thing I did not mention that is probably the neatest thing is I'm writing a book.
I am writing a book. It is set to launch this year in 2026. It has to, too, because I'm already booked for keynotes on the book. So it has to launch. It has no. I have no. I have no excuses, but it's going to be called Joy in the Chaos. All about how you root yourself in Joy during those really difficult situations so that you can stay in authority without losing what matters most.
[00:02:34] Speaker B: Oh, I love that. And congratulations on the book. That is amazing. It's something that I have thought about as well. So it's something that, who knows, might be in the radar and if not for 2026, maybe in 2027. But it's something that I have thought about more and more lately. So I just love it. And people that are around me, there are lots of connections and people that I look up to that are putting books out as well. And it's kind of inspiring me, I think, to, to look at that. So awesome.
[00:03:04] Speaker A: Good, good. It's so important as a thought leader, anyone who has a collection of thoughts or beliefs to put it down in a book or put it down in a course or put it in a blog, however you can get to to people. Because it's not for nothing, those thoughts, those beliefs, those dreams, they're in you for a reason and, and people are waiting for you to get it out for them so that you can transform their life.
[00:03:30] Speaker B: I'm so excited to get into this conversation. But before we begin, I always have a fun, thought provoking question that I ask all my guests to get things that. To get things going. Are you ready for yours today?
[00:03:42] Speaker A: I am ready, Andrew.
[00:03:45] Speaker B: So your question is if you could instantly master any skill without practice, which one would you choose and why?
[00:03:54] Speaker A: Wow. Any skill.
Wow. I guess it would be. What is the word? It's not. It's not time travel, but it would be going from place to place in an instant, in a moment. What is that called?
[00:04:09] Speaker B: Well, I would say time travel, but yeah, I think it's time travel. I would call it time travel.
[00:04:14] Speaker A: I don't really want to go back in time to change anything and I don't want to go into the future. I just want to be able to.
What is the word? It's. You just move from one space to the next. I love traveling and I love meeting people and I love being able to get places quickly. But just the travel time in between, it's just. That is probably one skill that I would love to be able to have just to blink and go to Paris, blink and go to Dubai, blink and go anywhere around the world. I truly believe that travel is something that we do not give ourselves enough permission to do because we're too busy to do it. So think about that. If you had the ability to travel without the travel time, if you could just blink and go somewhere and go experience a new culture, go Experience a new leadership style. Go experience a new landscape. It just broadens your. Your scope of reality. And as much as we can travel, I. I just think it's so important to not only make it a priority, but also just carve out time for yourself. Carve out time for yourself and go travel. You do have time. You're not making time.
[00:05:21] Speaker B: Love that. That is. That is so cool what you just said, because you're absolutely right. If I could travel to and what's really cool, yes, Paris, all those places, but all the people that I've met along the way here, to just travel and, oh, you're speaking at this event. Boom, I'm there, I want to go and see it. And then you're there to travel and you're back with your family and still able to. To hang out with the family and supper and all that stuff. Evening, Evening chores and stuff like that. That would be so cool to, to be able to do both.
[00:05:50] Speaker A: Right? I know, I know. Just really go experience the world in ways that you haven't before. And I think there's a lot of fear that's around that. Fear in the unknown, fear in taking off work, fear in.
In just what's going to happen while I'm gone. How are we going to find money to do this? Right. You just.
There's so much fear in us every single day. And that's why, really, whether I liked it or not, I became a speaker on Joy.
[00:06:20] Speaker B: That's awesome.
[00:06:21] Speaker A: Because I was so tired of so many leaders and people and myself living in fear.
[00:06:26] Speaker B: I love that. So, to set the stage here, Jen, can you share a bit about your past and the purpose that drives your leadership today?
[00:06:34] Speaker A: Absolutely. Well, so, as you know, Andrew, we spoke quite a few, quite a bit the last time we met. But I've always been incredibly ambitious, ever since I was a child. Just incredibly driven, incredibly ambitious. Really felt out of the ordinary. I never really felt like I was part of a group. I traveled a lot, I moved around a lot. Parents divorced when I was very young, and I lived primarily with my mother, but that forced me to travel and go see my father about once a year. Went to different high schools, different middle schools, so never really found or felt grounded, rooted, foundational. But I do look at that as a gift. If anyone else had those childhoods, look at that as a gift. It's wonderful that you were able to experience so much as a child versus I didn't have any roots. Right. So incredibly ambitious, really driven in my career. Loved professional development, leadership development. I Actually was a stage actor for many years. So that is like the pinnacle of professional development because you not only have to get to know yourself self, but then you have to strip down yourself to then take on the personality of someone else.
Absolute layers of psychology, leadership at a level that most people don't get the opportunity to, to experience. So if you're wanting to level up your leadership, go take an acting class, go take an improv class and really watch yourself expand your capacity, expand. It's really, really neat. And I, I never really saw the correlation until I started getting into more leadership and coaching and thinking, oh my gosh, what a gift at stage acting and improv skills are in the world of leadership and specifically in business as well. So I, up until a few years ago, was working in leadership. Most recently I was in an executive office for our governor here in Louisiana. I was with his office for six years, running operations alongside his wife, the first lady. And it was the coolest and most difficult job I've ever had. It was very, very high stress. And when I look back at my career, Andrew, I lived in Los Angeles for years. It was almost like I craved high stress environment.
It's almost like I, I put myself into the belly of the beast every time. And I wasn't afraid to jump in a deep end that I may not be prepared for. Now what would happen though is because I would have my acting skills, I would act or I would, I would pretend like I was ready, but I really didn't have this foundational leadership skills that one trul to be a great leader in the moment. And so over my, my decades of being in leadership, that really was where I was trying to bridge the gap the most is yes, I'm, I feel physically ready, but am I emotionally, am I mentally, am I foundationally ready to really lead people? Which is by definition a person who people follow. Leadership isn't about forcing people to follow you. It's about inadvertently having them follow you. It's inspiring people to follow you. It's having that energy and that joy, that certainty, that foundation, that solid ground of people to be able to trust you and walk with you. And so over the years, that's really what I worked on. And by the end of my time at the governor's office, I said, okay, now it's time for me to go teach people how to do this, how to find joy in the chaos, how to be the solid ground without losing who you are or joy in the process. I believe that life is meant to be enjoyed. It was not meant to be afraid and sad and angry. And I have all of those emotions as well. We all do. But which one are you letting be in control? And how are you able to inspire others when all those negative emotions are in control? Right. So over the past three years I have been writing this book, coaching leaders, speaking on as many stages as I can to really bring a different definition of leadership to the conversation of you don't have to be this overwhelmed, angry, frustrated leader. You can really build a team, a culture that is rooted in joy and trust so that you can enjoy yourself within the office instead of otherwise.
[00:10:51] Speaker B: Wow, you said so many amazing things there. I love when you talked about, you know, you're, you're talking about, you loved your professional development. And I know we're going to talk about this, I'm sure, throughout this conversation, but I think that a lot of leaders today are either afraid, they don't know how or they don't feel like they need to look at their professional development. And I think that it's super important to look at different ways that we can lead our teams. And you talked about taking an acting class. That is super cool that you mentioned that. I just did a post a few days back about the Olympics and how I love the Olympics and how the Olympics relates to leadership. How these athletes take years and years and years to develop for maybe two minutes of time that they're going to be performing and in an instant they could be like successful or not. And then it's like, okay, well what do I do? So it's the ongoing persistence that they have to do their, there's their, do their job and do what they're training to do and everything. I think just, I think leadership is in the middle and everything circles around leadership as far as I'm concerned. And you can take leadership and you can put it to any, any facet of whether it's personal or professional or however you want to look at it.
[00:12:13] Speaker A: I completely agree. Well, and at the end of the day, it's not about winning or losing. It's about having a love of the game in and of itself. It's, you mentioned there's, there's a lot of things that I could kind of crack open in what you just said, but you mentioned that there are some leaders who are not interested in professional development. I do a lot of one on one executive coaching and you can tell when someone is not coachable, when they're closed off, when they're like, I'm good, I've been up hard of Vistage, I've done this, I've done that. I'm going to tell you right now, if you are somebody who says that you probably need coaching the most and here is why. Because every single person is not finished developing, you never will be. You have to be open to growth. Now maybe I am not the right coach for you and that is fine. But be open to learning, to growing by, to seeing what else you can discover with inside you so that you can impact others around you with that advanced knowledge. I heard something from Ryan Leak the other day that really has stuck with me for a while. He said self awareness is not about how you see yourself, it's about how others see you. And so of course we all know what 360 assessments are, right? You have your staff come and tell you how you're leading. But what I find is really interesting is having staff being coached by someone like me and then I can go back and relay the actual truth. Because staff sometimes doesn't. They don't tell you the truth. Especially if you're somebody who doesn't want to be coached, who thinks you have it all together. So I sometimes come and bridge that gap as well to say, here's what's really going on and this is where we really need to open up, be a little more vulnerable with the team, share a little bit more purpose, share a little more communication. This is really where Joy is the differentiator, because I'm not. You see a lot of speakers on Joy and they're like, hey, let's be happy, fun. And I could certainly niche into that Persona as a past actor when I swear to you, Andrew, everyone around me was like, Jen, you have to talk on Joy. You have to talk on joy. And I said no. I was like, I'm. Because I automatically went into the pers. I was like, I'm not going to go into this person that's not me. But what I do believe joy is, is not a feeling or an emotion or some sort of toxic positivity that you're pushing through out of all the emotions. I look at it as a foundational solid ground of a state of being so that your people can come to you and trust you and you can be balanced and you can, you can be somebody who they enjoy being around. And I'm not sure if I've said this already, but the definition of the word enjoy is to make or create joy. You have to be the catalyst in the, in, in that situation. And so how do we make or create joy within our Team, we have to make or create joy within ourselves, which then goes into a deeper conversation in and of itself. And so that's really where a lot of the root of my work goes.
[00:15:17] Speaker B: You just mentioned the word joy. So that kind of is a.
A great segue into what we want to discuss next, which is why do you think joy has been dismissed in leadership spaces, especially in high performance cultures?
[00:15:34] Speaker A: Because they think it's soft. They think it's soft. They think it's a woo woo soft skill. And that's exactly why I didn't want to be a speaker on joy. I said, nobody's going to take me seriously. Everyone's going to say, oh, she's, she does the soft skill. But I look at it as a performance advantage. If you can tap into a space of joy, which let me tell you, in human psychology, joy is one rung down from enlightenment. So we're talking about ease, peace, calm. Joy is not exuberant. Over the top, unbound joy is foundationally stable. Okay, so that is my definition of joy. You can be bright, but it's not an external brightness. It's coming from the inside. It is having people feel warmth when they're around you that is a performance advantage. When you're able to walk in the room and before you even speak, people trust you. If you want buy in, you have to find joy within yourself so that you can be that energetically for other people. That is nervous system regulation.
That is communication. That is staying calm under pressure. There are so many ways that you can tap into that space, but people aren't talking about it enough. And another component is capacity work. I've seen so many leaders that are at max capacity. And again, I'm not talking about adding more to your plate. I'm talking about refining what's already on your plate, being selective about what's on your plate. I don't know about you or any of your listeners, but I thought success meant burnout.
I was like, I worked for the governor. I also ran a massive sales business on the side. I would wake up in the morning, go to bed super, super late, like running my business before and after work. And then I was like, well, I want to get all these awards, so I have to join a nonprofit so that I can, like, show that I'm philanthropic. So I also was a chief of staff for a major nonprofit organization. And. And I'm also a mom of two. And then I was running these retreats on the, on the side. I was everywhere. I was, I, I thought that's what you had to do. I thought that was like, that was a high performer. And I was so. I was so triggered. I was so testy. I was so angry. Anytime people would ask me for deliverables, I'd be like, who do they think that they are that I can get this to them overnight? Jen, that's when you need to take a look in the mirror.
[00:17:51] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
[00:17:52] Speaker A: It's not their fault that they're asking for the deliverable. It's your fault for not being selective about what was on your plate in the first place. Success is not burnout. Success is not hustle. I make more money and I'm at more peace now than I ever have been in my entire career. And it's because I stopped adding and I started being more selective.
[00:18:10] Speaker B: I agree with you 100% on that. And I'm going to talk about this podcast. It's all. When I started this podcast, it was just me, a podcast. But the leadership skills and the experience that I had has taught me how to run this podcast successfully. And one of the things that I did realize when you said that, when you're talking about burnout, I was like, when I first started it, I was going like bananas. I was like working like seven days a week. I was working, like so many hours trying to get this thing out. And I will tell you something, the podcast continues to grow, but I have seen so much growth in the last year.
And I was doing. Not that I was doing less, but I found myself saying, okay, this is what we're going to do. I've made a schedule of things I want to accomplish for the day, and I check it off each time it's done. And at 4 o', clock, I've shut down, shut the computer down, shut everything down. My phone goes upstairs in my bedroom, and that's it. My wife finishes work, we have supper and we sit around, we watch a few shows and relax. And I felt so much more relaxed, Jen. Then when I was hustling, bustling, I got to get this out, I got to do this, I got to do that, I got to do that. And now I just realized, like, hey, I don't have to do. I could still do that stuff, but I can do it at a. Where I'm comfortable and where I'm not absolutely exhausted. And I didn't want to hate what I was doing as well. So, absolutely, let's do that.
[00:19:46] Speaker A: You had focus, you had clarity, and you were able to confidence stack because you were able to give yourself small daily goals. Check them off and then enjoy your life on the backside of that. We're all so. It's like we're all in a race, in an imaginary race. But in reality, as soon as you achieve the goal, the goal post moves and moves and moves and moves. So if you do not stop yourself and say, what? What am I doing? What is this all for? I told one of my clients that. He's like, oh, yeah, I'm on eight boards. And I also do this. And I also do this. And I said, why? Why are you doing all of it? Because if there's a why behind it, I said, are you trying to run for political office? Because that's different. You have to have a visibility. You have to get involved in the community. I understand that. But if you're just doing it because you chasing achievement, you will never be satisfied. You will never, ever, ever feel fulfilled. And again, the point of life is to enjoy it, be successful. I want you to be successful. I want you to make all the money. I want you to have all the power. I want you to be so incredibly successful. But I want you to do it in a way that feels sustainable and feels good and feels like you have purpose and meaning behind every single thing that you're doing with your core values at the front. And not just because you feel like you have to win the race for some unknown reason, just maybe childhood trauma or because my neighbor's doing this. So I need to go do this. No, stop. This is the point of the book as well. It's to stop looking out the window and start looking in the mirror.
[00:21:24] Speaker B: So we might have talked or you might have touched on this a little bit. But I wanted to go a little bit more in depth here. If we have what happens to creativity and problem solving when joy is absent from leadership?
[00:21:37] Speaker A: Well, I'm sure that you've experienced this, Andrew. It completely diminishes. You feel overwhelmed, you feel blocked. You feel like a complete loser. Like, why can I not propel forward? What is wrong? Why? We try to think our way out of it. And you can't think your way out of overwhelm. You can't think your way out of burnout. You have to start eliminating. I do what's called duplicating and dissolve. So we find the things that are really pulling joy out of you. We dissolve that out of your day. We dissolve that out of your life. Some of them are a little bit harder than others. And then the things that do really bring you joy, which it could be family, it could be A hobby. It could be listening to music, going to the movies, running. How can we add more of that into your life so that you can expand creativity? There's a business coach that.
Goodness. His name is Dan, and now I'm forgetting his last name. But he, he said that in his company, I think out of 365 days in the year, he takes off 162 of them, something like that. And the reason is he's not just going to Jamaica to go lounge on the beach. He's removing himself from the day to day so that he can go read. He said he reads newsletters, he reads books, he listens to podcasts. He's constantly absorbing and giving him space, his brain space, to creatively think so that he can come back into the office and actually be an asset to the people who are running the business. So that's also phase two. He said whenever you remove yourself, it gives your. Your staff autonomy to actually run the business, which is what needs to happen. If you are the CEO of the business or if you are the founder of the business, you need to let them run it a little bit. So there's a lot of different reasons for why. Making sure that you are rooted in joy, making sure that you have things that are lighting you up in your day, that you are reminding yourself of. What I call joy anchors. Is there something that's happened recently that makes you feel warm inside, that makes you feel good, makes you feel rooted in gratitude, that physiologically changes you, and it makes it able for your brain to open up and be more creative, more innovative. You'll be able to just feel lighter than if you are buried in stress. Deadlines. I get it. I've been there. It's up to you to draw a line in the sand.
[00:24:06] Speaker B: We have to. I agree with you. We have to have intention with what we're doing. If we don't have any intention, if we're just going like you said before and doing things all over the place and with no rhyme or reason, then, yeah, we're gonna be lost. But if we, if we're intentionally planning things and this is the reason why I'm doing, like you said before, you ask the guy, well, why are you doing that? If we know why we're doing it, then there's a. That, Absolutely. But if you have no idea why you're doing it, then I think there's a problem.
[00:24:33] Speaker A: Yes, well, conviction, if you look at the word conviction right, it is, it is a. It is a desire. It is a draw. It is motivation to get something done. And those that are the most convicted within an office are the ones that have purpose or a why behind the work that they do. So when I look at Joy, I look at purpose, I look at boundaries. And sometimes the leader, really, all the time, the leader sets the stage for that. So if you are someone who's never taking off of work, if you are somebody who's cramming your calendar all day long, if you are somebody who's showing up even when you're sick, goodness gracious, y', all, please. If you've got. If you're sick, stay home.
It's not even about you. Okay? Those three examples that I said are not about you. You are setting the stage for your staff to never take a day off, come in when they're sick, cram their calendar filled. You are creating little monsters. It is up to you to create more space in your day, not only so that you're a better leader, you're more of an enjoyable leader, but so that your staff can see that and they resemble that as well. And then they get to mentor the next generation. And then they get to mentor the next generation. This is not just about you today, your staff. It is about a legacy that you're leaving. It really does start with you.
[00:25:55] Speaker B: Yeah. And you don't want them to feel obligated just because you're staying and working 18 hours a day that they feel that they have to do. To all. My leader, Jen, my leader is doing this. So I got to. I got to work 18 hours a day as well, because that's what they're doing.
That's. That's not the case. And it shouldn't be the case at all that you have that expectation of your people working more than they're supposed to, because then they. Then you get people that are pushing themselves away rather than pushing themselves into a situation and giving their all.
[00:26:32] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. And there are times where all hands on board. We've got to do this together. But why have a reason on the back end? Root it in purpose. Root it in. A reason that includes everybody or doesn't include everybody. This is, I need to stay to do this. But also you should probably be delegating some of what you're doing.
Let's talk about Joy for a second. Are you enjoying the 18 hour workday?
But you know, sometimes you do have to do it. But that's where communication comes into play. Are you communicating with your staff? Are you building that solid ground?
[00:27:08] Speaker B: So how can Joy become an inclusive leadership practice? Rather than a privilege.
[00:27:14] Speaker A: Well, it's intentionality. First of all, I think we've been conditioned to experience joy after we've achieved something to experience joy at in retirement. But we are starting to see a generational shift, which is really interesting. You'll see. So I'll be 40 in June. Big four. Oh, I'm so excited. Anyone that's like, ew, 40. I'm like, get out of here. This 40 is exciting. I'm sorry. I'm pumped 40 to 50, even 50. I'm going to be like, let's rent out a roller skating rink. We're going to have some fun. Now I've lost my train of thought. I got so excited about my 40s.
Okay. Generational. I think there's this whole generational shift where there was a lot there and there still is this. This older generation that's like, keep your head down, stay at work, raise your. Rise up the ranks by doing a good job. And then you've got this. This next generation where they kind of job hop. And then you've got this next generation that's like, I don't want to work unless it is driven in my purpose, want to travel, and I don't care if I have tons of credit card debt. And I think that none of it's wrong, none of it's bad. It is just something to be aware of. Because in the reality, the older generation needs the younger generation to come in as a succession. And so, again, not that one is right or one is wrong, but if your younger generation is wanting more purpose and joy, that's how you should be modeling your leadership. So you should be making that a priority in. We are investing in team culture advancement. We are investing in executive coaches that can come in and help us connect with each other and help us understand joy at a rudimentary level and help us understand how we can establish boundaries without dropping in productivity. Because, Andrew, whether we like it or not, everything comes back to the bottom line. So how can we make joy a priority without a dip in revenue? And here's where I will say I'm jumping ahead. I know we have a KPI. Can I just. Can I just dive right into it?
[00:29:16] Speaker B: Go. Go ahead. Let's do it.
[00:29:18] Speaker A: So this is really where that. That KPI of joy comes into play, is that if you are running an organization that is not rooted in joy, that is not rooted in trust in purpose, you will see that affect the bottom line because your retention is going to increase. Your people are going to leave, they're going to think that they can go build businesses on their own. They're going to go to offices where they feel more appreciated. You may not see. See it spike in revenue coming in, or you may, but you're really going to see it in the decline of your overall bottom line, because you are not going to have people who are happy. You're not going to have people that are productive. You're going to be spending money on all of these things that if you just prioritized things a little bit differently, you would see increase in revenue, increase in retention. You would see your people a lot happier.
[00:30:08] Speaker B: So I'm going to give you two examples here of what you just said there as far as Joy. So these are two experiences that I've had throughout my career. So the one experience was I did a podcast episode on this. A solo episode on the company pizza party and this organization I was working for. We were working on a project that probably took us a couple of months to do. We were working like you talked about, putting our heads to the grindstone and getting this project done. And once it was done, management sent out an email saying, hey, we told you, we're ordering pizza. Pizzas in the lunchroom with soft drinks. Go ahead and grab it. Okay? But no, like, nobody in there to come in and say, hey, we're ordering this, but we really want to truly say thank you for all the hard work that you did the last couple of months. They just said, here's a pizza, Go ahead, grab what you want, and that's it. Then in another position that I had, this manager came around a day before or two days before, say, tomorrow or Friday, don't bring lunch. I'm buying lunch for everybody. And they did that probably about six or seven times throughout the year. No rhyme, no reason. Jen. They just decided, just because I'm gonna buy my staff lunch. So what do you think you're talking about Joy here? If you were to ask people, if you were to do a survey and the listeners, I'd like you to think about this. What would you think an employee would be more happier with the pizza party that nobody gave any recognition for, for the hard work or the just because I'm gonna buy you lunch, what do you think they went for? I'm gonna say Golden Lemon. I'm gonna say, just because lunch is the one that's memorable, because this is something that happened. These two situations happened probably about 15 years ago, and I'm still talking about them. But there. There's a positive part of it, and there's a negative kind of condensation on both.
[00:32:14] Speaker A: I laugh. You might have seen me like laughing while you were telling me the first story. Because I use that scenario in my keynote that your staff does not want another pizza party. I literally say that in my.
[00:32:27] Speaker B: I love it.
[00:32:27] Speaker A: Not the answer. Okay, so we're going to really break this down of why.
And it's so easy, y'.
[00:32:34] Speaker B: All.
[00:32:35] Speaker A: It's so simple. Okay. It all goes back to influence and trust. And it starts with moments of joy. People buy in to people that they trust and they feel seen by. Wait, I do not. Nor does anyone else feel seen by an easy click of a pizza button. You think that is easy, but it is more intentional and takes more time. And it is a little bit surprising when you have someone who it's not really maybe their job or it's not really their duty or it's a little bit outside of the scope of responsibility where they're going a little. It's just one little. One little percent above and beyond. And it makes you feel.
It's not about what you say. It's about how you make them feel. It makes them feel appreciated. So if you're someone who it is easier, let's just say it. Call a spade a spade. To do the pizza party, do it in a way that's intentional. Maybe have the pizza party and then also have one on one meetings with everybody explaining how their part was incredibly important to this project being completed. Or maybe you have handwritten notes to everybody that you pass out. But if you are a leader who just tell. Told their assistant, told their assistant to go order pizza for everybody and put it in the lounge and then the assistant sends out an email saying, hey guys, great work. Pizza for everybody. You, you really. I, I want to. This is where my soft side comes out. I want a whole space for the leader who thinks that they're doing a good job really, because you do. You're like, order them pizza. Great work. And so now here we are saying, no, you're doing it wrong. You may think you're doing it right, but we're here to tell you it's a little bit bigger than that. You need to go a little bit wider. Right. I think about my kids when we are talking about this. So I have two kids, they're 10 and 6. And when somebody told me this, it stuck with me forever. They said, kids spell love T I, M, E.
And it is no different with a team. You have to dedicate time to your team. Non distracted time. And I'm not telling you it has to be a lot, but it's in those tiny little moments of joy, those tiny little moments of I see you, I appreciate you, I hear you. Those are what make all the difference. We're not talking about rocket science here. We're not talking about some like massive, you know, book and, and leadership workshop, which I do have those. But we're not talking about these, these massive shifts. It's really, it goes down to being so incredibly self aware that it's not about how you're seeing yourself, it's about how others are seeing you. That you can see that can you can be the person that they need you to be in the moment they need you most.
[00:35:20] Speaker B: I'm going to piggyback on what you said about the managers not knowing, and I want to hold space for that as well. I agree with you 100%.
I think it's a case that a lot of them think that they're doing good because they don't know any better. And for listeners, I'm not making the excuses for leaders not doing their job the way you'd like it or see it or what have you or how they make you feel. I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is, is that they don't know any better.
And I think it's up to them and the organization to make sure that if you're gonna have a pizza party to do it correctly. If you're gonna order lunch for people, do it correctly. If you're gonna send a note like you said to staff or send an email out to people thanking them for the job they did do it correctly, put a little vulnerability in it, put a little compassion in it, make them like, oh my God, walking away from your desk. And you know, you don't want to make people cry, not, not intentionally, but to make them feel like, oh my God, that was so beautiful what they just said. Like, I'm gonna what, what else do they need? I'm gonna go and I'm gonna see them and I'm gonna ask them, what, what, what do you need? Is there something else that you guys are working on that I can help with? Then you got them engaged, Jen. You have them full on engaged.
[00:36:42] Speaker A: Yes. So it's not. When we speak about Joy, it's really activ.
Which then comes back to influence and buy in, which then ties back to the bottom line. And I think that's why where I'm coming from with speaking on Joy is a little bit different than other speakers on Joy who are like life coaching. Let's talk about Joy, which I love. I just also have a master's in business and I love operations and systems and the bottom line. So I'm like, but how can we take this one step further? How can we. And I've never been someone to slow down. Right. I've never been someone who wanted less or wanted to, to not achieve so much, but I, I. At the cost of what.
[00:37:25] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
[00:37:27] Speaker A: There's, there's so much that can be said. And, and I will be honest, as a Gemini enneagram7, I want to talk about all the facets of Joy all the time. And I have to like, really just say, okay, Jen, you will, but let's just focus on leadership. Let's just focus on team culture. Let's just talk can really raise the profits within an organization rooting in Joy, communication, trust. And so that's been a lot of the work that I've been doing over the past few years.
[00:37:52] Speaker B: Well, you, you talk about joy and we've talked about joy. You mentioned the word joy because that's our, the focal point of our discussion today. And I think if you, if you're bringing joy, then the environment is going to be such a safe working environment. And that's what we want to create. We want to create a safe working environment so that people are, and I know people are going to say to me, oh my God, Andrew, you're, you're, you know, you're nuts to say excited to go to work, but there are people that are excited to go to work because they enjoy their job, they enjoy their co workers, they enjoy the environment.
That's what you want to create. And when you create that, you're going to have these people sticking around for years and years and years and they're going to be talking about that company and you want to have them talking about your brand. They're like the biggest brand ambassadors for your company. When someone says to you, I'm sure listeners have had this, and I'm sure you've had this, Jen, people coming up to you, oh, you worked for this company. How was it, how was it to work there? What's it like there? So your answer is going to be key. Either you're going to be like, oh my God, such a great place to work. I love it there. I love the environment, I love the atmosphere, I love my job, I love my boss, I love everybody.
Compared to, oh my God, I hate that place. I don't, I, I can't stand to go there. I wouldn't recommend it to anybody. Which one would you think that you would prefer?
[00:39:16] Speaker A: Right, right. And, and to be clear as well, sometimes it's not about having them overly excited to come to work every day because we all have bad days.
[00:39:27] Speaker B: Well, for sure we do.
[00:39:28] Speaker A: You know, we're all struggling with moments of grief. We're all struggling with something, but it's about them not hating coming to work every day.
[00:39:35] Speaker B: Right, right, right.
[00:39:36] Speaker A: It's about not brewing the toxicity within the organization where people are going into little pods to chit chat about each other.
Right. How can you find just a little bit of balance? How can you have just a little bit of non commotion within the organization where people enjoy. Enjoy coming to work, they enjoy the boss, they enjoy their co workers. Everyone has an understanding of who each other are. Assessments are great for that. If you have not done an assessment with your team 1000%, reach out to me. I will tell you which ones are good and which ones you need. But assessments are incredibly good. Understand your people, understand yourself. And then once you have that understanding, you can start building trust within the organization, understanding what people need, what they want, what they're not getting. And at the end of the day, not everybody is right for certain roles or certain organizations. They may be for a moment and then you have to have, as the leader, you have to have the backbone to say, this is how we're operating here. I will gladly help you find another role within the organization or outside, but this is how we need to operate. Keep you said this earlier. Have boundaries not just with yourself, but within your organization. Be true to your mission statement and understand what you want and do not want within your organization. So this is not about being soft and letting things slide at all. This is about staying firm. I'm sure you can see this picture up here. This is, this is Lady Tiger. This is my leadership style. Right. I'm kind and I'm joyful and I'm considerate and compassionate. But I also am extremely firm because I have high expectations of my team. We cannot achieve the maximum if we cannot have clear expectations of what is required of us. Right. So it's okay to be joyful. Joyful, but also firm. And so I'm actually getting a lot into this and I'm about to launch my next group coaching cohort. This one's specifically for women. It's eight weeks.
[00:41:32] Speaker B: Nice.
[00:41:32] Speaker A: And it's called Joyfully Aligned. But it's all about staying rooted in authority, being able to continue to have that firmness but also be rooted in joy. So these are for, this is for female leaders who want to continue to have that, that tiger energy but also not forget about their femininity on the back end of that. So if anyone's interested, please reach out.
[00:41:53] Speaker B: That's wonderful. And I love when you talk about joy too as well. You're saying so even. And you're right. Not every time is going to, or not every day is going to be good. Not every time is going to be good. It's not all sunshine and rainbows as I say a lot. But the joy for me is during those times when things are not going greatest. So coming back after being sick for a few days or coming back after saying goodbye to a family member and coming back into that environment, the joy is then because that is when you're, when you have a situation where it's not joyful, that person kind of, oh my God, I gotta go back there tomorrow. And you know, how are they gonna react rather than you go back and they're like, oh, it's nice to see you Andrew. And you know, sorry, you know, and didn't even have to go into any dang details. Nice to have you back. Let us know if you need anything, let us know if you need help or anything or let us know if you just need to talk. We're going to be there for you, Jen. That makes somebody feel so much better.
[00:42:56] Speaker A: Absolutely. Like they're being seen. Like they're being seen. So this is definitely a two way street, right? It it. There are so many days where all of us have felt like that. I don't want to go into the office today. I don't want to do this today. I am just not there. Whether it's any energetically or spiritually or whatever it is, there are those days where you just do not want to go and those are the days where you have to dig the deepest and say, this is not about me. How do I want to show up for the people that I am around? Because your energy, I actually talk about this in one of my talks as well. Your energy can be felt up to eight feet away from you. So if you're in a crummy mood, guess what? That's going into other people now. The other people that are on the receiving end of the, of the crummy mood. It is up to you in that moment to deflect or to say, no, I'm not going to absorb this in your head, right? Not, not verbally, but for you to say, say this is not about me. Like this person has Been out sick for three days and I bet that they are having a really hard time coming back into the office, right? Having an understanding of this is not personal. It is. Okay? The moment that you absorb that crummy mood, guess what? Now your energy is affecting somebody else. So it's is about ultimate self awareness of how are you walking into a room, what energy are you receiving from other people? Now we're going into executive presence, right? What energy are you receiving from other people, good or bad? And how is that affecting the way that you lead? So how can you be so into the minutiae of how you are operating and showing up every single day? And here's the real ninja move. You ready? You get to control that. You get to control your thoughts, thoughts, your words and your actions. Outside of that, you are out of control of anything, everything. Control your thoughts, control your words, control your actions. In that moment, say, I'm in a bad mood. This is going to affect people around me. Take a deep breath, center your nervous system. Root yourself into those joy anchors. For me, it's my kids, right? It's just like seeing those big smiles on their faces. I just love them. Or maybe it's a client win that I recently had. This just makes me feel really good. Shift that energy and then walk into the room. It's a quick pause, quick fix. You are in control even though you don't want to be or you don't feel like you can be.
[00:45:04] Speaker B: You can.
[00:45:05] Speaker A: I give you permission. Here you go.
And be the, be the person that it starts with.
[00:45:10] Speaker B: So Jen, you might have talked about it, you might have done it, but I want to give you a chance to put a little bow on this conversation here. So before we wrap up, what is one takeaway that you'd like our listeners to remember from this episode?
[00:45:24] Speaker A: One takeaway to remember is that you are in control of the things you can control. Your thoughts, your words and your actions. It is so simple. But you remember that because anything else that's out of your control should not be in control of you. When you remember that your life, you were put on this earth, truly, no matter what you believe, no matter who you are, it doesn't matter. You were put on this earth to enjoy your life.
And so if you are not, that is a signal. That is a signal and for every single person, it is uniquely different. Hopefully that this, this book that launches this year will help you figure that out and how you can continue to strive, continue to lead, continue to be in control of the things that you're in control of without losing authority and with keeping Joy at the center.
[00:46:18] Speaker B: My call to action today is to like and share and follow this episode. I want to take the time to thank you for coming on today, Jen. I just admire your energy, your drive, your mindset and how working with you creates an unforgettable experience.
And that is what I'm taking from this conversation today. It's been an unforgettable experience.
You are a phenomenal individual and I am so absolutely grateful that you took the time to have this conversation with us today. So thank you.
[00:46:49] Speaker A: Thank you so much Andrew. Truly it has been a gift. Thank you so much for your listeners and for the great conversation today.
[00:46:55] Speaker B: You're very welcome. On behalf of myself and my guest Jen, I'd like to thank you all for listening today. And until next time, be safe. And remember everyone that if we all work together, we can accomplish anything you.
[00:47:08] Speaker A: Have been listening to. Let's be diverse with Andrew Stout to stay up to date with future content. Hit subscribe.
[00:47:40] Speaker B: Sam.
It.
Sam.
