Team Culture

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Opinions expressed in this episode are personal. [00:00:03] Speaker B: They do not necessarily reflect the views of this streaming platform. [00:00:10] Speaker A: Good day, everyone, and welcome to another edition of let's Be Diverse. I am your host, Anthony Stout. This episode is dedicated to all my loved ones who supported me through this journey. Those who have left us will always be in our hearts and will never be forgotten. Today our topic is exploring team culture. I wanted to get into this because culture is a big word. Some people might call it a buzzword, but it's a big word. Lots of people are talking about it and I wanted to combine team with culture and today to find an awesome guest to have this conversation with. So today our guest is Alexandra Suchman. Alexandra, thank you so much for joining us today. I'm so thrilled to have you on. [00:00:53] Speaker B: I'm excited too. Thank you. [00:00:55] Speaker A: You're very welcome. How are things with you? What's going on in your world? What's going on? Give us the deets, give us the tea, give us it all. [00:01:03] Speaker B: Oh, gosh. As usual, probably a lot of other people who are solopreneurs or entrepreneurs relate to probably too much going on, too many things in the cooker and falls up in the air, whatever metaphor you want to use. But that's just how I think. I've always been someone that likes to be involved in several different things, whether it's having many different groups of friends or different hobbies or different projects going on. I think I'm worried I'll get bored or stop being creative or curious if I just focus on one thing. [00:01:37] Speaker A: Yes, it keeps the mind going, eh? [00:01:39] Speaker B: For sure it does. And I never cease to find things to be interested in and curious about and want to learn more about and problems that I think I can help solve or explore further. And if something piques my interest, I gotta. I gotta dig in. [00:01:57] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree with you 100%. It's almost like those always those conversations of that we're gonna fix the world or we're gonna come up with all these world solutions to the world and all the stuff that's going on. So I love that you do that because I try to do the same thing and, you know, I don't think I have the perfect solutions or the answers, but I always like to try to figure stuff out as well. So I love that. [00:02:22] Speaker B: Yeah, well, one thing that, that just came to mind is that I'm really grateful to my father for actually when we were kids, my brother and I were kids and our family would have dinner every evening instead of asking us, what did you do at school today or what did you learn? He would always ask us, did you ask any good questions today? And it took me a really long time to really appreciate what he was doing, but he was really teaching us to be curious, to explore things, to see what's beyond the surface and ask why things are the way they are, what's driving people, and to be curious about what's going on in people's minds and what's the history of things and what's the story. And now as an adult, I really appreciate that and appreciate the skill of knowing not only that's it, okay to ask questions, but that there's a lot of value that comes from asking questions. [00:03:21] Speaker A: And I think a lot of people are afraid to ask questions. And I always, I ask tons of questions. I'm not afraid to ask them. I'll ask tons. And. But some people are afraid and I don't know why. I don't know. I think it's maybe it's because they. If they asked and it's because they don't know and they've don't want to look like they don't know, but it's okay. [00:03:43] Speaker B: That's kind of the perfect segue into talking about team culture, huh? [00:03:47] Speaker A: It certainly is. It certainly is. But before we get to that, I'm looking forward so much to getting into that conversation. But before we begin, I always have a fun, thought provoking question to ask my guests to get things going. Are you ready for yours today, Alexandra? [00:04:04] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm excited. I've been listening to what you've asked other guests, curious for what my hot seat topic is going to be. [00:04:13] Speaker A: My question to you is, if you could pick one new skill in an instant, what would it be? [00:04:22] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh, that's a really good one. The thing that jumped into my mind, which is really funny, because if I thought about it more, I don't think it would be it, but I would love to speak other languages. Oh, nice. So interested in how people think and the nuance of how our experience and how our environment shapes how we see the world and how we express ourselves. And so I think being able to understand a ton of different languages, to capture the nuance of how people think and what their expectations and norms are and how that's set by the language and culture that they came from, I think that'd be pretty awesome. [00:04:58] Speaker A: I love that. Is there a particular language that you would like to learn or is there any particular languages that you'd like to learn? [00:05:05] Speaker B: I studied Spanish for a Very long time growing up and can understand a lot but got very intimidated by the grammatical rules and was so afraid that I was going to make a mistake in how I was conjugating a verb or pronouncing a word that I was too afraid to ever really speak it. And so I would love to at some point. My bucket list is to be able to be conversational in Spanish and to just not be afraid of making a mistake because I talk to people who, who don't speak perfect English all the time and it doesn't bother me at all. I know exactly what they're trying to say and, and we can have a beautiful conversation and I really am admire that they're not afraid to make a mistake that they're able to just speak and you know, for the sake of communicating. [00:05:52] Speaker A: Yeah, I love, I love that. Well, I speak two languages myself, so I speak French and English. I grew up speaking both languages. Growing up in a. My parents were of mixed race, so my mother was French Canadian, so Quebecois and my father was from Barbados, so West Indian. So it was interesting to see their different cultures and living in Quebec. You have to know how to speak French in order to basically to survive. Really like to work, to go out, buy things like you just need to know the language. So it was pretty cool to learn it. And I'm so happy that I. That I can speak both for sure. [00:06:38] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think it's almost not even just speaking multiple languages, but being able to understand and not just empathize with, but really fully identify with different cultures, whether it's different countries or different regions or even just being close with several different, you know, different families. I mean for me, I have my biological family and then I have my in laws and they're, they're very different cultures. They think really differently. They have different norms and being able to, to be open to how other people do things and that they are going to perceive the world differently and express themselves differently. I think that's a superpower. I think that's really the key to, to stronger connection and being able to, for you know, people to accomplish more together and to feel part of something and feel fulfilled in life. [00:07:24] Speaker A: I love it. I love it. Well, thank you for so much for, for having fun with me and your amazing answer. I love the fact that you thought of something spot on. So that was pretty cool. I enjoyed that. So thank you so much. Why don't we start off with you telling us a little about you yourself and your wow and your why. [00:07:43] Speaker B: Yeah, I've always been a problem solver for as long as I can remember. And I like the act of figuring things out. And I've applied it in different settings throughout my life. But I love the idea of creating something from bits of information. I grew up in a really creative house. My mom's an artist, and so we were just encouraged to think outside the box and look beyond the obvious. So between my mother as the artist and my dad teaching us to ask questions, it was, it was a very creative and free thinking household. And you know, when I was, you know, probably middle school, high school, I started noticing that I was the friend that people would come to with their problems and, you know, want advice or, you know, want to get my opinion. And I really loved that role. And it made me realize I wanted to, I wanted to help people. I wanted to help them see their lives differently and be able to be the happiest and most fulfilled version of themselves that they can be. And thought that I wanted to be a psychologist and to turn that into a career. So that's what I studied in undergrad. And long story short, I'm too emotional, probably too empathetic to have gone into mental health as a career. So I spent about 10 years in public policy, specifically around health and social issues, and loved it. I was in my 20s and I said I could change the world. We can make better policies, we can provide better access to care for people, we can fix some of the programs that are out there so that they could serve more people. And in doing that work in a couple of different environments, I noticed that what got in the way of the ultimate outcomes of the work being done and people's motivation to continue doing the work was just a long list of dysfunctions within the workplace. And I became very obsessed with that. All of these unforced errors and small misunderstandings or oversights that ended up becoming huge divisions. And that's the problem that I became very obsessed with solving, is if everybody has to work or most people have to work, you are going to interact with other people over the course of doing work. And for me, you know, I've always valued relationships and connections with other people above all else. And so any opportunity that I've had to get to know somebody else and to be together, to work together on something, has been something that I really value and I think is so important for most people. But the experience of work for a lot of people is not that. It's very us versus them. And you know, I do everything right and all my colleagues don't know what they're talking about or they're trying to sabotage me. And it's set up to pit people against each other and make it so much easier to see other people as adversaries rather than as partners. And I've just become pretty obsessed with this problem of if people are working in the same company and on the same team, there's a very obvious shared goal, set of shared goals and set of values and objectives that should tie them together. So how do you make it feel like it, how do you make them feel like they're part of something and accountable to each other and motivated to see the best in each other and keep that going? So that's. For the last decade or so, that's been my obsession both personally and professionally. [00:11:47] Speaker A: You made me think of something that a leader had taught me when I was years ago and that was problems and mistakes create opportunities. So it's something that's kind of stuck with me and I believe, or I'm a firm believer that up, you know, we have an opportunity to create opportunities for ourselves and when something is not working, then there's an opportunity to fix it or there's an opportunity to look at it or maybe not having to fix it fully, but okay, how can we adjust this or whatever to make it work so it's something again, that's stuck with me over the years. And, and I always call it areas of opportunity. So there's always areas of opportunity to, to fix whatever situation that we have or we need to overcome. [00:12:46] Speaker B: Yeah, I think you're spot on. And there's so many missed opportunities to do that together at work about big things and about small things. When everybody wants, I don't know, let's say every Friday a team has to put out a certain type of report. Nobody wants to be working late on Friday. Nobody wants to have to redo somebody else's work or for somebody else to have to redo their work. Everybody wants it to be a smooth and successful process. But if you don't take the time to reflect on it, if you don't take the time to look for what are those little opportunities and recognize that everybody is equally accountable for the process going well and for the outcome turning out the way that you want it to, you're just going to keep repeating the same mistakes and keep piling on the negative feelings and rather than go through this process together of figuring out how to make it better and co creating and I think there's several reasons why that doesn't happen, which I'M happy to get into, but to me, that's like the lowest hanging fruit of something that teams could do that not only would have better outcomes because they would figure out how to do the work better, but in the process would trust each other more and feel more accountable to each other and feel like they can be creative and take ownership of. [00:14:11] Speaker A: The work that they're doing it. I love everything you said there. It's a perfect segue into our conversation today. So for our guest today, again, our topic is we're going to be talking about team culture. What I want to know from you is how do you define team culture? [00:14:35] Speaker B: Yeah, it's one of those words that means so many things to the point where it almost doesn't mean anything. But the way that I see team culture, there's a say like a fish doesn't realize that it lives in water. The water just is the environment that it's in. And then everything, you know, everything that's in the water is just seen as a given. And I think culture is the same way. I think culture is everything that affects the day to day and the more macro level experience of being on a team. So it's a lot of people think of it as, do I like the people that I work with? Do I feel like I can be myself with them? Do I, you know, do I trust them? Do I want to be around them? Yes, those are aspects of culture. But it goes a lot deeper than that. It's everything within a work environment that either facilitates people's success or stands in the way of their success. So it includes not just do people like each other? Are there the means to have positive relationships? But do they have the right tools? Do people have access to the right information and resources that they need to do their job when they need them? Do they know who to go to when they have different types of questions and different types of needs? And are there easy channels to access those people and those resources or are there hurdles along the way? Do they know how decisions are made? It's a really, you know, there's so many different variables that go into it that affect both the macro and the micro, micro experience of what it's like to do your work and be part of your team? [00:16:18] Speaker A: I think you're spot on there because I, you know, when you're, when you're thinking about team culture, one of the things I think that people think about, especially if, like you mentioned, you know, am I going to get along with this person and I get along with that person if Something happened the day before and any wake up and you're single, I got to go to work. You're kind of like weary of going in because of the things that happened the day before. So you're kind of like weary and how's it going to go and how am I going to handle the situation? And and so I think it does affect, it does affect culture for sure. And it is day to day. It's everything that is involved in your day to day tasks, people around you, how the day is going. You know, did I take my, you know, did I take my lunch on time or gonna have to take it early? Did I take my breaks on time? How much extra work am I gonna get? Who's this person that keeps coming, you know, in my office? Disturbing. Like all these things are coming to play for as far as the day to day tasks that you talk about. [00:17:30] Speaker B: Yeah. One of the definitions of culture that I've heard that I don't think it's quite comprehensive enough, but I really like where it's coming from. Is a culture is defined by what. Oh, I can't remember what, what problems or what inefficiencies will be tolerated. And so if you have a culture where the same problem keeps happening over and over again and everybody acknowledges it and everybody complains about it, but nobody does anything about it, that's your culture. You can really like the people that you work with and, you know, respect them as people. But if you're all constantly frustrated because this process is so outdated, that's your culture and you need to own it. And everybody is part of that. So I think to some extent it is like, what will, what will you put up with and what are you trying to change? And are you, are people, do they feel empowered and motivated to try to change the things where they see opportunities for change and improvement? [00:18:32] Speaker A: So I think you might have gone a little bit, but I want to kind of delve into this a little bit deeper because I think this is a really important question here that I think our listeners will, will, will enjoy. And then so what I want to know is what are the keys to a successful team culture? [00:18:49] Speaker B: There are a couple of them. One is shared accountability. It is very, very easy. And I hear this a lot people to say to talk about the culture as if it's something that exists outside of them. The culture is already set and I'm just a passive recipient of it. Everybody is an active contributor to the culture that they are in. And that's not to say everybody's Impact is equal in sort of size. But every situation that you show up in, you're going to influence the outcome, you're going to influence how it goes, and people have to have to own up to that. So I've heard many, many times. In fact, this is one of the types of things that drove me to feel like I have to work for myself. I can't work as part of somebody else's organization, was people complaining about all these things that are the problem. And I do everything perfectly, and it's everybody else who needs to change. And if that's everybody's mindset, which often it is, I'm the one who knows everything. I'm the one who's doing it right, and it's everybody else. If everybody has that assumption, you can't get anywhere. There's no trust, there's no sense of shared accountability. There's no ownership over work. There's no, people aren't showing up authentically, and that's a pretty crappy environment to be in. So I think the shared accountability and ownership is one of the most important elements. There's a lot of people out there. The buzzword out now about psychological safety, but really what that means is, do people feel like they can be human, have emotions and ask questions and state opinions and look for opportunities and ideas? You know, are people. Do people feel like their basic needs are going to be met, they're not going to be ostracized, they're not going to be punished for being human? And I think that's a huge, a huge part of it. I think empathy is a massive component of healthy culture, of recognizing that we all have different experiences, we all have different perspectives that are informed by whatever environment we grew up in, whatever education we have, whatever hobbies we have, everything that makes up our lives, and everyone does equally valid. They're, they're different and they're all equally valid. And how do you see that as to make the whole more than the sum of its parts, rather than, you know, divisions that, that end up causing a lot of tension. [00:22:01] Speaker A: I love when you, you talked about accountability. Everyone has a shared accountability. I, you know, when you're walking into an organization and they have that culture and you are just walking in, you're like, okay, well, this is what they, this is the culture. I have to kind of go with the culture. I have to understand the culture. I have to believe in the culture. But in some cases, it doesn't allow somebody coming in to be innovative and creative and come up with different ideas, because that culture is already set. So they, they, they have no direction as far as, you know, what changes can be made. And, and it doesn't allow anybody. I think people are afraid. You talked about it before. I think people are afraid to be. When they're thinking about being innovative and creative, they're afraid to be vulnerable. And that vulnerable factor is affecting a lot of people's mindset because they're afraid to come out and, and say what they're thinking or say that they don't agree with something. They just will just be bystanders and they'll go along with it and that's fine. But then, you know, don't, you know, don't be upset with the outcomes. If you're not gonna, if you're not gonna say anything or if you're not gonna step up to the plate to ch. Make a change in the culture will then, you know, just, just follow it. [00:23:35] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I, that's spot on. And I think the flip side of that is there's a lot of leaders out there who might say, I have an open door policy and I welcome ideas. And you know, I want people to feel like they can be vulnerable, but if every time somebody approaches them, they're like, oh, this isn't a good time, I'm too frazzled, or they're always in a bad mood, or, you know, their initial response, even if it's not, you know, ultimately response, but if, you know, they flinch or they, they sort of get defensive and then come around to it, well, you're not really communicating that you're open to that, even though you think you are. We all, you know, we all act on autopilot a lot of the time and maybe aren't aware of what some of our reflexes are and instincts. And that's our part of the accountability is for everybody to own up to actively working on becoming the best version of yourself and recognizing we're all works in progress. [00:24:39] Speaker A: Right. And I mentioned vulnerability and that, you know, when you're, when someone is coming into your office and you're not in a great firm of minor. You're, you got a lot of stuff going on. Like there's, you know, that communication factor. Just say, hey, listen, I have a lot, I have a few things going on and I need to fix these things. I need to get on these right away. These are top priority, top of mind. But I promise I will come and get you at your desk or I'll send you a team message to come and see me when I am able to Give you the full attention that this, this may need. [00:25:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:18] Speaker A: So at least you're kind of, you're, you're making it important, but you're making them understand that this is where you're at, rather than, like you said, just telling them, like, I don't have time for this right now. I can't do it, or I'm not like, you know, you just have the person walking out of the office going like, oh, my God, like, you know, maybe I, I won't go back there to see them again because that's probably what I'm going to get. So they're a little bit timid at that point to go and see their, their. [00:25:48] Speaker B: I think there's, there's such a strong push to pretend that humans are like computers in how we work and that we're all rational all the time and, you know, are all driven by the same measures of success and efficiency. And that is absolutely not true. And when you have that mentality, when, when that's the, that's the culture, the expectation, you're stripping out everything that makes humans, humans, all of the beautiful and messy and nuanced stuff. So if people don't feel like they can say, I'm having a bad day, like, please just like, give me a little bit of grace, or hey, you said something, and I'm not really sure what you meant by it. I just want to have some clarification. Can we dig into that a little bit more? Or. You know what, I'm really excited about this and I want to keep doing this, but it would work better if we could structure the conversation this way. A lot of it is just being able to advocate for yourself and tell people what are the conditions in which you thrive, what are the conditions that hold you back? And how can everybody. Again, the accountability is coming up, but how can everybody take some accountability to make the best work environment that they can? But it's two sides of that. There's the expression of vulnerability first, and it has to be universal. [00:27:14] Speaker A: So we talked about how culture affects our day to day and that we all need to be. We discussed how that we all need to be accountable for every part of the culture. Why do you think that leaders or individual contributors struggle with team culture? Because it's something that I see, I've seen throughout my career quite often. Why do you think that is? [00:27:42] Speaker B: Oh, this is a big question. I think the. There's a lot of contributors. One is, especially over the last 20 years or so, with technology really taking over every aspect of our Life. There is this driving folk notion that you can simplify and quantify and optimize everything. And you know, again, what it comes down to is you're not leaving space for any of the humanity, any of the creativity and emotional experience and vulnerability and relationships and sort of serendipitous opportunities for, you know, for change and development. And it's really tempting to think that you can kind of get through things really easily and life moves along on this linear path. Yes, it would be really efficient. And so there's this. I think our search for maximizing efficiency and optimizing for efficiency and for a very specific type of success has set really unrealistic expectations about what work really looks like and how time is best spent and what people's goals and measures of success really should be. [00:29:15] Speaker A: You talk about humanity and there's no place for humanity. So I know for yourself, you and your company, they do talk about. I've heard you talking many times about play at work. Do you think that this will help? Like, do you believe that your philosophy of play at work will help, will help to build team culture? Or do you feel like, do you see that it is. [00:29:46] Speaker B: I actually, I actually think that play is the most, the most effective tool for having con, not just having conversations about culture, but for learning and practicing interpersonal skills, collaborative skills, emotional intelligence, for getting people to buy into the process of change and the need for change and to practice doing things a different way. I think play any type of game or activity, there's some shared objective that people have, whether it's competitive or collaborative. You're buying into whatever the challenge is at the heart of the game. And, you know, whatever the rules are, whatever equipment and mechanics are within the game, people have to engage in certain behaviors to get through it, to get to that objective. And so it's a really great way to explore in a very low stakes situation how people show up and why they show up the way that they do, and whether it's just for the sake of fun. Let's say you and I started playing charades right now. And we would laugh, it would be funny, we would make wild guesses about what the other one was trying to express. But we would have this moment where we're both bought in to this game and to the idea that we wanted to guess what the other person is acting out. And afterwards that's something that we've gone through together and that's really valuable and we can talk about it. Maybe an inside joke would have come out of that. And there's There's. It opens up so much to talk about. About, hey, you know, why did you think to act out this clue the way that you did? I would have thought about it in a different way. And that gets into how do you understand certain words? What connotations do we have? I might realize that you're really good at acting things out and that coming up with creative ways to express things that I would. And that's a skill that you have that. Now that I know you have that skill. Well, Andrew, you're going to be the person I go to whenever I need to think creatively for this type of problem solving. There's just so much that you can reflect on about play and ways to apply those reflections that really open up the conversations about the entire everything having to do with team culture. [00:32:16] Speaker A: So I've had a lot, I had a lot of opportunity to, to read up on a lot of it before we start taping today. And one of the things that caught my attention was the fact that, you know, when you're playing a game and doesn't matter what it is. Like, you mentioned charades. It could be cards or whatever, whatever it is, and you're, you're, you're amongst team members, the first thing that they were talking about was bonding because you're having. It's, it's a, it's a less stressful environment. But the other thing is, like you said, how someone acts, but also their answers or their, you know, maybe the way that they played a hand in the card game or the answer to the question that you might have asked them might have think, oh, okay, well, you know, as we're trying to build a culture, we're. We're getting to learn about individuals. We talked about it earlier, and this kind of gives me, you know, it can kind of give you a good indication of, oh, this. Oh, Andrew, Andrew answered it. Answered this to this question. This is. That was interesting to me because I can kind of see now how, you know, he is in this certain instance because of his answer. So it was really interesting to me to, to read up on that and research it. And it makes total sense to me. [00:33:43] Speaker B: Yeah, there's a lot of talk now, especially in the, you know, the DEI space, about assumptions. And that sounds sort of like an abstract thing. And, you know, we think of assumptions. A lot of it is like, well, do I assume that, you know, women are better than men or whatever, but really what assumptions are, are just what do you take to be true based on your lived experience? [00:34:08] Speaker A: Right. [00:34:09] Speaker B: And in every situation, we all come with our own assumptions, and we largely assume that everybody has the same assumptions that we do, and we don't really take time to explore what those assumptions are. And so much of that comes out when you're playing games, even before you even get to playing the game. Just in looking at how people respond to the instructions and what level of instruction they need to start to engage in the game. You know, some people will assume that everything that was explicitly given in the instructions and only those things are true. So if somebody, if there was something that wasn't explicitly said, we can't do it because it wasn't explicitly said. Some people will say, well, they didn't say we couldn't do it. So I'm going to assume that we can. And those are really different philosophy people have about life that can cause real tension in the workplace and in any of our relationships. And so having a conversation in the context of a game of, you know, some people assumed, well, you didn't say that we could ask questions or you didn't say that we could show our cards to other people. So I didn't do it. Well, why did you assume that? Is that the expectation that you want? You know, I think that's a really great analogy for work. Do people feel like they have to keep their cards close to their chest or do they feel like, you know what, within our team, it's an open hand. We all do a lot better if we can see what everybody else is working on. And so it's a nice way to make some of these implicit habits that we have explicit and talk about them and then figure out how to, how to utilize them to have a better working experience, to have a better culture. [00:35:52] Speaker A: And I think too, it kind of make, it makes me think as well, as far as, you know, you come up with that idea, so, oh, let's play this game. And you're. And some people will be like, okay, this seems. Might be fun, but there's probably some other people that may be like, oh, I don't want to. Want to play a game, whatever. So for me, that might tell me, like, okay, is this, you know, are they open to, are they open to new ideas? They open to hearing different things? Are they open to trying something new that would just tell me, like, for example, that, you know, if there's any changes that need to be made at the company. For example, I had a guest on, we're talking about who, she's a designer and she designs, she designs offices for, for companies to make it better for them and have a safe work environment. So some. One of the things that people don't like is moving. We talked about this, and one of the things I mentioned is people don't like to. Their boss comes to the end, says, oh, you know, we're gonna be moving you from this desk to this desk. So this game would tell me, like, are they open to. If we have to move them or are they kind of like, oh, well, no, I'm. I mean, nobody likes to like change. Nobody likes to move their desk. I've been in situations where I moved my desk and I, you know, wasn't like, okay, I guess I'll move. I wasn't too crazy about it, but I will move. So that's kind of makes me think of that too. [00:37:28] Speaker B: Yeah. And in the example that, that you just gave and thinking about what are. What are the different ways to use play to understand what's going on? You know, there's just noticing, hey, some people are more willing to go along with change than others. That's just a difference on the surface that's there. And there's some pretty predictable patterns. You know, these people tend to be more change, you know, change enthusiasts, and these people tend to be more change resistant. And then there's one level a little bit deeper. What's behind people's, you know, resistance or enthusiasm for change? And then what are some things that I can do to make people less resistant? Is it a matter of giving them the information, providing them the context in the way that they best receive information? Is it a matter of, you know, talking about a specific bad experience that they had that really caused this fear of change and helping them understand that those conditions are not applicable here? Is it giving them an opportunity to voice their concerns and just recognize, you know, what, in the first five minutes after we introduce the change, some people are going to feel really uncomfortable and they just need to do that. But then five minutes later, that initial reaction will pass, and then they can engage, you know, more rationally and with a full mind. So what are those accommodations? What are those things that you could do within the culture or within the process that are going to make space for those differences? And that is, you know, you can use play at all of those different levels to get at all those different, you know, all of those different insights. And then you can say, okay, so what can we do differently? Let's play this game again and we'll give the instructions in a different way and see if that makes the people who are initially uncomfortable More comfortable because we've done it in a way that addresses some of their concerns. [00:39:26] Speaker A: So through your experience and talking with different organizations and companies and talking about the stuff that you do, what. What do you think the future holds for team culture in your minds? [00:39:42] Speaker B: I think there's starting to be an more of an acknowledgment and understanding that culture is not something that exists outside of the work. It's really tempting to think we all have. These are the objectives that we have, these are our projects, these are our outcomes, this is how we're measuring progress. And then culture is whether we like each other while we're doing it. There's more and more hard evidence that it's really hard to accomplish your goals and objectives. If you have a really bad culture, people aren't going to feel as engaged, they're not going to feel as accountable. They're not going to be willing to share information. They're not going to be willing to own up to mistakes or ask questions when they don't have, when they don't know something. And that's just going to cause more problems down the line. So I think there's more of a recognition that leaders need to be proactive in what culture is and be more. Make more of an effort to understand how other people are experiencing the culture and whether they're experiencing it the way that's intended, and that anybody in any type of leadership or management position needs to be more proactive in modeling and fixing and continuously developing the culture to make the best work environment that they can. [00:41:11] Speaker A: I, you know, having so many conversations lately. One of the things I'm hearing is people talk when we're talking about culture that a lot of places or companies or organizations or leaders, they don't really understand what the actual culture is of their company or their environment. They don't understand it. They might have put it down the pen and paper, but to explain it, they. They don't know how to explain it. [00:41:47] Speaker B: Yeah, and that's actually one of the we, my team and I came up with a model for culture because we felt like there wasn't none of the existing definitions quite covered it. And they didn't link the individual experience to the outcomes. At the organizational level, you can't have a company full of employees who are really unhappy and the company is meeting all of their productivity goals or has really high customer service. You're not going to have successful outcomes if the people aren't happy. So what are the different dimensions of culture where the individual experience is directly connected to the outcomes and the output. And how does that manifest in what processes are in place? Whether people are clear on what their roles are, whether they know how decisions are made, and whether there's transparency about the process by which decisions are made. Whether people feel like there's a way for them to grow and develop within their roles and further contribute to the organization. So we have nine different dimensions of culture that all fall along these two axes of the individual. Experience at work, of work, and the intent and outcomes at the organizational level. [00:43:18] Speaker A: And I imagine communication is part of all of that. Yeah, without communication, we're not going to go far. Whatever processes or whatever we're doing, if we're not communicating, it's gonna. Everything is gonna falter, for sure. [00:43:33] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of people say, oh, how come communication isn't one of your components? And because it's everything. Communications is part of everything. [00:43:42] Speaker A: It certainly is. Certainly is. If you could choose one word to describe yourself, what word would that be? [00:43:50] Speaker B: Curious. [00:43:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:43:55] Speaker B: Yeah. Sometimes I feel like one of those kids that just asks, why? Why, why? Why? Because I want to. I just want to get to the root cause. I want to know the history and the context and the nuance behind it. Like, I feel like I love doing jigsaw puzzles, and I kind of feel like life is a jigsaw puzzle. Like, what are the other pieces? Okay. I kind of have a sense of this, but I can't fully understand what's going on here until I put this other section together and. And, you know, connect the dots. [00:44:32] Speaker A: That word for sure hits you, from what I know of you, what I time that we've spoken, that word is to a T you for sure. And I love people that are curious as well, because then you're asking, like you said, you're asking questions. You're. You're trying to figure stuff out, and you're, I think, being curious as far as in certain situations. But for me, curious is getting to know people as well, and that's building rapport. So you're. You're curious about somebody, you're curious getting to know them. And by doing that, you're asking questions, and that gets to know you, get to know that person, and then that just builds a stronger bond with that person because they're like, wow, she. They're. They're curious and they're asking questions about me. That's pretty cool. And then when you remember what you asked and you, you know, maybe a few days later or a week later or over, you know, on a Monday over the weekend, hey, you were doing this. You know, curious to find out how this went or you told me you were going to be doing this. How would that go? Like, it goes miles and miles for people. People remember that, like, forever. [00:45:46] Speaker B: Yeah. And, I mean, that's really one of the reasons I think games are such a great tool for connection is because, again, having that shared experience, you know, with a little bit of structure opens up so many more conversations to be curious about other people and to learn more about them. And, you know, you can even my. My husband, we've been together for almost 20 years. When we play games together, we still learn different things about each other. Like, huh, why did you think to do that move? Or oh, that's interesting that you, you know, you were trying to win the game this way, but I was thinking about it this way. You know, why are you thinking that? And what association does that bring up? It's a really great way to get to know people and get beyond small talk and really start to understand what makes them tick. [00:46:30] Speaker A: Yep. Super, super cool. Any final thoughts today? [00:46:38] Speaker B: No. I think, you know, if people listening to this, you know, feel a little bit inspired to be more curious and a little bit more playful in work and make room for some of that messy human stuff, that's ultimately going to make for a much more fulfilling work environment, you know, I hope I inspired some new insights for people. [00:47:01] Speaker A: You know, my call to action in this conversation is for teams or anybody that's listening. If you're a leader of a team or an organization like you, Alexandra is curious. Be curious about your team, be curious about your team members, and create a culture that your team members are so excited that they want to go into work every day and be part of something big. And when you create that, there are so many things that can open up from that. So my call to action is be curious, build rapport, and remember that your people are important. So by building rapport, you're showing them. So I want to take the time to thank you for coming on. Alexandra, I've had two conversations with you, and they were awesome. The first conversation, like I said, we joked, and I have said this about to a few people now, which kind of puts a smile on my face because I must be meeting some amazing individuals and you were one of them. That conversation, that first conversation, I. If we had, like another three hours and we didn't have to adult that day, I think we would have continued that conversation for another three hours. And that's the takeaway that I got from it. And I hung up the phone with that, thinking two things. Like, a, this is like such an amazing conversation and I was so pumped for the rest of the day. And B, I wanted more. Like I, you know, I wanted to. We talked about. Curious. I wanted to. I was curious about you as the individual because of the amazing things that you had said. And I wanted to learn more about you and the things that you did and your organization and your philosophies. I just wanted to learn more and that. That's what came out from it. And I just loved this conversation and it just, it. It filled my cup, as they'd say. And I'm super happy that you took the time to. To spend with me today. And so I want to take the time to thank you and. And I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did. [00:49:28] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And happy to continue the conversation anytime. [00:49:33] Speaker A: Well, I will hold you to that, Alexandra. I probably will hold you to that. On behalf of myself and my guest, Alexandra, I like to thank you all for listening today. Until next time, be safe. And remember, everybody, that if we all work together, we can accomplish anything you. [00:49:51] Speaker B: Have been listening to. [00:49:52] Speaker A: Let's be diverse with Andrew Stout. [00:49:55] Speaker B: To stay up to date with future content, hit subscribe.