Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Opinions expressed in this episode are personal. They do not necessarily reflect the views of this streaming platform.
[00:00:12] Speaker B: Good day, everyone, and welcome to another edition of let's Be diverse. I am your host, Andrew Stout. This episode is dedicated to all my loved ones who have supported me through this journey. Have you ever heard of Excellence Exhaustion? I didn't hear about it either until I met this guest. The guest My guest today is Nina Saucerman Pogue. Welcome to the show, Nina. We are so pleased to have you on today.
[00:00:42] Speaker A: Thank you, Andrea. It's a pleasure to be here. I look forward to this conversation.
[00:00:46] Speaker B: I so do I. How are things with you, Nina? What's going on? Tell us what's happening. What's the deeds? Give us the tea.
[00:00:54] Speaker A: There's so much. I live in Charleston, South Carolina. So as we're recording this, we are just on the other side of Tropical storm Debbie. So I've been locked down with my daughter in law and her three dogs. Added to my dog though because my son is out in California doing he's in the fourth year of med school out there. So anyway, we've had, we're coming out of the storm and then my mother just had surgery. She's 90. I've been taking care of her. So in between all of that I have been doing my own work and moving things forward. So a busy time. But you know what, one of the things I love to do is be there for my people. So it's all good.
[00:01:30] Speaker B: Absolutely. And yes, you seem like you got a lot going on and it's just keeping you on your toes. So there's no boredom happening over there.
[00:01:38] Speaker A: No, absolutely. Life is never boring in my life. And as we unfold this conversation, you and your viewers will hear more about my very non boring life can't wait.
[00:01:49] Speaker B: Well, I'm glad to hear that that you have a busy schedule that lots of things are going on. Glad to hear that everybody is healthy and safe and glad to hear as we're taping this, there is that tropical storm happening. So glad to hear that you are all well. Before we begin, I always have a fun, thought provoking question to ask my guests to get things going. Are you ready for yours today, Nina?
[00:02:15] Speaker A: I am ready. I hope I'm ready. Go for it.
[00:02:18] Speaker B: So your question today is if money doesn't grow on trees, why do banks have branches?
[00:02:27] Speaker A: Oh, I like this little conundrum here. Yeah, so money doesn't grow on trees. We all know that because we all work our asses off for it. So there's that the branches have trees, trees have branches and banks have branches. I think that's fascinating. I've never put that together. I think that was a poor choice of name for them. They could have had outposts or other things. So it's interesting that they decided to go with that phrase. I here's my Someone way back in the day when they were doing the whole banking industry said, hey, I'm going to come up with a phrase that money doesn't grow on trees. I think the banking banks called it branches before. See, some guy was like, oh wait, let's call them branches. And then I'll coin this phrase that money doesn't grow on trees. So it'll be a whole thing. There we go. That's my theory.
[00:03:20] Speaker B: That is a well thought out theory. I love it. Nina, thank you so much. I. When I saw that question and I thought, nina's going to bring it home and you delivered. So thank you so much for, for doing that, having fun with me. It. That was, that was awesome.
[00:03:38] Speaker A: It was fun. I have no idea how quick, how that actually works, but that's my theory. Now somebody back there's like, I'm coming up with a new phrase that's gonna live for decades. Live for all time.
[00:03:50] Speaker B: Absolutely. So, Nina, why don't we start off with you telling us a little about you, your story, and of course, your why.
[00:03:59] Speaker A: So I have had a very storied life. That's part of my story. And it started. I'll take you all the way back to my childhood. Sorry, folks, but I was an athlete when I was young. I was a gymnast and I competed and moved away from home at 13 to train for the Olympics and then trained, made the U.S. team, traveled all over the world. Japan, Hungary, Germany, Australia. And then didn't make the Olympics in 1984. Very crushing blow. So on the US team, Hihi don't make the Olympics. I bombed in a qualifying meet and there were other girls who were better than me. I just didn't make it. But after being on the COVID of magazines and being Olympic hopeful, everybody talks about you like that. It was devastating to go back to my high school. I was just embarrassed, shame, blame, all those things.
So really a down low moment. But then I came back and I was a top recruit and went to college and I went to LSU, which was a Division 1 wonderful program. And I competed for LSU, Louisiana State University and had an amazing experience there my freshman year. And then I blew out my knee. Now I'm going from another high high to a low low and I blew out my knee and lost my sport and really went through a tough time trying to figure out who I was without gymnastics. But I did muddle through that and figured my way out and figured my way through it. Not always gracefully and not always making the best decisions, but got through it. And then I found television. I was a news anchor and had real success in te. I was a journalist and then became an anchor. And in my, in the town that I ended up in, I was, you know, Charleston's favorite news anchor for 10 years in a row. I won an Emmy, best newscaster in the Southeast. Really top of my game, had some huge successes there. But during that time I also went through some lows. I went through a divorce. I was let go from one TV station. They went younger and blonder and I was let go in these national budget cuts that they did. And then I, and I, and I also went through a very devastating time at 37 and really wanted my life to end. I went through a very dark time and had a hard time going forward. This 37 year old, successful looking woman with three young kids, really struggling, but I find my way through that. And then I found tech and I went into tech, the tech sector and jumped into a friend's startup, had huge success there, took the company public and, and had a great IPO, one of the top 10 tech IPOs by Forbes magazine that year. So my life is a story of high highs and low lows. So some people introduce me as former US gymnast, Emmy award winning news anchor and you know, tech executive. But I speak and talk and write and really spend a lot of time in this stuff that's not the wins, but in the. Didn't make the Olympic team, lost my sport, went through tough times from divorce and drama and trauma. And I talk about the lows and how you get out of those lows. That's where I spend my time.
[00:06:50] Speaker B: So much I want to pack in here. So first off, it's amazing to me how you're able to, to get through all that stuff and, and move forward. You know, there's a lot of people in your story. There's a lot of people, I'm sure there's a lot of listeners who might have just decided, you know what, I, I'm gonna throw in a white towel and I'm just gonna move forward. And you, you stuck with it. And kudos to you for doing that and figuring out what you know. Especially a lot of sports athletes, they have the same situations as you. They get an injury and then you know, they go through school, they go through college, they figure, oh, I'm going to be a professional athlete. And then they blow their knee out. And then they gotta figure out what they're going to do. And then they have people who are leaders or that they. People they look up to as leaders who are trying to help them to figure out what they want to do next. But you seem like you wouldn't say you had it all together, but you took the time to think and process everything that happened with you. And, you know, okay, what do I do now? What's next? That's kind of my thought process in what you said to us. Our story.
[00:08:05] Speaker A: Yeah. So that. That is the thought process. And it wasn't until I was in my 50s and decided to step away from corporate once my kids had all left for college and really do the work and say, what did I do? What did I do right? How. How come I didn't get stuck? A lot of athletes, you know, get stuck after they lose their sport. A lot of people who get fired from a job get stuck in that unhappy place or go through a divorce get stuck in that unhappy place or have a traumatic event. They. They get stuck in that unhappy place, and sometimes they don't keep going. So what was it? What had I done to be able to not just survive those, but thrive on the other side of them because I went to bigger wins on the other side of each big failure or big fall.
So I spent a lot of time researching. You know, when I stepped away in my 50s, I had become this person. So, Andrew, I was the person that people would come to in the office and say, hey, I'm going through a tough time. Can you help me? You know, and sometimes that looked like just a woman I know who. Who lost her husband. And she just pulled me into a meeting room and said, can we talk? I'm really struggling. I hear you're good at helping people get through stuff. And sometimes it was somebody booking a meeting with me, you know, in a tiny little glass cube. I had probably 2, 300 people who reported up to me. But this is somebody who wasn't even on one of my teams when I was in corporate. And I'd be sitting in that little glass cube, and they. They'd start this conversation, and, you know, they'd schedule a sync on my calendar because they had access to my calendar. And I'm like, okay, this person doesn't even report to me. He's not working on any of my projects. Why am. What does this sink About. And then they'd say, hey, I just put this time on our calendar. You know, you don't know me, but I hear you're really good at helping people through, you know, tough times. And I'm really struggling. And the first thing in my head was always, I am not in hr. You know, I'm not actually working in hr. I'm the head of marketing, communications and media. I am not in that space. So that was always my first thought, but I was saying and doing things that were helping them. Sharing books I read and the way I think and some concepts they could lean into and some strategies they could use. And so in my 50s, I stepped away and did the homework and the research so I could reach more than just the one person at a time in a glass. Little glass cube meeting room. So I began my research and my writing and my first book all around. How do you do that? How come some people get stuck and don't move forward and really struggle and it's stuck in a chapter of their lives and it becomes their identifier and how some people don't let the tough times identify them and move forward and not just survive, but thrive. And so that's where I really dug in. And, you know, it's been almost seven years now of this research and writing and speaking. And it's so fascinating and took me a few years to come up with a framework. And it's a mix of science and stoicism in my own experiences, but it truly has commonalities across multiple industries and entrepreneurs and individuals and elite athletes and companies and corporations who have struggled and then survived. They've done these common things.
[00:11:05] Speaker B: I always say that especially when you're a good communicator, especially in leadership that you have, you need to have the ability to. To learn to. To listen for. To give feedback and to listen with pause, which is what I call it. And sounds like you had that ability. And that's probably what resonated with people. And that's probably why, even though you weren't in an HR position, that's probably why people went your direction, is because you had that ability. And I know that for a fact because we've spoken a few times now. And you were always that way with me, so I could definitely see that that was what people were looking at.
[00:11:49] Speaker A: Thank you, Andrew. I think that's a little bit of just my. My personality, for one. Even when I was on the US Team, I was voted Miss Congeniality the year that Mary Lou Retton won her first national Championships at usas. At that same usas, all the girls voted me Miss Congeniality. So I've had. It's part of my nature, obviously, but someone early in my career said, hey, it's much better to be interested than interesting. And so I've had a very interesting life, but I keep in the back of my mind all the time, hey, be interested, not interesting. And so then I became a journalist. And I've always been interested in people's stories. I've always been, always wanted to learn more. I believe everyone I meet has a story. And so it's really fascinating to me to learn people's stories and to actually listen. And, and so that may be part of how I'm wired, but thank you for noticing that. That's really kind.
[00:12:38] Speaker B: You're very welcome. And so this conversation. Thank you for sharing your story. Your story is a great segue to our conversation today. So again, we're talking about excellence, exhaustion.
What is the definition of excellence? Exhaustion, Nina.
[00:12:55] Speaker A: Okay, so this is a term that I've introduced into the world, into the workplace, specifically. And excellence. Exhaustion, the definition is a condition characterized by the relentless drive to surpass previous achievements, exacerbated by the perpetual demands of modern technology and constant connectivity. And this condition leads to diminished productivity and well being, ultimately resulting in some anxiety and decreased motivation. So, and the idea of this is there's burnout, that's one thing, but it's different from burnout. Unlike traditional burnout, excellent exhaustion specifically impacts those who are striving to maintain exceptional performance in this ever evolving, very competitive world we live in. It's folks who just, they keep hitting their KPIs or their targets or their goals or whatever. And then as soon as they hit them, they get more. No matter how hard they work, there's always more. So it's different than burnout, this general malaise, you know, and different than the symptoms of burnout are different than excellent exhaustion. And it really is focusing on what I'm seeing in the industry, across many industries as I speak on this. Hey, it never ends. We had the new technology, we're on our cell phones, we're connected to work, we never get a break. And if every time, even when I hit my targets, you know, what gets measured gets done. So everybody's measuring me all the time. As soon as I hit the target, they're measuring it. And up in the Annie. So how do I ever find some happiness in my journey to success? And when do I ever feel successful? Because there's always more. Like it is just this new type of exhaustion that we're all living in because the world around us has changed. We don't turn it off at 5 o'clock and go home and, and we don't hit a target. And then six months or a year later it's come up with something new. We instantly are handed something new. So it's just a different world we're living in. I think it's a new paradigm in the workplace and I've introduced the term because I don't think it's burnout. I think it's different from burnout and I think burnouts from doing the same thing over and over and over and you're just burned out, you know. But I think excellence, exhaustion is more of the world we live in now and it's not going anywhere. We have to figure out how to manage and handle ourselves and get through it. The symptoms are a little different and the, the, the effect that it has on people is a little different.
[00:15:16] Speaker B: I agree with you on that because I, I have had burnout. My, I've been burnt out myself. And from what you're explaining, it was not burnout. It's not, it's not the same as burnout. Burnout for me is you're just feel it, you're just not knowing what's going on. Like for me, I felt like everything around me was crumbling. Everything around me was falling apart and I could, I just could not figure out how to. It's like if I was in a hole and I was trying to dig myself out and it was all different things that are around me in this hole and I just couldn't seem to dig myself out. So that for me is burnout.
So when you're talking about dry, you know, when you say striving to maintain excellence for me, that thinks of, makes me think of an employee who feels like they need to do extra because they want to get that, they want to move up, they want to get that promotion. So they're, they're doing the extra thing or they're taking on the extra tasks or they're trying to do little things on the side to, to impress the people above them so that they would see that, so then they would be able to go into those positions. That for me, when you said that, that's what I thought of. Right. Automatically.
[00:16:45] Speaker A: Yeah. And I'll flip that a little bit because they're not doing these extra things to impress, to move up. I mean, maybe that's part of it, but they want to do better Be better, be more. They, they are the high achievers who are going the extra mile because they want to keep growing in their careers and move up and, and achieve more. So it's this, it's not your everyday, like prolonged exposure to. I'm doing the same thing every day. That's kind of burnout. That's my stress, my workloads a lot. Like I'm under time pressure. I don't have any control. I'm doing it, I'm doing it. I'm doing it. I'm burned out from doing the same thing every day. That's burnout, where excellent exhaustion is more. This relentless drive to, you know, get past your last accomplishments. And then you have also, you're constantly connected and they're pinging you at home and you feel like you got to work because you want to get better and all those things. But it's not just to impress someone. It's because you're wired like that that you just want to do more, be more, continue to achieve. And a lot of people are caught in that because there always be the folks who get in and do a good job at their job and they want a simple job and they just want to do it every day. And yes, they can get burned out by doing that every day and the time demands of it and things. But this is different. This is somebody who is doing a job and doing it really well, but it's never good enough. It's never enough. It's, it's never going to be satisfying to them until they do more. But the doing of the more adds more stress. Yeah.
[00:18:05] Speaker B: Do you think that people see this?
We'll get into a little bit deeper here, but do you think that.
So let's say a co worker sits beside another co worker and they see them, the co worker, excelling and performing well, so they feel like they were doing well, but that person next to them is really excelling. So now they want to push themselves to excel as well.
[00:18:33] Speaker A: So that's part of this comparison is the thief of joy. You know, if we're comparing ourselves to the person sitting next to us, that is part of what the unhappiness and the stress and anxiety comes from in the workplace. Because when you compare yourself, we're all different. We all bring different things to the table. But yes, that happens. People sit next to the person who they call him. There's the try hard, the guy who's doing too much, he's always going. They kind of annoys the people who don't want to do all that. They just want to do their job right. But that person who's doing all that, they are wired for that. They're not trying to be rude to the person who's not doing it. They're not trying to be, you know, a pain to everybody who's around them. They are just wired to do more, be more. They are more aggressive. They want to go after it.
They're not okay playing on the high school team. They want to go to college and play on the team. You know, they want to be an elite athlete. They want to, you know, they're not okay. Some people are, are fine with just playing in the game and being in the sport. Other people want to be the best of the best and be way up there. So these are this high achievers mindset. And it does, it can create a problem in a workplace because like you said, somebody sitting next to him going, are you serious? I don't want to work late. I don't want to do that. That's not who I am. That's fine. We are all wired differently. So this excellent exhaustion, this concept of this, I think it speaks to both of those people. Because even if you're not, you know, one of those that keeps raising the bar and wants to be a high achiever, if you want a more simplistic, really comfortable, controlled life, which is perfectly fine and a lot, we need those people too, that want to come in and do their job and just get that job done. We don't need everybody climbing for the top.
But it hits both people because you do have this constant connectivity. And if you're the guy who wants to go home at 5 o'clock and be done with work, and then you have a band, a manager who is this constantly achieving and pinging you after hours, after hours, after hours. There's. You're stuck there somewhere. We've got to find a happy place because now we have access to everybody 24 7. And we have this comparison culture. Like you look at your phone and you go to Facebook or LinkedIn. Then you're like, man, everybody's like doing more. Their kids are doing better. They just went on vacation. I feel like everybody I know goes on nicer vacations than me. I try not to go to Facebook some days because I'm like, really? Everybody's over in Europe this summer doing something and I'm sitting here and like working. So we all have that a little bit of comparison culture, A lot of a comparison culture. But we have that little bit of letting comparison be that Thief of joy and going. I didn't choose to spend my money to go to Europe this summer. I chose to do this. Like, we have to remind ourselves, right? Who knows what they gave up or what they did to go do that vacation. They gave up time and money. I chose to put my time and money elsewhere. Like, it's all a choice, folks, right? But it's hard to remind ourselves sometimes.
[00:21:12] Speaker B: So I think we might have talked about it, but I kind of want to dig into this a little bit deeper. So what are some of the primary causes of excellence? Exhaustion.
[00:21:22] Speaker A: Okay, so it's this. There's several. It's a relentless drive to exceed past your past accomplishments. So that's the first part. So you set your targets or your goals at the beginning of the year. And think about it. You do this. I'd probably do this too, Andrew. You. You set a goal. Like, I'm going to do this this year. This is the year I'm going to like, I'm gonna save this much money. I'm gonna fix this relationship. I'm gonna lose the weight. I'm gonna run the thing. I'm gonna do something or take this vacation. We set that goal and then we do the work to get there. You know, we. I call this my success achievement cycle. So you first, you learn about it, then you do some work, and then you double down and go hard at it. You persist and grit at the end, and then you achieve it because you're you and you want it to happen. And then, yeah, you achieve it and then you set a new goal. So you stay on this constant wheel of, I'm going, I'm setting a goal. I'm working really hard towards it. Then I achieve. And then as soon, as soon as I'm done, I set a new goal. So this. That's that relentless drive to exceed past your current accomplishments. Like, if you do this vacation the next year, you want to do a bigger one, or if you hit this target the next time, you know, if you're in sales, I mean, you hit your number. The next time around, they hand you a bigger number. If you have KPIs, you hit your KPIs, and then the next time you have that meeting, they. They up the ante on those. So that's that drive to exceed your past accomplishments. That's the first cause which we all. If you are not okay with just the status quo and leaving everything in your life just like it is right now, then you're in that world. You have that drive to exceed Your past accomplishments. And then this is exacerbated by we talk about the causes. So that's the first cause is being in that space. The second part piece is modern technology and this perpetual connectivity. And so the second cause is being having people have access to you 24. 7 and having. And just on our phones, even our children can ping us 24. 7. Our friends, our parents. I mean, I have a 90 year old mom, she can call me anytime. And that adds stress and that adds work to my life. My kids can call me from where my daughter's in New York, she can have a tough day at work and call me. That constant connectivity that didn't used to be a thing 20 years ago. You know, you had to wait and if you were away from your home, you didn't get a phone call. Like it was a different world. So we're, we're just in a new space with this constant connectivity and then this perpetual connectivity, this, I mean, it's perpetual motion. So no matter how good you get at what you're doing right now, like even if you want the world to stay the same, technology is constantly changing. It is constantly. Like every time I figure out something online, then they do a new release and then it all changes on me. No matter what app I'm using, whether it's my bank doing an upgrade. You know, we all had to go to online banking, we all had to go to online everything that wasn't a thing 20 years ago. So this modern technology is constantly advancing technology. So it's the drive to exceed past accomplishments. This modern technology constantly changing, changing, changing. And we're always connected. Anybody can get access to us 24. 7. Even when we try to disconnect in the back of our mind. I know I left my phone the other day. I went, I left my phone at home and I had to run over. I was going to my mom, she's about 20 minutes from me. So I'm driving there and I get partway there and then I realize it says nothing. No device connected. Like, oh crap, like. And I live where there's bridges. So I'm like, I gotta get to the other side of this bridge, turn around and go back and get my phone. I can't just keep going forward because I feel like I can't not have my phone with me for a few hours. We have this new. We're like tethered in life and that wasn't a thing 20 years ago. So that adds to this exhaustion. That's why I call it excellence exhaustion. So I'm not burned out because I have to get my phone. I'm just exhausted by it. Does that make sense?
[00:25:03] Speaker B: It totally makes sense to me. And I agree with you 100%. I, I, I left my phone one day and I was like, totally, like, lost because it had all, you know, has my calendar, has everything on there. Someone wants to get in touch with me or needs to get in touch, like, everything is on there. And I was, I felt totally lost that whole day because I was like, oh, my God. And, and then I come home and there's like tons of messages on there. And, and oh, did you forget this? Like, just stuffed. And you're just like, oh, my God. So you have to totally take a few minutes just to go and respond to everything. So I totally understand what you're feeling is on that. And when you talk about relentless drive to exceed current accomplishments, I love that because I think we all have that drive and we all, it's just a continuous cycle and it's never ending. I mean, I, have you mentioned before you have things that you're looking to do. I have things that I'm looking to do as well this year. And I was kind of thinking about that the other day, like, okay, like, you know, what's, like, what's next? Like, is it, is it goals that we're setting? Like, let's say we're starting to think of, which is amazing to me. We're starting to think of 2025 already.
And I am, like, thinking of, you know, what's next? And I'm thinking, is it a goal or is it more tasks that I'm looking to, to do or, or accomplish in 2025? And I'm trying to figure that out myself, Nina. And I'm thinking it's more the tasks rather than the goal in, in my mind.
[00:27:03] Speaker A: Yeah. And it depends on how you do it. I, I, how you, how you want to structure that in your mind. Because different for each of us, for me, I set goals each year. I write them down. These are the goals I have for the year, and I give myself grace. They may not all get there, because life is life and it keeps lifing on us.
Things happen. But I do set goals every year. But part of what I'm hearing you, it sounds like you're saying is, you know, what do I want next year to look like? And that's a lot of what I talk about when I say, like, play it five years out. What does, what does five years from now, Andrew, do? What does your life look like five years from now? What do you want it to look like? Because if you don't know what you're working towards, you're not going to get there. So what do you want life to look like five years from now? Where do you want to be sitting? What do you want to be doing? Who do you want to be around? Not just the job, but you're going to be somebody. You're not just going to be doing a thing. Who do you want to be five years from now? And I talk to folks about, you know, play it, do something now that you five years from now would be proud of. But you got to kind of think about you five years from now before you decide what to do. So that's the tasking. So the goals are out there. You can have one year goals or five year goals and a vision that you have for yourself, a vision that you put out into the universe. Like, this is what I think I want my life to look like five years from now. And then you have the goals for this year that are going to move you towards that. And then it helps me because I'm like, if I'm not sure what to work on or what to do and I've got too much on my plate, I can go, okay, I just need to do something today that me five years from now, like Nina, five years in the future will be proud of. Just do that. Like that's all I need to worry about. Yeah.
[00:28:42] Speaker B: So we know what the definition is of excellence and exhaustion. We know what the causes are.
But what I want to know from you is why is it so important to address excellent exhaustion?
[00:28:55] Speaker A: There's a lot of reasons that it matters. I just think we live in a new fast paced world, you know, and the pressures of this constant innovation and constant connectivity are there. They're not going anywhere. I think it's important to address it because it's not going anywhere. The world's not going to slow down for us. Technology is going to keep changing unless you're perfectly happy with where you are right now. You're in the mix of this and it's hitting you.
And I think that this new paradigm, this new concept of this exhaustion is really pushing people to their limits. This term sort of captures this unique struggle of people who are facing these demands like, and they're their personal demands. You could, I mean, you could decide right now, Andrew, you don't want to do this. Anyone listening to your podcast right now, they're taking the time to better themselves. So they are already Doing this. You are in this game and you host a podcast. You don't have to do this. You're already in this game. You're doing more than you absolutely have to do. You could just sit back and do nothing. I joke sometimes, like, you know, you could just, every once in a while I'll tell someone, just go off the rails. You could get a face tat and dye your hair purple and get a Harley and just make that your life. Just drive across the country and, you know, do odd jobs. That's not who you are. You want to build a life for yourself so you're in it. And so because we face these relentless demands to excel while we're navigating this environment that's never slowing down, we need to address how to do that. It's affecting our mental health. It also affects, affects our overall productivity and our job satisfaction. Like we need to address excellent exhaustion to sustain some long term success and some well being for ourselves and for the people, for whole organizations. I mean, imagine if you had a whole organization and they all were go and the people within that organization felt good about where they fit in, what they were working on and themselves as personally, like, I know I'm constantly going to strive, but this I know I'm right here, there's somebody behind me, there's somebody ahead of me. This is where I fit right now. I know I'm working to this and I'm okay with that. I'm okay with where I am right now and I'm not just okay with it. I'm proud, I'm proud to be in the mix. I'm proud to be working towards it. I'm proud to have done the work to get this job. I'm proud to be in this space and have this knowledge and I want to be the best at this job right now, right now. And not, you know, and so I want to be like the Olympian. We're in the Olympics right now. I want to be the Olympian at this job right now. What if everybody in your business was working towards that, you know, working towards the gold medal in their role?
That is, that's the concept that we need to get people in a different mindset and then we need to give them some specific strategies to deal with it. So it's important that we deal with it because it's crucial for these companies to sustain some long term success and some well being. So their productivity will change, their attrition rates will change. People quit. People quit when they just feel like, I just can't do it anymore. I don't even know why I don't hate my job. I just can't do this anymore. And they just step away and look for something else. When they've worked so hard to get to where they are and they've worked so hard to get this job and they're actually really good at it and they just step away. Like, I'm just exhausted. We need to stop that from happening.
[00:32:06] Speaker B: I smiled to my, I smiled when I. You said sustaining long term success because, and you, you just mentioned the Olympics. So a lot of athletes, they, they compete, they perform to get, you know, they're in competitions for years and years and years until the Olympics comes up. And then the Olympics comes and they have that, know, let's say at 100 meter run, it's like seconds. So you're competing all these year for seconds and then you, you finish in fourth. So you don't meddle. And so, you know, you can kind of look at it this way, like, okay, I didn't meddle. So you know, what's my, you know, I put all that work in and I didn't meddle. What's next? And then there's like that person who's, you know, like a Simone Biles who is always, always been successful.
You know, she could continue to train and, and come back for the next one, but like you said, she could sit back and she could say, hey, I've done everything that I, that I needed to do and now I need to, you know, what's next for me and is it going and traveling and you know, and following my husband while he's, you know, watching all his games and traveling and what, what is it for me? So I'd love that. It's, you'll try to figure out the long term, what's the short term, what's the long term, you know, what is it that you're looking to do and what a success.
I love when you said that success for everybody is different.
[00:33:42] Speaker A: Absolutely. And I will just chime in on this Simone Biles thing. I think she's an amazing athlete and an amazing individual. And I know just from knowing the little bit I know about her, she will not just sit back and be the, the woman who watches her husband and travels. She was going to do great things. I can't wait to see what she does next.
And she will do something exciting next and that'll be, it could be a whole different career. It could be in the mental health space, it could be in athletics. I don't Know, I just think she's an amazing individual and she has so much to offer outside of her gymnastics. And being someone who offered a lot more outside of my gymnastics and using the discipline and structure that I learned through that sport, I've done a lot of great things and had some big success. I think she's going to do great things and have big success outside of that sport. Just my thought on Smoke Biles, but I do watch these Olympics, and you make a great point. And I just wrote a post about this. It's the, you win the Olympics. Now what? Like, now what's next? Whether you win or whether you don't get the Met, whether you don't medal. It's this now what? Moment. And I talk about my now what moments a lot. And sometimes those now what moments are lows. I just went through a divorce. Now what? I just got fired. Now what? And sometimes those are highs. I just made the, you know, got the job. I worked forever for. Now what? You know, I hit that title that I always wanted. Now what? Or I won the Olympics now what? So we have those now what moments. And this is really important that we talk about the word yet, because I wish that they would teach all the Olympians when before they go there and they say, this is the best day of your life. I just want them to go, yep, it is the best day day yet. Like, that word yet. Just put so much excitement and opportunity and hope into your body and being like, who knows what's next? It's the best day yet. I got all kinds of stuff I'm going to do. So there are those moments, you know, that the Olympic Committee, while we're that, the U.S. olympic Committee has huge teams of mental health experts, and there is this post Olympic down that these athletes get. Uh, and so they have a whole host of mental health professionals who help them through this very difficult time they're all going to step into now because there is this downs depression that comes post Olympics that they have found through the years. So they have ways of helping them through that. And they all have so much more to offer. But when you're in the moment, it feels like everything. And I know that from having recreated my life several times. So what's next? What's yet? Best day yet.
[00:36:10] Speaker B: Yes. I love that. I love that.
Nina, how do you think your hometown or city that you grew up in molded you into the individual that you are today?
[00:36:23] Speaker A: Well, I'm a Navy brat, so that's a part of my story. So we went. My dad Was in the Navy. He was career Navy. He went in enlisted and then went to officer candidate School and became an officer. And I'm the youngest of four kids, and so we moved around a lot. I think part of it molded me as a young person is I had to make new friends really quickly, had to figure out how to do that, and I had to adapt very quickly. Adapt in a positive way, which is part of resilience, your ability to, you know, adapt in a positive way to whatever happens in your life. So I think from an early age, I was adapting as I moved from place to place. And also I grew up on. In a military setting, so my friends were military. And so it didn't matter, you know, what your daddy looked like, whether he was handsome or not, or whether he was black or white or the color of his skin. It only mattered how many bars were on his shoulder. It was very leveling living on naval bases. So I think that diversity and inclusion piece was part of me from an early age because I grew up in that space where it really was very different. It was different than the rest of the world, I think, when you grow up in a military space. So I learned to make friends very quickly and really judge people on their character. And that was it. And I don't think I judged either. I've always seen I wasn't judgy as a kid. I'm probably much more judgy now. But as a kid, I do know that I've always found the best in people. And so growing up and looking to make new friends and looking to fit in, I think I was always looking for the best in people, and I wanted to be a part of that. So. And I was always in the US I was on the east coast mostly, so I was born in Key West. True conch. Not many people can say that. Back when there was a military base there in the 60s. So I was born in Key west, and I lived in New Jersey. I lived in Florida. I lived in Georgia. You know, I lived all up and down the East Coast. And so I think my ability. My. My hometown, as you put it, or where I grew up, I didn't have a hometown. I think that's the biggest part of my story of my childhood is I. This is now I've lived in Charleston. This is. I've lived here more longer than I've lived anywhere in my life. I made this my hometown because I didn't have a hometown. And it's interesting. So I came here for news for television, for that reporter job that became an anchor job and I had my children here and I just wanted them to have a hometown. I wanted them to have one place where they went to and remember I had it down, I wrote it in my journal. I just want them to go to elementary school with the same kids they go to high school with. That was my goal. I just wanted them to have long term friendships, which they did. They all three have, were born in this town and they graduate from high school in this town. And then you know what they did? They all went far away because I built them to have wings and go have a life. They all went far away and they barely even talked to these people who were their friends in high school. They have moved on and built their own lives. But I wanted that for them. I wanted them to have a hometown. So I think and now none of them, they're like, I want my kids to live all over the place. I think it's generational. It's what you don't have you think is better for sure.
[00:39:34] Speaker B: I love the diversity, inclusion, space that you, you talked about because I myself, I grew up in a mixed, my parents were of mixed race, so my father was from Barbados and my mother was from Montreal, Quebec. So the just growing up and just seeing the different ways that they, how they were brought up. So they were bringing me up the same, you know how they were and it was different and just the, the different types of food and what their foods were that they grew up and you kind of, you think about it when you're younger, but as I'm getting older it kind of sets in a little bit more and it's in my thoughts a way more now. And I think probably especially because they're, they're both no longer with us. That's probably what makes me think of that's those times even more. But they were, I think they, and as when I think about it, they were, they're really special because they, they made me who I am and they brought in my circle to so much that I would, you know, I'm okay like nothing, anything I see or anything I get through, nothing really phases me because I'm like, well, you know, I see, I seen, I saw quite a bit growing up. So nothing really, nothing really phases me.
[00:41:12] Speaker A: Yeah, well, their customs and their cultures are part of you. Along with the food, there's so much more to it. Their customs, their cultures, the way they deal with, you know, arguing, the way they deal with conflict, the way they deal with people with love, all of that is Part of you now because it came from them. I love that. I love that you feel that way about them.
[00:41:35] Speaker B: Any final thoughts today?
[00:41:38] Speaker A: Yeah, I would like to share, like, if someone's listening and they are in a tough spot, because I didn't really get into my framework or how to get out of a tough spot. And I do talk about that a lot of my books in my speaking. So I hate to not leave folks with this thought. It's okay to not be okay because we all struggle sometimes. It's okay to not be okay. It's just not okay to stay that way. And it's up to each of us individually to get ourselves to a better place. No one's coming to help you get there. So it's okay to not be okay, but it's not okay to stay that way. It's up to you to get yourself unstuck and move forward. And I just want to leave folks with that thought if they're thinking that this is my life. If you don't like your life, it's up to you to change it. There we go.
[00:42:23] Speaker B: I love those words and I totally agree with you.
Like I mentioned earlier, I have been in some spots where I didn't know what was going to, you know, how I was going to dig, get out of this hole, that hole that I was in and I got out of it. And I know there's a lot of listeners who are. Who maybe be in those same situations. And I think the thing that I would say is that I say to people is that, you know, we need to be. We need to be a little bit more vulnerable, I think. And I've, you know, I've always been that person. But I feel again, as I'm getting older, I feel like I'm getting way more vulnerable and I'm okay to say stuff. So. And if I. Something is on my mind or if I want to say something to somebody about what I. What how I feel about them, I'll say it. And there's nothing. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think that you.
It, you know, how the person takes it is totally up to them or how they accept it is totally up to them. But for me, it's. I'd rather do that than hold it back and then say, oh, I wish, you know, six months down the road, oh, I wish that I had said that to that person at the time. And now that chance is.
I don't know if I'm gonna get that chance. So I never want to let even anything the chance. I just.
If I need to say it, I say it.
[00:43:52] Speaker A: I like that thinking, too. Yeah. I. Sometimes I'll say it's okay, like a bad day. Or maybe it's an argument as you were talking about it or something.
A bad day doesn't make a bad week. Bad week doesn't make a bad month. And a bad month doesn't make a bad year. Even a bad few years if you're in some funk right now. Like even a bad few years does not make a bad life. Right. You can have a bad chapter in your life, but it's not your whole story.
[00:44:16] Speaker B: Right?
[00:44:16] Speaker A: It's just a bad chapter. Don't make it. Don't let it be your whole story. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:44:21] Speaker B: Well, listen, I wanted to take the time to thank you for coming on today. I really admire you as an individual. You are just so welcoming and kind and I've just enjoyed all the interactions that I've had with you, including today. They've been all memorable. They've always put a smile on my face and I've just totally. They're. They're so memorable and ingrained in my brain that I can think back and remember many different increments from them. So again, take. Thank you so much for taking the time. You're. I know you're a busy lady and you got lots going on, but it means the world to me that you took the time today to. To. To chat with me and have our guests listen to this as well. So thank you so much, Andrew.
[00:45:18] Speaker A: Such a pleasure to be here. It's been so lovely to get to know you. You're a really good spirit out in the world. So I'm glad that I got to be a part of your world for a minute and I hope we stay connected. Thank you so much for having me on.
[00:45:30] Speaker B: You are very welcome. On behalf of myself and my guest Nina, I'd like to take the time to thank you all for listening. And until next time, be safe. And remember, everybody, that if we all work together, we can accomplish anything.
[00:45:46] Speaker A: You have been listening to. Let's be diverse with Andrew Stout to stay up to date with future content. Hit Subscribe.
