Taming The Tension: Thriving With Challenging People

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Opinions expressed in this episode are personal. They do not necessarily reflect the views of this streaming platform. [00:00:09] Speaker B: Good day, wonderful people, and welcome to another edition of let's Be Diverse. I am your host, Andrew Stout. This episode is dedicated to all my loved ones who supported me through this journey. Those who have left us will always be in our hearts and will never be forgotten. In today's episode, our topic is Taming the tension, Thriving with challenging people. And I'm so excited to have or welcome as my guest, Brittany Phillips. Brittany, welcome to the show. I am so honored that you are joining us today. [00:00:38] Speaker C: Well, thanks so much for having me, Andrew. It's such a pleasure to be here. I'm really excited. [00:00:42] Speaker B: So am I. How are things with you? What's going on? Give us the tea, the deets, give us it all. What's going on? [00:00:50] Speaker C: Yeah, I love that. Well, I can share that. Last night I attended a really cool event in Toronto. It was the Telus Friendly Foundation. So they had a wonderful concert with different groups. The Arkel, Chantel, Kraviatsk, Steven Page, Deborah Cox, and they raised over $2.5 million for the foundation. And this foundation supports youth bursaries across Canada, which is really cool. [00:01:20] Speaker B: Wow. Wow. And is this like a regular, like a yearly thing or they just decided to do it this year? [00:01:25] Speaker C: Um, I believe this is my first year attending and I believe they've hosted it maybe twice before. I could be wrong. The foundation started in 2018, so it is relatively new. But it was a wonderful event, really enjoyable, great intimate concert and just a lovely evening out raising money to support youth in their ventures. So really exciting. [00:01:52] Speaker B: I just love those causes and an opportunity to get out at the same time, have some fun angle, build rapport, have conversations with people. So it's always. It's a good mix of everything. [00:02:02] Speaker C: Absolutely. I love to be able to mix business and pleasure. I love to be able to bring my husband and have a night out and also give back to community. [00:02:11] Speaker B: Absolutely. I'm glad you had a good time. And it sounds like it's a really good foundation and they're doing some great things and I'm glad that you were able to attend it. [00:02:20] Speaker C: Thank you. [00:02:21] Speaker B: You're very welcome. So before we begin, I always have a fun, thought provoking question to ask my guests to get things going. Are you ready for yours today? [00:02:31] Speaker C: I am. Let's go. [00:02:32] Speaker B: So your question is, if you could have a year supply of one snack, which one would it be? [00:02:40] Speaker C: One snack. Oh my gosh. Now can this be a healthy snack or is it just like a snack food that I enjoy or. I mean, am I getting too deep in the weeds here? [00:02:51] Speaker B: You're. Whichever you choose, it could be a healthy snack. So something that you would, like, be like, thrilled about to be like, oh, my God, I have this for a year. Like, I have a year supply of this. [00:03:01] Speaker C: Okay, well, my. I think anyone who knows me very well knows that I am the ketchup queen. That was a name coined to me by my parents growing up. I just love ketchup. So I would say if. And I'm a snacker, I love snacks, particularly like chips. Those would be my fave if I'm gonna have a snack. So I would say ketchup chips. Those would be like. If someone said, you want a lifetime supply of ketchup chips, I'd be like, yep, I've made it. [00:03:28] Speaker B: You know what? I always knew that got along very well. And that just tells me right there, because a lot of people are sweet or salty. As far as snacks, I would, I will have a sweet snack, but I'm more on the salty side. And chips are like my go to if I'm sitting or whatever I'm doing. If I feel like having a snack, if there's a bag of chips around, I will definitely indulge in it for sure. [00:03:54] Speaker C: Me too. [00:03:55] Speaker B: Well, I'm glad that we had some of fun and I'm glad we got that question out and you answered it really, really great. So I really appreciate that. Why don't we start off with you telling us a little bit about yourself and I'd love to hear a little bit about your why. [00:04:07] Speaker C: Okay. That's awesome. So as we know, my name is Brittany Phillips and I am the founder of Vibe Photo Experience. And by day, I'm the lead marketing and strategic advisor at Dion Strategic Consulting Group in Toronto. And I am also the board chair of Dare to Be Youth Charity, which is a not for profit that serves for those in Ontario, Canada. The Halton and Hamilton area offer free youth programming for youth ages 14 to 24. And our mission is really to support youth with building those life skills through community connection and peer to peer mentorship so that they can thrive. And it's a cause that I'm very passionate about. I think youth are the future. And allowing youth to have opportunities and empowering them to be their best selves definitely makes me feel good. And it makes me think, you know, when I was young, if I had those type of programming, how helpful that would be in terms of navigating where I'm Going. So yeah, that's what, that's what Dare to Be Youth does. My background is in marketing, so I've kind of done marketing my entire career. Marketing, communication strategy, all those great things. But working in community has always also been a part of what I do and my passion. And I've served on, you know, different boards or volunteered with other organization like the United Way and other other great organizations that give back to the community. But my, my, I guess what I've coined for myself is a human first mindset. So when I say human first, I mean really being who you are, not just in your business, but, but also in life. Because I sometimes find that people act a certain way when maybe they're at work and then a different way at home. And I just believe like, you know, you have to be, I mean, you don't have to, but it's, it's so powerful when you can be your authentic self everywhere. And I don't think there's any shame of, of being that. And so I try to encourage everyone I, I meet and for myself to, to be human first and to remember that at the end of the day, like, no matter what's happening in the office or at work, people are people. And so therefore you need to treat people as you want to be treated and offer kindness and understanding and compassion. And realize in most businesses it's not open heart surgery, you're not saving lives. So, you know, of course we always have deadlines and targets, but, but if those deadlines and targets are gonna compromise who you are as a human being, that's not worth it, in my opinion. So that's just my belief in philosophy and that's what I try to promote to the world. [00:07:04] Speaker B: So many great things that you'd said there. So first off, I love that you said that you believe in human first mindset and I like that as well. And I do believe as well, like you said, that if we're treated the same way, it's not gonna happen all the time. And I real, but for doing things, because this is the way that we want to be treated, I believe that you're going to, it's going to happen twofold for you at some point or on a regular basis. So I'm a firm believer in that, that if you do good or you put good out in the world, good is going to come back to you. So I do love that. And as far as a board member, I love that you were doing that. I've started to serve as a board member on a nonprofit since last October. And I'm loving every single minute of it. I'm learning every day, learning something new, diving into something new, helping this thing grow. And it's a lot of fun. [00:08:00] Speaker C: It is, it is really fun to be part of an organization that is doing great things in the community and supporting it in that capacity. So, yeah, I love being part of the board. So it's wonderful. [00:08:17] Speaker B: So why don't we get into the meat and bones of this? So what I want to ask you is why do we struggle when dealing with difficult personalities? [00:08:24] Speaker C: Yeah, it's a great topic, Andrew, because if you think about it, right, there's so many different personalities out there. And to think that everyone has the same beliefs or thinks the way you do, I don't think. I know you'll be disappointed. And so one thing that's kind of served me really well is giving grace and understanding that just because maybe you're having a challenging situation with someone, that doesn't mean they're a bad person. Right. And oftentimes what I've seen in my career is people have challenging interactions and then all of a sudden a story comes out. And when I say a story, I more so mean like there now is a narrative that you're saying either in your head or to other people, like, oh, that person's the worst. This, they're that. And then it creates a lot of chaos and a lot of negativity. And I think if we can take a second to Paus and as I always say to, you know, people I work with, give grace and think for a second, hey, you know what, maybe that person's just having a bad day. Maybe there's something going on in their life. It allows us to have compassion and empathy rather than resentment and resistance. [00:09:38] Speaker B: You know, you are bang on on this because I, I, I think communication is key there because it's probably the way that sometimes things come out. And maybe if you have that conversation with that person and tell them, hey, when we're discussing something today, you made me feel this certain way. And in some cases they may not realize that they did it. They may not have meant to be malicious or come out that way or respond to you in that way, like you said, it might be just situation something that they're dealing with, or like I said, they just didn't realize that that was what they were doing. So I'm not saying in all cases, but in some cases that's what it is. So if we have a conversation, say what we're feeling, the disappointment is not going to be there anymore. Because I think you're going to build that rapport again if you just chat, you know? [00:10:31] Speaker C: Absolutely. Communication, I mean, that's my job, right. Communication is so important. But what I've realized in my lifespan of how old am I? 36 years, is a lot of people actually don't know how to communicate. And so you might think you're communicating really well, and the other person might be thinking they're communicating really well, but it's like almost speaking two different languages. So to your point, like, if you can. If you can, I'll say be brave and have those uncomfortable conversations where you're like, I really. I don't want to talk about this because it makes me feel uncomfortable, but if I don't talk about it, maybe it's going to feel worse. You, as you said, you might find a level playing field. But to your point, it starts with communication. Absolutely. [00:11:20] Speaker B: It certainly does. It's almost like that game that we played when we were a kid, telephone, where I would tell you something, Brittany, and then you would say to the next person, what I said was, but it's not going to be exactly the same. It's going to be. Parts of it are going to be the same, but it's going to be broken. So by the time it gets like the 10th person, it's going to be like, broken. So it's exactly like that. [00:11:44] Speaker C: 100% bang on. Bang on, Right. You know, some. And it. And it's like, okay, you're playing telephone. How many times it has to go around like the circle before you actually get the message? Sometimes it's like 10 times. Right. But you get there. But it takes patience and persistence. [00:12:01] Speaker B: Exactly. What are some of the effective responses for handling challenging interactions? [00:12:06] Speaker C: That's a great question. In my opinion, I feel that openness, right. Being open as opposed to being closed, where you're on defense. Right. Will make the interaction at least flow better. Because people don't realize when you're like, that person's the worst, or I don't even want to talk to them. Like, they don't get me. All these things. You're closing off, Right. And so if you're closed off, then what's that other person going to do? Well, they're going to close off. So you're both coming at something closed as opposed to being open to receiving what they might be saying. And open to receiving, hey, they might just be thinking different than. Than I am. And that's okay. Right. Like, we are all different. Like, I love Your podcast. Right. Because it's all about being diverse and recognizing like not everyone can learn the same way or think the same way or execute things the same way. But at the end of the day, if you're still getting to the same location, then that works like there's no right or wrong in life to an extent. Right. Like how we execute things can be different, but we can all still get to the same location. So I guess for me it's, it's really being open as opposed and being conscious of your openness as opposed to being closed off and coming to the table. When you're having those conversations with, I'm going to tell them this. Listen. If you can listen and hear what they're saying as opposed to just thinking about your response, usually the conversations go on a much better direction. [00:13:46] Speaker B: And I love when you said close where you are on defense. As I've gotten older, I've learned to never tell anybody how they should feel because everybody's going to feel differently about something or about the same thing. So you, just because you're, it's your opinion doesn't mean that you're going to force your opinion on somebody else's. If that's what they feel, then that's what they feel. So as long as you're doing that and as long as they can respect your thoughts and they're not telling you how you should feel, I think the conversation should go a lot smoother in my mind. [00:14:21] Speaker C: Absolutely. No, I completely agree with you, Andrew. Everyone has one is entitled to their own perspective. And if we can appreciate rather than reject, we will be a much more collaborative society. Right. [00:14:37] Speaker B: So do you think leaders take difficult team dynamics seriously enough? [00:14:41] Speaker C: I think, I think good leaders do. I think. And maybe, maybe good isn't the right word. Maybe experienced leaders maybe value driven leaders. Right. Because I, I do believe if you are, and I suppose it's. How do you define a leader? Right. But I believe like if you are a leader, you will understand that emotional IQ is just as important as intellectual iq. Therefore, you know, you have to also appreciate like the interpersonalities of, of your workplace and understand how that could impact the culture. Because if you have negative employees over team members on your, on your, on your team, they can really create a lot of toxicity if that's not dealt with. Right. If it's not, if you haven't had as you mentioned, like those conversations. So do, do all leaders take it as seriously? No. But then again, you have to think about it from the perspective of not all leaders have that awareness to know when to intervene or to have conversations or even be competent to do so. So if you have a leader that understands, hey, I need to make sure my team is, well, diverse so that I do have someone on my team who can pick up on those things and come to me and be able to help me understand how to make this better, then that's great. But sadly, you know, not, not every organization is built that way and, and, and that is the reality of it. But I, I would like to hope that leaders and organizations do take that seriously. [00:16:20] Speaker B: I don't know if you've seen this. A lot of leaders or people that are coming up and becoming leaders have never been a leader before. So they've been put in that situation because they were an excellent individual contributor, they were good at their job, they were put into that situation to become a leader, but they've never been a leader. So a lot of them go back to what they know. In some cases, I've seen that they've acted the way they were brought up by their parents. So when you're talking to a child and when you're talking to an adult, it's totally different. So if you're telling somebody, don't do that, don't do that, you better listen to me, that's like, you want to talk to your children like that, that's up to you. But you can't talk to an adult like that because they're going to be very. You talked about being defensive, they're going to be close minded, they're going to be defensive as well. So I think we have to remember that it's important to get the proper training in order to deal with these situations, because if you don't have it, then it's going to be very difficult for everybody. [00:17:22] Speaker C: Absolutely. No, I agree with you. Oftentimes in organizations, promotions happen based on output. So you could be a great producer, but just because someone's a great producer, that doesn't necessarily mean they're a great leader. Right? We need, you need all kinds. This goes back to, you know, the whole theme of your podcast to be diverse. So you need to have leaders, you need to have producers, you need to have all sorts of different types of people. But not everyone maybe is a best fit for that leadership role. And that's okay, right? Like, not everyone maybe wants to be a leader too. And I think sometimes, like, to your point, like, if you get promoted based on productivity, if no one ever has the conversation with you to say, hey, do you actually want to lead People or be a people manager. If no one says that and you're just promoted and you don't understand like the, the not consequences, but you know, the expectations of being a people manager, then yeah, absolutely. You're probably going to fail because you didn't know what you were getting into from to begin with and maybe you didn't even want to do that. So if you don't want to do that, then there's going to be resistance anyway. Right. But as you mentioned, training is super helpful. Right. Like creating a culture of learning in organizations is really helpful. So if you set up your people for success, you give them access to education and coaching and all those great things, then you can help people become better leaders. But it goes back to your. What you initially said about communication. Did you communicate at the start to say, do you want to be a leader of people? Because there's difference between being a leader of people and being a leader of a competency. Right. Like, it's different. [00:19:13] Speaker B: It certainly is. And I mean, there's different types of people that leaders have to deal with. Right. So you could have someone who is a passive follower. You could be someone who is resistant. So anytime there's a change, they're resistant to it. There's people who are very silent. So you just never know what's going on with them or what they're thinking, which can be difficult because if they're not, we've used this word a lot and we're going to probably use it again through this conversation. Communicating. If they don't communicate what's going on or what they're thinking or what's bothering them, then how do we know how to fix it? Right. It's like when you go to a restaurant and you order something and it doesn't come out the way you want it, and then you just pay the bill and you leave without telling management what happened or what have you. How can they fix it without, you know, without them knowing? [00:20:01] Speaker C: Right, exactly. However, I also think it comes with awareness. Sometimes people don't even know what they want. So if you don't even know what you want, how can you expect someone else to know what you want? [00:20:11] Speaker B: Absolutely. I agree. We're not psychics. Right. So we can't figure it out. Exactly. Do you think there's a link between managing difficult personalities and leading inclusively? [00:20:23] Speaker C: Yes, I think so. Because to lead inclusively would, in my, I guess, perspective and definition, would be to be able to understand and be able to work with difficult people. Right. Because when I think about Diversity. Diversity to me means all facets and different differences. I don't know if differences is a word, but I think you understand what I'm saying. So that like that's a group, right? Like so. And they, they despite. And this goes back to, I guess my human first mindset is at the end of the day those people are still humans. So they, there's still a place for them, right? And, and if you're a leader, you have to be able to find where they, like how do you help integrate them into your community? Like, what are you doing to make it so that they feel belonging? Because maybe they're being difficult because they don't feel like they belong. So then it from my perspective, like if I'm a leader, then I'm reflecting on, okay, hey, how, what can I do better to make sure that these people who are maybe being challenging right now aren't so difficult? Because maybe it's something that unconsciously I'm doing to create attention. I think everything starts with self reflection. And if, if we can all take a second. This is, I think the challenge in the world we operate in is no one has time to take a second to one, breathe and then two to say, hey, what can I, what could I have done better here? Because we can always do better no matter what. Even if you think you've done something perfect, there's always room for improvement, right? It's having a growth mindset as opposed to being complacent is not necessarily the right word, but being stuck in, in one way of thinking. And if you can have that growth mindset, then you can realize difficult people still deserve respect. Difficult people still deserve to be treated like humans. And why are they being difficult? Right? Like you asked me, like, what's your why? That's where I usually go to. It's like, well, why, why are they being like this? So then let's think about all the possible ways, right? Maybe something's going on at home. Maybe they're going through a divorce, maybe someone passed away in their family, maybe they're navigating a difficult relationship or a friendship. Like there are so many reasons why someone could be difficult. And so if you could maybe put yourself in their shoes, you could realize, hey, like, you know, they are always irritated when I call them. Maybe I should send them an email first to say, hey, do you have a five minute to have a call? Right? So. And again, I'm, I'm not. There always are situations where people, people are people, right? And they, and they're just doing what they want to do. But typically speaking, I usually find there's always a solution. [00:23:22] Speaker B: Oh, there definitely is. And you mentioned before, in a situation where we don't feel like we belong, we don't want people to be looking at a table and saying, I don't feel like I have a seat at this table, so I'm going to find another table to sit at. Because we spent so much time working with them and developing them and making them part of our team, we don't want to have to do that again. So we got to make sure that we are doing everything on our parts so that they are happy and engaged in everything that we're doing. [00:23:55] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. Like it. I mean, I know your background is hr, so you probably would know the stats around this, but, like, I think to, like, onboard and transition people, like, it's quite costly. So if you're constantly having turnover, like, that's actually costing you. That's. That's on. That's affecting your bottom line. So if that's the case, I would be looking inside instead of outside of. What's the problem? [00:24:19] Speaker B: Absolutely. So before we wrap up, what is the one message you hope sticks with our listeners? [00:24:25] Speaker C: Such a great question. I think the one message that I hope your listeners take away from this is give people grace, take a moment to pause, and remember we're all human. And so, yeah, you know, some of us are in a rat race and we're just trying to survive at times, but we are so much stronger when we work together than when we work apart. So if we really want to do well in life, it means working with people. And the better you can work with people, I find the better you will do in life and the more success you will find. So I guess my message is, you know, be human first. [00:25:10] Speaker B: I love that. I love that human. Being human first is super important. My call to action today would be to follow let's Be Diverse podcast for many other episodes like this one today. I wanted to take the time to thank you for coming on today, Brittany. I just admire your positive mindset, your devotion to everyone you meet, and your ability to bring sunshine to every situation. You're. I just think you're just such a joy to know and a joy to work with. So I wanted to take the time to thank you for. For coming on. [00:25:39] Speaker C: Oh, my goodness, Andrew, that's such. Those are very lovely words. And it's an honor to know you. It's an honor to be on this podcast and be. Be part of the. Be Diverse family. I love what you stand for. And I can't recall, I guess it's been a few years now that we've been connected. And I just, you know, immediately resonated with your message. Like, I think it's so important. And I, I really applaud you for what you're trying to do and create awareness about diversity and how to think differently and bring that into the workplace. So thank you so much. And thank you for just being the positive person that you are. [00:26:18] Speaker B: No, I appreciate your kind words. I accept them and appreciate them. On behalf of myself and my guest, Brittany, I'd like to thank you all for listening today. And until next time, be safe. And remember, everybody, that if we all work together, we can accomplish anything. [00:26:33] Speaker A: You have been listening to let's Be Diverse with Andrew Stout. To stay up to date with future content, hit Subscribe.