Goal Setting

[00:00:04] Speaker A: Opinions expressed in this episode are personal. They do not necessarily reflect the views of this streaming platform. [00:00:14] Speaker B: Good day, everyone, and welcome to another edition of let's be diverse. I am your host, Andrew Stout. This episode is dedicated to all my loved ones who have supported me through this journey. Today's topic is going to be something that I'm very interested in, and we talk a lot about it. Whether you're in, it's in the workplace or whether you have stuff to do around the house, it's goal setting today. I am so happy returning as a guest today. Doctor Andrea Mada, the daughter of a mexican immigrant, grew up in a gang infested neighborhood in the south side of Chicago. At eleven years old, her life dramatically changed and it fueled a desire to become a clinical child psychologist and specialize in treating antisocial and aggressive behaviors in children and teens in hopes that other families would never have to experience what she went through. In 2021, she left a tenured position at University of Findlay to live out her life's mission of fortifying families by starting bright spot families where she teaches coping relationships and parenting skills. I'm so happy to have Andrea is just, I can't even say enough good things about Andrea. She was on my show a while back, and as we taped this, her first episode that she did is in the top ten of downloaded episodes of a year's worth of this podcast being existence. So I just had to have her back, and I'm super happy to have her back here today. Welcome to the show, Andrea. I am so happy and so lucky to have you back on today. [00:01:52] Speaker A: Hello. Hello. Thanks for having me back, Andrea. I'm excited. [00:01:56] Speaker B: You are always welcome, you know that. So, so happy to have you back here. It's been great. The first, like I said, the first episode was fantastic, so everybody seemed to like the first episode. So I thought, well, why not give them two Andrea episodes to listen to? Why not? [00:02:12] Speaker A: Exactly? [00:02:13] Speaker B: How are things with you? What's new? What's going on in your world? I know you always got so many different things going on. What's happening in your world these days? [00:02:24] Speaker A: I think the biggest thing is that I am now an author of a parenting book. So that's pretty exciting. And all that comes along with being a self publisher. [00:02:36] Speaker B: Wow. [00:02:37] Speaker A: I guess. A self published author. [00:02:39] Speaker B: Wow. And how long have this been in the works for? Like, I guess it was been a while. [00:02:45] Speaker A: Yeah, probably a few years. Probably like two and a half years from the time that I was like, all right, I'm gonna write this parenting book to getting it out and into the world, which it released on December 29. So I'm pretty excited about that. [00:02:59] Speaker B: Wow. Absolutely. And we all seem to have this goal of writing a book, so it must have been super. Like, I'm sure it was kind of, like, exciting for you to do it, but it's probably was like, eating you up inside to not like, talk about like that. It was in the works and stuff. So that was probably the pain. I would say pain, but the part that was kind of keeping you like, oh, my God, I gotta tell somebody. I wish I could tell somebody, but I can't. [00:03:28] Speaker A: Yeah, I think back in, like, it started back in like 220 19 when I was still a professor and a textbook company reached out to me and they're like, hey, we want you to publish a book. And I was like, oh, okay, perfect. Let's have a conversation. Sure. Tell me more. And I was like, okay, so I have this idea for this book I want to write. It's called return to play, where, like everyone, kids, adults, parents, community members, employees, we need to, like, go back to, like, enjoying life and, like, playing and not being so damn busy all the time. And I remember the publisher, like, the person I was talking to from the company. They're like, yeah, we don't want that book. I'm like, what? Like, everyone wants that book. And they're like, yeah, we don't want that book. I'm like, well, what book do you guys want? And they're like, well, we want you to write a sport, like a sports, like textbook for youth. And I'm like, college students don't read textbooks. And they're like, but that's what we want. And I'm like, okay. So then I started thinking. I was like, do I want to write this book and all this stuff? And I talked to my mentor from grad school, and he was hilarious. And his, all of his, he's originally from the Netherlands. And so all of his gutched glory, he goes, if you wrote a book, how do you know people actually read it? I was like, ouch, man, Fred, like, that hurts. I'm like, but touche. So I started the bright spot podcast instead and gave up the dream of writing a book for probably like a year and a half or so. And then I was like, you know what? I'm going to write it and see what happens. And people are reading it, and I haven't. I mean, I don't know if anyone would actually tell me, but I've heard nothing but glowing reviews about it. So that's super exciting. [00:05:15] Speaker B: So I'm glad that you decided to write it, even though people, you know, people might have said to you, like, hey, you know, I don't know who's going to read it, glad that you did it, because I think in the back of your head, you probably would have been thinking, like, well, like, if you didn't do it, maybe like, three years down the road, you would have been like, hmm, I wonder if I wrote that book. Well, I wonder what have happened. I wonder how it would have went. So you would have been though. You would have been playing the what if game, and it's not a fun game to be playing. We're talking about playing and having fun. That's not a fun game to play because when you're playing the what if game, it is, like, scenarios, all kinds of crazy scenarios. My wife, when I play that what if game, sometimes just for fun, and, you know, just like, okay, well, what if this would happen? And then we come up with, like, the craziest, like, scenarios. Whatever the chances of those happening are probably never gonna happen, but we just kind of do it for fun. Just that. And we feel better sometimes after by doing it, like, okay, well, none of that's gonna happen, so I think we're okay. [00:06:20] Speaker A: Did you ever watch the show, this is us? [00:06:22] Speaker B: Yes. [00:06:23] Speaker A: Where they played that game they would. [00:06:25] Speaker B: Play, and I believe that's probably where we started to do it. And it was so fun to do it. I don't think we went to the scale that they did it, but it was kind of. It was still kind of fun to. To play it out and, you know, like, okay, did you hear about so and so what's happening? So I wonder, what if. And then we just kind of have a little bit of fun. I don't. We wouldn't do it long, but just, you know, maybe two, three times back and forth. Okay. And then we're like, okay, we're good. [00:06:51] Speaker A: That's awesome. [00:06:54] Speaker B: Well, I'm glad to hear the congratulations on the book. That is awesome. That just adds to all the many great things that you have done in your career. That's a huge accomplishment. So kudos to you on that. Thanks for sharing that with us. I appreciate you, and I'm sure the listeners will appreciate that as well. Before we begin, get into the nuts and bolts of our conversation today, I always have a fun question to get things going. Are you ready for yours today? [00:07:26] Speaker A: No, no. [00:07:31] Speaker B: I'm actually looking forward to your answer on this one. I wrote it today as I was preparing, and I was like, oh, I can't wait to hear Andrea's answer to this. So I'm super, super pumped. I'm super excited. I'm probably more excited than you are to hear your answer. So my question to you is, why is it that a wise man and a wise guy are totally different? [00:07:57] Speaker A: Why is it that a wise man and a wise guy are totally different? [00:08:03] Speaker B: Right. [00:08:04] Speaker A: Well, a wise guy usually has lots of years of experience. Experience and has knowledge, whereas a wise guy is trying to pretend that he has that, or maybe he knows that he doesn't have it, and so he's just trying to crack jokes to try to make people laugh and distract them from the idea that he doesn't actually know what he's talking about. It's kind of like squirrel. Yeah, look at the squirrel over here. Don't look at the man behind the curtains. It's like wizard of Oz kind of stuff. Don't pay attention to this guy over here. [00:08:52] Speaker B: Oh, my God, Audrey. I love that answer. I was like, oh, my God. When I wrote it down, I'm like, I can't wait to hear her answer, because she's gonna come up with something so good without even knowing. And the thing is, you don't even know what it is. So that's so fun to come up. [00:09:08] Speaker A: With stuff off the cuff all day. [00:09:11] Speaker B: You came up with something on the jump all the time, so I love it. Thanks so much for having fun with me. Why don't we start off with you telling us a little bit about you and your story? So for those who didn't listen to your first episode, tell us a little bit about you and your story. [00:09:30] Speaker A: Yeah. So as you mentioned, Andrew, when I was born and raised on the south side of Chicago to an immigrant, my father's originally from Mexico, met my mom when they. They actually met a block from where I grew up, and they fell in love and had four kids and raised us. And so I have three older brothers, and they're significantly older than I am. The youngest boy was seven years older than me. So there's about a seven. I mean, there is a seven year gap between us. But the big thing was, like, we were close knit family, very mexican. Cause I have lots of cousins that lived in Chicago area, all immigrated to Chicago after my dad immigrated there, because he's the patriarch in the family. Well, especially after my abuelo, my grandfather, had passed away. And so I remember. So when I was eleven, my brother Cisco, the youngest of the three boys in my family, he was murdered by someone who he had considered his friend. And fast forward two years. I remember seeing sitting in a courtroom, and I was sitting in between my parents. My older two brothers, Jose and Fidel, were not allowed to be there because we're pretty big for Mexicans. Like, my brother's six four, my other one's six foot. And the guy who murdered my brother was like five six. And so, like. And the thing is, like, you don't want to mess with Amada because then you have to mess with all of us. And so my two older brothers weren't allowed to be in the courtroom because they didn't know whether or not they could contain themselves. And so during that time, we were asked to write and read impact statements. So how did the murderer's choices impact our lives? So my mom read hers. The district attorney read Jose. Infidels. My dad didn't write one simply because of his thicker accent and because he only has like a second or a third grade education. Actually, that's a whole nother story. Super interesting, but whole nother story. And then I got up at the age of 13 and stepped into the witness stand and read my impact statement. And I remember after we adjourned, we recessed for a little while. And then the judge came back and he paused and he looked at my parents and me, and then he took a deep breath, and then he was like, you know what? I'm not sentencing this man to death, not because of moral or professional objections against the death penalty, but because this man had a rough life, because this guy had come from an abusive home full of, you know, people that engage in criminal behavior and psychological abuse and use drugs, and mom with a mental illness and all sorts of things. And so from there on out, I kind of decided that I wanted to become a clinical child psychologist who specializes in the treatment of antisocial and aggressive behavior in hopes that, like, all of the clients that I work with are essentially the murderer as a child. And if I can help them have a better life by teaching them individual coping skills or teaching their parents to have a better relationship, or teach their parents how to actually parent in an appropriate way that leads to positive developmental outcomes, maybe there's an eleven year old girl that doesn't lose her best friend. So that's ultimately why I became a clinical child psychologist. And so, yeah, I took some turns along the way, and now I think I am truly living out my life's mission. [00:13:06] Speaker B: Yeah, that story is just amazing to me how, you know, where you were and where you came to where you are now, it's amazing to me. And you talk about parents and stuff like that, as far as how they, you know, some kids are in trouble a lot because of their parents. And it's amazing. I was telling somebody the other day, they made a comment on LinkedIn and they said that my daughter was, wanted to do a post. My eleven year old daughter wanted to do a post today, so I let her write the post. And it was something along the lines of like, don't compete, let's collaborate type thing. And she's like, I'm so proud of her because I wasn't, didn't know what she was going to expect. I commented as well. I said, your daughter was brought up by a good leader. That's why she is the way that she is. And I truly believe that, that the type of person you are, you know, how you grow up and how you turn out to be, it depends on your upbringing. And, you know, I thank my parents who are no longer with us, you know, for the person that I am because they had their own way of bringing me up. But I took a lot from each one of them, and I'm proud to say the things that I've learned from them. And I'd rather be in that situation than being situations where I have friends where they don't get along with their parents at all. Never did, never have, never will. They passed away and they still never got along with them. So I rather would have been in my situation than others. Than their situation. [00:14:48] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, with the clientele that I've worked with, like, I could tell you horror stories. Like, I remember we, my husband and I, when we moved back to Ohio, we went to a friend's Halloween party. And it was funny because we were in the kitchen just hanging out. And it was one of those, like, when I travel, you're gonna laugh at this, Andrew. When I travel, I actually don't tell people I'm a clinical child psychologist. I tell them I'm a molecular biologist. [00:15:21] Speaker B: So you're, see, you're playing. You're like a secret identity, like a secret agent. [00:15:25] Speaker A: Because I don't want to be stuck on an airplane with someone for multiple hours where they know that I'm a clinical child psychologist. It gets really awkward. So I'm either a molecular biologist or I'm a statistician. And then, like, molecular biologist, no one knows what the hell you do. I mean, I don't even know what molecular biologists do. And so, like, they don't want to talk to me. And then as soon as they hear stats, they're like, oh, I hate math. And then they stop talking to me. [00:15:51] Speaker B: Right, right. No, you're, you're totally, you're totally, right? [00:15:56] Speaker A: Yeah. Because then it's non stop talking. So we're at a party, right? And this guy that I don't know, who's, like, a friend of our friends, and he looks at me and he's like, oh, what do you do? And I'm like, oh. And at this point, like, I can't lie because I'm at my friend's party's house, and I'm like, oh, I'm a clinical child psychologist. He's like, oh. He's like, we need to get you drunk so you can tell us, like, all the stories. And my husband looks at him and goes, you don't want to hear her stories. Her stories are awful. Like, they're about, like, terrible, like, childhoods. Like, no one wants to hear those stories. [00:16:32] Speaker B: No, no, no. And the other thing, too, is that why would you want to put, why would anybody wanna, they're not fun stories. And why would anybody want to put you into a situation where you're gonna tell those stories? Because, I mean, I know you have to kind of separate yourself, but, you know, they're still very difficult. I mean, we all have emotions. We're all vulnerable. And some of those stories are probably very difficult to hear. And they're probably still very difficult to hear. So why would anybody, like, I would never, ever, ever ask you, you know, if I was in a room with you, I would never ask you to tell me any of those stories because that just kind of makes you kind of go back into the memory of hearing those stories. And why would you? You know, I'd rather hear a funny Andrea story rather than that. [00:17:21] Speaker A: Well, because I think most people, when they hear, like, mental illness, they think, like, kind of, like, the more humorous side of things where, like, you know, you see, like, the tv depiction where someone has schizophrenia and they're wearing, like, aluminum foil over their head because they're trying to prevent, you know, people from implanting thoughts into their, their brains and their minds. And so people think like, that's what I hear every day. And I'm like, no, you don't want to, you don't want to know my stories. [00:17:50] Speaker B: No, no, no. So this conversation is actually a good segue into our conversation today. So we are getting into, our topic today is goal setting. And I'm sure you do a lot of it in your conversations with parents. I know you do a lot of leadership talking, so this is the perfect segue for it. Why don't we start off with you telling us the importance of goal setting? [00:18:16] Speaker A: Yeah. So I think the big thing is when you don't have a goal, you're kind of just, like, flapping in the wind and the breeze in the air, whatever phrase you want to use. And you're purposeless, and, like, purposeless doesn't lead to anything good. And then, like, time goes on and you're just like, oh, I set a New Year's resolution, and then it's now December 13, and you're like, oh, yeah, I didn't hit any of my goals, and so it's. Or any of my New Year's resolutions. And so I think people need to be setting goals for the biggest thing is urgency. And the one of the biggest issues that I think is facing our youth right now. I've been talking, like, with a lot of, like, principals and presidents of schools and that kind of thing. And the biggest thing is, like, the apathy, at least in the United States. I don't know if you guys are seeing it in Canada, but, like, we are seeing so many of our american youth just being completely apathetic and not having a purpose or not having goals or not, like, wanting to, like, work towards anything. Or, like, the thing that kills me is, like, they have no sense of urgency. Like, they just walk very slowly and do everything so slowly. And I'm like, can you just move a little bit faster? Like, people have things to do, but, yeah, like, they've gone, like, from, like, their type B personalities. Like, oh, we're just gonna, like, do what makes us feel good. And I'm like, ah, have some kind of purpose in your life. Have a goal that you are trying to work towards. [00:20:06] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think it's. You're right. If you don't have a goal, you're. You are purposeless. And. And I think, you know, that's what happens when you are. You talk about apathy. I think, you know, being authentic and empowering, I think, you know, that's kind of a goal. I think a lot of people, you know, I read a lot of people's posting, and that's what they want to do. They want to be empathetic. They want to be an empathetic leader. They want to be a thought provoking leader. These are goals that they're setting for themselves rather. Rather than, you know, I'm going to just go in and I'm going to wing it, you know, I'm the new leader of a team, and I'm just gonna wing it. Well, wingin it is not gonna do it. You know, you need to have a plan, and you need to have structure that, you know, so that when you are. Because you're dealing with a bunch of people. Right. I mean, I don't. I don't know if you watched a Netflix series on me now. I'm gonna age myself here. But on the we are the world and how it came about. But it's on Netflix. If you do have Netflix, you should definitely check it out. So it is basically how it came about, how they got all the singers together to do it. And I didn't realize that they did it after the Grammy Awards, because everybody was there for the Grammy Awards, so they rented a studio that nobody else knew about, and they just told these singers to go, to go to this studio. They're gonna do it. And so in that episode, Lionel Richie talks about the fact that, you know, there's, like, 50 singers in a room, and he said the one thing that you don't want to say to everybody is, hey, we're thinking of doing it this way. What do you all think? He's like, then you're just in trouble, because then you got, like, there's no structure there. And now you got, like, 50 some odd people giving their idea of what they think or how they think it should go, and you're not going to get anywhere. So he's like, you have to tell them, this is how it's going to go. We've already timed it out. We've already prepared the song. This is how it's going to go. This is who's going to sing what part. Let's start practicing. Which is the way that they did it. [00:22:26] Speaker A: Yeah. And that reminds me when I think it was my first year in, as a professor and one of the student organizations, psyche, and anyone who wanted to be a psychology major could be in it, and any other person could be in it. But I remember, they're like, hey, can you take over psyche? And I was like, sure. So I took over psyche, and I remember walking in, and there's, like, 20 students in the room, and I'm like, okay. Like, what are the bylaws? And they're like, huh? I'm like, well, who's the president? And they're like, huh? I'm like, how do you all make decisions? And they're like, oh, we make decisions together. I'm like, all 20 of you guys, like, make decisions together. And they're like, yeah. I'm like, is that why we have no meetings planned and no events and nothing? And they're like, yeah. I'm like, oh, my God. I'm like, first things first. We are creating what's called an executive board, like, every other student organization on campus. We're gonna have a president, we're gonna have a vice president, we have a secretary, we're gonna have a treasurer, and then we're probably gonna have some kind of, like, other person. And so, like, some of them were really, really mad that I was coming in, and I was like, no, like, there's too many cooks in the kitchen here. Like, we need to have some kind of, like, plan and focus. Yeah, but, yeah, it was. And so what we did was then we would have, like, summer retreats, and so I'd have the students, like, the executive board come over to my house, and we would essentially plan out, set goals for the whole school year so that, like, it wasn't just a hot mess. [00:24:04] Speaker B: No. And that's the way to do it, for sure. It's a little bit more structured. So what are some of the challenges when it comes to goal setting? [00:24:12] Speaker A: I think the biggest challenge is that people actually do goal setting wrong. So, like, yes, it's good to do, like, goal setting, but, like, it's better to do what I call goal mapping. And so, like, if you've ever heard the quote, a goal without a plan is just a wish, right? So, like, lots of people, they're like, oh, I want to lose ten pounds. But then it's like, okay, well, what are you gonna do to lose ten pounds? They're like, I don't know. I'm just gonna lose ten pounds. And I'm like, good luck with that. Or, like, you know, hey, I want to. For businesses, like, I want to, you know, increase my revenue by x number of dollars. Okay, great. How are you going to do that? And they're like, I don't know. I'm like, okay, good luck with that. And so I do this a lot with my high school football players, like american football, not, you know, what the world considers football, american football players. But, like, ever, essentially, every, the first time, every time we meet, we do. We're doing goal mapping, and so we're listing out, okay, like, what is your in the. And here's another big thing that most people do wrong when it comes to goal setting is they set, like, yearly goals. I think, like, businesses are notorious for doing this, like, the yearly evaluation, that's actually not great practice. And the reason for that is because there's no sense of urgency. Like people need some form of urgency. Like I worked with college students for nine years. If you told them they had a paper due at the end of the semester and you didn't give them any kind of touch points, guess when they're writing that paper two days before the night before. Two days? What am I talking about? The date before it's due, they're writing it and then it's a piece of crap because they haven't edited it and they haven't revised it or done any kind of research on it. And so then they're just citing Wikipedia stuff. And so the better way for companies and businesses to set goals is to actually set twelve week goals. So like three months? Yeah, three month goals. So what are you going to achieve in the next twelve weeks? And so like how you do goal mapping is like if you're looking at a sheet of paper and I have some on my website, but it's like you create your outcome goal is the first thing. So that's kind of like your big hairy goal. Like what do, what is it that you want to achieve but the thing that you have absolutely no control over. So the best example I did of this when I was still a professor was like I wanted to get tenure. So, meaning like I could, you know, never be fired from my job. And then I gave it up after I got it, which, I mean, that's working for me. So like the outcome goal is on the right hand side. So like what's kind of the big hairy goal that you want to achieve in twelve weeks that you have absolutely no control over whether or not you're going to achieve it. Then from there you're going to create multiple smarter goals. So smarter stands for specific, specific, measurable, attainable, relevant, time bound, which we've already worked in. And then you want to evaluate what you're going to do at the end of the twelve weeks. And then you're going to revise, obviously, at the end of the twelve weeks. So you want to set those smarter goals that are going to lead into those outcome goals. So something that like, is more like performance based that you have some control over but not complete control over. And then I think the biggest key, so those are called performance goals or smarter goals. And then what you're going to do is you're going to create what's called process goals that feed into your smarter goals. So process goals are small daily or weekly actionable items that you can do that you have complete control over that is going to lead you into or lead into your performance goals. So if you are doing these things on a daily basis, then that should easily lead into your performance goal. And then if you're meeting your performance goals or your smarter goals, well, then you're going to increase your likelihood of obtaining your outcome goal, which you have absolutely no control over whether or not you do that. And you want to do this within twelve weeks and you want to, you know, for that sense of urgency. So that's, that's how I kind of do goal mapping with, with anyone that I work with. [00:28:55] Speaker B: So I agree with you. I think some of the challenges. You're absolutely right. I think when people are, our companies are setting goals for their teams or organizations, you're absolutely right. They do like, and it's usually like after inventory, they do the inventory and then they say, okay, our year end is x day, and then they're having all kinds of meetings to say, here's what we did this year. And, you know, this is what we want to do next year. [00:29:26] Speaker A: Mm hmm. [00:29:26] Speaker B: And so that's usually what they do. But you're absolutely right. I agree with you 100% that, you know, chances are those goals are going to change throughout the year. [00:29:36] Speaker A: Right? [00:29:36] Speaker B: Right. [00:29:37] Speaker A: So, yeah, because depending on, like, if, how quarter one goes, like, you made this goal to, like, I was talking to someone recently and they were like, oh, my goal for my revenue in 2024 for my business is $375,000. And I was like, okay. And they're like, yeah, I don't care about it, like, anymore. I'm like, it's March 12. And they're like, yeah, I don't care about that goal anymore. And I'm like, well, then it's probably time to reevaluate whether or not that should be your revenue goal. Or I've heard other people, like, they've already hit, like, their goal for quarter three, for revenue in quarter one. And I was like, well, it didn't sound like you, like, put yourself too high of a stretch bar. So guess what? You need to now increase, like, your revenue for quarter two to be a little bit higher. So it's, yeah, it's being strategic, it's being smart, it's being mindful and really kind of tapping in because the person who was telling me that they had the goal for 375,000 for the revenue in the year, I was like, well, why? Why that amount? And they're like, oh, just because it was more than last year. And I was like, but that's considerably more than last year. Like, why? Like, what does that give you? So, like, I know, like, I. You know, I have a goal of probably hitting, like, more like one. Like, in my business, like, hitting like, 100 5175 for 2024. But that's because, like, I want to be able to move towards the ultimate goal, not within twelve weeks, but, like, within the next two years, is to have a, what I consider my ideal schedule. So, like, having revenue in certain increments is going to then allow me to have a more ideal schedule. [00:31:30] Speaker B: Right. So what you just. Wait. Talked about with that guy kind of goes a segue in the next question here. And the question is, when people don't reach their goal, like, that gentleman you talked about, why did he feel like they failed? [00:31:45] Speaker A: Um, because I think lots of people put invest a lot into goals. And it, you know, means instead of being like, oh, what didn't I do? Right? And what can I learn from this? Like, oh, did I not hit my process goals? It's like, oh, I didn't hit that, and now I'm a failure. So I think a lot of the time, because of how a lot of us, like, in our generation, are probably much more lower, but their performance is actually too closely tied or intertwined with their self worth. And so they think if they don't perform well, then it's because they suck. And so if we don't hit our goals, it's not because, like, we didn't write realistic goals to begin with or we didn't plan. It's something internally about us that's not good enough. [00:32:40] Speaker B: Right. I was just going to say that, like, when they make the goal and they don't reach it and they feel like they failed, like, do they look back and say, oh, well, why did I not reach that goal? And is it the first thought that, like, well, maybe I didn't make a realistic goal? [00:32:54] Speaker A: No, I don't think most people are saying that. They're like, oh, I didn't hit that. Like, I suck. And I'm like, no, actually, you don't need suck. You probably suck at, like, goal setting, but you don't suck as a person. [00:33:05] Speaker B: Right, right. Because. Yeah, like, I mean, you said it. You think that you're gonna reach some pinnacle, or you have this something in your mind, okay, this is what I think I'm gonna do. Like, for example, myself this year, I have a goal that by the end of 2024, I want the podcast to be at 10,000 downloads. That's my goal. So, to some people, it might be like, oh, it's, you know, it might not be realistic, but I kind of go by. [00:33:35] Speaker A: I. [00:33:35] Speaker B: The only reason why I went by that is kind of seeing the numbers and how they've gone from when I started, and I, you know, figure, okay, well, if they, you know, they can only continue to go that way, maybe grow even more. So, yeah, by the end of the year, I should hit it, or very darn close to it, so. [00:33:55] Speaker A: Right. [00:33:55] Speaker B: You know, and if I don't hit it, I'm not gonna be like, oh, my God, like, why did I not hit it? You know, I'll look and see. Well, why did I not hit it? But I'm not gonna bang my head on a table because I didn't hit it. Right. Because, yeah, it's just some, you know, it's something that I'm gonna go. It's like a. It would be. It's a goal. It would be nice to hit that, but I'm not gonna drive myself crazy for a month after if I didn't hit it. Right. [00:34:22] Speaker A: Yeah. And with some of my, with some of my people I've been with, especially, like, my sports performance clients, I've been creating what's called olympic level goals, right? So there's actually three levels of goals. So I'll say, okay, here's the bronze goal, here's the silver goal, and here's the gold goal. And so, like, there's three different tiers. And so you make the bronze kind of like, where you're already at, and then the silver is, you know, pushing yourself a little bit up outside of that comfort zone. And then gold would be like, oh, my goodness. Like, this would be awesome if I hit this. [00:35:04] Speaker B: I like that, Andrea, because something that I started to do as far as a goal. So everybody, when they start the day, they go, okay, they make a list. Maybe the night before, okay, these are things I want to accomplish tomorrow. So I make a list or stuff. And what I was finding is that I, you know, maybe not was completing everything on the list, so I was getting discouraged. So what I started to do as a goal was, if I've done something that was not on the list, added it to the list, right? And then I crossed it off. So it's something like, you know, in my head, I'm not thinking, what wasn't on there was on before. I just put it on there. And for me, it's on the list now. I can cross it off, and then I feel like I accomplished something. [00:35:56] Speaker A: Right. I think one thing that I've started to kind of joke with people, and I joke about it in my book about to do lists. I usually say, like, write out your to do list for the day and then tear off 30% of it, because then that's realistically what you could probably achieve in a day, right? [00:36:19] Speaker B: Absolutely. Absolutely. No, it's. You make total sense there because. Yeah, chances of you hitting everything on that list is not gonna happen, so. [00:36:27] Speaker A: No, not. Not right now. Exactly. So, like, write it all out and then tear off 30%. [00:36:35] Speaker B: Yeah. And give yourself a little bit of grace. For sure. So do you think that goal setting will become easier for most people in the future, or do you think that it's something other people are gonna continue to struggle with? [00:36:47] Speaker A: Um, actually think it's probably something people or more people are gonna start struggling with, even though I think more and more people are talking about it. I think the way that parents are currently parenting and are being encouraged to parent with this movement towards, like, gentle parenting and focusing in on feelings and not having expectations of your children, which just translates into, like, not having goals for them, is going to lead more kids to feel uncomfortable with, like, the idea that there's some kind of expectation of them or there's some kind of bar that they're supposed to hit. And I think more and more, we're going to see, like, the kind of the apathy that we're already seeing. We're going to see more kids struggling, and therefore, later down the road, come 1020 years in the workforce, we're going to see more people struggling with goal setting. So the thought that just popped into my head is, I deliver a workshop on cultivating a gritty culture, and in it, I give people. I have people take the grit scale, and grit is the. Your perseverance and passion for long term goals. And I remember I was doing a workshop with a, like, a youth travel premier volleyball club, and they. I had them fill out the grit scale, and I looked at my intern, and I was like, oh, my goodness. And I looked at their coach, and I was like, these are some of the lowest grit scores I have ever seen, because I just don't think we're raising kids to be gritty and to have that passion and perseverance for long term goals. And I think more and more companies are going to start seeing employees coming in with, like, lower levels of grit. And I think, where was I told? I gave a workshop last year, and someone actually said that they had recently seen, after they took the grit scale at the workshop, they'd actually seen the grit scale on an application for a job, and she didn't know what it was. But then after she took the grit scale, she's like, oh, my goodness, this is what they're doing. They're looking at people's grit scores. And I was like, it's not a bad practice. I mean, you're an HR. You could tell me whether or not that's ethical, but to figure out whether or not someone is likely to stick around and is able to, you know, have passion and perseverance for long term goals. [00:39:31] Speaker B: Well, I mean, if we're going to talk about, I think, goals, where, I mean, for me, I'm a firm believer that goal setting is, you know, it comes right from day one when the person goes in for the interview. It's changed. It used to be that you were interviewing for the job, but actually now more people are interviewing for their. Interviewing for the job and interviewing the candidate. Right. So they're. They're interviewing each other, and they're trying to convince each other why each other would be a good fit. Right. So. So I think it's starting from day one. So when you talk about goals, I feel once the person gets started, there's a lot of companies that make a mistake, and they do this in order. Orientation day. First of all, a lot of companies don't plan a proper orientation. So a lot of companies, they just go in and that person says, oh, welcome, welcome, andrew. It's nice to have you here. On your first day. You're gonna go sit with Andrea, and you're gonna follow Andrea around today. That's a training where a proper training would be like, you go sit with manager or your leader, and they're gonna, you know, thanks for coming in and also happy to have you. And, you know, they give you a schedule. Here's what you're gonna be learning this week. Here's what we're gonna get you do today. We'll fill up some paperwork, and I want to talk a little bit about, you know, what we talked about the job in the interview, but I want to talk about your, I call it clear expectations. So what is your clear expectations of me? That what I expect of you, part of this team? And so what I think that does is it gives the candidate, they know right away, like, okay, well, you know, this is what I got to do in order to be successful at this job and in order to be good with, you know, my team and with my boss. This is what I need to do. There's no way that they can come back after three months later, and you say, well, you didn't tell me. That's just part of the communication structure. They're giving that rate from day one. So I think that is something that is missing. And so, like I said, when we talk about goal setting, I think that's something that has to be more on the forefront and more organizations, for sure. And I think that will help people a little bit more. [00:41:51] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think it'll help businesses, too, because then, like, you don't have to do the whole, like, I'm keeping this person around for months because we haven't done any documentation that they're not doing their job, and we can't fire them. [00:42:05] Speaker B: Right, exactly. Exactly. How do you think your hometown, where you grew up, or your city, molded you into the individual that you are today? [00:42:19] Speaker A: Well, I grew up with a gang infested territory, so I think that I saw lots of people doing stupid things that were. They did not have goals. I mean, maybe they did have goals. Their goals was to climb up people because they had such a terrible family life. Their goal was to, you know, kind of climb up within the gang, which was not all that great of a goal, because, like, I don't know if I've mentioned this before, but when I was a senior in high school, someone that I had done taekwondo with shot and killed someone a block from my house, all because he was wearing a baby blue shirt. And so, like, he ended up in prison. And then this guy, Francisco, who lived down the street from me when I was growing up, like, he was the one that gave the other guy the gun, and so that the guy used to kill the other person. And so then he ended up in jail for a while, and I was like, well, great. So you guys are latin kings, but y'all are in jail. Like, then that's not a good luck. And so I think it showed me, like, what goals I didn't want to achieve. And so it made it even stronger to want to achieve the goals that I wanted to achieve. And I remember I was 21. Or was I 22? I was 22, and it was my senior year of college, and I had already been admitted to a grad program, a clinical psych PhD program. And I remember sometimes I would go back home, and I would go out to bars, like, during the summer, and hang out with friends and, like, co workers. I would say, like, friends and co workers because I used to be a lifeguard. And I remember one time I went out to our favorite bar, McDuffie's, and I'm standing there and I'm drinking, and all of a sudden I hear Andrea, and I'm like, hi. And it was like, my best friend from 8th grade who lived in the neighborhood where I grew up, and she was like, oh, my God, how are things going? And I'm like, oh, they're going good. How about you? She's like, oh, well, I just had my second kid. And I'm like, second kid? Like, you're 22. And I didn't say that to her, but in my head, I'm like, oh, yeah. Like, I'm gonna go get a PhD in clinical child psychology. And, like, we didn't have anything to talk about, and so we just had completely different, different goals. But she also came from a very, very different life than I came from, or a different family, I would should say. [00:44:58] Speaker B: So. I would think that it made you what you saw. I think it made you a little bit stronger of a person that you, you know, because you've seen so much that your personality was just so much stronger, and you were able to, because, you know, there's a lot of people who probably wouldn't be able to be as strong, really be able to fight through it and say, well, this is where I'm gonna go, and this is what I'm gonna do. No matter what. Nothing's gonna stop me. I gave you the will to keep going. [00:45:31] Speaker A: Mm hmm. Yeah. I think it gave me a, like, an idea of what I didn't want in my life. [00:45:39] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. For sure. It's funny that you talk about friends, because you always. I know. When I always used to go back home to Montreal, I would, there was this bar, it's no longer open, but I remember going back and to this bar, and every time I'd go back, I'd be like, a year, and I'd go back the following year, and I'd go back, and I'd still see the same people that were in the bar when I used to go. And I just kept thinking to myself, you know, all my friends had goals, and they had, you know, their girlfriends, and they had moving in together, getting a house, they had kids. And I was like, the single guy, and I was always, you know, still going out to the same bar. [00:46:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:46:26] Speaker B: Then I met my wife, and I moved away from that city, and then we'd go back during the holidays, and we'd see the same people, and I would tell her, like, oh, my God. Like, this person is, like, still, like, coming to this bar. And I just said to her, I'm like, my God. I'm like, this could have been, like, still, like, going to the same bar. Like, if I didn't meet you, this is probably what. Where I would be. [00:46:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:46:53] Speaker B: So it's. It's funny how it was different for me because I'd go there, but I'd be like, oh, hey, how's it going to be? Yeah, I'm just in town for holidays, you know, whatever. Thought I'd come, whatever. But, you know, like, I wanted to kind of not be, like, big shot, but I kind of, like, you know, this is not where I regularly go anymore because I don't live here anymore. Right. My goals and my priorities have changed. You know, I'm with somebody. I'm married now. We have a house, you know, in a different city, you know, have a good job, and, you know, so I. It was different for me. Right. So, you know, I kind of, like. But I just kind of made me think, like, oh, my God. Like, I could be. This could be me. I could still be going in this bar. So it's crazy. It's crazy. So, any final thoughts today? This has been such a great conversation. I just loved it. Like, I mean, I could probably talk to you for hours, Andrea. Like, this is the God's honors truth here, but any final thoughts for the listeners today? [00:47:55] Speaker A: Yeah, I think the biggest thing is, like, start small. Start with one area of your life that you want to achieve, and then, you know, start goal mapping. So starting with that outcome goal, like, what is that big goal that you would love to achieve within that one area of your life, whether it's parenting or romantic relationships or health or mental health or career, personal growth, whatever it may be, and then work backwards. So come up with those smarter goals, and then come up with those process goals. And I think those. Those process goals are really the big things, because those are the things that we have absolutely complete control over. I remember when I was working with my american football team last year, and I, like, usually we come up with, like, specific goals for every game, and it was interesting because I had ten guys on my leadership group, and we realized after the first or second game that it actually didn't work to create, like, outcome goals for, like, the game. Like, I'm gonna get ten tackles. It, like, it literally, like, broke them, and so all except for one. So, like, one guy would. Would create outcome goals for him. Like, hey, you're gonna get ten tackles. You're gonna get a force two tough turnovers, whereas, like, all the other guys, they were all process goals. Like, I'm gonna stay composed. I'm going to get off the, you know, I'll get off the block or something very, very specific that they were working on for that one game. [00:49:26] Speaker B: And it totally makes sense. It's realistic stuff and it's not, you know, in a sport, you're probably not wanting to have, like, so many goals in a game. Like, exactly. When the players start doing that again, when I get off the block, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna take a pose. I'm not gonna let the other team get under my skin. Yeah, these are, you know, it's easier to have one thing to focus on then ten different things. Right. So. [00:49:52] Speaker A: Right. Because, like, the other thing with the outcome goals, like, we didn't know whether or not, like, depending on what the other team was bringing or what the rest were doing or what the conditions were, like, it was too much. But, like, you can always do a goal around effort. [00:50:06] Speaker B: Yep, you certainly can. For sure. Well, Andrea, once again, a fabulous conversation with you. You are an outstanding individual. You inspire me all the time. Every time I talk to you, every time I read you something that you wrote. It's super inspiring. Inspiring to me. And I'm sure that there's a lot of listeners out there who feel the same way. And there's certainly a lot of people, I'm sure, that read your posts or read anything that you write, feel the same way, that you are super inspiring to everyone. And we're so happy to be connected with you and, and to have a conversation with you. And I myself am so lucky to be able to send you a message, to have a chat with you. It's super awesome for me, and it's super awesome to have your support throughout anything. So thank you again for coming on today and thank you for being part of all of our lives here. [00:51:03] Speaker A: Thank you for having me anytime, Andrew. [00:51:05] Speaker B: You're very welcome. On behalf of myself and my guests, Andrea, again, I'd like to thank you all for listening. And until next time, be safe and remember, everyone, that if we all work together, we can accomplish anything. [00:51:24] Speaker A: You have been listening to. 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