Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Opinions expressed in this episode are personal. They do not necessarily reflect the views of this streaming platform.
Good day, everyone, and welcome to another edition of let's Be Diverse. I am your host, Andrew Stout. This episode is dedicated to all my loved ones who have supported me through this journey. Those who have left us will always be in our hearts and will never be forgotten.
Today we're going to dive into a topic called mindset over muscle. What great leaders shift first.
Our guest today is someone that I recently met and someone that I think very highly of in a very short time.
Her name is Jen Arnold. Jen, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for joining us today.
[00:00:43] Speaker B: So glad to be here, Andrew. Thanks for having me.
[00:00:46] Speaker A: You're very welcome. How were things with you, Jen?
What's going on in your world? Give me the tea, give me the deets, give me it all. What's going on?
[00:00:55] Speaker B: Well, I have to say that as an entrepreneur, as someone owning her own business, for nine years I've said that I really suck at taking vacation and you know, in the corporate world, pto. And so next week I am, it's Thanksgiving week here in the US And I am taking the week off and I, you know, I'm quite thrilled about it. Haven't done it in a long time and that's it. Otherwise, my dad just got out of hip surgery, had a hip replacement. He fell playing golf.
He was like trying to hit the ball and fell into the sand trap. And it was unexpected, but he just got out of surgery fine. So that is a huge relief. He's doing well. I got vacation on the horizon and yeah, everything is good here.
[00:01:36] Speaker A: Are you going anywhere fun or be like something to stay at home and, and relax?
[00:01:41] Speaker B: Well, we're going, we're going to travel for Thanksgiving, but just to relax. Like, I just don't want any meetings on my calendar. I want the day to think and just be thoughtful about what I'm trying to do at the end of year end in 2026.
It's just a space. Space to think.
[00:02:00] Speaker A: Absolutely. I totally agree with you. Something that I've tried to do and try to stick with is that even though you're working during the day, I've tried to make it a point to cut the day at a certain time and just go and just relax and put my feet up. But I find when I do that as I'm relaxing, all kinds of stuff goes through my brain. So sometimes I'm okay, but sometimes I have to find. I have to kind of take like a little notepad just to write down what my thoughts are. Because if I don't do that, then it's gonna stick with me for the whole evening and then I won't rest very well or sleep very well because it's gonna be on my mind. So once I put it pen to paper, then I'm able to relax because then I know, okay, I can kind of look at it the next day. So that's, that's kind of how my mind works anyways.
[00:02:49] Speaker B: Yeah, no, that's a good move because I've had it to where as soon as I fall asleep, all the thoughts come popping in and kind of wake me up. So I think that's a really good strategy for sure.
[00:02:57] Speaker A: For sure. So thanks so much for sharing what's going on with you. I'm glad to hear that you're going to get some time to yourself and relax and put your feet up and enjoy some time with family or friends and hopefully your dad gets better.
And that's. I'm glad to hear that things are on the mend, which is really, really good.
[00:03:16] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:03:17] Speaker A: Before we begin, always have a fun, thought provoking question to ask my guests to get things going. Are you ready for yours today, Jen?
[00:03:25] Speaker B: As ready as I'll ever be. Let's go.
[00:03:27] Speaker A: Your question is, would you rather have the ability to see the future or change the past?
[00:03:33] Speaker B: That's a tough one. And it brings me into like, since I'm a little bit older, back to the future is definitely where my mind goes there, you know, I think it would be future. I don't really want to see the future. That's not something that I hope to see. But I don't think you can change the past. I don't think, you know, everything that happened in the past, good, bad, and in the middle kind of got us to where we are. I'm pretty happy with where I am. Made me the person I am now. I'm kind of second guessing that I'm like, oh, there is actually something, maybe I would do that. But I'll stick with my first answer. My first answer is let's just go see the future.
Let's. It's like the Ghost of Christmas future. See if there's anything I need to course correct now before the future turns out the way it turns out.
[00:04:14] Speaker A: Yeah. We always would like to know what is ahead of us so that we can prepare. But yes, we can never fully prepare for anything. So I love your answer. It is great. I would never go back to the past at all myself because Again, I'm like you. There's things that happen there for a reason that those things happen. So I can't go back and change those, nor would I want to. So just kind of concentrate on the here and now and if I could see what's going on. I mentioned before that I have trouble with patience, so maybe to see what's going on so I know what's coming. But other than that, I think I'm, I'm good as well.
[00:04:50] Speaker B: Yes. Sometimes, Andrew, I have to remind myself like I'm the one creating the panic, right? Like I'm the one in the hurry so I can also slow myself down. It's, it's not that serious. So I too have similar problems with patients and I have to remind myself that I can control a lot more than I think I can.
[00:05:06] Speaker A: Why don't we start with you telling us a little about yourself and I'd love to hear about your why as well, Jen.
[00:05:13] Speaker B: Okay, so I own a company called Growth Signals and we are leadership training, development coaching and consulting. And let's see, been in business for nine years and it has evolved over the years. My, my why really started out with well being, helping the well being of employees in the workplace. Like I worked in corporate, you know, up until nine years ago. And I left because I didn't feel like I could grow where I wanted to grow. And so I left and kind of started my journey. When I started going out and training mainly in the topic of resilience. Right. So trying to help people with the individual skills of getting through the hard stuff, a lot would kind of come up. Right. Once you lift the hood of the topic of resilience, you find out a lot of it is interpersonal dynamics, it's people not communicating well. And a large part of it is leadership in leadership. Really just not having the skills, the time, the energy and the support to really lead their teams in the way that they want to be led. And so I would say that I go about, well, being a different way now than I did nine years ago is really like, how do I help leaders truly identify how they want to lead, make sure that they are not burnt out so they can really guide their team to success. And I love personal growth, personal development, and I say I'm lovingly challenging, so how can I help push people in a loving way to really do the things they know they need to do and support them in being the best leader that they can be.
[00:06:52] Speaker A: I love everything that you just said there. That is amazing. And I just love when you said a lot comes up when you lift the hood and you see what's underneath the hood. That is so telling.
Because everybody has a different way of looking at their successes or what success means to them. And I think the old school mentality is that success means this and everybody needs to do it this way. Whereas I think it's more of an individual thing and I think it's separate for everybody.
[00:07:24] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I think one of the things that leaders don't have the time to do, don't take the time to do, is say, what kind of leader do I want to be? Right. How do I want to show up what's important to me? Where are my natural strengths? And then also where are my gaps? Where do I need to close in those gaps? And we just don't.
We don't do that. Well, I don't think we organizations help their leaders find that. They're just saying, here's the organization, mission, vision, values, which are very important, don't get me wrong. But how, as a leader do you, Are you able to lead to those mission, vision, values if you don't know who you are as a leader?
[00:07:58] Speaker A: Interesting stuff you just said there. And I'm sure we're going to delve into a lot more of what you just said there, but we're. What I want to know from you is when you think about mindset over muscle, what does that phrase mean to you personally?
[00:08:11] Speaker B: I think it all starts with mindset, right? So regardless of where you are, what you're trying to achieve, it is a big mindset piece of it. If you don't have the mindset to first shift into leaderships, to say, hey, I am a leader to have that mindset, anything else will kind of feel like you're trying to really muscle through it, right? That it's going to feel much harder if you're not having that mindset shift first. Although I will say that every habit, it is like, you know, a muscle, like growing a muscle, right? You have to repeat the action. Mindset will only get you so far is the first step. But it's not the only step, you know, Then it is actually, I always say taking imperfect action because you can think about it again, first step.
But unless you do something about it, that's the muscle piece. So I'd say the mindset step one, the muscle step two.
[00:09:05] Speaker A: And it's interesting you talk about the mindset and the habit as a muscle, because when you do step into a leadership role, it is different from being an individual Contributor. So how I mentioned before how everyone's mindset is different. How are you jumping into this role and what is your mindset as far as how am I going to do this role and, you know, how am I going to be as a leader? Are you thinking like that or are you just thinking like, okay, I'm becoming a leader and it's all going to come to me type thing, Right? So you're right. It's very interesting as far as what everybody thinks when they get into that role.
[00:09:43] Speaker B: And I don't remember thinking about it that much. Like, I was just all of a sudden it's like, oh, cool, I'm a leader, right? I'm promoted and I get to manage people and this is going to be amazing. And I didn't really think about, like, okay, now I'm a role model, right? I'm trying to get the best out of of people. It's not about me anymore. It's about them. It's about team success especially. I find this with new leaders, when they have to now manage their peers, they're still kind of one foot back, an individual contributor, being friends with their peers. And they haven't fully said, okay, I'm a leader, the relationship may have to look different. Right?
So there are definitely some mindset shifts you have to make when you first get into leadership and then with every step up after that.
[00:10:25] Speaker A: So it's a great segue to my next question. When we're talking about mindset shifts, what mind shift shift do you believe great leaders have to make first before any strategy, skill or title matters?
[00:10:36] Speaker B: I think the main one is be the guide, not the hero. Now, Andrew, did you ever read Harry Potter?
[00:10:44] Speaker A: I did.
[00:10:45] Speaker B: Okay, so you think about, like, Dumbledore, he's the guide. I mean, you know, he's a powerful wizard, right? So I'm sorry, Harry Potter, if you nerds out there like me, if you haven't read it, just give me a minute. You know, Dumbledore is the most powerful wizard, the only one who can fight Voldemort, but he kind of guides Harry along the way, helps him find his confidence, has that, hey, I know you can do this, right? And props him up. So here Dumbledore is the guide. He's not the hero of the story here. He is, right? So I think the biggest one is to say for new leaders is, all right, how can I. It's not about me in the spotlight. It's about how do I be, get the best out of my people, get see their potential and lead them to their potential. And I think that if you don't make that, if you still make it about yourself, you're still in the individual contributor world. You're not going to be successful.
[00:11:34] Speaker A: I remember way back in my career before being a leader and just being like an individual contributor.
I remember somebody that we worked with in our group that we hung out with, had lunch with, sometimes went to movies after, went for supper on Friday nights and type thing and all of a sudd that person. They came out with us just as they became a leader and people were asking them questions about stuff and obviously there are some things that they just couldn't answer. And then the next time when we went out and then every time after that they stopped coming out with us. So a lot of people were like, well what happened? How come they stopped coming out with us? They used to come out with us every week and now they don't come out with us anymore. What happened? Type thing. And we talk about the mindset shift. I guess they felt that they had to not ignore us, but they just felt like, okay, well now I'm in a different role. I can't put myself in certain situations or scenarios anymore. And I didn't look at it back then. But you know, becoming a leader and you think about all those things throughout your career and those stories and it makes total sense why they did that.
[00:12:46] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean you become a role model and that's the hardest thing for people to say. Now everyone I'm in this new role and they're interpreting my facial expressions. You know how I'm acting completely differently. And one of the new leaders who went through my training, she said it's like, okay, I'm like wearing two hats. You know, here's my friend hat and here's my manager hat. And I just switch em on and off. And I was like, ye, no, no, no, we need to get one hat. There is one hat.
[00:13:15] Speaker A: You, you do.
[00:13:15] Speaker B: It's just a different relationship. And it, it, it, there's things that you can do if you start leading your peers that can soften that blow. But you have to just wear one hat. You can be friendly but not friends. Right? You can still have a but you do. It's just different. And that was part of taking the role. Like you can't stay in your like one foot into individual contributor land. Although I know a lot of new leaders still have their old work hanging on. They're still kind of doing the work. Right. But you have to just say, hey, the role's different. They're looking at me differently. And you, you're the boss, right?
[00:13:50] Speaker A: So, Jen, a lot of new leaders have this mindset or think that being strong means having all the answers.
What's the mindset? Reframe you wish they'd make instead that.
[00:14:03] Speaker B: You'Re not supposed to have all the answers. That's why you have a team. And when you do have that mindset of I've got to have all the answers, then you become the bottleneck, right? That puts all the work on you. It puts all the answers on you. You can't grow that way because, you know, you may be a new leader and never want to get any higher than you are, but most people are like, all right, I'm ready for the next step, right? You'll never be ready for that next step if you always see yourself as having to have all the answers. And if you do have that facade, because it's not true. No one has all the answers. I don't care who you are. No one has all the answers. The smartest person, right, does not have all the answers. And if you come in with that facade, that is already like a barrier you're putting up to building trust, right? And. And if you don't make that mindset shift, I find that new leaders then micromanage everything, right? I've got to have everything. And it's. It's exhaust. Exhausting. It's mentally and emotionally exhausting to have that mindset of. I've gotta know it all. I mean, we have organizations for a reason, right? All these different people have different ideas and different ways of doing things, which can be annoying, but it's also really good for diverse thinking.
[00:15:15] Speaker A: So I love what you said there, talking about knowing the answers. So I had two different leaders, one that would answer pretty much anything, even though they didn't know. And then you would just here around the area that people would just be talking like, oh, my God, they're just such a. Know it all. They talk about that they know it all, but they don't. And then I had another leader who would. You'd ask them a question, and they'd say, I don't know that answer, but let me check that out, and I will get back to you with the proper answer, because I don't want to give you something or an answer that I don't know. So there was two different ways of looking at that. And I'm like, people just love that because they're like. And they made sure that they got back to them, which is Key. So I think everybody respected that because they're like, okay, well he doesn't know everything. And they're like us. They're vulnerable. They're like us, so. Or they're human.
They can make mistakes and type things. So it makes it. Made it more real. And I think they had the respect of their peers because of that.
[00:16:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, Andrew, when you think about that first leader who said they always knew the answers, even when they were wrong.
Well, it's okay to be wrong. Right. But if you're wrong on a regular basis, people aren't going to start coming to you with any questions anymore. They're going to be like, that person doesn't know and go around you. But when, when I was back in corporate, there was this wonderful facilitator and she had a great trick that when she didn't know the answer, when someone would ask her something in class, when she was facilitating a session, she thought that was a great question. What do you think? And we just put it back in their court. Doesn't work for every question that your team's coming to you with. But it's, it could be a powerful coaching question. Right? Because sometimes new.
Just jump in and answer the question when it's really a potential coaching opportunity for their team.
[00:17:05] Speaker A: Yeah, it was a, it was a learning opportunity for them. Maybe they were going to because they, that facilitator put it on them. They might have given the answer, but then they might have gone back to their desk and they might have researched that answer a little bit more. And then I could see them going to the facilitator after saying, hey, I know I gave this answer, but it, I researched it and this is what I came up with. It actually shows a little bit of initiative as well, because you're like, hey, I wanna, I wanna find this answer out. Not to be a know it all, but I, you know, you asked me this, so I want almost like a name, I guess you could say, almost like an impression thing that they wanna impress the facilitator. And if it's their leader, well, then they're impressing them as well at the same time.
[00:17:48] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, it just, it's more of an empowering phrase than, you know, there are times when a leader is gonna be like, yeah, that's something I really need to go figure out. Make it, research it. But there are things, especially when it comes to work. Right? Like, what do you think? Like, what do you think's the answer? Right. Which direction do you think we need to Go on that project, pitching it back to them is a great thing. Right. So that's, that's huge. Like just overall not having to know it all and feeling okay like feeling like when you, if there are any, anyone listening who wants to go into leadership, who's not now, I hope it's a relief, right? Like you, you don't need to know everything if that's your path, is a leadership as a path for you, it's okay not to know.
[00:18:28] Speaker A: Well, you mentioned team and I think you know, as a leader we have specific people on our team or any organizations that have or that know certain things. So you can be that person, say, hey, I don't know that answer, but I could put you in touch with Jen Arnold and Jen Arnold takes care of such and such in the company. She would have the answer. And if she doesn't, well, she's gonna know who, right?
Maybe not even knowing the answer, but maybe even knowing who might have the answer. That even comes out even more because you're like, okay, well they're not just passing the buck, they're just, they might, they're passing me on to somebody who might know the answer better than they would.
[00:19:12] Speaker B: Right.
[00:19:13] Speaker A: So it's respected for sure.
[00:19:15] Speaker B: Yeah, that's, that's brilliant. I mean that's goes back to your rapport building, right Andrew? I mean, yeah, it is connecting across the organization. That's super helpful for, as a leadership skill.
[00:19:24] Speaker A: Yeah, it certainly does. So Jen, when you think about diversity, equity and belonging, what mindset shift? What shift helps leaders move from good intentions to truly inclusive actions?
[00:19:38] Speaker B: I think one of the things to consider, especially if you are, you know, there's different styles out there. But you talk about the hard charging high achiever who's like goals over people, right? So you're just thinking so hardcore about how can we get this all accomplished. I think it is really a mindset shift to say like how do you care for the people that you are leading?
Right? So everyone, even your hardest employee. Because believe, I mean I managed a team of 15. There are people that weren't my favorite people. Like I probably, I'm sure I wasn't their favorite boss, that's for sure. But that can show if you don't shift your mindset to say I am a big influence on these people's well being. Right. And I need to think about that to say I care about the well being of my people regardless of how you get along with them. And everyone needs to feel that sense of belonging as a leader. If people don't feel like they belong. That's a huge threat in our brains. Right. They don't feel safe. They have to feel like they belong before they can feel safe. Right. I think it is really the shift of again, the leader is a huge, the research show a huge impact on employee well being. Right. And so if you can shift your mindset to say I make an impact whether I, you know, kind of feel it or not care about these people as human beings regardless of work. Right. I want their success, I want them to go home feeling challenged, but feeling kind of filled up instead of burnt out.
Everyone belongs, right? How do you think about that? Regardless of who you are leading, it's the first another shift that's helpful. When you think about belonging, some of.
[00:21:16] Speaker A: The listeners will probably say, well, who's excited to go to work? Right? But when you have that sex sense of belonging or when you're feeling like you're wanted or cared for, well then when you wake up in the morning, you're like, okay, I gotta get ready for work and I got this to do and I got that to do. So there's almost like an excitement to, to go into the building and go into work and do that project or meet with your boss on a certain thing or work with some teammates on, you know, a new skill or, or a training that you guys want to do, like there's so many things that you can be excited about and if you do have that sense of belonging, well then, yeah, you're gonna.
The sky's the limit.
[00:21:56] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think there's always times you have jobs and it's a means to an end. You got to pay your bills. There's nothing wrong with that. Right. But in my career, you know, and what I don't have now being a business owner is the p. Are the people around me. Right. So everyone's in my world remote. But when I, I made some of my best friends when I worked for eight years at this one company, I still talk to them to this day. So you can find belonging in different places and you can find enjoyment in different places, right? So maybe you don't love the work. Maybe you can find it in the people. Maybe you have a good boss. But I have to say that if you don't enjoy the work, your boss isn't good and the people aren't good around you that you can't feel like you belong, you don't feel like you fit in.
[00:22:40] Speaker A: That's.
[00:22:41] Speaker B: That's a hard place to be in. And that is a Time where you think that, all right, maybe I need to suck it up for a little while, but how can I get myself out of the situation? And it may take time.
But this. This question, Andrew, made me think of something, is that when I worked at the last company I worked at, I worked at for about eight years. Eight or eight to nine, Whatever. Um, and within that time, I worked in three different departments. That's what I loved about it. I could keep moving around doing different things. I remember there was one point I was in a department where I did not feel like I belonged. It was passive aggressive. It was like everyone was clamoring for promotions and I found my people, but, like, it didn't feel like me. I felt like I couldn't really be myself. I didn't feel like I belonged. And then I went to the next department, and it was like I felt like I could just finally take a deep breath, be myself. And it made all the difference in how I felt about work. And when you don't feel like you belong, it's not a comfortable place to be and it's not a fun place to be in. And you only sometimes realize it, how bad it was. And when you go somewhere else and you're like, this is so much better.
[00:23:41] Speaker A: Yeah. And when you feel like you said, when you feel that you belong, but also they make you feel like you belong as well. Just a simple thing of, like, telling someone you're doing a great job. Thank you so much for your hard work. Just a simple mindset.
Things that you could say to someone that's going to shift their mindset and shift their thinking, and they're going to be so happy and excited to go in or to work for you. Because they're like, wow, I'm appreciated, I'm seen, I'm heard, I'm valued, I'm understood. And that's all you can ask for.
[00:24:17] Speaker B: Yeah. And, you know, it often isn't vocalized either way. Right. So anytime I'm coaching leaders and they'll, like, give, oh, this person's doing amazing. I was like, have you told them? No, I haven't. Okay, okay. When are you going to tell them? How are you going to do it? But it also happened yesterday. I support this department. And I went and talked to someone afterwards, and all the leaders kind of started with kudos, hey, this person's doing great. And I was talking to one of these people and he's like, you know, that really felt good to be recognized. I was like, you need to tell her that. Because again, As a leader, you need reinforcement too.
Right. So if your leader is doing something that you really enjoy and that fills your cup, you need to say thank you for that. I felt recognized, I felt supported. And I don't think we do that enough either way. Yep.
[00:25:01] Speaker A: And I think maybe Jen is. Because I think most leaders think that it takes a lot of time out of their day to do it or they feel like they have to go with a big huge spew with, with that person spending five to ten minutes talking with them. Like you said, a two minute recognition.
Just wanted to come over, Jen, and tell you you did such a great job on that project and I really appreciate your hard work.
I mean, what did that take, like five seconds? And they're gonna be like, wow, they actually thank me for doing the job that I, that I did. That, that's really nice. And you're just gonna, it's just gonna push you to grow even further within the organization.
[00:25:41] Speaker B: Yeah. And especially when people are doing something hard that you want them to work on.
[00:25:45] Speaker A: Right.
[00:25:45] Speaker B: Like if you've noticed that you've get, you know, maybe you've given them feedback and you're like, hey, I noticed you're trying really hard to, you know, communicate in a different way. Like I'm noticing it and that just reinforces the change in behavior. But yeah, like you said, Andrew, it's simple. It's a quick, great job on that project. You know, the kudos yesterday was like, I've really seen you step up and take a leadership role and that was like, you see me, right? So the more specific the better. But hell, anything will do. Just give people the heads up. And I will say, if you are an individual contributor listening, please give that to your boss too.
[00:26:18] Speaker A: For sure.
[00:26:19] Speaker B: Because they never hear it. It is so hard being a leader. They just get, especially in the middle management realm, they just get squeezed from both ends. No one's telling them, hey, good job.
[00:26:28] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree with you 100%. They don't hear it. So if they hear it, then, yeah, then, then they'll know that what they're doing is good. So then they'll, they'll continue to do what they're doing. So great, great point. I, I love that. So before we wrap up here, Jen, what is one key takeaway that you'd like our listeners to remember from this episode?
[00:26:48] Speaker B: One key takeaway. I think you know where it all starts, where every leader is, can be a fun place to start, is really get to know what kind of leader you want to be. That's Where I start with new leaders is, you know, who do you admire out there? What do you admire about them? Right. You don't always have to look to past people that, that have led you, because that may not be the best example. But if you have really good, strong examples of leadership, when you felt led very well, what qualities, what behaviors did that person have? I also like to say, at your values, like, what do you value?
Where are your strengths? So I see some, some leaders who are really strong in the details, right? That is great.
But where will some of those strengths become a little bit of a blind spot for them? So if you're really strong in the details, it may lead you to micromanage. And so how do you get yourself out of the weeds? And so just being aware of those gaps, I think is important. So kind of future, we're talking about the future, right? Andrew, what kind of leader do you want to be in the future?
I want to be this kind of leader. Okay, well, how am I going to get there? What are the gaps? What do I need to watch out for? And the big question too is what support do I need? New leaders need support and they rarely get it. Like, 85% of new leaders do not get any kind of training, little to no training. So get support, whether that is something formal, whether your organization offers it, or whether you just connect with peers who are in the same situation, like a mentor, like finding people, because you need support, you need community as you're going through this. But yeah, just spend, even if you just spend 10 minutes thinking about what great leadership means to you, that is a good start.
[00:28:25] Speaker A: Great start. My call to action is to like, share and follow this episode. Jen, I wanted to take the time to thank you for coming on today. I just admire your supportive nature, your vulnerability, how important growth is to you, and your ability to be open and communicative. I just noticed that in our first conversation and I'm just so thankful to have met you and to have been able to work with you and collaborate with you. And I know we're going to continue to stay close and communicate and check on each other. I just appreciate you as an individual and I appreciate you taking the time to come on here today.
[00:29:03] Speaker B: Well, thank you, Andrew. And if it is okay, I'd love to offer your listeners a freebie that they could download if that's okay with you.
[00:29:09] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:29:11] Speaker B: If I. If you have anybody who is in their first few years of leadership, I say like one to three to five years.
I created a scorecard for them to take and two minutes, they can go through and say just go through, rate yourself. And then at the end it'll tell you your strengths, what are some of those gaps and give you a whole PDF guide on ways that you can improve as a leader. So if you're, I can give you the link and people, if listeners would find that helpful, they can download it.
[00:29:38] Speaker A: Wonderful. I am actually going to include that in the show notes so they will be able to download that. And, and I appreciate you giving that out to people because I'm thinking something that I think we're always learning, Jen. Doesn't matter if we've been a leader for a year or 10 years or 15 years, we're continuously learning. So when these things are offered, I'm a big believer in taking advantage of those and I think everybody should as well.
[00:30:05] Speaker B: Yes. And just to pay you a compliment, Andrew, you were just so easy to talk to. You make it so conversational and it's just an enjoyable conversation. So I appreciate you and the work that you do and, and talking to a fellow podcaster is so fun.
[00:30:20] Speaker A: It is. It absolutely is fun. On behalf of myself and my guest today, Jen, I'd like to thank you all for listening today. And until next time, be safe, everyone. And remember that if we all work together, we can accomplish anything you have been listening to. Let's be Diverse with Andrew Stout. To stay up to date with future content, hit Subscribe.
