Labor Shortage

[00:00:05] Speaker A: Opinions expressed in this episode are personal. They do not necessarily reflect the views of this streaming platform. [00:00:15] Speaker B: Good day, everyone, and welcome to another edition of let's be diverse. I am your host, Andrew Stout. This episode is dedicated to all my loved ones who have supported me through, through this journey. Something that's been on top of mind a lot lately, and I talk with a lot of recruiters, people in HR businesses, is labor shortage. It's something that, it's something that we talk about in Canada, we talk about in the US. We talk about it everywhere. So I thought this was something that I wanted to tackle. And my guest today is somebody I think would fit, I believe fits the bill perfectly for this topic. So I brought her on and we're going to delve into it. Her name is Alexandra Bowden. Alex is the founder and CEO of People first talent and retention consulting where she is an industry leader in hiring and retention strategies and best practices. She spent the last ten years focused entirely on leading the way to changing the way people hire and retain top talent for the better. Always through the unique lens of culture. Alex quickly rose to a leadership position in her corporate career, being promoted four times in four years due to her ability to increase speed of hiring by three times, reduce turnover beyond 18 months by 30%, and engage the entire leadership team actively in the recruitment process. Always culture led. She started People first in 2018, which has been named best in business two years in a row, and is a best selling author of two books on the topics of hiring and retaining top talent and entrepreneurship as a working mom. Additionally, she is successful career coach and leads a career development program through Northern Kentucky University, helping students identify their unique strengths and talents and the high opportunities to pursue joy and success in their work. Lastly, Alec's passion for creating great workplace cultures and environments. She and people first have founded a global company, the wellness Universe corporate, that focuses on fusing mental health and well being in a workplace with culture and organizational well being for maximum impact on people's lives. For fun, she runs a local salsa dance school where her husband Freddie is a bourbon enthusiast and is welcoming her third child in April. I people cannot say enough good things about Alex and I feel so fortunate to have met her. I can say she truly is one of a kind. Welcome to the show Alex. I am super stoked to be able to chat with you today. [00:03:14] Speaker A: Thanks Angela. Thanks for having me. Woo. When you read it out loud, I was like that's really long. [00:03:20] Speaker B: You know what? I actually went through pretty good and I was like, that's perfect. So I thought, no problem. I have had people that have sent me ones way longer than that, ones that would probably take up half the podcast. So I'd say that was pretty good compared to some of the ones that I've gotten. I've gotten some that are, like, four or five pages long, and I can't read a whole bio like that. It would take up, like I said, half the podcast, and then we'd be like, okay, thanks for coming on. Good night. Like, we can't. We can't do that. So welcome to the show. It's so nice to have you on. I want to know, how are things with you? What's going on in your world? What's the. Give us the deets. What's happening? [00:04:03] Speaker A: Oh, Mandy. Well, the deets are. I am over eight months pregnant with baby number three, so I'm feeling it. And my kids have been, you know, sensing my weakness, and they, like, pounce, and they want to just be terrors because they realize I'm slow. And that's been fun, too, running both companies, getting one off the ground, getting one, you know, into next stage of growth mode, running the salsa school. That's literally my life. And it's beautiful chaos. [00:04:38] Speaker B: I love that. I just love that you. I love that you. The way you put that. Beautiful chaos. [00:04:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:44] Speaker B: I just love that. Because chaos can be looked at in a certain way, and people say chaos. It's almost like. So for me, sometimes I used to, and I still do it. Everyone uses the word busy, and I try not to use that word so often, because when you say busy, everything just. It's like a panic thing. So I love when you said beautiful chaos, because when you say the word chaos, it just means, like, yeah, all hell's breaking loose. So I just love that you said that. That sounds. That is amazing. [00:05:17] Speaker A: Yeah. It's all things that I enjoy doing. So that's what it's about. [00:05:21] Speaker B: Absolutely. Well, I'm glad to hear that things are going so well. I appreciate you sharing what's going on. Congratulations on baby number three. We all know that, you know, I'm not a parent, but I'm sure your work is cut out for you. Your work was cut out for you for two, and I'm sure it's going to be cut out for you with three, but it sounds like you got you and your hubby have everything under control and smooth sailing. So congratulations to you on that. [00:05:50] Speaker A: Thank you. [00:05:50] Speaker B: You're welcome. Before we begin, I always have a fun question for my guests to get things going okay, are you ready? Are you ready for yours? [00:06:01] Speaker A: We will find out. [00:06:05] Speaker B: My question for you is, if you could have a lifetime supply of anything, what would it be? [00:06:13] Speaker A: Time. [00:06:14] Speaker B: Oh, what a great answer. I was not expecting that. [00:06:18] Speaker A: That was the first thing that came to mind. I was like, time. That's the thing that I always feel like I'm short on. It's the thing that I always, like, wish I had more of being able to savor moments with friends and kids and more time to be accomplishing more things. Yeah, that's gotta be it. [00:06:37] Speaker B: Wow. I guess I was not expecting that answer. And people, she did not know this question ahead of time. [00:06:44] Speaker A: I did not know. [00:06:46] Speaker B: That is a super, super answer. I just love that. That was super thing. I thought I. I was expecting something like chocolate or something like that. That was probably something that I was expecting. Alcohol, caffeine. [00:07:02] Speaker A: Caffeine. Those are all really good options, too. Those are like, you know, behind doors number three and four. I'd be very happy with those two. [00:07:11] Speaker B: But I just love your answer, time. So thank you so much for having fun with me. I really appreciate that. As you said to me today, it's go time. So I say, let's get this party started. Why don't we start off with you telling us a little bit about you, your story, and your why? [00:07:28] Speaker A: Okay. Well, I do have a bit of a different background coming into the HR space. I am not, did not go to school for HR. It's not what my intended career path was ever going to be. I like to say I fell into it backwards. So I actually have a background in professional dancing. I started when I was three, and my parents had put my sister, my older sister, in dance class, and I would just imitate everything outside of class. And so my sister grew increasingly miserable with dance, and I loved it. So they were like, oh, we got the wrong kid in classes. And it was just my passion from that point forward, and I never wavered from it. So I did it very competitively. I sacrificed a lot of time and activities, being a kid, pursuing it at a high level. I chose college to be focusing on dance as well. I picked one of the top university dance schools in the country, which was Ohio State at the time, and I wanted that to be my major. So after that, I graduated with my degree in dance, focusing on performance, choreography education. Went on to Europe a little bit, had some leads with a famous company over there that was like, my dream company, but the owner got sick and my time there expired. It was kind of. Everything was in a holding pattern. So I went back home. Then I was like, okay, well, let's pursue this New York dream I've always had. And I moved there and got into an off Broadway show, like a theater in Queens. After my first audition, I was really, really excited. And a month later, I'll never forget, it was in the middle of Hurricane Sandy. I got an email stuck in my apartment from the choreographer. And I had remembered in our last rehearsal, the director had lined us all up, and they wanted to see, they'd been doing, like, multiple auditions and acquiring dancers, and they wanted to see how we looked all together. And I'm built very athletic. I'm built like a soccer player, probably more than a dancer. And in my age and time, dancers are built like twigs, right? You don't make it very far if you're not. And I definitely faced that quite a bit. But the choreographer basically said to me, you know, it's not your dancing. I can't tell you why, because in HR now, I can tell you it's illegal for them to say it. But he's like, you know, it's just the director said, you know, you're no longer a fit for the group, and the look he's looking for. So that was devastating. And, you know, I. I got defeated after that, but not in, like, oh, I'm never gonna make it. It was more just like I spent the next year working 1415 hours, days, barely making ends meet. I realized, like, this isn't really the life that I want to live. I want to have a family. I want to have some stability. I want to enjoy life a little bit. And so that led me to my quarter life crisis. I was about 25, and I was like, well, now what do I do? Like, my whole life is devoted to this thing. It's always been my passion. I was one of those rare people that knew what I wanted to do my whole life and pursued it. And now I have all these college loans and debt that I'm in right at the, you know, right after the 2008 recession. And I couldn't afford to go back to school, and I didn't know who was going to hire me with an. An degree, so I ended up seeing someone at the time. I ended up moving out to Cincinnati, Ohio. And after about a year of trying different things, I got a call to work at a marketing company as an executive assistant to their vp. And I had done some work in nonprofits before and hiring teachers and running dance school programs in the school systems in Baltimore and New York. And they were like, oh, I see that you've done some social media marketing, because when you work in nonprofit, you do, like, a little bit of everything, right? And you'd done executive system work before. You've done some hiring and interviewing before, and we'd love to have you. So I got the job. I was getting paid $37,000 a year, which I cried when I found out about it because I was making like, $26,000 a year living in New York City. So to me, it was like a million bucks. I felt like I was rich. Perspective, right? So I started there, and very quickly, they were like, oh, you have hiring experience. Would you like to chair our recruitment committee? I was like, sure. Okay. And within the year, they realized that I had a knack for it, and I realized I really had a passion for it. And so I turned it into my full time job. I grew from there. I really have always loved working with people, and I'll explain how this frames my career in a moment. But being in such an incredible culture, that was that company. I felt like I was in a dream because I had always learned being an artist growing up, right. That corporate culture is like soul sucking. Nine to five, you're miserable. You know, you're giving up on your dream to do this other thing. And that's what I expected. I didn't think I'd find something I was passionate about again, and I didn't think I'd find a company that would make me excited to be at work at a desk. And I found both of those things. And so that really informed the career coaching aspect of what I do, which is, you know, you can find other ways to apply your strengths and your talents. You can find other passions and things you're great at and how wonderful it is to find that. And then you can also have companies that make you really want to do your best for them because they create an environment in which you can thrive and they pour into you and invest in you, and they make it exciting to be at work every day. And so if we can get both of those things right, wow. Like, what we're going to unlock for the world. So that's, you know, a long winded kind of journey of how I got into what I do now. [00:13:27] Speaker B: So there's so many things that I want to pack into there. So first off, first off, I love the story of you going from dance to trying to figure out what you want to do to a little bit of marketing and then dabbling into a little bit of stuff. And now you're into HR, and I know somebody who has a similar story who was in the music business. She was in a traveling band, and she was going, going. And then her husband and her decided have children, and then she had a child, and then she said, okay, well, I'm going to stay home with a child for a year. And then she said, okay, well, you know, during the time she's saying home, okay, what. What do I want to do? So she started applying for jobs. She ended up getting a job at a company of a friend of hers that worked at. And it was in sales, and then she'd been there for three years. There was an opportunity to get into HR, and she went into HR. So my story to what you said was that I told her, when she told me her story, I said, it's amazing how you were able to translate your singing career to sales to Hrtaine. And she said to me, oh, my God. She's like, like, what do you mean? Like, I don't get it. So I said, well, when you're an entertainer, you have to do several things, but some of the main key things is that you have to be a communicator. You have to build rapport, and you have to always be in your. Always on. [00:15:06] Speaker A: Yes. [00:15:06] Speaker B: You're in sales. It's the same thing. You got to be a good communicator. You got to be always on, and you got to build rapport. And I said, now you're in HR. [00:15:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:15:16] Speaker B: Those three things, do they fit? She's like, yeah. I said, so you translated all three, you know, those three things to those three careers, and she's like, oh, my God, Andrew. She says, I never would have thought about it that way. I said, well, it's true. It's true. So that's the first thing that hit me when you said that that is perfectly similar to her story. And the other thing that I loved is that you love to be, you know, you love to talk to people. You love to be around people. So for me, being an HR is, you got to be. You gotta love to be around people. And it doesn't matter what the situation is, you know, they're not gonna, you know, because people are not always gonna be happy. People are gonna be happy. Some people are gonna be pissed off. Some people are gonna be sad. But you have to be able to be okay to be around people and know that there are many different scenarios to what you know, to what you can see. So you have to be people. You have to be a people person for that. So I love that you said that. And I just love how you translated everything that you. Where you were, where you came from and translated to where you are now. [00:16:27] Speaker A: Thank you. [00:16:28] Speaker B: So what I want to do is, our topic today is the extent of the labor shortages. What I want to know from you is I want to get your perspective. What is the extent of the labor shortages overall and how does it impact the workforce and the employers? [00:16:48] Speaker A: I think we're all experiencing the labor shortage already. Right. Coming out of the pandemic, a lot of things have shifted, but from just a purely, like, generational standpoint, they're going to get worse, significantly worse. Right. Because we have, I don't know about in Canada, but in the US, for example, a large portion of our population is going to be headed towards retirement soon. And since the last recession that we had, the great recession we had, people just haven't been having children because they can't afford it. It's like my generation a little bit before me, right? We were all pushed to go to college, go to college, go to college, and college prices are astronomical. So then we all graduated with a ridiculous amount of debt, and you can't afford basic things anymore, and so you can't afford to have multiple children. So everything has been tightening over the years. In addition to that, coming out of the pandemic, people have shifted their priorities. So, you know, before it was looking for the right job, looking for something where they could grow their career, looking for something where they could make more money. And when you leave a life or death situation, it really starts to shift the way that you look at life and your perspective and what weight you place on things. And a large portion of our population around the world has started to change their focus on wanting to make a difference, wanting to be a part of something that means something, wanting to care about their work, wanting to be treated well, and wanting to have flexibility and balance to enjoy their life while they have it. So that has made an already shrinking workforce even more competitive and tight because people are unwilling to take less. They're just not. They know that there are companies that will give them what they want, and they're willing to do the gig economy. That's another aspect that's coming to play heavily in gig economy or contract work. They're willing to do that in the interim while they wait to find a company that's going to give them what they want. So there's a lot of factors at play, but it's really changing the way companies are having to look at and prioritize their people. [00:19:12] Speaker B: I don't know how it is in the US, but in Canada they're starting to do that. There's a couple of provinces that are starting to do that and what they're doing is, so there was a lot of companies that were putting job postings out and they were putting the job, but they weren't putting the salary. And there's a couple provinces that have started to do that now. It's become law in a couple of these provinces where that you have to put the salary on the job posting so that people are not surprised when they show up at a job interview and like you said, find out, you know, that it's less than what they thought it was going to be and they know that they can get a little bit more. So I think that what happened in Canada a little bit, I feel like, is that it was a employer's market for a bit and, and people were just looking to work and they would say, okay, well, I'll, you know, in some cases they would take something and say, well, I'll take it, and, you know, but if something comes along the way, I'll take that. But you and I know HR people, that's not the best way to be because you want to have that person. We don't want to be putting pressure on our recruiters to look for somebody new six months down the road because that person, person found another job somewhere else for higher salary. So we need to make sure that what we're producing, the jobs that we're producing, the jobs that we're making available are at reasonable rates and that people are able to survive on those salaries. [00:20:52] Speaker A: Yeah, it's passing in the US, too. There are certain states that are starting to pass that as a requirement. But even before it was a requirement, when I started recruiting over ten years ago, I remember being and pushing my leaders to allow me to be very transparent upfront about what the salary is. And not only that, also, like the good and bad of the culture of what they're going to get into with the role, what's expected of them. Because to me, transparency is everything, right? We know statistically we run numbers, we can crunch numbers on the immense cost to having to replace someone. And so to me, it just didn't make sense. I'm kind of a big picture thinker. I'm like, well, it doesn't make sense to just find someone who's going to come in and expect something else and they're not going to like it and they're going to quit and have to do it all over again, especially being the recruiter and having to produce. So to me it was always about clarity of expectations, transparency, communication upfront so people can self select and decide if it's the right fit for them. And I think that's now becoming a little more prevalent all these years later. And laws are starting to be passed to force people's hands who don't want to be transparent. And the reality is, you know, people now understand what they're worth and what they value and they're unwilling to settle. [00:22:25] Speaker B: Do you think that continuing education or apprentice programs can help the challenges of labor shortages? [00:22:32] Speaker A: 100%. I mean, even just so, I'll use that as a reference. Right. When I started my recruiting career, I would work higher across the whole spectrum of roles. And I remember when I would hire for it, heavy, heavy prevalence was on people with a four year degree, especially for like developers or anything like that. Anything it four year degree. And I remember just a couple years later, boot camp started to come out and the hiring managers were like, ugh, no. Like, I don't want anyone to boot camp. They cannot get in, you know, six months or one year time. When someone gets in a four year degree, it's not the same. Well, then the labor market dictated otherwise, right? Because then they had more it roles and they had people to fill them and they had to stop being so picky. But what they found was people actually can do quite a great job with a boot camp because what they're really learning is the reality of being on a job. They're learning while they're doing the job. They're growing and developing. And so that same principle needs to be applied across all roles, which is we don't have enough people to fill these things. Some jobs are shrinking immensely. AI is coming into play, right? That's going to shrink other roles and industries to a degree. And so it's tightening our ability to be super selective or bias around what someone needs to look like on paper. And I think being able to reskill people, having apprenticeship programs, having upskilling, all these things that we've been talking about for years, the companies that are going to get on board and win are the ones that are going to do it quickly and realize the benefit of bringing someone in and coaching and developing them pending. You have the framework to support that, right? You can't just throw someone into a role and hope that they figure it out. You have to have the culture and the onboarding and the structure to support it. But there's still going to be plenty of companies that want those traditional. Do they look perfect on paper? And if not, I'm not going to look at them, I'm not going to hire them and they're going to be the ones left behind. So we really need to be implementing apprenticeship programs and more certifications and more abilities to upskill the workforce we do have. [00:24:54] Speaker B: And I'm noticing too, recruiters, too, like we used to be, like a recruiter was a recruiter. Now I'm noticing that recruiters are so specialized now. So there's a recruiter, I have friends that are recruiter, you know, the recruiters already, you know, we specialize in recruiting, like you said, for it. There's some, you know, recruiters that are recruiting for mechanics. There's recruiters. So they're specializing more and more in those niches and it ends up being that some of these recruiters end up, you know, they're working for a company and end up starting their own firms or whatever and saying, I know I'm in, you know, my own business, I'm a recruiter, my own company, and I'm going to specialize in, in this niche. And it seems to work because so many of them. Yeah, and there's always people that are looking for work, so it's great. And they always, you know, a lot of them always say to me that we want to make sure that we find people the right job and the right fit because, you know, we really don't want them to come back to see us six months later. Later, of course not because they're looking for a job. We want to make sure that they have the right fit and they're comfortable and they're working and they like the job that they're doing. [00:26:06] Speaker A: Absolutely. Especially big recruitment companies. There's kind of the old school mentality of just get them in the seat, right? Just make the commission, make the money go. But one of the things that connected myself and my, one of my business partners, or connected him to kind of my, my mission of people first to build out the infrastructure for companies to be able to hire more strategically and more efficiently for themselves was because of that. I didn't see the point of just finding someone to stick in a spot. I don't want them to come back. I want them to succeed. I want the company to succeed. I want to save people money. All of it just makes sense. So you have to really take the time. And a good recruiter, I think, takes the time to really understand things like culture. Fitzhen, you know, more than just skill fit. Does this person really fit into the culture? Are they going to thrive in this environment and is the company going to get what they want out of this person? And it's really like matchmaking. It can be very, very complex, which is why people, you know, have these niche, niche focuses. [00:27:09] Speaker B: Who do you think is under pressure most in the labor shortage right now? [00:27:13] Speaker A: I think it's, it's still pretty balanced. There's a lot of employees or people that are struggling to find jobs, especially the middle market roles and some of the entry level positions is still very competitive. And that's because at least in the US, we're still seeing some major layoff happenings at big employers. And it's putting people out of business, out of jobs that have decently high salaries and are 1015 years into their career. And so the higher you go, the tighter the market is. Right. There's just less jobs available. So I'm working with people all the time who are struggling, spending a year and a half looking for the right fit. The difference, like I mentioned earlier, is that they're not just looking for anything and they're unwilling to settle for just anything, which is a huge shift from even five years ago where people were like, I just need a job. You know, like I need to pay my bills, I just need a job right now. It's like. No, like people are taking mental health breaks from work because they're so burned out and it's a toxic environment and they're like, you know what, I'd rather not work at all than to be dealing with this and having it affecting my mental health and emotional well being. So there's definitely a lot of pressure still on employees and people unable to find jobs or taking a while to find the right jobs, but that's going to decrease. And that's just fact, that's just statistics, that's math, you know, like it's just going to get harder and harder for companies. So like I said, the smart ones are getting ahead of it and they're starting to change the way that they look at hiring and upskilling. But there's a lot of people that will be left behind and they're going to pay for it even just several years from now when they just simply don't have enough people to fill their openings. [00:29:07] Speaker B: And I think too, a lot of people are when they're looking for work too, I think so salary, I think it's big, but I feel like people are looking for more when they're applying for a job. So they want to know, yes, we need to have a good salary to put food on our table and pay our bills. But the other stuff is important as well as far as the, you know, is it a safe work environment? Is there, you know, what kind of policies do you have? Have. Do you have, you know, do you have an anti bullying policy? Do you have a, you know, a wellness program? These are things that I think people want to know. You know, how is it. How is it working for, you know, in that team and in that environment? You know, they want to know this stuff beforehand. And, you know, talking to a lot of recruiters, you know, they're deciding when they go to a job interview whether they're going to take, you know, they haven't gotten an offer. They just went to an interview, but they're deciding whether they're gonna. If they were to get one, if they would accept it after the interview right away. And that's just by the. The more questions instead of the regular, you know, what's the. What's the dress code and what's the hours and what's the salary and how many. How many weeks vacation do I get? Yeah, they're steeping away from that stuff. Or they may ask it, but then they, you know, yeah, I have other stuff that I want to ask as well. [00:30:32] Speaker A: Yeah, they're going a lot deeper, and that's something that I coach people on significantly because it's not, at the end of the day, that's not what makes us happy. Right. Those are housekeeping items. Those are logistics. I always tell people to break it down into need to have, which might be four to five things versus your wish list. Right. Like, it might be nice to make $100,000 a year, but maybe you really only need 60 to make your bills if you cut back a little bit, and maybe your mental health will be worth it. You know, if you're in an environment where you're treated really well and you have the opportunity to grow versus a soul sucking, you know, position where it's toxic. And what you brought up is a valid point because it's the nuance that's really tipping the scales of employee versus employee and who's being squeezed the most right now. Because the roles that are less glamorous and the companies that are less willing to offer these things are the ones that are really struggling. And that's why the few companies that are being progressive and that are doing these things, it's really hard for talent to find roles because there's so much competition for those few companies and those few roles where they're doing these things for people. And that's what people are looking for now. So until those other companies catch up, whether you've got a role that people don't really want to fill, you have to be even more competitive. Right. Or whether you're a company that's just kind of stuck in this old school mentality, you're going to be struggling because everyone's flocking to those few positions or few companies that are doing this well, and people are sussing it out immediately. They're asking all the questions and all the right questions. Right. Is this a good long term fit and will it add to my life and not take away from it? [00:32:19] Speaker B: Do you see a light at the end of the tunnel when it comes to labor shortage? [00:32:25] Speaker A: Yes, I think so. I think so. And I'm saying that because unfortunately, I think human nature dictates that we make the most change when we have to. Right? The pandemic was part of it. Right. Why did it take us a global pandemic to start realizing that we need to treat people better? Sad but true, right? Or for people to start realizing that their job and where they spend most their time every day impacts their lives and maybe they should enjoy it a bit. It's going to be the same, because when it comes to a light at the end of the tunnel in terms of solving this labor shortage, what it's going to mean for companies, a few things. One, we've had an influx of women reentering the workforce. The trends for that is that until we fix the childcare problem, or lack thereof. I don't know about Canada, but I know in the US there's a huge lack of support. Childcare is ridiculously expensive. [00:33:29] Speaker B: Yeah. Here, too, women are starting to leave. [00:33:32] Speaker A: And they're five to eight times more likely to take on the burden of figuring out childcare than their male counterparts. So you've got women taking on more positions, but then women under greater stress of figuring out childcare and then removing themselves from the workforce or being, you know, stifled in the workforce. So until we fix that problem that is going to keep compressing and causing issues with our labor market, then there is the flexibility. Right? Everything we talked about, having a better culture, treating people like humans, and how do we support them better at work? Because guess what? Your work environment has a huge impact on every other aspect of your life. You're there most of your day, and when you're not there, you're probably still thinking about it. So. And this is why we started that second company, to focus on the balanced equation of culture and organizational health with employee health. Because if you try to just fix one but you're not actually addressing the environment in which people are working, it's not going to work. Nothing's going to change. Then we have things like immigration, right. And that's a huge polarizing topic politically in the US. But at the end of the day, the numbers show that we are allowing a quarter of the amount of immigration that we were even 1015 years ago. And what that means is immigrants have been proven to create more innovation, create more jobs, start businesses, file patents. Right? Like we're restricting that flow of additional labor into our market and we not producing it here at home. So we're going to have to be more flexible. We're going to have to open the floodgates back up a little bit more to allow us to staff these positions. And then we're going to have to leverage AI in a smart way. Not that it's going to take over jobs. I don't, I don't think that's true. But, you know, there might be certain aspects of jobs that can be streamlined with AI that will allow for maybe less roles required to do the same or similar amount of work. So, you know, I think they're all really positive changes. And unfortunately, it's going to take the physical demand on the market to force companies to change. Kind of like a double edged sword, right? Like light at the end of the tunnel feels really positive, but I think it's going to be almost like a forced change over time. [00:36:18] Speaker B: I totally agree with you. I love when you said we make the most change when we have to. And I feel like we did have to make a lot of changes. And I feel like, I think people realized a lot of stuff that they, I don't know if they missed it, but they realized stuff that they really enjoyed. So, you know, if you were working at, you know, working at a company, they said, okay, you're gonna work from home. They got used to taking their kids to school and picking them up and then being there to, to make supper for them and, and talk about their day and while they're doing their homework. And so, and then all of a sudden they went back. And then, you know, not only did they want everybody back, but they're like, you know, you know, we're gonna want everybody back and, you know, we're gonna have a meeting and we're gonna have meetings at like 08:00 in the morning and people will be like, well, why can't I, why can't you have the meeting at nine or nine? Like, why can't, why can't I take my kid to school and I'll show up and if you want me to stay, you know, I'll pick my kid up. If you want me to stay later, that's fine, but at least I, you know, let me pick my, you know, drop my kid off and pick them up. Like, I've got used to that and I enjoy it, so I don't want to stop doing it. So I think that's something that people, companies have to take into consideration, and I think they got to be a little bit more lenient, I think as far as, as far as that goes. And I think when they are or if they decide that they will be, then I think it's going to be all better, because it's not the newer companies I think, that are starting, I think it's done. Companies that have been in Zixis for 40, 50 years, that's the way that they've always done stuff and it's always the way that we wanted to do it and it's going to be the way that we always want to continue to do it. And, you know, somebody's got to change. It's got to change or else they're going to be behind the times if they don't change. [00:38:10] Speaker A: Yeah, and you bring up a point that I'm really passionate about, which is like, there's something really positive that came out of the pandemic. And to me it was hitting the pause button and reconnecting to what we enjoy and also the restructuring of the family unit, because over years it's just been really breaking down. I mean, it's just been about work, work, hustle, hustle, hustle. How much can you fit into a day? And the family structure has been deteriorating and it's impacting our children, it's impacting our young adults, and it's why, you know, we're so tuned into smartphones as well, and we're disconnected from each other relationally. And the suicide rates are going through the roof. You know, it's like all these mental health problems are going through the roof and emotional disconnection, which we need as humans going through the roof. Right. And it's like we hit the pause button and we realized, like you said, that we enjoy those things, we need those things, we want that connection, and that's what brings meaning to our life beyond just our work. And, you know, we have to find, as employers, ways to contribute to people's lives. How do I help you enrich your life? Knowing that when you're an enriched human being and you're balanced, you're going to be able to give me more back as well. And it's a cycle, and it's a win win. And I'm not just doing it because you're gonna give me more, but that's just kind of a natural balance of things. The more energized you are, the more full your cup is, the more you have to give to your work, and with renewed passion and vigor. And the more impact you're gonna have and the more innovation you're gonna create. It's a win for everybody, and until we figure that out, things are just going to keep creating more strain, for sure. [00:40:06] Speaker B: Alex, if you could choose one word to describe yourself, what word would that be? [00:40:13] Speaker A: I'm one of those people that I can never narrow anything down to one. If you ask me, like, my favorite type of food, I'd be like, well, it depends on, is it dessert? Are we talking savory? If we're talking movies? What category? So there you go. Okay. I would say my word is dynamic. [00:40:31] Speaker B: Oh, I love that. [00:40:32] Speaker A: Can't put me in a box. [00:40:35] Speaker B: I love. I love that word for you, dynamic. What I know of you that fits you to a t, and I'll be honest with you, that's the one of the first things I thought of you when we first. Our first conversation was dynamic, and it was the first instance of that washington, you answering the phone, and I just. You were like, you never spoke to me before, and you were super excited to talk to me, and you answered it. Like, if I was like somebody that you knew for 20 some odd years, and I was like, and that's that word. No. Word of a lie was what I thought. Like, oh, my God, like, here's. This person has no idea who I am, and she was like, like, so super excited and happy to be talking to me. So I agree with you 100% on that. [00:41:29] Speaker A: Thank you. [00:41:29] Speaker B: 100%. Any final thoughts today? [00:41:32] Speaker A: So many. I would just say, like, thank you for having this conversation or letting me go in my soapbox about this, because this is something that I've been preaching about for years, and part of me is frustrated that we're still having this conversation, you know, ten plus years later. But another part of me is like, you know what? But this conversation is becoming more prevalent, and that's progress, and thank goodness for that. So change happens slowly, and, you know, we always talk more, talk about changing organizational culture. People have to be patient. We're not turning a speedboat, we're turning a ship. It takes a lot of minute shifts, right. And changes to create the bigger change we like to see. And changing the culture of our globe, you know, our country, of our workforce and how we interact is the same. So I'm just excited that we can continue talking about it, having these conversations, and hopefully we can normalize these things sooner rather than later. [00:42:35] Speaker B: Absolutely. Well, I want to take the time to thank you myself for coming on. You have a impeccable way of making somebody feel seen, heard, valued and understood. And I want to tell you that I just said seconds ago that you were. I felt you were dynamic, but you saw me, heard me, valued me, and understood me from the very second that we started talking on the phone. Phone. And that is something that's going to be memorable for me, and that is something that you always remember the instances or what have you. And, you know, I feel like you and I are going to be connected for a very long time. And, you know, I'm going to tell you, like, years from now. Hey, Alex, you remember when. I remember the first conversation we had, and I remember this about you when you first called. That's a, that's how memorable that conversation was to me. And I just said to myself, like, I gotta do what I can to get this person on as a guest. And I was super excited that you said right away to me, and I was happy that we were able to make it work. So thank you. [00:43:50] Speaker A: Me too. Thank you. Thank you for providing the platform and preparing thoughtful questions and the discussion. It's always a pleasure talking to you. So I'm glad we finally got to sit down and talk shop. [00:44:03] Speaker B: I love it. [00:44:04] Speaker A: This is fun. [00:44:05] Speaker B: Absolutely. Well, on behalf of myself and my guests, Alex, I would like to thank you all for listening. And until next time, be safe. And remember, everybody, that if we all work together, we can accomplish anything. [00:44:18] Speaker A: Amen. [00:44:24] Speaker B: You have been listening to let's be. [00:44:26] Speaker A: Diverse with Andrew Stout. [00:44:28] Speaker B: To stay up to date with future content, hit subscribe.