Unethical Marketing

[00:00:02] Speaker A: Good day everyone. Welcome to another edition of let's Be Diverse. I am your host, Andrew Stout. This episode is dedicated to all my loved ones who have supported me through this journey. Now, customers want to do business with companies that are honest, responsible, transparent and sustainable, both socially and environmentally. People want to work for a company where they are seen, heard, valued and understood. Now, brands that are misleading will result in everyone falling into a hole of unethical marketing behavior. Now I've been thinking about this topic lately for a lot lately. So I thought today would be the perfect opportunity to dive in head first on this one. Today my partner in crime on this topic is a lady that I truly admire. Her name is Shauna Van Nurik. Now, Shauna is an advocate for making positive impact on the world. Shauna uses her skills to create a space where ambitious women feel comfortably confident, leading authentically and inspiring ripples in their communities. Using custom organic content of marketing, Shauna helps female service based entrepreneurs to attract aligned clients who are ready and excited to invest. She does this by digging deep into their purpose by asking them tough questions and leveraging their unique personal brand. Psychologically based, goal orientated and people focused. Shauna believes that marketing confidence makes a difference and that it not only has to convert, but feel good too. I met this woman a few weeks back and I felt like I knew her for years. She's fun, outgoing, inspiring, compassionate and super innovative. Welcome to the show today, Shauna. I am extremely excited to have you on today. [00:02:02] Speaker B: Thank you so much. And those are such flattering words. Oh my goodness. [00:02:07] Speaker A: Well, they're well deserved. How you been? [00:02:12] Speaker B: Oh, fabulous. Always doing something new. Exploration and adventure every day. Especially with my three littles at home. [00:02:21] Speaker A: I bet they must keep you on your toes all the time. [00:02:24] Speaker B: Absolutely. We did dance class today, so literally. [00:02:27] Speaker A: Oh. Oh my goodness. What kind of dance? [00:02:31] Speaker B: Well, it's a good amalgamation. We've got ballet, jazz and hip hop in this class, in this house. [00:02:36] Speaker A: Oh my goodness. Oh, wow. So you're talented in all three now by this point. [00:02:43] Speaker B: Well, good at watching it, I guess. [00:02:49] Speaker A: Well, Sean, I'm glad to hear you're doing well and the kids are going well and things are good for you. I'm looking forward to the warm weather. I'm sure you are. Before we begin, I always have a fun question to ask my guest to get things going. Are you ready for yours today? [00:03:10] Speaker B: I better be. I know these questions. You better Getting pretty. Yeah. Yeah. Let's. Let's bring it on. I'm ready. [00:03:18] Speaker A: Let's bring it on. So Your question is, if you had a friend who spoke to you in the same way that sometimes you speak to yourself, how long would you allow this person to be your friend? [00:03:33] Speaker B: Oh, that's a good one. That's a really good one in particular because if anybody listening is through the journey that is becoming an entrepreneur or taking a really strong leadership role in your career, you'll know the person, personal and professional growth that goes along with that. So I have to say, in answer to that question today, we would probably be pretty, pretty. Okay, we'd be on pretty darn good terms today. But I don't think I could say that forever, like, if I'm, if I look at, you know, my past self. So I need to thank my journey for making me my own best friend. [00:04:24] Speaker A: Yeah, I totally agree with you on that one. We change as individuals as we get older. I know that I'm not the same person that I was eight months ago, so I could totally see where you're going on that answer for sure. Well, I appreciate you having fun with me. I always have fun with my guests on that one. So I appreciate you digging into my comical fun at the beginning of the podcast here. So thank you very much. [00:04:52] Speaker B: I, I wish I could have made it more fun for you. I kind of made it a little bit deep, didn't I? [00:04:56] Speaker A: You made it as fun as I expected it. You gave an answer and that's the actually type of question. I thought about the question asked you today and I knew that I was going to get that type of answer. So you, you answered exactly what I was looking for. So when we get started here. So, Sean, I would love for you to tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and your story. [00:05:22] Speaker B: Absolutely. So, goodness gracious. I mean, I could always go back and tell you my whole biography, but who wants to listen to that? So long story short, I love writing. I love all things human condition, all things psychology, and what makes people tick. And so I actually went to school psychology. I have a degree in psychology and another one in English, rhetoric and professional writing. I'm a glutton for punishment, so I had to go back. So, yes, I went through with that. And I realized after supporting people with special needs for a good long time, and I still do that on a part time basis because I've kind of fallen in love with it, to be honest. But I realized, you know, I need to, I need that control like, like I described about being my own best friend. I needed that, that control over myself, my life, my time, and where I'M going to set my priorities. And so I started my business, which I laughed at because truly, at first it doesn't really feel like you have control over your time as much because you've really got to hunker down to grow. But, but it's interesting the growth that I, that I went through from starting out as a freelance writer, writing blogs and articles for a variety of different companies, evolving into a copywriter, taking additional qualifications courses and trainings, and then of course establishing myself as a brand messaging expert and organic content marketing specialist and strategist. This evolution of self, both cerebrally and emotionally, you know, really is indescribable. So truly, to tell my story is just an experience. It's an adventure. It's truly all about self exploration. And it's. And it ain't over. [00:07:14] Speaker A: The story continues. I love when you said control. I am a firm believer that, and it's something that I've learned especially in the last eight to 10 months, is that we concentrate on the things that we can control and the things that we can't control. We don't ignore them, but they're not within our control. So I love when you said that you needed control. I could see your business, you're, you have control of everything that you're doing. [00:07:45] Speaker B: Yeah. And in the end, truly, because you see this, and this is really interesting to consider, especially from your perspective, is you see these, these people who are in careers within corporations who, you know, have so much to offer. They're smart, they're organized, they're innovative, they're progressive, they're ready, they're go getters. And yet the dynamic within their, within their jobs, truly, really doesn't facilitate their growth in those areas which could, which probably would benefit the entire corporation as a whole. Which just always baffles me because of my, my experience in psychology and because of my deep set interest in the human condition. I think, what the heck, what are you, what, What a waste. What a waste of beautiful human knowledge, experience. And just what a waste. And so truly pivoting from that corporate mentality over into a more entrepreneurial space was me letting go of somebody else's control over my own ability to achieve success. Right. Success on my terms now, not yours. [00:08:57] Speaker A: Right. [00:08:58] Speaker B: It's just really neat to, to kind of have experience that shift. [00:09:03] Speaker A: It sure is. And you mentioned about growth. Well, I imagine that you have experienced growth throughout your life, but I imagine that you've experienced a extreme amount of growth since you started your business compared to working for a company for sure. [00:09:20] Speaker B: Oh my goodness, yes. I mean, I, I needed to do a lot of interesting emotional and mental growth for my. When I was working with people, special needs on a regular basis because of the diverse extent of the needs of the people who I was supporting. But it was more externally influenced. Whereas here it's an intrinsic desire for growth. And so when you reach an obstacle, it's not just this external obstacle, it's this internal opportunity to see the potential of yourself and the things that you're creating, which is, it's just a different way to look at things, which is quite lovely. [00:10:04] Speaker A: Absolutely. Well, what a beautiful story. Thank you for sharing that with myself and our guest tonight. Shauna, what I want to know is, in your own words, what does unethical marketing mean to you? [00:10:18] Speaker B: Yeah, this is definitely a deep set one for me as I'm very transparent in all that I do. I really try to make sure that in fact one of my key core values is authenticity. And for me, authenticity is very grounded and honest and open and sometimes raw. So when somebody is marketing in a way that is not authentic, that is not in alignment with their goals, not just with their goals, but with their core values, which I believe should be, you know, let's call it a line chart, your core values should be in a direct, direct alignment with your goals. And so somewhere in that stretch there, as a business owner or as a high ranking person in a corporation, your marketing within that space should be on that line, right on that line between core values and goals. And if it's not, now you're getting into some misleading marketing, some unethical marketing, because you're really, it's false advertising. At the end of the day, [00:11:28] Speaker A: I love when you said transparent because I know on my side, as far as in the HR world or in the career development world, when somebody is looking for a new job these days, one of the things that they're looking for now is core values. They want to know what the core values of the company is. So when they get our interview, they're researching and even before they get an interview, before they even decide they want to apply for that company, they're looking at the core values of the company and they're reading their mission statement or vision statements. They want to know everything about the company beforehand. Because we spend so much time of our lives in a work setting, we want to be in a situation where we are in an enjoyable situation, not a situation where we're like, oh my God, why am I here? Type thing. [00:12:22] Speaker B: Absolutely. And, and that's really Interesting because, because my, my personal experience and the experience secondhand, you know, from people who are very close to me in my life is such that even when people are doing, and this is, you're directly, you know, leading this into it, truly. Like I, I feel like you go onto a website and you're reading these missions and visions, the purpose, the core values, all of which, like this is where my, this is my home. Like I do brand messaging, right? And so, and when you read that, it should be, it ought to be throughout. And then interestingly, if you were to speak with, let's say it's a corporation, you speak with the, the employees or if it's a, it's a business. And then you go from reading their, their website, say, and then to speaking to them there, there are too many times that I'd like to count. Where there's a misalignment, there's, it's clear that the employees do not have that same mentality or they feel as though that mentality is a facade. And alternatively, you'll see in solopreneurs and entrepreneurs who say that this is what I stand for, but they're not clear on what that means to them. And even if they feel like it's true, the way they articulate it isn't clear enough. So it winds up misleading the receiver. And then they don't quite jive. And that's a problem because for the solopreneur entrepreneur, any potential clients, your prospects, they come to you and now they don't really see that you are the person you said you were. That's a problem. That's a trust issue. And now they're going to be hesitant to purchase when it comes to a business. Now you're seeing people going, okay, you say that you're inclusive, but I'm noticing that your team is like all white dudes. What's up with that? So there's a problem here and this is where you're going to see really amazing candidates, both as clients and as, as prospective employees who go, yeah, you know what? No, because I can choose. Because people are a lot more self aware now than they ever have been in the past. [00:14:40] Speaker A: Exactly. What are some unethical issues in marketing that you see today? [00:14:49] Speaker B: Goodness gracious. Well, the first thing that pops into my mind is, and this really actually stems right back to my study of rhetoric, which is very, very broadly put, it's the art of persuasion. And so I'm just going to geek out momentarily about that because I really love the notion. So rhetoric being the art of persuasion. It is the art of persuasion in such that all parties are seekers of truth. And then the alternative to that. And I'm not going to say the full word because I'm not sure what the audience is here, but it's BS rhetoric. Okay, so. And this is legitimate. Okay, this is actually, if you look at a textbook, it's BS rhetoric. And that is the alternative. Which is kind of propaganda. Truly. It's propaganda. So you get things like more frequently than anything, lying by omission. [00:15:47] Speaker A: Right. [00:15:47] Speaker B: Just. Just not. Let's just not say that. And they don't ask about it. Or like over promising, like glorifying. Right. Being hyperbolic and then expecting your audience to understand that you are being hyperbolic when you under deliver. Which is really. It's troubling. That's a troubling thing here. So these things are unethical and I believe that your marketing should be transparent and clear and easily understood. Right. By both parties. So that it's kind of like that service level agreement. It's that understanding between two parties that this is what the deliverable is and then you follow through. That's honesty. Right? That's honesty in business. Integrity. That's a good word too. [00:16:40] Speaker A: Integrity for sure. I love when you said over promising because I think back to earlier, what we're talking about with when people are. Even before people are looking for jobs, companies will have claims about their values. So. Or you have processes about your values and you say, okay, we're gonna, we're gonna start a. We don't have an anti bullying process, but we're gonna put an anti bullying process in with the company. And everyone's all excited. They're ecstatic about this anti bullying thing. They've company. The employees feel like they're protected. There's, as I said earlier, they're seen, heard, valued, understood. And then all of a sudden months go by and then nothing's happened. So it's almost like they took this information, they said this is what we're going to do. They folded it up, put it in a book and put it on the bookshelf and said, well, we said that we were going to do it, but doesn't mean that we're going to actually do it. But we wanted to. It's almost like they wanted to. It's unethical because almost like they want to look good in the beginning, but then when a push comes to shove, it's not taken care of. So then that's when you start losing people because people will be like, well, you said that you're going to put these policies in and now I haven't seen anything for a couple months. What's going on? Well, I'm out of here because you're being untruthful to me. [00:18:18] Speaker B: Absolutely. And what's interesting about that, there are actually a number of things that are interesting about that. But something that comes to mind is that, you know, when, when confronted a lot of times a person who has done that, a person or business who has done that, made promises and then kind of just made excuses for why they, these things didn't happen. This is actually like the foot and door technique. [00:18:42] Speaker A: Right. [00:18:44] Speaker B: And they'll say this is, oh, it was just a psychological something that we implemented in our marketing. Okay. But there's, there's a fine line between using psychology, brain science to sell your product or your services or whatever you're doing versus manipulating your audience into action. Like, there's a very fine line. Like, I am very psychology based. Foot and door is great when it's done ethically. That's not. You over promise and then you renege. That is, hey, we're going to start with a smaller offer and then build on it. Absolutely. But what you're describing truly is the foot and door with the intention to manipulate. And. And isn't it just excruciatingly reminiscent of politics? And who likes a politician? [00:19:41] Speaker A: Nobody. Not many. [00:19:43] Speaker B: Come on, let's be real. Nobody loves the politics. Okay, so why are we using these sneaky, conniving ways to market our businesses towards clients or towards prospective employees in a way that is all too reminiscent of slimy politicians? Let's, let's not, guys. [00:20:04] Speaker A: Exactly. I. True. When you, When I think about trust and respect, it takes a long time for some people to gain and build trust. Trust and respect. So once you've gained it, you want to keep it. You don't want to lose it again and have somebody say, oh, I regret trusting you because I put all my faith and everything in what you were saying and now it's not happening. [00:20:35] Speaker B: So yeah, and that's all about consistency. [00:20:38] Speaker A: Right. [00:20:39] Speaker B: And this is where you need to be very intentional. Intentional about all of the ways that you're showing up. And that's not to say, and like I said, I am very much rooted in authenticity. But you can be intentionally authentic. Authentic can look differently for different people. You know, being true to yourself and your business and your core values and staying in alignment can look very different for different people because boundaries exist and they should. But being intentional, I can't say the word intentional. Being intentional about how you're showing up and being in alignment in all facets will create consistency across the board and long term. So that that trust that you establish right off the get go, so that when somebody reads your website, interacts with you at a high level, interacts with you on an interpersonal level, all of those things have remained consistent. Now they've established the trust. You carry that through with authenticity. Right. Consistently, transparently, along the journey that you take with, with the person who's now invested their time in you. And now that trust is not just maintained, but building. Right? It is building upon itself. And that's how you retain employees who want to be there, who want to grow with you, who want to do the work. That's how you retain clients who want to stay with you, who want to refer people to you, and who want to present you with more opportunities for growth and possibility. [00:22:18] Speaker A: Absolutely. I totally, totally agree with you 150% on that one. So something that I read on your LinkedIn page that caught my attention was when you said, there's only one rule in my space, lead with kindness. So how do you do this and not be unethical? [00:22:42] Speaker B: Well, if I'm being truthful, I mean, I don't think that if, if you are leading with kindness, I'm not sure that it's possible to be unethical. Okay, right. You're. If, if you truly are kind, and I mean, we're going back to that word that I seem to have trouble saying right now. Intentional kindness requires you to think about all facets of the actions relating to kindness. And so I'll give you a few examples. But first off, I want to lead with, with the fact that in my house, it is, that is also a thing. So, like, if any of my children are behaving in such a way that requires, you know, redirection, I asked them, oh, oh, guys in this house, we lead with. And they know what the next word is, and it's kindness. But then also when, when they do something that is kind, I say, oh my goodness, I'm so proud of you. Look at you leading with kindness. That's exactly what we want to see in this world. We're here to make the world a better place. [00:23:51] Speaker A: Right? [00:23:52] Speaker B: And so if you are intentionally leading with kindness, I don't believe that it's possible to be unethical and also intentionally kind. And so actually, leading with kindness is one of my main values. It's actually one of my umbrella core values. And I'VE broken that down into three subcategories. The first one being self respect, right? So with self respect exists this idea that you're allowed to have boundaries. You're allowed to be comfortably confident with yourself and who you are in authentic way, right? Being willing to learn and grow and accept your flaws and accept when you do things that you realize later that you probably shouldn't have done, and you're like, well, when you know better, do better, right? So, you know, this idea is really important with regards to leading with kindness. And of course, another aspect of leading with kindness is that leadership is that idea of being a role model and understanding that you are leading by example. You're here in this world to empower and inspire others to make positive ripples in your own way. These are really important aspects of leading with kindness. And last but definitely not least is the idea of community. When you're leading with kindness, it's not just about yourself, it's not just about your role in a community space, but it's also the role of all of the people around you and how you could potentially impact them. [00:25:21] Speaker A: Right? [00:25:21] Speaker B: So looking at diversity, equity, inclusion, inclusion and belonging, creating safe spaces, right? Where people are feeling, seen, heard and respected, valued, understood spaces that are truly intolerant of intolerance, Right? That, that's the, that's leading with kindness. [00:25:46] Speaker A: I totally agree with you. So if you were to see a company or you've heard of a company that is unethical, but they want to change themselves and they want to have self respect, that they want to have leadership and they don't want to just build a brand, they want to build a community. What are a couple things that you would say to this company or this business to get them on the right track of not being unethical? [00:26:17] Speaker B: That's a really great question. If I'm being totally honest. I would introduce them to somebody, a few people who I know who live in that space, whose sole purpose is to work on that, because [00:26:33] Speaker A: I'm an [00:26:34] Speaker B: advocate in that space. I know a good deal about it. But because I work with solopreneurs and entrepreneurs, small teams, I can't say that I know exactly what the first thing would be to do. So I would make an introduction. And I think that's part of my MO with leading with kindness. You know, put your best foot forward, live in your zone of genius, and let others do the same thing. So. And I think that in and of itself is a lesson to a leader who has maybe inadvertently created a toxic space. [00:27:10] Speaker A: Right. [00:27:11] Speaker B: You Know, I also assume. I assume good intention. I don't believe that somebody, if they are, you know, not a sociopath or something like that, I don't see that they're intentionally creating this toxic space. There could be a number of influences that cause this to occur, you know, but it's definitely time for them to take a good look inside and work with someone who knows better and then to listen. [00:27:40] Speaker A: I love that you said that you would contact somebody because when you think about unethical, it would be like you saying, okay, I know what I'm doing. I'm gonna help you out in this. I know you're. You're marketing in an ethical way. I'm no everything about this. I'm going to answer all your questions and I'm going to put you in a right direction and we're going to get you moving forward. When you don't know how to do that, like you said, is a little bit unethical to me. So I always believe that when you don't know the answer, ask for help and don't be afraid to ask for help. So I love that you said that you were. Would ask for help and get people who understand that side of business to help them out. Is for me, the correct way to go? For sure. [00:28:44] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I. And you're. You hit the nail on the head. You know, I know people who know more, who could help better. So why would I not direct somebody to somebody who would do that? And, I mean, I'd like to, you know, further the fact that I would ask them because I'm over and above everything else, I believe in humanity. You know, I believe in learning and growing together. And so even though I can't help with those specific problems, that doesn't mean that I can't be an advocate for this. This person who's trying to do better. That doesn't mean that I can't cheer them on and be there for them, you know, and tell them that I believe in them and tell them that it's going to be hard, but you got this. That's a part of me and who I am. That's a part of how I do my. I do my. My life. Truly. I wanted to say business, but if I'm being honest, that's how I do life. And life and business are intricately interconnected. So truly, you know, let's just support one another for sure. Let's just do kindness. It's not hard. [00:29:45] Speaker A: No, it's not hard. For sure. We've had such a Great conversation. I thoroughly enjoyed this today, Shauna, so thank you. Tell me, what kind of things are feeding your mind these days? [00:29:59] Speaker B: Oh, goodness, that's a good one. I'm actually. So. I consider myself to be a philomath, and what that means is that I'm a lover of learning. So the thought of something beating my mind is 100% appropriate because it's almost like my mind is perpetually hungry. But if I'm being perfectly honest, right now I'm doing all things learning around podcasting. I am. I have been guesting for years now. Really enjoying it. I love having these sorts of conversations. I love having conversations that challenge me, and this has been a beautiful one for that. And now I'm creating a space where I can do it more often on my own podcast, which is super exciting for me. So that's really been my earworm right now is just learning all things podcast. [00:30:49] Speaker A: Wonderful. I love that. I love that answer. I love the lover of learning. I'm exactly the same way. I love to learn. And I find, too, doing my podcast, I've been learning so, so much from different guests that I've had. And it's so inspiring for me to have these conversations, like you said, and learn something. And you take away something. I always find I take away something every time I jump on a podcast with somebody. So I think that's amazing. Yeah. If I were to ask you one word to describe yourself, Shawna, what word would that be? [00:31:31] Speaker B: Well, see, this is a tricky one. [00:31:33] Speaker A: However, [00:31:36] Speaker B: the more I think about it, and this isn't necessarily, you know, I'm gonna. I digress. This is not from me. I asked this because market research is a really important part of marketing. And so I asked this question often of other people is just like, well, if I were to ask you what comes to mind when you think of me, and I mean in life and business. So I've asked a number of people what's interesting and what stands out to me the most, and what has come up surprisingly often and truly, I think you may be surprised, is when you think of me, what do you think of their answer? Yellow. I'm not sure what that means, but I feel like based on their body language, their expression and. And some. I'll be honest, some research, it seems like it's this nurturing happiness. I don't know. That's just what seemed. That's what they tell me is. Is yellow. And I like that because yellow is a fun one. [00:32:47] Speaker A: Well, yellow is a very nice color, for sure. I think it Just, it's also a personality trade as well. So yellow is. I think it's because it's a bright color. I think you know people because you're bright. It's, you know, you and your bright person and you're fun and like I said earlier, beginning the episode, you're outgoing and you're. I find you very, very personable from what I got to know. I had a little bit of time to think about this question when I was writing it down today and I was going to ask it to you. And I thought of what I would think of you. And the word that it came to me was accomplished. And from what I know of you so far, meeting you, you're a very accomplished, warm woman. And just by your story today of where you came from and where you are now and understanding where you needed to go and continuing to, you've mentioned, grow quite a bit and community and self respect. So these are things that you're learning. So for me, the word is accomplish, for sure. [00:33:59] Speaker B: That's actually very intriguing and I really appreciate that. That's really nice. And I'm gonna, you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna write that down. And it's true, it's true. I'm gonna write that down because I think for sure thing, you know, I'm gonna challenge your audience to write even that word down, accomplished. Because I realized in this moment, thanks to Andrew, that I have belittled much of my accomplishments. And I'm gonna go here and I'm gonna write that down, and I'm gonna write down the things that I've accomplished. And I don't mean a psychology degree. I mean those personal and professional growths that go often unlocked. [00:34:41] Speaker A: Right. [00:34:42] Speaker B: And I want everybody else to do the same dang thing. You are going to surprise yourself at how much you've accomplished. [00:34:49] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And the other thing, as I'm thinking, because you're accomplished, I had another guest of mine who is very humble, and I feel like you are as well. So you were accomplished. And just by you asking people to say, what did they think of you? You're being humble because you are asking people what they think of you. So you're not like putting yourself out there and saying, I'm this and I'm that and I'm you, like you said, your degrees, I got this, I got that. You're very, very humble. And I think I said, that's what makes you so, for me, makes you so accomplished because you are humble. You're so willing to Help out people. You're willing to, you know, do what you can to help people out. So for me, again, is a. I love that word accomplished for you, for sure. [00:35:48] Speaker B: That's lovely. And two, I know we could probably talk forever, and we probably shouldn't, but. But a really interesting point that I want to make is, is that, you know, actions speak louder than. So asking others what they. What their experience of you is will be a lot more telling than anybody. Piping up with, I am this, I am that. Listen to what other people say you are when you're not there. [00:36:19] Speaker A: Right. [00:36:20] Speaker B: Because your actions dictate what they say. And that's your personal brand. And that's how you. That's what you should be marketing in order to stay in alignment, in order to make sure that you're not marketing yourself unethically or misleading. That right there, that will tell you all you need to know about how you should be marketing yourself. [00:36:39] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:36:40] Speaker B: Because it's how you already are with [00:36:41] Speaker A: your actions, for sure. Any final thoughts today, Shawna? [00:36:46] Speaker B: I feel like that was it, my friend. [00:36:49] Speaker A: That was your final thought right there. [00:36:51] Speaker B: That was. It was. Because it's true. It's true. Everything that you do and say is marketing yourself, whether it is as a solopreneur, entrepreneur, employee leader in a corporate space, in a volunteer, whatever, wherever you are in the lineup at the grocery store, what you do and say is you marketing yourself and your personal brand, and everything ought to be in alignment with that. [00:37:21] Speaker A: That's beautiful. I just love that. Well, on behalf of my guest, Shawn, I would like to thank you all for listening. And until next time, everyone be safe. And remember, if we all work together, we can accomplish anything.