Designing Safe Workspaces

[00:00:05] Speaker A: Opinions expressed in this episode are personal. They do not necessarily reflect the views of this streaming platform. [00:00:15] Speaker B: Good day, everyone, and welcome to another edition of let's be diverse. I am your host, Andrew Stout. This episode is dedicated to all my loved ones who supported me through this journey. Many times in businesses, including especially during a pandemic, a lot of people were talking about how we get a safe work environment for our employees, and one of those ways that I kind of looked at this week was designing a safe workplace for employees. I thought that was kind of interesting, so I thought, why not delve into this today? So our topic today is designing safe workspaces, and I'm so lucky to have as my guest today, Erika McKay. Erica is a work space wellness expert and advocate for spaces that help us feel and perform at our best. She's a registered interior designer and a member of the International well Building Standard faculty and part time faculty member at Conestoga College. As a founder and CEO of Niche for Design, she's focused on growing her team and their impact. She is fascinated by hybrid offices, flexible co working environments, and the opportunity to create connection and belonging in physical office spaces. Erica is just one of those individuals you just gravitate to. I had a conversation with her, we connected instantly, and I said to her a long time ago, I gotta have you on. So today is the day. We're super lucky to have her. Welcome to the show. Erica, again, I am super stoked to have you on today. [00:01:50] Speaker A: Thanks so much, Andrew. It's great to be here and get to chat with you today. [00:01:54] Speaker B: It is super awesome. You're just one of those superstars and I'm just happy to have you on today. But what I want to know before we begin, how are things going with you? What's new with you? Give us the deets. Give us all the details. What's going on? What's happening in Erica's world? [00:02:09] Speaker A: Yeah, lots going on. I just got back from vacation, so it feels like an extra busy, but in a good way kind of time. And as you mentioned in my intro there, I do teach at Conestoga college, too, so the semester is just wrapping up. It feels like a kind of transition time. And then lots, of course, going on with my team as well. We're hoping to make an office move for ourselves this year and we've got lots of cool projects on the go. So yeah, it's a good busy kind of time. [00:02:39] Speaker B: Lots happening and busy time, and sometimes busy is bad and sometimes busy is good. So it sounds like there's a lot of positives going on in going your way, so that's pretty awesome. Thanks for. For sharing that with us, and I'm glad that things are going well for you as well. And I'm sure that the vacation was probably well enjoyed. I think it was in due time that you had that for sure. [00:03:01] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. Always good to check out, even for a minute or two when we can, right? [00:03:05] Speaker B: Oh, for sure. For sure. So, before we begin, Erica, I always have a fun question that. To ask my guests to get things going. Are you ready for yours today? [00:03:15] Speaker A: I think so. [00:03:17] Speaker B: Oh, I am actually looking forward to your answer. I am super convinced you're gonna give us a super answer to this one. So your question is, if you had the opportunity to give advice to your 18 year old self, what advice would you give to her? [00:03:34] Speaker A: Oh, wow. That's such a good one. I just recently facilitated a panel for some of my students at Conestoga, and that was a topic that came up a lot, and, yeah, so many things. Wow. I think a lot of it would be to try to balance the need to be patient with yourself and in figuring out exactly what you want to do and maybe even more importantly, how you're going to do it, with the understanding that, you know, we only have so much time here. So I think I've always kind of felt the pull of those two realities, and I wouldn't probably classify myself as a particularly patient person, but at the same time, I recognize that that puts stress on us. That isn't necessarily helpful in a lot of cases. So I think that would probably be my biggest piece of advice to myself would be stay focused on what you want to do and keep your ambition, but have a little bit of patience and grace with yourself, figuring out how you get there and actually getting there. [00:04:36] Speaker B: Erika, you banged that answer out perfectly. I love it. And I knew that we got along. Like I said earlier, we got along very well, and there's a lot of things that are similar to the two of us. You just said something else. One of the things is my patience as well. Sometimes I don't have the patience. I want to be like, I'm here, but I want to be, like, here. And I'm not patient about the steps that I need to take to get to 100. You know, when I'm at 50, I'm wondering, like, well, how do I get those extra 50 steps to get to 100? Or why can't I be at that at a hundred right now? So that's. I agree with you. Patience is something that we have to balance for ourselves and understand that, you know, things are going to come, the right things are going to happen at the right opportune time. So we just have to be patient and understand that. So I love your answer. Thank you so much for sharing that. That was great. [00:05:34] Speaker A: It's easier to be patient with others, wouldn't you say, than ourselves? [00:05:38] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. I'm probably the most patient person that you could meet, but I am not very, I am absolutely zero patience for myself. I'm 150% patient with everybody else. So, yes, you're absolutely right on that one. So why don't we start off this. I'm really excited to get into this, but. So why don't we start off with you telling us a little about you, yourself, your story, and of course, your why. [00:06:06] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I guess an important part of my story and why I talk about the impact of spaces and the built environment as much as I do is I did study interior design. I have a bachelor's degree in interior design, and I have experience working in doing design for government and retail, even worked doing hotels for a little while. But I always have felt kind of pulled back to the workspace. And besides that, even well before my academic background, I've always been kind of obsessed with how spaces, the spaces we spend time in work and how they don't work. Even as a child, I was really into that, like, drawing floor plans, and I used to spend a lot of time in arenas, and I would end up drawing floor plans of, like, an arena that would be a better facility for the sports I was doing and things like that, which, in retrospect, is a bit of an odd thing for a kid to be into, but it makes sense now, I suppose. And, yeah, and then in addition to that, I've moved around a lot. I lived in a lot of places in my early twenties, and in my twenties, I guess, in general, I lived in, I think I'd moved like, 15 times in 15 years at one point while I was in school and a little bit thereafter. And what I think was really great about that and impactful from a career standpoint is I started to become really aware about what kind of spaces I felt the best in and where I felt really productive and, you know, what kind of spaces I was more energized in. I've often told people that I love working in airports. I don't travel that much a bit. And I started to notice that that was one example of a kind of space that I find really energizing. And I found that interesting and also interesting, knowing that not everyone feels that way. So I started to be really fascinated by, okay, what is it that makes me feel really good? What kind of environment makes me feel really creative and really motivated, and how is that different from others and why? And so that certainly guided my design philosophy in a big way throughout my career. And then in 2018, I discovered something called the well building standard. And so the well building standard really just aligned with what I kind of already believed to be the purpose that thoughtfully designed spaces that we spend time in are impactful, and they can really help us to be productive and healthy and well. And so, well as the building standard is, it's basically a framework for organizations that want to demonstrate that they prioritize the health of their people. If your listeners might be more familiar with the LEED rating, for example, it's very similar to leed in some ways. LEED focuses on sustainable buildings. Well has a lot of overlap, but it focuses on human health. Not that hard to understand how the overlap would be. Usually things that are good for us tend to be good for the planet. That alignment just really clicked and made sense for me and gave a lot of the scientific background and the information to sort of explain what I had already been noticing before that. So that kind of led us to the real focus area or really emphasize the focus area we kind of already had on workspaces and just in general on wellness and safety and health and the impact of the built environment on us. So, yeah, that's kind of my why. I just think there's a lot of room for improvement in a lot of the spaces we spend time in. So that's become my focus. [00:09:33] Speaker B: So I love when you said that, you know, the spaces that you felt most comfortable in, and that just totally makes sense to me because there's a lot of people who, you know, for whatever reason, you know, you get up in the morning and they're just not happy where they are working. And it could be for a number of reasons, we could have a conversation of probably a couple of hours on that. But, you know, one of the things is that, you know, when people say, oh, my God, this building is, you know, run down, and I got to go to that building, and it's hard to get in the door, and it's just, you know, it's not, you know, I don't feel comfortable there. Right. It's almost like when you, you're looking for a home, you want, you find a home that you feel you're spending most of the time in your home, you see, if you want to feel that you, you know, you're laying your head, you want to feel comfortable and you only want to have a comfortable bed. You want to have a couple roof, you want to feel like, relaxed. So I think it's the same thing. You don't want to feel, you know, not that you want to feel relaxed at work, but you want to make it seem safe for you that when you walk into the building, you feel like, okay, I'm going to spend 8 hours here, but I feel really good about spending my day here. It's comfortable. It's relaxed, you know, a little bit more relaxing. It's safe to. And I enjoy that. So conducive compared to when it's run down and it's falling apart. So I totally love that you said that. And what amazed me too is that you move 15 times. So that just tells me that you're kind of fit into that as well because a lot of companies move a lot as well. So you being in the business that you're in, you kind of understand the feeling of people not just maybe moving offices, but a lot of times people will move from one desk to the next. And, you know, most people don't like change. We will say that. So when someone says, you know, your boss comes, you says, okay, well, you're, you know, I'm going to move you from this desk to this desk. And you're kind of thinking in your head, well, you say to your boss, sure, but in your head you're like, well, why are they moving me? Like, I'm comfortable here? You know, I walk in, I know exactly where I got to go now, you know, tomorrow, it's kind of like it'd be like, take you a couple of days before you kind of get used to that. So I totally get the 15 times. And it being conducive to what you were doing now, to me, it's symmetry. It fits so well. [00:12:00] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And there's so many layers to it, too. Like you say, people don't like change and that is a big one. But it's also the, there's so many different elements beyond. It's not just about the office being fancy and beautiful and all of those things. There's so many other kind of pieces that you don't think about that can impact how comfortable and safe someone feels within an office. [00:12:27] Speaker B: I love that this kind of leads into what we're getting into. So again, we're talking about safe office spaces today. So what I'd like for you to do is to describe to our listeners what managers should be considering when it comes to setting up a safe workspace. [00:12:44] Speaker A: Yes, for sure. So I think the obvious safe elements that come to mind are a lot of what people were talking about all the time during the depths of the pandemic, things like germ spread, cleaning protocols, air filtration, all of these things are still very important and well still promotes this. There's well credits that have to do with that. There's also a whole kind of sub well certification called the well health and safety rating that touches on that. Obviously still important, but I think we're going so far beyond that literal definition now, and we're equally focusing on that feeling of safety, feeling of comfortability, and even the feeling of belonging in a space and making people really want to be there and be there purposefully. So in terms of how that can be a tool for managers, we often talk about how the design of the space should be a tool for HR specifically, but for managers in general, and for the purpose of the elements of that design, contributing to stress management, to creating opportunities for connection, and actually supporting overall health and wellbeing, there are so many implications. Stress is a big one. There are so many health implications for stress, as I'm sure you know, things like mental health and impacting our cardiovascular, our respiratory health, our nervous system. And so really understanding those connections in a way that we can then integrate strategies within the space to help mitigate some of those issues. And it sounds abstract, but it's actually quite simple when you think about it, some of the specific elements to that. So air filtration is an important one, for sure. One of the pieces people often forget, but can be very impactful, is not only having air filtration, but having the ability for the occupants to see the status of the air quality, no. So that becomes a safety mechanism in and of itself, and there are many systems available to do that. So being able to see, to publicly say, hey, the healthiest range of humidity in the air is 30% to 60%. We know scientifically that that helps to reduce the spread of germs, and there's all kinds of other benefits to it. And hey, look on the wall here. It shows us that we are within this range, and you can see that, and we're being transparent about it, and it's not a secret. So that's a good example of it. Similarly, measuring particulate matter and dangerous elements that can be in the air, and again, educating people and making it visible so it really shows that we're not just saying we're filtering the air, we're actually showing you transparently what we're doing. Transparency is a big one for sure from a safety feeling standpoint. The other one is acoustics. This is such a strong correlation with stress in particular, it's one of the most common complaints in an office space. It's also one of the most common things that people think on the surface is not important, like that gets cut from a design plan and so forth is the acoustic elements. But it can be really important and really impactful to create comfort for people. Really thinking about the acoustic planning of an office where you're dealing with this is a big one that comes up with neurodivergent employees as well, because they can be even more sensitive to sound, and that can not only affect their work, but also affect their stress and health in general. So we look at installing soft surfaces in key areas to absorb that reverberation. That can cause stress, for one thing, particularly in open areas, but even in closed areas, if they have a lot of hard surfaces, we also look at the planning of the space, making sure we're grouping noisy activities together. You don't want to have the lunch room next to quiet focus spaces without really properly planning those separation assemblies. We also often look at white noise. It's a great tool, so we can integrate that in a very strategic way. And one of my favorite tools for this that I still think is very underutilized is actually a free address concept office. Have you ever heard of that before, Andrew? It's kind of. It's not new, but it's not super common. [00:16:44] Speaker B: No. Never heard of it before, but I'd love for you to explain it. [00:16:47] Speaker A: Yeah. So sometimes people refer to it as hoteling, but it's not exactly the same thing as hoteling. The idea is that in a free address office, people kind of choose where they want to sit, and typically you're sitting in a different space day to day, depending on what kind of activities you're doing. So if you're in the office to collaborate with your team, you might choose to work in a more lively team collaboration area. If you're coming to the office and you're on Zoom all day, you might choose to be in another area that's going to be easier for you to focus and easier to prevent you from distracting others, that kind of thing. So it gives people option. Oftentimes it's zoned by activity and zoned by acoustic. So we do that a lot with this is the quiet zone. If you're here, it's implied you're focusing and don't necessarily want to socialize. You have heads down work to do. If you're in this area, you want to be connecting with your team, etcetera. So that can be a really good strategy. Doesn't work for every company, but it can be really effective for some. Yeah. And then I think probably the last two other distractions, the big one, looking at placement of workspaces in terms of views and how distracting the views can be, this is very often forgotten about until it's not done. Well, if you're sitting at a desk and there's people walking by you all day and you're seeing that movement in your peripheral, that can be very distracting and problematic for people. So we look at how to manage that based on the direction people are facing and what they're looking at. Similarly, being able to see nature is another one, too, that people don't think about. So placing ourselves so we can see outside, if at all possible, has been shown to have a really, really strong correlation to stress mitigation. We look at lighting for similar reasons. Glare, of course, can cause headaches and reduce productivity. So there are all of these little intricacies and layers, as I like to call it, that can really be considered by managers. And in a lot of cases, they may need some professional support. But sometimes it is just little changes. It's thinking about, okay, is this a distracting, maybe white noise, maybe we flip these two offices so that the quieter people are together or whatever. [00:19:02] Speaker B: So I'm glad you said lighting, because first off, I could definitely see people I know for myself. I've worked with a lot of people who have trouble with the long, you know, eight foot, four foot tubes there. And they're just so bright. And so I find that people have trouble with those. The one thing that kind of caught my attention that you had said to me is the air quality and the filtration and the safety. And what I'm thinking of is that I'm sure you deal with a lot of different businesses and different types. Do you find the newer understanding people, managers, more open to it, rather than the managers or owners who have been in business for, like, let's say, 40, 50 years? And this is the only, this is always the way they've done it, because I could see somebody saying, like, okay, well, yes, all this stuff is nice, but they were working. We've always had our office the same way for 40, 50 years. Why should we change it at this time? Now and I know the answers to it, but I could totally see some managers or owners saying that or stressing that to you or your company or whoever. [00:20:20] Speaker A: Yeah, I certainly have seen some resistance to change like anything. But I, interestingly, I think it correlates more with culture of the organization than it does with how many years they've been in business. And actually, in some cases, companies that have been in business a long time, this almost resonates more with, because they've seen different sides and different scenarios. [00:20:43] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:20:43] Speaker A: When we were in that office, like this was better and people did like that more and so forth. And I think timing wise, right now, because we're in such a moment of transition for so many organizations with hybrid work and everything that's happened post pandemic, most companies are realizing, like, they have to pay attention to some sort of change. And we also seem to be getting to a point where we're starting to understand what the key elements of those changes are going to be. And so that provides, I think, a little bit of certainty for those who otherwise might resist some of it. Yeah. [00:21:16] Speaker B: So you helped us lead into the next question, because I want to delve into this a little bit deeper. So have you seen office spaces change during the pandemic? [00:21:28] Speaker A: Yes, we definitely have, to varying degrees. Again, more so relating to the individual culture of any particular company more than anything else, really. But one of the most consistent things that I've seen change is it seems like there's a shift from a focus on quantity of space to quality of space. And this is an observation that's been echoed in all kinds of reports I've been reading recently from people in commercial real estate and all sort of adjacent industries. And it makes sense because at the end of the day, from where I'm sitting, most companies are hybrid, at least to some degree. I'm quite confident in saying most will stay that again, to whatever degree. I think those that are doing it very effectively are being a very transparent about how they're doing it, what the expectations are and the reasons for it. They're also being collaborative with their team and approaching how to come up with hybrid strategy and all of that. And so in doing that, usually the outcome is realizing, well, yeah, we don't, we do need less space than we did before, and if we want people to utilize it to its fullest value, meaning we want our team to come in because we know there's value to having them connect in person for certain very purposeful activities, not just for the sake of being there. That means quality. Quality. Purposeful space, not quantity of space. That's by far the biggest change I've seen. [00:23:03] Speaker B: So you said a word that I that I love. So there's a few words that I kind of gravitated to in the last six months. One is rapport building, the other one is collaborative. And I feel like that is a key element right there to say because, you know, when you're working hybrid, it's hard to be collaborative or collaborate when you're coworker with your co workers because you're not there with them. So it would, it's great that companies are trying to say, okay, well, listen, we would like to have you back. But they're not just saying, you know, we need you back, we're saying, we want you back, but we're going to make it collaborative for you so that you will feel safe, you'll feel comfortable, and you're going to be able to collaborate with your co workers if need be and easier than you did before. So that's going to be something like, if it's me and I'm in that situation and my manager is telling me that, well, that's going to be something that's going to get me to go back into the office because I'm going to be like, okay, well, they're fixing up my workspace. They're making it safe. They're making it comfortable for me, and I'm going to be able to collaborate with my coworkers. Like, I'm going to be in all day long on that. [00:24:21] Speaker A: And I like the rapport building piece you mentioned, too, because it's the collaborate piece, but it's also the connection piece. We know that when employees build better connections with each other, they're more likely to take better care of your clients, they're more likely to stay on the team in general and be more productive. And so, you know, understanding that having them be in person sometimes for certain things, and so that can be collaborating, but also sometimes it's just working in the same environment and having lunch together and having those water cooler conversations that don't happen when you're on Zoom, giving the space for that kind of interaction to happen. Interestingly, I also have been reading in a few different places how a lot of companies who are decidedly fully remote, even some who were decidedly fully remote before the pandemic, have actually done so much research and digging into their own organizations to try to determine what is the value of our team being in person, and is there really any value? And they have found the value to be so important that they will actually fly in their entire teams from all over the world at specific intervals throughout the year. Sometimes it's like a week, a month, or two weeks out of the quarter, whatever they determine to be the proper formula for their company, just so they can work in the same space and make those meaningful connections that you just can't make exclusively virtual. [00:25:46] Speaker B: Absolutely, and I totally agree with you. And I do see that a lot of companies are doing that. And, you know, and like you said, you don't have to do it every month. You don't have to do it. You can kind of do it, you know, four times a year or whatever. But yes, to have that is great. I have a friend of mine that just did that, just came back from a work trip, and she loved it. It's the first time she just started working for the company, and she just came back, and she loved it. She loved meeting everybody, seeing faces that she hears talking to on the phone. They have teams, so they do have a lot of video chats, so they do see faces, but it's nice to actually see somebody face to face. So I do see the advantages of hybridization, and I do see that companies are seeing the advantages, and I'm happy that people are understanding that. But it is nice to have them coming in, you know, once in a while and, you know, and have that, like you said, that space that they can feel like, wow, this is beautiful, this is fun, and let's do this. Or let's, you know, we're gonna do this. We're gonna collaborate on this. We're gonna play, you know, have some fun games, and we're gonna have a lunch in the cafeteria. Lunch in the lunchroom. We have a nice, beautiful lunchroom. We're going to order in. And so these things are very. They're valuable and very important, for sure. Totally agree with you, Eric. What are some of the mistakes that you have seen leaders make when it comes to setting up safe workspaces? [00:27:20] Speaker A: Yeah, I think one of the more common ones is we do still see companies trying to follow the old square foot per person formula. There used to be a, like, hundred to 250 person times the number of people in your organization. That's what you need. And truly, it almost always is way more space than companies need. Now, understanding that most of them are at least somewhat hybrid, and this might seem like a strange opinion for someone who designs offices, but there's nothing worse than walking into an empty office, because they have more space than they need. And it's not the right kind of space for what they're doing. And so, yeah, that's a really common and unfortunate mistake that costs businesses a lot of money. For hybrid teams specifically, too. I would say a common mistake is not to get really clear on your HR policy before you set up a space. That's one of the first things we ask when we're doing this kind of thing, because if they haven't gone through and done the legwork, talked to their team, talked to their management, figured out what kind of activities really need to be accommodated, then we're just putting desks in a space and hoping people want to be there. And without that really clear understanding from their team specifically about how they work and then having the policies to support that, it's a little bit of an expensive guess in some cases. So I think that's a common mistake and something we really encourage our clients to think through carefully before they make permanent changes to the space. So those are probably the biggest ones that come up pretty often. Yeah. Back to the point we made before about change being hard. It's difficult sometimes for people to see the opportunity that exists with all the change that's happening because there is still a little bit of a pull of, oh, it should be easier if it'd go back to the way it was, but it may not. And so it comes down to being open to the change, being curious about what we now know about how our teams work and what they need and really looking at how we can support them. [00:29:22] Speaker B: So the word that I'm kind of thinking when you everything, to sum up what you said is communication. So I see that. I could see that there could be a lack of communication from, let's say, the company that you're working with and yourself or your team understanding. You know, I'm sure there's processes where you contact, you know, when the company contacts you, you contact them. Okay, what are you looking for? If they're going to give you a very small indication of what you're looking for, and then you guys go on that and then all of a sudden you go there and you need more than what they had said, like, oh, yeah, I never thought of that. Or like you said, you know, we need a bigger meeting space and it's very small. And if we have everybody coming in and that travels and that meeting space is not going to be good. So I'd say communication is probably key as far as figuring out what the company needs and going through the process of giving them everything that they need so that they don't come back after and say we should have done, you know, saying it shoulda, coulda, woulda thing six months down the road, that we shoulda, coulda, woulda done that. [00:30:35] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. Communication is so huge, and our process is inherently designed for that. We don't expect people to necessarily know exactly what they need going into the process, but it helps if they're at least open to having those dialogues in tandem with the ones we're having so we can make sure that what we're providing them is going to have some longevity. Offices have become a lot more flexible, too, and a lot of times the way we're designing them is anticipating that your needs will change, because they will for most companies, no matter what. But it's a fine balance of, okay, allowing for flexibility, because we know your needs change. But let's make sure we're clear on what your needs are right now and make sure you're clear on what your needs are right now by engaging input from your team and really making sure that you know what their preferences are and what their challenges are and how you can best support them in a way that's efficient and purposeful. [00:31:28] Speaker B: Erika, if you could choose one word to describe yourself, what word would that be? [00:31:34] Speaker A: That's such a hard question, Andrew. I am not known for my ability to be concise, but I think I would say, and I think others would say this about me. I think I would say curious. I really have always been fascinated by people and learning how they live and how they work and what they care about. It's part of why I love to travel, too, because you get to see that firsthand. And I also think that's what drew me to design as a profession and probably what drew me to being an entrepreneur even as well. Yeah. Just I love learning about people, and I love trying to solve problems that and maybe a little bit too stubborn to quit if I think there's a better way to do something. So, yeah, curious. We'll go with. [00:32:18] Speaker B: When you say that, for me, it makes me think of diversity of thought. So, you know, they have their way, you have your way. It doesn't mean that your way or their way is the best or the worst. It just means that you have your way of doing it. I have my way of doing it. Maybe one of your coworkers has a certain way of doing stuff, but it's just basically meeting all together and figuring out a way to make it work, basically. [00:32:43] Speaker A: So, yeah, figuring out how you can learn from that. Right. That's what's great that we do all do things so differently. That's what I love about working with the team, is that everyone has such a different perspective. [00:32:53] Speaker B: I love this word curious for you. I think that is to a t for you. It's perfect. You were very inquisitive. You always are asking the questions and the right questions, I find. Especially when you're starting to get to know somebody, I find you just ask the right things at the right time, and sometimes those questions get you thinking, I find. So when you ask really inquisitive questions, sometimes it's like, oh, never really thought about that. But, yeah, I guess I could kind of look at it this way or whatever type thing. So you're very good at that. I will definitely tell you that the curious and inquisitive part in you is very prominent, which is awesome. [00:33:37] Speaker A: Thank you. [00:33:38] Speaker B: You're very welcome. Any final thoughts today? [00:33:41] Speaker A: I guess I would just like to leave your listeners with hopefully a bit of a question, maybe of sorts, to challenge themselves, to ask their team how they really feel working in the office and kind of what they've open up that dialogue a little bit and be open and be curious to what their thoughts might be. I think people are afraid sometimes to ask, thinking that people will then ask for the moon and things that are maybe out of reach. But if it's coming from a genuine place of wanting to be a supportive manager. Ask your team what's working really well in the office. What could we be doing more of here? How are you connecting with your team? Have those dialogues and think about the space as one of the tools you have to support your team, just like you have policy tools and programming tools and all of these other things in your tool belt, so to speak. Think of your space as part of those tools and be curious and ask your team about how that can correlate. [00:34:42] Speaker B: Erica, I want to take the time to thank you for coming on today. You know, when I plan my podcast and plan my episodes, I always have an idea, and I always kind of think, okay, this would be a great topic. This would be fun, this would be engaging. And there are several times that the topic, you know, comes out really good, and then there's those times where it just blows my mind how well that it can go. So I wanna thank you for coming on today. Your information was super insightful. You had me engage, and I'm sure you're gonna have our listeners engaged listening to this, and I think people are gonna think a little bit as well. I love that you asked that question. Cause I think it's gonna make people think a little bit more about their work environment and what leaders and what managers are doing. I think it's super important to have a safe work environment, and all the stuff that you mentioned to me today or that we talked about today would be a huge help to employees and individuals to help them feel safe and want them to come to work every day. So thank you very much again for coming on and taking the time to chat with me. You are a inspirational individual, and I admire you for a lot of things that you do. So thank you so much. [00:36:05] Speaker A: Thank you so much, Andrew, I really appreciate what you're doing here. I think you've built an amazing platform and community, and I'm very happy to be part of it. So thank you. [00:36:14] Speaker B: Wow. It's a pleasure to have you part of it. So on behalf of myself and my guest, Erica, I would like to thank you all for listening today. And until next time, be safe. And remember, everybody, that if we all work together, we can accomplish anyone you have been listening to. Let's be diverse with Andrew Stout. [00:36:39] Speaker A: To stay up to date with future content, hit subscribe.