Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Opinions expressed in this episode are personal. They do not necessarily reflect the views of this streaming platform.
[00:00:12] Speaker B: Good day, everyone, and welcome to another edition of let's be diverse. I am your host, Andrew Stout. This episode is dedicated to all my loved ones who supported me through this journey.
We've all had this type of person, or we've talked to a lot of people who have had what we call a micro manager. So there's a lot of people who talk about this topic, but there's a lot of people who don't know exactly what it is. So I wanted to delve into this today.
So the topic is, or how do I know if I'm a micromanager? And my guest today is Natalie Serbren. Natalie is a superb individual. I'm. I've been trying to get her on, and for whatever reason, it just didn't work out for schedules, sick children, whatever, you name it. But today is the day. And just before we start taping, I said to her, like, I was super excited to have her on, and I was thinking about this conversation for most of the day today. So we are super excited, and we hope that you all enjoy it. Welcome to the show, Natalie. I am super stoked to have you on today.
[00:01:22] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. Thank you. What a warm welcome. Thank you so much, Andrew. I'm excited to be here as well. It's going to be a great conversation.
[00:01:30] Speaker B: It is going to be an exciting conversation. Before we begin, though, I want to know, how are things going with you? What's new in your world? What's exciting? Give us the deets. What's going on?
[00:01:40] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. What's new? Well, what's the expression? There's no Del day in entrepreneurship. I mean, that's my reality right now. I couldn't be happier building a business that brings me so much joy and a business that I am so passionate about. And, Andrew, you and I have gotten to know each other over. Over a bit through our LinkedIn messages. And you know that leaving corporate to go all in on my coaching business was a difficult decision. And now being just over a year into it, I could not be happier. So, yeah, that's me.
[00:02:23] Speaker B: I love it. So I always say to people, actually, I was having a conversation with somebody today, and I was saying that when you are passionate about what you're doing and when you enjoy what you're doing, it doesn't matter. If you were talking to them in person on a zoom in front of them on the phone, it doesn't matter. But you hear that passion. And you can just tell that they are smiling as they're talking about what they're doing. And for me, that is super important as one of my core values is rapport building. And I just feel that is, it just exemplifies what rapport building is because you are talking about what you love and what you enjoy and you're, you're. You're spreading that word to everybody that you talk to and that you deal with. So for me, it's. I love when I hear people talking about what they do, and I can. When I can, I hear that passion and when I can hear the.
I can tell that they're smiling as they're talking about it. It's amazing.
[00:03:35] Speaker A: Thank you. I mean, you nailed it. I honestly, even hearing you reflect on that, I just couldn't wipe that smile off my face. So you nailed it.
It's a big decision. It's a heavy decision to go all in on yourself and take a risk like I did and like many people do every single day. And at the end of all of it, to be able to shut my eyes and go to bed knowing that I'm doing work that I absolutely love and making an impact on others, I mean, that to me, is just everything in this chapter, this season of my life, of my career. So I'm so excited to do what I do every day.
[00:04:22] Speaker B: Well, I love to hear that everything is going well. And like I said, I love to hear that excitement in your voice. And congratulations on taking a chance. Some people are afraid to take that chance on themselves, and so congratulations on you for taking that chance and believing in yourself. Like you said, I know every day is different. There's probably some days that you're hectic. I seen you talking this week, this week about who, you know, something along the lines of pulling your hair out. So I'm sure that there's some days that you just want to scream and toss some stuff, whatever. But, you know, it's a new, you know, every day is a new day, and I. There's a new chapter and something exciting to build on. So I know you're going to do great at what you do. That's for sure.
[00:05:04] Speaker A: Thank you. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Yeah, definitely. You could still have passion and have bad days, right? There's no such thing as perfection over here, that's for sure.
[00:05:16] Speaker B: Absolutely. It's not always sunshine and rainbows. So as long as we realize that, then it's all good. So before we get into the meat and bones of the conversation, here.
As you know, I always have a fun, thought provoking question to ask my guests to get things going. Are you ready for yours today?
[00:05:36] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm excited. Lay it on me.
[00:05:39] Speaker B: So your question is, why is it that when people are asked what they are bringing to a desert isle, a deserted island, they never ask, or they never answer. A boat.
[00:05:52] Speaker A: A boat.
Oh, this is so good. Why do they not answer a boat?
[00:05:59] Speaker B: Right.
[00:06:00] Speaker A: I honestly. I'm answering this from a place of. When I'm asked that question, I envision myself on this island. So I envision myself being, like, teleported to this island, and there's no option for a boat. So I'm thinking that's not even part of the option. But you're so right. Why don't people say a boat? I mean, that's gonna be my response going forward. Andrew, usually it's like, you know, a swiss army knife or, you know, water. I don't know, something to say alive. But, yeah, no boat would be very smart.
[00:06:41] Speaker B: It just. I just thought of it today, and I was like, why do. Why don't people. And I. You're absolutely right. I've been asked that question a gazillion times, and I've never said boat either. I've always said, like you said, water, a knife, you know, something to, you know, that I could prepare, you know, food with maybe a book, that type of stuff, but never a boat, which would be probably the easiest thing to say. Well, but I guess if you're. If there's a boat there, then you're not deserted, because you could always get off the island, but with the boat, so.
[00:07:13] Speaker A: Right.
[00:07:13] Speaker B: It's just. It's a. It's a twofold, but it is. It was a fun, interesting question, and I enjoyed having fun with you on that, and you did great.
So why don't we start off, Natalie, with you telling us a little bit about you, your story, and, of course, your. Why.
[00:07:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
So me, my story. Well, if you want to take it really back, way back, I was born. I was born and raised in Toronto, or I should say the outskirts of Toronto, and I grew up with immigrant parents, so they came to Canada with nothing. Your typical immigrant story. And as a child, watching them go from not having much to then having some and then having a little bit more, I grew up with this appreciation of, I want to position myself for success as quickly as I possibly can coming out of school, I didn't want to have to live the struggled life.
It was important for me to create a lifestyle that was easy. I wanted life to just be easy because I saw how life could not be so easy, and I didn't want that for myself. So that motivated essentially every decision.
Going into school, coming out of school, I landed my first finance job at the bank of Montreal. So bemo capital Markets, which is a top five canadian bank here. And I stayed for the next 17 years, and I just pivoted from one type of role to another type of role. And I got onto the trading floor pretty quickly, I would say. After two years, I got onto the trading floor, and I had my hand in sales and trading. I traded one of the most dynamic, fast paced, crazy markets. Futures. It's a futures market. So outside of trading, FX futures is the fastest, and the notional value on these contracts are through the roof. So, Andrew, if you make a mistake, you're making a real sizable mistake. So I wore that stress in my life for about four years. And after I had kids, I realized, you know, I want something different. And that led me to more of my sales experience for the rest of my time at the bank. And the one thing that grew as my experience at the bank group was my love for mentoring others more specifically.
You know, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna say that my journey, you know, along that corporate ladder was easy. I definitely had my share of challenges, and when I reflect back at my journey, there was things that I wish I would have had done differently. So when juniors started coming onto our desks, I would always be the one to, I'll take you under my wing. I'll show you how to do things. Here's some pieces of advice that would have helped me. I want to extend that to you. And that was always my approach. And then that mentorship passion started to evolve, and I started becoming, you know, immersed in mentorship outside of the bank, in industry groups, and truly from that, one thing led to the other. And it was that love for mentorship that I had my aha. Moment when Covid hit, you know, the famous Covid epiphany, like, I'm gonna now change my whole life story. I know I'm not alone. And I realized that I was ready for a brave new chapter in my career. And it was scary. It was so scary. Given the risk, I'm the definition of risk averse. Let's just start off with that. So the idea of leaving my safety net that I built around my career on the trading floor, it felt. It sounded insane to, like, absolutely insane. And it took me two years. It took me two years to make the pivot, and I haven't looked back ever since. So that's my story. What's my why? I mean, we got into the why a little bit at the beginning.
I just really, really freaking love helping others fast track their successes in the corporate world. I'm a firm believer that in order to win in this game, because I do, I view it as a game. Every company, it's the quicker that you understand the game to be played at your company and how to play it, what the rules are. The quicker youre a, the quicker you will ascend.
If I can be a part of that for my clients in helping them fast track their successes, I mean, that's everything to me, because I know what it feels like to be overlooked, to be stuck, to be wanting that promotion and not getting it. And then I also know what it takes to do and receive all of that, to be successful in all of those achievements. So I've gone through it myself, and if I can be able to give that back to others, that's everything for me. So that's my why.
[00:12:56] Speaker B: Natalie, I just love your story.
What comes out at me with your story is that you understood and you found out quickly that you enjoy mentoring others.
And I'd say that this is probably, you probably didn't realize it at the time, but what you're doing, this is probably why you're doing or what you have, why you have such a passion, why you love doing what you're doing now, because you loved it back then and you loved seeing people start off with you and then, and seeing them move up throughout the chain of the company. And you could say, well, you know, not to, you know, put your head up and be cocky about, you know, I was the one that did that. But, you know, it's a very humbling, inspiring thing to do this, to take somebody under your wing and say, you know, I'm gonna work with you. I'm gonna put, you know, I got the patience. I got the trust. I want you to, you know, I want you to feel comfortable around me, and I'm going to mold you, help you succeed in what you're doing. So that's what amazes me about your story, is that you were doing that way before, and you probably didn't realize it, and that's probably what a lot of people, they don't realize when they're, that they're actually doing, when they think about, okay, well, I don't. I can't do that job because I have, I don't have this schooling, but they don't think about what they were doing in their past and how it can translate into their new career. So what you were doing literally translates into what you're doing now.
[00:14:44] Speaker A: Yeah. Nailed it. Yeah, that's exactly it. You know, there's.
And to your point, I didn't think I wasn't doing it so I can be here today. I didn't know here existed. You know, I, you know, for a while in my journey at the bank, I started to get that feeling, that itch, that oh so common itch, that maybe this isn't what I want to be doing. But it wasn't until that aha moment during COVID that I knew what it was. So it. It all built on top of each other. The stepping stones all started to make sense the more I started to lean into this new path.
[00:15:25] Speaker B: So this will segue into what we're going to be discussing today. So again, we're going to be talking about micromanaging. So what I want to know from you is what does it mean when someone is micromanaging? Because a lot of people probably don't know what they think. They know what it is, but I want to delve into this and make a little bit, few more people understand it a little bit better.
[00:15:47] Speaker A: Yeah, great question. So when I think of micromanaging, I think of that excessive control, that manager that just has to be involved every single detail. Right. So there's no effective delegation of any sort. Or even if they do delegate, they're checking in on the individual multiple times to understand the. The progression being made and not truly giving the them the autonomy that's associated with delegation.
So the frequent check ins, all the unnecessary inter instructions like, oh, don't forget to do this, don't forget to do that type of follow ups.
That's what I think of when I think of micromanagers.
[00:16:43] Speaker B: I love that you said that. So I agree with you 100%. And when you say check ins, I want to reiterate for the listeners here, a check in is, you know, there's different types of check in. So like you said, there. There's the check ins that, you know, like, you know, this has got to be done. Why is this not done? You have x amount of days before the end of the month to do it compared to, hey, Natalie, how's everything going? I just want to check and see how you're doing, you know? Are you okay? How's the workload? Do you need any help? Do you need any assistance from me? Have you taken a break today? Have you had your lunch today?
These are things that are going to show that you care and that you're vulnerable. The other way is, you know, trying to stick it to the individual to show that you are the superior, and that is not going to get you anywhere, and that doesn't gain you to trust and respect from your team. So I wanted to kind of reiterate from the, you know, define the two and differentiate from the two so that the listeners understand that it's okay to check in. However, this is how we should and this is how we shouldn't.
[00:18:02] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. You. You really did such a great job in, in defining the two. It's that compulsive checking in where you don't. You don't trust. You don't trust the person that they're doing what they're supposed to be doing versus checking in to offer support and guidance if they're stuck. That's. Those are two different check ins. Absolutely. So, yeah, that was. That was a perfect addition.
[00:18:32] Speaker B: So.
So now that we know, like, what it is, what do you think, or why do you think it? What do you think causes people to micromanage?
[00:18:48] Speaker A: Yeah, so something I just said, I feel like the trust factor is a big one there, and the lack thereof, I should say.
Right. So maybe you don't trust that the person that is, that you've so called, quote unquote, delegated the task to or asked to complete has the capability or will do it as good as you. There is an element of a perfectionism.
Right.
Your, like, your need to control the situation.
I hate to say control freak, but it's a little bit of that as well. A lot of that, you know, and then in other instances, maybe. Okay, maybe it's not a personal situation. Maybe you're feeling pressure. There's also a different angle. What if you're feeling the heat from your management team on meeting this deadline and that pressure comes out in a stressful manner and you. You're stressed out that you're not going to be able to deliver this because you're waiting on so and so to complete what they need to.
So it could be an inadvertently just put taking that stress and executing that stress in a way that you probably don't even have awareness in that moment that you're creating that micromanagement and that control over that individual to not give the trust in the reins to be able to complete what they need to complete.
[00:20:21] Speaker B: Do you think that has a lot to do also, too, with training, because they are put into a situation that they are not familiar with. So they, that's all they know, and they feel that that's the best thing to do. So they just go with that instead of figuring out how to do it.
[00:20:42] Speaker A: So here's my two cent on training.
I feel like it just doesn't happen. Like, correct me if I'm wrong, but how many, how many managers do you know get, you know, congratulations, Andrew. You've just been promoted to lead this team.
We believe in you so much. We're going to back you with this amazing leadership training.
You're going to be set up for success.
I mean, I'm sure it happens, but those, those situations are very few and far in between. So I don't think it's a lack of. It's poor training. I just think that the issue there that we're highlighting is that there's not enough training out there.
[00:21:30] Speaker B: I asked this. I asked this because I, I was talking with somebody about this the other day, and so what happens, I think, is that there's a lot of people who take on a management position and they're not processing what it actually entails or just the first process. First thought process is, whoo. Pay bump. That's the first thought that they have. They have in their head, I'm getting a pay bump.
So my thinking is, which you're absolutely right, I wanted to get your thoughts on, because I agree with you 100%. My thought is, is that when you were given, so let's say you come to me, Natalie, and you say, hey, Andrew, you know, you're doing it great. You said you're doing a great job. We love your work ethic. We love how you. I do the task, everything. We want to make you a manager of the department.
So there's. For me, there's two responsibilities. The first responsibility is, like you said, the company to say, hey, we're, you know, we're sure that you haven't had very much training, and we are in the firm belief that you can always have training. There's never a time where you know everything.
So we're going to make sure that you have all the tools necessary to run your team and be successful.
The other side of it, which I think people forget, is me. I'm going to say to you, Natalie, super. I'm super excited about this position, but I want to make sure that I have all the tools as well. So I'm going to come to you and I'm going to get. Ask questions and I'm going to get exactly what I need, because I don't want to just be a worker be. I want to make sure that I am there for my team to answer all their questions and to help them with any tasks and to be there for support. That's my goal as a manager of the team. So I want to make sure that I'm doing that. I don't want to just have the title. I actually want to be part of it.
Kind of like a two fold there. And I wanted to ask your opinion to see that, because I firmly believe that it's the two parties, and you were absolutely, positively right on that. It never happens.
[00:23:56] Speaker A: It's sad. It's such a lost opportunity, if you think about it, you know, here, management wants to promote great leaders. You're not just gonna make someone a manager just because. Right. That's a testament and reflection that the management team sees something in you and that you are aligned with their vision and mission to be able to continue growing the business, like revenue, everything, like efficiency, all of. All of the things.
So to prime you, so to speak, and to gift you with this new opportunity, and then to just leave out the support element and the development piece of it to ensure that you're set up for success so that you could actually fulfill everything that they're hoping you to fulfill.
It's just a lost opportunity.
[00:24:58] Speaker B: I agree with you 100% because you want that manager. You don't want them to. You don't want them to just be the manager of that department. You potentially, like you said earlier, you want them to move within the company. You want them to manage, and then maybe a manager of a higher department, so that's a thing. Or maybe, you know, and then eventually, maybe a director's role, you want them to kind of move up that way, but if they don't have the support in the training, they're just gonna be, you know, it's gonna be. They're fighting a losing battle, as far as I'm concerned. And a lot, like you said, a lot of them don't even realize it.
I feel like they're just there for the pay bump, and I don't know, I just. For me, maybe it's me, maybe it's the two of us, Natalie, or, you know, but you'd think that that's what people would. Would want, but unfortunately, it's not the case.
[00:25:57] Speaker A: I mean, I feel like there's so many instances and so many examples where, you know, individuals, individual contributors get the opportunity to now lead the team, and they want to make the most of the opportunity, regardless if they're being supported by the company to do so. And because there's so many courses now available.
Right. And, or you can work with a coach or consultant. There's so many different ways to be able to create that experience for yourself.
That's what really sets apart the leaders from the great leaders. Right. When you're just doing it for the pay bump and you're okay at your job versus really making an impact and potentially changing people's lives with your leadership. Right? What's the same? People don't leave bad jobs, they leave bad managers. Right. So you get to decide for yourself regardless of whether or not your company is supporting you. You know, obviously, like, it would be wonderful if the company does, but if not, what's to say that you can't create that right for yourself? So, yeah, those are just my two added sense there.
[00:27:12] Speaker B: Oh, for sure. So we might have talked about a little bit, but I want to kind of delve into a little bit. So do you think someone has always been a micromanager or can they turn, or do they turn into one? Like, is it, is there somebody who becomes a manager taught is the way that you and I think that, you know, they start off the way that you and I think they should, and then they become a micro manager as they continue through the process.
[00:27:46] Speaker A: I mean, when I think of the main characteristics of a micromanager, so if you're thinking about, you know, being really that need to be in control of the situation, maybe not very trusting of others, you're a perfectionist yourself. I mean, you can, you can individually carve up those characteristics and see them in other individuals where they're not micromanaging others. Right? So I would say that you're not born a micromanager. You become one.
And I think a lot of those instances where you become, to your point, what you said earlier, you might not even be aware that you are one. So that's for starters. Right? And then second, secondly, it's what happened to you in your past to make you become one. So, so what, quote unquote shitty situation happened to you where all of a sudden you don't trust your team, right? Or you have this heavy need to control the situation. Are you coming off of a situation where you didn't and you got burned in the past?
So I always like to look at it from, you know, the bird's eye view, so to speak. And, like, what's the bigger picture here going on? And it's not just you in the situation with this one teammate.
Right. It's what's led to you treating this teammate in such a way. And then also with this awareness piece, if you're lucky enough to be able to have that aha. Moment, what are you gonna do about it? At that point.
[00:29:27] Speaker B: I can see some situation, and I have seen it, where there is a manager, a department of somebody comes in new to the department, lots of experience, knows what they're doing, and all of a sudden, that manager becomes a little, which they shouldn't, but they're coming, you know, they're a little bit nervous because, like, oh, my God, here's this newbie coming in. They know a lot of stuff, and they can almost. And they're asking me stuff about what I do, and they're asking questions, and they want to learn the stuff that I do. Are they. Are they trying to take my job? But in reality, what they're looking to do is, in my mind, they're not looking for your job. They're looking for somebody else's job, but they're just trying to learn the tasks and the skills in order to get to that next level. So, you know, again, we talked about it earlier before, why not work with that person, help them, mold them, and then you can say, you know, proud of yourself and humble and say, hey, you know, I work with this person, started on my team. They were there for a couple years, and now they're moved up to that. You know, I was a, you know, I was a good part of that. That helped them to go there.
[00:30:52] Speaker A: Absolutely. I mean, perception and reality are very two different things.
And being able to be humble enough to recognize for yourself when you're creating your own interpretation of what's going on versus what's actually going on are two very different things. So, I mean, that's just the, we're getting into the nitty gritty of the human psychology of it, all right? And how the mind works. And it's fascinating to me, to be honest, to dive deeper into this because why do we show up the way we do? Do you think a micromanager starts his day off or her day off, looking at themselves in the mirror saying, I'm going to own this today. I'm going to be the worst slash the best micromanager ever today? That's likely not what's going to happen, right? So it's that thought process and that the mindset piece comes and plays a huge part into how we show up every day.
[00:32:01] Speaker B: Do you think micromanagement will ever phase out?
[00:32:05] Speaker A: Hmm?
I mean, do I hope it like hoping it will and think, thinking that it will. Two different things. I absolutely hope that it phases out, but the reality is it likely won't.
Here are ways that it can improve. Right. A management is more aware of this and is looking for this type of behavior and calls it out. So that self reflection, that awareness piece needs to be, needs to be implemented in performance reviews, for example. It needs to be part of that checkbox. There needs to be a demonstration that, you know, if you're a manager, you likely have a manager. Right. So what's the process there to be able to decisely determine or determine effectively if that individual has those tendencies. Right. So bringing awareness and working with them for alternative strategies that can help them counter balance what's going on and creating that need to micromanage. So what we were speaking about earlier with the support, like that leadership development, that's what's going to change the frequency and how. Yeah. The frequency of micromanagers in our workplaces.
Right. So the more support embedded into leaders on a daily basis, that's what's going to create that. Aha. That level of awareness that they can then reflect on their own behaviors and realize how they're impacting the team.
And then they're given, they're given the opportunity to make changes, but with support versus ultimatums. Right. Or on their own.
[00:34:11] Speaker B: I am like you, I do hope it phases out. I was talking to a business owner probably good couple years ago, and they were, business was increasing. They're so like, they're, you know, I kept talking to them regularly and they're like, oh, my God, I'm so busy. I just know I don't know how to transfer my time. I don't know what to do. Like, everything is coming at me, which is good, but I just don't know, like, what to do. So I was saying to them at the time, like, you know, you know, if you could do it, you know, I probably try to look and get some help. And they were saying to me, well, then I have to, I would have to take some time out of my day and try to start to train them and work with them and teach them the things that I know, the ways that I like to do things. I would have to do that. And I said, well, yeah, but the bonus is that you will be, be able to give them some tasks and some of the things that you are doing now you won't have to do. And then you can focus on other things, like building your business even more and concentrate on having conversations with people, you know, talking about business, building your brand, that's the type of thing that you should be doing.
The paper stuff. Yeah, sure. But I mean, if you have somebody to do that, then.
So I.
I'm not, you know, I'm like you. I don't know if it's going to change all that dramatically because I think people, and like I said, I think it's because people have a certain way of doing things and they don't want to change it. They just want to keep doing it the same way. And I'm a firm believer in diversity of thought. You. There's, there are different ways of doing stuff. It just means that, you know, Natalie does something some one way, Andrew does something another way. We're both doing the same thing, but it's just different. But we still get to the same point.
So what? You know, there's no difference. There's no better way, I think, of doing stuff. So I think it, you know, they just have to get to that point where they understand that this is going to help them and this is going to push them forward. Just like a manager in a department.
It will, it will help them to do better. They might, even a manager might have more time to do check ins with their staff because they have other people doing tasks that they were doing before.
You know, that's a way to look at it in my mind.
[00:37:10] Speaker A: Yeah. No, and it really does boil down to whether or not you want to be a better leader. Right? If you want to, if that's a goal of yours and you genuinely want to be and do better for your team, then adjusting your behavior like we're talking about becomes an easier lift. It's not so heavy, it's not so challenging. You know, you're open to the possibility of changing the way that you do things so that you increase collaboration, you improve the working relationships with your team.
But if you're so stubborn and stuck in your way that you think that everything that you're doing is perfect and you have no reason to change that, then you're gonna for sure continue to be that micromanager that you always have been. And likely, if you're that way, you probably don't even think that you are. And you think it's nonsense that people call you a micromanager, right? Cause you're so narrow minded in your thinking. So I really do think it boils down to what your goal is when it comes to how you wanna show up as a leader for you and your team.
And depending on what that is. That's gonna decide whether or not you're open for that change.
[00:38:37] Speaker B: I love everything you said there. I totally agree with you 100%. I don't think I could say I could have said it any better.
I'm in full agreement on that.
What is your favorite story from your career?
[00:38:54] Speaker A: Are you looking for a micromanaging story? Are you looking for any type of story?
[00:39:01] Speaker B: Any type of story? It could be a management micromanaging story. It could be a story about you. But something that's your favorite, something that. It's like a memory of your career that you. You think about, like, all the time, like, constantly.
[00:39:18] Speaker A: I mean, I'm. I'm huge on self advocacy, right? So that, to me, is, you know, that. That's what changed everything when it came to.
Started starting to see true advancements in my career. So it's the memory of me finally being able to, like, stand up for myself. Sitting across the table and actually asking for what I want is very memorable to me because it. That's what created that momentum that I needed that truly lasted for the last third of my year, is where I really fought back to ensure that there's, you know, the. The pay gap that I was experiencing closed by the end of my so called fight.
Right. And promotions, seniority, responsibility, respect, all of it. Everything grew. Everything became so much easier as soon as I was able to take control out of. Of my career. And I was only able to do that because of the self advocacy strategies that I implemented. But that's more of, like, the professional side of things. I also have. I worked on a trading floor for 17 years, so I have some stories.
Yeah, some fun stories.
And I'll leave off with this really funny one. Sure. I'll never forget the day that I was talking to a client and I was doing, like, it must have been in my first month or two on the trading desk. So I was new. I was naive. I was scared beyond belief every single day, as you can imagine, in that environment and specifically on that desk, trading that type of notional value. And I'm on the call about to execute a very large order. And doesn't a mouse.
A mouse run over my foot? So what do I do? Do I complete the order? Of course not. Why would I do the more logical.
I rip off my headset in the middle of the order and start screaming on the trading floor and ran out of that room.
It was a very memorable moment and one that I never lived down again.
So people would buy fake mice and just put it everywhere around my desk area. So, anyways, I thought that was really funny to end off our time together here.
[00:41:58] Speaker B: Oh, my God. That is. That is an amazing story. And you're absolutely right. Like, you know, if you are, you know, if I saw something that scared me, too, I probably would just. Same thing. I'd probably be like, I'm out of here. Yeah. You know, I'm. You know. You know, I need to. You know, this is such a big sale, but I'm out of here. I gotta.
[00:42:16] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:42:17] Speaker B: So I totally get it. I totally get it. But, you know, just, you know, your thought processes of, like, oh, my God, what is that? And just is fantastic. What a great story.
[00:42:30] Speaker A: Right? It's not every day when that happens.
[00:42:33] Speaker B: No.
[00:42:34] Speaker A: I hope to not live another day of that.
So, I mean, I.
It's not like life prepared me for that moment.
[00:42:44] Speaker B: No, not at all. Not at all. So, you know, this has been such a great conversation. Really, totally enjoyed it. I thought it was thought provoking and vulnerable. And I think we gave some great tips to our listeners today.
Do you have any final thoughts?
[00:43:03] Speaker A: Don't be a micromanager.
Be better. Do better.
No. My final thought is take the time to really sit with your thoughts, to understand what you want to achieve in your working environments, with your team, and then ask yourself truthfully, how could you be showing up differently in order to make more positive change?
[00:43:34] Speaker B: I love that.
I love that thought. I love that sentiment.
I want to take the time to thank you for coming on today.
I know you mentioned that you spoken previous many, several times, and we've gotten to know each other through talking on the phone, and I think you are a sensational individual. I. That's why I kind of. I've wanted to have you on here as a guest for, like, the longest time, and I had it in my head that I was going to be as patient as possible in order to have you on, because I just.
You're so. You're phenomenal and everything that you do and everything that you say and how you handle yourself, and you are the.
You're very genuine in your way. Like, what you see is what you get fewer. You don't change your way.
Any situation. You are, Natalie, in every situation, on a podcast, on a telephone call, on a video chat, in, you know, I'm sure, in person, and I hope one day I get to meet you in person. But I just could tell that you are true, genuine individual, and I truly believe that that is super important in today's business world. I am a firm believer in rapport building and collaborating and getting to know people. And I have to say that it's been, I've met many people through my time on LinkedIn, but it is a has been a pleasure to get to know you and to meet you, and I look forward to the future of getting to know you as the individual and working with you. And I do have plans to have you on here again. So again, thank you. It's a long winded thank you. But thank you very, very much. I am again honored and privileged to have you on here today.
[00:45:47] Speaker A: Wow. Thank you so much. That was so sweet.
Best compliment that I could have ever received and heard in this moment. So I appreciate that and I've loved our discussion here today and I hope it really resonates and helps anyone and everyone that is listening to this wonderful podcast. So thank you for putting this out in this world and I having me be part of it.
[00:46:13] Speaker B: I'm sure it will. On behalf of myself and my guest Natalie, I'd like to thank you all for listening today. And until next time, be safe and remember, everybody, that if we all work together, we can accomplish anything.
[00:46:28] Speaker A: You have been listening to let's be diverse with Andrew Stout to stay up to date with future content.
[00:46:35] Speaker B: Hit.
