Communication and Leadership

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Opinions expressed in this episode are personal. They do not necessarily reflect the views of this streaming platform. [00:00:09] Speaker B: Good day, everyone, and welcome to another edition of let's be diverse. I am your host, Andrew Stout. This episode is dedicated to all my loved ones who supported me through this journey. Communication and leadership is very key. If we don't have good communication, leadership falls off, then that trust and respect factor falls off as well. Today we're going to be talking about communication and leadership, and I'm so happy to have as my guest today, Heather Redfern. Welcome to the show, Heather. I am super stoked of having you on here today. [00:00:47] Speaker A: Hi, Andrew. It's great to be here with you today. Thanks for the invitation. [00:00:51] Speaker B: You're very, very welcome. And it's so nice to. It's so nice to have on the podcast. I've had some great guests, but it's so nice to have somebody who I know personally and I've hung out with and had some great barbecues and fun times with. So it's great to have. This is probably the first time that I've had somebody that I know well from my personal life on the podcast, so it's pretty cool to agree. [00:01:20] Speaker A: I think it's really fun. We come from the same town. I know you have a big audience that reaches lots of people, you know, beyond Canada, but it's really fun to have maybe a little bit of a hometown flair going on with two people who know what it's like growing up in the area that we grew up in. [00:01:37] Speaker B: Absolutely. Absolutely. I'll start off with seeing or asking you, how are things? What's new with you? What's going on? What's happening in your world? Give us the deets. [00:01:47] Speaker A: Awesome. Well, you know what? I thought maybe I would also run through a bit of, uh, you know, my journey in internal communications to bring us to that question. So, um, as you know, I've been working in communication for probably more than 20 years. I started more than 20 years ago, and that's when I took on a position that at the time was a junior role. And I thought, you know, what, for me to do well, I really need to get an educational background in, in this area. So back when remote learning was brand new, I started doing a certificate in pr that was a compliment to my ba that I already had. My first born was in diapers. I was doing it at night, and I probably finished it by the time after my second born came along. And I really benefited from some great mentors in my profession, so that helped me out and then fast forward many years later, 2016. After I worked in the corporate setting for years, I really took a step back and I said, you know what? I want to dial back this busyness in my life. You know, you know what the soccer culture is like around Montreal. My daughter played inner city soccer. I followed her all over the place, but I had never once attended one of her high school games. And I thought, gosh, the cool factor when you're on the high school soccer team. And I never saw her play. So I took some time for myself when I did things like, you know, just read, spent time with her, and, you know, I really resourced myself, and I made the decision I was going to jump into being a solo printer, doing my own thing, being a consultant. So today, if you say, okay, what are you doing? Today I'm really, I'm working with my clients, but I'm investing in my own business in a way that I didn't have time before because my clients were my first priority. They remain my first priority, but having a bit more time now, I'm really doing things like ramping up my presence on LinkedIn, thinking about what my values are as an organization, what my purpose is. So that's really what's been keeping me busy nowadays. [00:04:22] Speaker B: I love what all, everything you're saying there, and I love how you, you figured stuff out as far as your daughter and your life and what you're looking for. You know, I'm a huge believer in passion, and I can hear the passion in your voice talking about that stuff. It is, and it's super inspiring when you hear that from somebody talking about what they love and what they enjoy, and it just tells me that things are going really super well for you when you're in, and that, and I admire that, and I love to hear that. [00:04:51] Speaker A: Thanks. You know, I can tell you that when I made that decision to step away from my corporate career, it was a really big thing for me. I loved what I was doing. I enjoyed the people that I worked with. That's really key for me. Even now with clients, I want to work with people that it's going to be a positive experience, that we're going to. It's going to be a partnership. So it wasn't. It was a huge deal for me. In fact, my previous employer became my first client. So that told me I was doing things right. Things came to an end in a really good way and just set me on the road for the next. So that was, you know, even though it was a hard decision, it was it was a good part of my journey. [00:05:41] Speaker B: That's awesome. That's awesome. Well, I'm happy to hear that things are going super well for you. We're going to get into the meat and bones of stuff as far as our topic today. But before we begin, I always have a fun question to ask my guests to get things going. It's a thought provoking question. Are you ready for yours? [00:06:01] Speaker A: Yeah, I think I am. Let's go. [00:06:04] Speaker B: So my question for you is, if animals could talk, which one do you think would be the rudest? [00:06:11] Speaker A: The raccoon. I tell you, you know, we have a little visitor around our property that likes to wake me up at 04:00 in the morning. So, you know, their belly comes first. And if I've put out garbage a day before the garbage pickup, you know, just waiting for the garbage to be picked up, we eat well, but that neighborhood raccoon eats even better. [00:06:40] Speaker B: And it's funny that you mentioned, you know, that's a great answer, and I definitely would agree with you on that. And I think what, the thing about raccoons amazes me is that there's a lot of animals that if you were to turn on the light or stir whatever, you know, a lot of animals would probably just take off. Raccoon is one of those animals that will nothing budge. They will be like, listen, this is what I'm doing. You're not going to scare me. I'm going to get what I want, and I don't care what you're doing. So. I love that answer. [00:07:12] Speaker A: Yeah, you're right. We had a, I tried to stare him down and he did not back off. And I wasn't going outside at 04:00 in the morning. [00:07:20] Speaker B: So, no, nor would I. I don't think I would have done that before either. So I appreciate your answer. Thanks for having fun with me. So I know that you kind of went in a little, few minutes before talking about your career. What I'd like to hear from you is to tell us a little about you personally, a little bit of your story. And you kind of said your why about your daughter. But I want to learn a little bit more about your why. [00:07:50] Speaker A: Perfect. And you know what? I think as great as some of the work I've done recently, where I've really spent time with my own values and what's important to me within my business and within my whole life, really ties. What's exciting to me is it ties very strongly to my why. So having been in the corporate chair for a lot of years, and knowing what it can be like as a one person team dedicated to internal communications or having seen mostly human resources. So HR teams that are called upon to do huge amounts of work, you know, just as the pandemic, as an example, people were working around the clock. You know, they're human beings, too. They're learning about, you know, what type of advice they should be giving employees. It was, it was and it remains huge. So my why is having sat, like I said, having sat on the other side, having been in that chair, having needed outside of support, not knowing there were people like me that could come in, step in, take on a mandate, help out, provide strategic advice, provide tactical support, write off a news article for someone. That's my why I want to be able to help people be able to stay in those roles longer, because they're not overwhelmed with work and feel like, you know what? I'm going to step aside because this is just too much. So that's where my why comes in. I'm going to step in, I'm going to partner with my clients, and you know what? There's no drama. When it's time for me to step out, I step out. And it's, it's, it's part of our agreement, and it's absolutely fine. So, you know, that's where I, like I said, that's where I excel. I come in, I provide strategic advice. I help companies engage their employees through communication, whether it be helping out with key messages, Q and A's, I really want to connect the messages to the client's business objectives. So that's, you know what, it's been more than 20 years. I'm still excited about it. It still drives me. I still feel really good to be there and helps people out. And that's what sort of, that's what keeps me going. [00:10:27] Speaker B: Yeah, I love when you said engaging teams. So I think that communication, I always say that leadership and communication is super important. It goes hand in hand. And I'm glad that we're gonna talk about this today because I feel like there's certain things that we can tell our teams and there's certain things that we can't. But there's a way. So if there's situations where there's confidential information that you can't tell your team, I think there's always certain things that you can say and a certain way that you can say it. In other words, you know, here's, here's what I can tell you, and then you go on to tell them what you can see you know, and if they ask questions, say, I can't really answer that, or I can't talk. We can't talk about that at this time. And I, you know, as long as you're engaging with your employees, I think they will respect your answer is, if you're, you know, other to, you know, if you're gonna be someone who's going to be hidden behind closed doors and always having people in your office and, and not, you know, it almost looks like there's stuff going on, but you can't tell them what's going on. I think that people kind of, our employees feel a little bit uneasy. So I love that you, you engage, and then I love when you said human beings, like, we're all human beings, so we have to understand that. We all have, you know, wear feelings, we're vulnerable, and we have to understand that. And as soon as that we can understand that, the better I think it's gonna be for everybody. [00:11:59] Speaker A: I totally agree with you. I think that when you build a culture of strong communication that builds trust with people, and they would understand that right now we're working on this. We're going to come back to you with more information as soon as we have it. I think when you have a communications person that's dedicated to that type of work, they're there sort of saying, okay, we're getting this feedback. Employees need to know more. Then you work with the leadership to say, okay, what's the context? Let's help them understand what's going on as much as we can. And then, you know, you start moving these messages, and then with that trust built, people will say, you know what? I believe they're going to come to us with more information as soon as they have it. Because you know what? They did it then. They did it the other time. They did it the other time. So you're building this trust. They know that you're going to come back to them as soon as you can. And for sure, for myself, I want to be involved in those type of organizations. [00:13:08] Speaker B: Yep. You know, absolutely. So that's a perfect tie in, a perfect segue to get our conversation going. So my, what I want to know from you is, how does communication tie into being an effective leader? [00:13:24] Speaker A: You know, to me, strong communication is at the heart of being a good leader. Being an effective leader. Typically, leaders, they see the big picture, right? They have all of the information. They're usually working with the executives. They understand where the business is going, what it's trying to achieve. So it's really their role help communicate a compelling vision to their employees, make it exciting. Why do I want to be a part of this organizing organization? Oh, it's because we're trying to do this. You know, it's. This is, this is what our purpose is. This is what we're trying to achieve. And, you know, we need you to help us make it happen. So, you know, the short answer to your question is, I think it's. It's. It's huge. You know, knowing when to communicate, maybe it's actually not the right time. You know, your employees are working on this huge project. They have a deliverable and, you know, a few days, that's all they can think about. Don't muddy the waters with more at that time. Maybe it's just not the right time, but, you know, use messages that are going to inspire your people. People want to be inspired and only want to go to work every day and feel like, wow, I'm going to. I'm going to contribute towards this. So I think it's a skill, and I think it's something that can be developed over years. You don't necessarily, I don't believe you're either a good or bad communicator. I think you can continue to grow and learn as long as you're open to feedback. [00:15:02] Speaker B: So much stuff I want to pack in there. First off, I love that. When you said leaders are the heart of every organization, I just love that. And I feel a lot of leaders don't understand that. For whatever reason, whether it's their experience or whether they are put into that situation where they maybe shouldn't be, I'm not sure, but there's many ways that we could look at it. But I definitely feel like they are the heart and the meat and the bones of an organization. I love when you said, you talked about saying to employees that, you know, we need your help to make this happen, I think that's a huge communication aspect or a way of talking to your employees. And you mentioned inspiring them. That is a great way to inspire your team and your employees, because, I mean, Heather, who doesn't want to feel needed and wanted, like, that is a great way to make someone feel. Someone said that to me. Exactly. That I need Andrew, I need you to help make this happen. I'm gonna run through a brick wall. Wall at that point when I hear that, because I'm like, wow, like, okay, they need me. Well, yeah, I gotta do whatever I can to make this happen. [00:16:25] Speaker A: For sure. Yeah, I have the same type of personality. I'm smiling on my side as I hear you say, run through a wall, because, you know, I've told some leaders that I've worked with, I'll go to war for you because I believe in them. So, you know, if you. If, you know, you can communicate in such a way that you can have people and it's genuine, I don't want to make it sound like it's under false pretenses, because that's just not my personality. But, you know, when you connect with somebody because they're able to communicate to you why it's important, you know, how you think they have part of the answer. This is the answer that I see. But what do you see? I think it's. It's a winning formula. [00:17:11] Speaker B: Yeah, I definitely agree with you there. You know, your compelling vision, too. Like, it's, you know, for the organization and for the team and the direction that you want it to go in. And if it's compelling, like you said before, if it's real and authentic, then people are gonna. And it's delivered properly, then people are gonna buy it. If it's a just said, then people can kind of read the lines of that for sure. So I agree with you there. [00:17:42] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's great, Andrew, because I like when you said that, when you say just when it's said, because often we think about communication with the words, you know, what people say. But a huge part of it is you got to follow up. You got to walk the talk. You know, it can't just be words. It has to be. It has to come through the communication, through your actions. [00:18:04] Speaker B: Right, right. So, I know. I think we kind of talked a little bit, but I want to kind of go delve in this deeper. What leadership style do you think is best for communication? [00:18:14] Speaker A: Well, you know, having worked on an HR team, leadership and styles of leadership is something that I had the opportunity to become quite acquainted with. So there's different leadership styles. And I think, not to sound wishy washy, but I think it depends what we're communicating. That's my answer. I think what's best is depending on the subject that you're communicating. And the best leaders. The best leaders, they know how to adapt their style to the situation they're facing. So let me ask you, Andrew, if we are in a building and it's on fire, you might want me to use a style of leadership that's typically not recommended, which is called, you know, directive. You know, I'm not going to ask you to participate in, hey, Andrew, do you think we should get out of the building. I'm going to say we need to get out of the building now. There's an exit there. It's the closest one. We're going that way. Right. So I'm exaggerating to make a point that in that case, I would say we would want to use that type of style. Now, typically, I wouldn't recommend that type of style, but, you know, we're talking about vision. Well, visionary leadership style. What's the long term goals? Where are we going? What's the context we're in? How can you contribute? You know, that is one, to me, one of the. That's what a style that would motivate me highly. Coaching another style. You know, again, we. I'm not the sports person that you are, but coaching, hey, that's. This is, hey, Andrew, we think you should do this. We want to see you. You're great on the ice. We want to see you excel in this. We want even more from you in that area. So to me, that's, again, another style. That's great coaching. And, you know, there's also the style of participative, which means, hey, you've got a fair amount of experience. We're facing this issue. I'd like to hear what you have to say on this. What can you contribute here? So, again, I think there's lots of different styles. If you're going to ask me my favorite, I love visionary. I like to know where we're going. I feel like I have stuff to contribute. Tell me what the big picture is, and I'm going to come in and help you make that happen, achieve that vision. So that's, you know, not maybe a really cut and dry answer, but that's how I see it. [00:21:00] Speaker B: I love everything that you packed in there, Heather. I love that you said it depends on the situation and communication when communicating. I definitely feel like when different situations need different types, I always say in episodes of this podcast, I talk about listening with to give feedback and then the ability to listen what I call with pause. So basically you are listening to them, but you're not, and there's no intention of giving them any feedback. You're just letting them talk and letting them give their thoughts and opinions there. The other option is we're, you know, giving feedback and you, you know, is, you know, listening, and then you're kind of giving your feedback, you know? And as far as tone, I think tone is super important. I would say also, too, it's not the words necessarily, it's the tone that you're giving it in. So you, you talked about, you know, there's a fire we need to get out. I mean, there could be a, you know, a tone in there, too, where people might say, even orders, like a, you know, an emergency. There could be some people in a certain situations who could take that a little bit like, oh, well, they're a little bit mean and harsh with me, you know, type thing, so. But it is a director being director saying, look, this is something. This is, we got to do it, and this is how it's got to be done. So I love that. And I love when you said, what's the long term goals? I love that because that just talks about the direction that we're going in and what we feel. We, what we feel is important, and what we feel is not important. And what we feel is that we have to work things that we have to work on and, you know, and learning and what learning that we need to do, what training do we have to get in order to get to that direction? So I love when you said that it, again, that you, it depends on what we're communicating or what we're talking about. [00:23:13] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that, you know, you're talking to me. What's resonating, what you're sharing back is, you know, a vision. And this is what we need to do because, you know, things don't always go perfectly in organizations. It's great when they do, but, you know, problems happen. You know, you can be working for an organization that's very customer centric, and suddenly there's been a shift in how your customers see you, and, you know, how can you communicate with your teams to try to bring that back? Well, you know, it's that open. Hey, you know, right now we're in, we're in a period of time where our customers are telling us this. So how do you like, this is how we, we know the long term vision is for them to be delighted or for them to love our services or our products. You know, how are we going to make this happen and bring people in so they're a part of that success. [00:24:15] Speaker B: Mm hmm. What would you say are the qualities of a leader who excels in communication? [00:24:24] Speaker A: For me, I think this is a great question, and I think it can be a long, long list, and knowing that not everybody can be everything. To me, what's at the heart of it is somebody, you kind of have to like it. You know, you kind of, and you kind of can't be afraid to try new things, which isn't always easy, because a lot of us, we want to do well, and so we can shy away at trying new things. But to me, the same old thing isn't working anymore in 2024 and beyond, right. You know, those, those old memos, they're not necessarily working. So you have to, you have to enjoy it. You have to be, you know, open to trying new things. I think being kind of humble helps, which, you know, sometimes isn't easy for some of our leaders to be humble. I say that with affection, but, you know, I think we were past the era of people talk to their teams and we comply. You know, we want to understand. So, you know, that means they might have to adjust. They have to be able to take feedback. Take feedback. Well, you know, to me, if you're a leader who's just surrounded with people that give you a thumbs up and give you the old attaboy or, you know, pat on the back, you might not be, you might not have the right people around you. You need people, and you need to be the type of person that makes others feel safe to say, you know what, when you were saying this, like, I don't really think that was cool, and this is why, and, you know, you learn, right? I worked with a leader in the past who used to say, feedback is a gift. So instead of making that same mistake over and over, if somebody has the courageous and the care, because to me, it's a caring thing to do, to tell somebody, to give somebody constructive feedback, you know, that's important. You have to be able to listen to people. It's a two way street here. So sorry, long answer. There's so many things for me, so many qualities that I think are important. [00:26:57] Speaker B: I love your answer. And it was not long winded at all. I thought it was some very good things there. The thing that I like that you said is, I talked about this earlier in the podcast here, or you said, you have to like it. I feel like passion is super important, and if you don't have passion for what you're doing, why are we doing it? Like, just, you know, you gotta have something that inspires you and pushes you and makes you, you know, there's gotta be a reason why you gotta get out of bed in the morning and, and do what you like to do. If you don't enjoy it, then you're not gonna, you want to get, you don't want to get up. And it's also going to keep you from. You've mentioned trying, being afraid to try new things. I think if we're, if we're passionate, then we're willing to try new things. Not everything is going to work. I'm. I'm someone who comes up with some crazy ideas and I know that not all of them are going to work, but I'm. I'm not afraid to try them. If they try, I try them. If they work, they great don't work. That is okay. [00:28:03] Speaker A: So. [00:28:04] Speaker B: Love when you said that. I think when we talk about communication, I think it's important that we allow our teams to be innovative and creative as a leader. When we're communicating with our team, it's important that we can we, that we counsel them and not cancel their ideas because if we do that, then we're just pushing them away. And like I said, we're not allowing them to be the best form of themselves. [00:28:38] Speaker A: Yeah, I feel like I don't have much to say back to you on that one because I just agree with what you're saying. You know, I think, you know, I goes back to some of those styles we were talking about coaching people when you feel that they need coaching, getting out of their way, when you need to get out of their way so they can make things happen. You know, let's not, like, take the wind out of people's sails, you know what I mean? And especially, you know what, everything is moving just so fast today, you know? So if people are getting speed and there's trust, then let them go. Let them make it happen. [00:29:24] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. What do you think the future looks like for leaders in communication? [00:29:31] Speaker A: You know, I wish I had a crystal ball because, you know, when we started talking, I was saying how I started over 20 years ago. It's amazing the change that we've been seeing over time, and I don't think that's going to slow down. So I think what the future looks like, I think we're going to continue to have change, continue to have technology evolution. I think people who will do well are those who can open to being lifelong learners, who are not going to get too afraid of technology and just embrace it and learn what it can do for them. You know, you think over the past few years how we all heightened our knowledge and abilities with things like teams or Zoom or, you know, even how we're connecting now. You and I, Andrew, we really brought up our skills in a short amount of time. Now we have things like AI hitting us and people are just trying to understand how all of that works. I think that, you know, in the future, people might look to things like AI to say, how can that lighten my workload? So there's that change, ongoing technology evolution. I think also because of that, our worlds are getting smaller. You know, there's remote working, the speed of communication. I think leaders are going to need to continue to work on their own abilities and knowledge of inclusion, how to make people feel comfortable and value all of the differences that we share and what people bring to the table. And one other element that I think it's back to the future, but it's storytelling, and you do that very well. I think that people still like stories. They just might like shorter stories. They just might like stories with more pictures. They might like stories that are going to, you know, be a 32nd reel or TikTok or you name it. So I think that that's kind of fun because it's something that's been around so long. We're talking about the future, but I think that it's something that's going to remain. And for me, as a communicator, I couldn't be more happy about it because it's something that taps into what I'm passionate about. So just to recap, change, ongoing technology evolution, inclusion in the workplace, and storytelling is my answer. [00:32:24] Speaker B: I love that you said storytelling, because a few days before taping this, and we talked about storytelling. And I am huge, and I might sound biased here, but I am huge on storytelling. I think storytelling is huge right now. You know, people don't want to hear, you know, people want to hear about other people. They don't want to hear about, you know, that you made a hundred thousand dollars in a month. They don't want to hear about, you know, that you're going to make, you know, $10 million in a year. They don't want to hear about that stuff. They want to hear about the, you know, the grassroots stories. You know, they want to learn about Heather. How did you know, where did she start? Where did she grow up? How did she, you know, where did she start her business? What inspires her? What pushes her? What drives her every day? What makes her get up and go to work? Why does she like to help people? These are the things that people want to hear, and that is communicating and storytelling. And if you can do that and if you can be good at that, you're gonna be. I think the future is gonna be great for you. [00:33:33] Speaker A: You know, I do. I do think it's a mixture. So I agree with most of what you said. I do think that people want to know maybe that the company is making money. So that they feel secure in their job and that they feel like they're working for a winning organization, often being successful financially as a part of winning along with, you know, doing great things for society and making an impact. But, yes, absolutely. I can tell you that I was, I was working for an organization, this was probably about a year ago, and there was a series of stories about one of their employees who was an ultra runner running through the Alps. He was doing like 50 day for, I don't know, nine days straight in the alps. So not just running like down the pavement, going up and down hills. I think those stories have the most engagement from employees during a certain time period than we had more than anything else. So, yes, I do agree. I think people want to connect with good stories. [00:34:43] Speaker B: Absolutely. What is your favorite story from your career, Heather? [00:34:50] Speaker A: You know, different things come to mind. So, you know, I could think about some of my past accomplishments. I always, you hear my voice going down because it almost makes me feel a bit boastful. But, you know, I'm proud of some of the things that I've done in my career. At one point, I started with an organization who had a fairly low participation rate in their survey. And through a lot of teamwork and communication work, we more than doubled that participation rate within so many years, you know, so that's a nice story, or it's a nice accomplishment. You know, I've also done missteps, Andrew. I've done missteps that, you know, that marked my career, that, you know, you know, when you, you make a mistake and you, you don't forget it and you, you find ways to improve it. So I once accidentally published a wrong phone number. And any fellow communicators listening to this right now, you're going to know what it's like when you, you hit send and you go, oh, my goodness. Only to find out that phone number took people to quite a suggestive line. I never lived that down. And I won't publish any phone number without calling it first to make sure it's the right one now. But really, my favorite story, my favorite story is happening now. My favorite story is where my career is at now. Learning to grow, learning to drive things forward, try new things. You know, it's quite something working for yourself. So you try new things, you take risks, you sort of let the chips fall where they may learn from things. You know, I've been posting stuff on LinkedIn. You're almost nervous. How are people going to react to this? Are they going gonna like it? Are they not well, if they don't, okay, this is me. So, you know, I think the answer is my stories now. I think I'm getting. Just getting started. Andrew, you know, I'm pretty happy with where things are now. It's not perfect, but I'm learning to let go of those old perfectionist issues that I have and just make things happen, and let's see where things go. [00:37:22] Speaker B: Hmm. You know, you mentioned before, you talked about qualities of a leader in communication. You just talked. You mentioned what you. And I asked you about your favorite story, and you said, I don't want to be boastful. That's a quality of a leader right there that you demonstrated. And I always thought of you as a leader, and that is a leader to a t, because here you are talking about your accomplishments and youre. You're. You don't want. You don't feel like you want to boast about them. You want to. You don't want to talk about them. You're being humble, and you have done a lot of great things in your career. And, you know, I feel, and I always feel you should be proud of anything that you accomplished. So I love that you said that. And. And I love when you talk about, you know, to grow and to drive this thing forward and to take risks. I feel like you're creating your own narrative in your life, and that is super important and super inspiring to anybody who is trying to start their own thing. So thank you for that. [00:38:35] Speaker A: I appreciate that. I think at the beginning of our talk, I mentioned taking this decision at the end of 2016. In my professional life, I'm a planner. You plan communication initiatives. You plan when you're going to communicate. You plan what the messages are going to be. You equip your managers with Q and A's of how they can, you know, so that everybody's on the same page. I didn't. I didn't plan this out. That was really unlike me. And I'm learning that, yes, a plan is helpful, but you can deviate from that plan when you have your own business and you try to make things happen. So, you know, it's funny because I deviate from my plan as a solopreneur, but I prefer people that are following my communication plan stick to them. So I'm a paradox. What can I say? [00:39:32] Speaker B: Absolutely. You adapted to everything that you've done, and that is. That's super, super important and super valuable, for sure. Not everybody can adopt. Not everybody has the skill to adopt. So it seems like you, you know, you're able to do that, which is, which is super cool. Any final thoughts today? [00:39:52] Speaker A: Final thoughts? You know, I. Nothing major. I think we've covered a lot of a, a lot of topics today. Hopefully this is helpful for your listeners. You know, it's, today we're talking, it's early July. I hope people just, you know, work hard but enjoy the summer. The time goes, especially in the Montreal area. You know what? Summer goes by in a blink of an eye. So let's all enjoy it and have some. Make some good memories. [00:40:25] Speaker B: Heather, I want to take the time to thank you for coming on today. This was, I agree with you, this was such a great conversation. It was very engaging and I enjoyed every single moment of it. I always thought you were a super inspirational person the first time that we met. And it's amazing to hear different people and different ways of their, of their life and to see you in this light is super cool. And I'm super impressed with you and I'm super thankful for you to, that you were able to come on today to have a chat with us. So thank you. [00:41:06] Speaker A: I really appreciate the opportunity. Thanks, Andrew. [00:41:09] Speaker B: You're very welcome. On behalf of myself and my guest Heather, I'd like to thank you all for listening today. Until next time, be safe and remember, everyone, that if we all work together, we can accomplish anything you have been listening to. [00:41:24] Speaker A: Let's be diverse with Andrew Stout. 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