Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Opinions expressed in this episode are personal. They do not necessarily reflect the views of this streaming platform.
[00:00:08] Speaker B: Good day, everyone, and welcome to another edition of let's Be Diverse podcast. I am your host, Andrew Stout. This episode is dedicated to all my loved ones who supported me through this journey. Those who have left us will always be in our hearts and will never be forgotten. Today I have an interesting topic. It's building relationships across borders. I am so honest, honored, thrilled and excited to have back as a returning guest to the podcast today, Megan Thudium. Megan, thank you so much for coming on today. I really appreciate you taking the time to chat with us again.
[00:00:40] Speaker A: Thank you, Andrew. I'm excited to be here.
[00:00:43] Speaker B: We're excited to have you here. Megan. I. I can't tell you how excited that we are. For those who don't know Megan, she is a returning guest. We had her on a while back and she was enjoyed by many people who listened to the podcast. And she's one of my favorite people in the world, so I'm so happy to have her on today. Megan, how are things going with you? What's going on? Give us the tea, the deets, give us it all. What's happening?
[00:01:07] Speaker A: What's happening with me? So I'm based over here in Berlin, Germany. So the weather is not great. So I'm trying to stay active. That's the thing I'm doing now. I am planning events. I'm planning coffee meetups and marketing events in Berlin to socialize and connect with people who have shared interest in what I'm doing and just build community. That's really what I've been focused on all day. I've been sending out email connections, trying to get people to talk with me and come to my upcoming events. So that's what's currently.
[00:01:39] Speaker B: Well, that is amazing. I love that you do that. Some people do it a lot. Some people do it a little bit. Some people kind of are shy and they don't want to do it. But for me, it's been fruitful as well. I love to meet, have conversations with people. I just had a great conversation with somebody this past week was scheduled for an hour and I think we went like an hour and a half. Like, it was so nice to have that conversation. And it was just one of those situations which I find myself often where I could probably talk to these. These people longer than what we do. But we know we have to adult and we have to do adult things. But this situation, like many, I could have probably talked to her for another two hours because it was just going so well. And so I sure we're going to have many, many conversations and that's what we want to do. And it's the magic of having conversations and building rapport with people.
[00:02:28] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:02:29] Speaker B: So I'm glad to hear that things are going well with you. Before we begin, Megan, I always have a fun, thought provoking question to ask my guest to get things going. And as you know, we've asked you one before. Are you ready for your new one today?
[00:02:44] Speaker A: I am ecstatic. Go for it.
[00:02:48] Speaker B: You sounded ecstatic there. I love it. So my question is, if you were in competition called the ultimate sandwich challenge, what sandwich would you make to win it all?
[00:03:00] Speaker A: I would make the absolute best peanut butter and jelly sandwich.
[00:03:04] Speaker B: Peanut butter and jelly. You know what? That's probably one of my favorite sandwiches.
[00:03:09] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:03:09] Speaker B: So I love that. I love that answer. I actually, it's funny that you say that. I love French toast and I do want to try it. I saw a recipe the other day off topic, where it was a peanut butter French toast where you basically make the peanut butter sandwich just like you would peanut butter sandwich. And you dip it in just like you would make French toast. You make French toast. I'm dying to try it. I love French toast. And I'm sure that this is going to be absolutely magical. So I'm looking forward to trying it.
[00:03:37] Speaker A: And I mean, peanut butter is so versatile. That's what I love telling the Europeans because I live here in Europe, is you could do anything with peanut butter. You know, you can put it on pancakes, bananas, apples, whatever marshmallows, chocolate. Peanut butter is. Yeah, it's the thing.
[00:03:53] Speaker B: Wonderful. And you probably would have a good chance of winning just with that. Just with that. Because, I mean, who doesn't. I don't even know anybody who doesn't like a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. I. I don't think I've read him. I don't think I've met anybody.
[00:04:03] Speaker A: What? I am obsessed with peanut butter and jelly. I am so obsessed. I bring Jif peanut butter. This is not an advertisement for Jif. I bring peanut butter all the way to Germany because we don't have peanut butter here. So I'm a sen.
[00:04:17] Speaker B: So you stock up when you have a chance.
[00:04:19] Speaker A: Yep.
Luggage.
[00:04:24] Speaker B: Well, listen, I love the fact that you had so much fun with me again on that question and I love your answer again. Peanut butter sandwiches are probably one of my favorite things. So I love that. Thanks so much for participating in that. For those who have not checked out your first episode with me or on let's be diverse. Why don't we start off with you telling us a little bit about yourself and I would like to know a little bit about your why.
[00:04:47] Speaker A: So I am a climate communicator, I'm a sustainable marketing activist and I'm the managing director of Content for Good and Co. That's actually changed since our last episode. So this is a new transition into my purpose driven career journey. But what I do in my day to day is I work with companies who are using their forces, how they exist in the world as a force for good. So they're dedicating their mission, their vision, whatever they're doing to doing better by people on the planet. And I help them with their marketing and their communication and where my purpose has come, my purpose as a marketer, why I show up every day and do what I do is I really want to see my industry transformed into a force for good. So along the lines of what my business does, I also want to see my industry stop being a industry that is promoting over consumption and pollution and negativity and pulling people, people apart on polarization, but bring people together over community building a better future, one that's clean, just and with breathable air. So that's why I show up every day at work. I love what I do.
[00:05:59] Speaker B: I love, I love all of that. Some of the things that kind of jump out at me is when you say you working for companies.
I use forces for good and I just love that because there's not a lot of companies that do that. Most companies are being formed. Of course we want to make money because we need to have the company run and we need to produce and we need to, to put food on our table. So we need to have to have that. But I think the good part, what I enjoy is that and I think what a lot of people are forgetting is it's so important to have good because the good spreads the wealth and it spreads amongst everybody around you. And what that does is it engages everybody to, to do and to stick around for long term. So I just love that. I really do. Really do. So Megan, let's get into this, the meat and bones of this. What are the benefits of building relationships across borders and what would you say some of the challenges are?
[00:06:58] Speaker A: I really like this question because just for a little bit of background, I'm originally from the United States and I now live in Germany. So I've been building an international multicultural marketing agency for six years now. And so every day I'm working With different cultures, different language, different worldviews.
All across Europe. Not so many in North Americans anymore, surprisingly. But I'm always in the midst of that. It's a challenge, something that I've definitely adapted to over the time that I've grown my business. I think one of the biggest takeaways from that experience is really kind of getting to the root ness of, like, what we are at our core. At the essence, we're human beings. And so if we're human beings, when you show up and you have, for example, worldview differences or multicultural or language barriers, just remember that you're all humans. And we're all humans. We have these basic needs. You know, we want to be heard, we want to be understood. We have forces, for example, in our work that are pushing us certain ways. We're trying to meet demands. So I think one of the biggest learnings that I have is remembering that we're all humans, we're all connected. There's always a central piece that brings us all together across cultures, languages, and barriers. And that empathy will always be one of the biggest soft skills that I've had to develop over these last six years. Because there are many times, for example, a German client will say something that challenges my understanding or my world view of the world, or I just don't quite understand because I come from a North American perspective and specifically a U.S. perspective. And we do business different, we think about it differently. We also build relationships differently. And I really have to sit back, you know, sit on my hands, take a deep breath, and I have to think, okay, what does that person feel? Why are they thinking in that way? So that comes from taking the time to be empathetic and building that understanding.
[00:09:01] Speaker B: Well, so much I want to pack in there. I love the empathy part and your soft skills. It's something that I think people have to. I think that we all working on. I feel like I'm an empathetic person as well, But I feel like you can continue to. To be more empathetic. I don't think you make it, or I don't think you're perfect at it. I think you can continue to. To work at things and ask questions and talk to people and find out more about people. And I think that's super important to do that. So I love that empathy part, and I love the fact that your experience coming from the US and living in Germany now and dealing with people in Germany and all across the world, in the people that you deal with and just their different ways of life and their Cult.
I've spoken a lot of times. My parents were of mixed race. As I've gotten older, I remember some of the experiences that I had and they weren't negative, but they were just different. But they didn't mean anything to me way back when because I wasn't thinking of that. As I've gotten older, I'm like, that was different and just kind of thinking of different situations and scenarios and that. And you're like, yeah, I did experience that. And when it was interesting of how that was handled and maybe I would have handled it a little bit differently now, today, in today's world, world, who knows, right? But so it's just a different, different way of, of thinking in my mind.
[00:10:22] Speaker A: Yep, it's definitely a growing process because if I look back and think of 21 year old Megan, who was living in Southern California, had just graduated from university. I was not empathetic and I was not patient. And so it's actually those built on life of experiences over the years that have really contributed to this, this mindset shift and also, I mean growing up in general, but also being exposed to these. And that's why I'm also a big advocate of travel and putting yourself in new situations, new groups of people. I think we get in our bubbles so easily the things that we feel comfortable. So pushing yourself outside your comfort zone is going to help build that empathy for sure.
[00:11:02] Speaker B: So let me ask you, Megan, what are the key elements of successful building or successfully building relationships across borders? Some of the experiences that you've seen and felt over the last six years?
[00:11:16] Speaker A: So I can speak from some of my experiences. I work with a lot of Germans, a lot of Eastern Europeans and a couple more Brits this year, which I would say Brits are a little bit closer to the North American perspective in our worldviews. Each one is different. And so each one I kind of had to adopt a different thought process. Again. I think the soft skills really helped me not only empathy and trying to understand where they're coming from, but also patience because there's also this. I also have a Japanese client at the moment that's a completely different, different experience and each one is different and taking the patients to also understand what they're asking through cultural and language barriers because I don't necessarily have that understanding. Like even with my Japanese culture, it's very different than I would say even from European culture in some ways. So another thing that's helped me there, besides the skill is finding the connections. Again, you know, I shared a little bit on just remembering the humanity of everything and who we are when we're in business. You know, my Japanese client, there is some more struggles there, but in the end, it's like, you know, it's like you smile and then they smile back. You know, they're kind to each other in the meeting. You know, you have these little moments of humanity, and it really connects things. And I think it really kind of bridges those. Those gaps that people worry about, especially when the cultures and the worldviews and the languages are so diverse in that way.
[00:12:46] Speaker B: And I imagine, too, Megan, through my experience, the listening skills, as far as myself, I'm continuously and constantly working on my listening skills to be a better listener. And sometimes we have that temptation to. To jump in when someone is talking about something and jump in and either give her thought or. Or answer when they're kind of in their thought or thinking of something. You're. You're kind of like you're answering for them. And I'm kind of trying to get away from that. But when you're doing that for so many years, it's hard to. To do that and to learn how to not do that. So I imagine that your listening skills with these different people in different countries is super important, because if you're not listening, then you're not understanding, and if you're not understanding, then you're not getting the work out properly or how they would like it to be or how they want it to be. And then that could be a negative impact on you and your relationship.
[00:13:44] Speaker A: I also think this is a great point because I also identify with what you say, because we also come, I think, from the same cultural background. We're coming from this North American market. Right. And I don't know. I'm not an expert on behavioral understanding, but I think in our North American market, we like to jump to conclusions because we like to progress forward. You know, this. This is kind of how we show that we have it together and we're connecting. And we have to understand in a lot of cultures, even in Europe, and I've come to understand is jumping to assumptions and making those assumptions in that process can have a very negative backlash, because then that's when you start having miscommunication. Something said that not. That's not right. I mean, there's the business aspect of it that, you know, the projects don't get finished. For example, what about the human aspect of people's feelings are hurt, et cetera. So that's another thing I really learned from all these multicultural business Relationships is.
Yeah. Not assuming something if I didn't understand something, you know, if it's the language barrier, culture asking for verification.
And I think the hardest thing, especially as a native English speaker too, is not worrying that I'm being a nuisance about it. Because, you know, like, if you're amongst your native speakers asking for clarification all the time, it's kind of like, oh, you're making me feel stupid. Almost like, oh, you know, why didn't you understand me right away?
[00:15:07] Speaker B: Right.
[00:15:09] Speaker A: That's not necessarily true when you're working with people of different language barriers and English isn't their first barrier. So asking for that verification and that deeper understanding is actually, I think, very helpful to them and they appreciate it.
[00:15:23] Speaker B: What do you think building relationships across borders will look like in the future?
[00:15:27] Speaker A: That's a great question. I think it'll become more complex and more fast paced.
I mean, we're already a super connected society. I mean, I can jump on this video call with you and you're on the other side of the world. I mean, I think that's, that's amazing how that's just transformed, especially after the pandemic and how our interconnected, like we built this whole new level of skill sets of that interconnectivity. I think as we go forward and we're already struggling with it, it's going to be how do we adopt these human pieces that you get from going to conferences or being in person or anything like that? How do we adopt those on a ver. Virtual call, for example, and these digital multicultural experiences, cultural teams that we're growing across borders. I think that's going to continue to be. It's already a problem. I think it'll continue to be especially as we grow larger and larger in this dynamic and other cultures, because we kind of have to remember. Don't know if I should politically say this is correct, but my assumption is right now how the world is kind of the Western world does business for itself. So, you know, we're kind of all connected. But think about in the future when hopefully these societies in Africa, South America, Latin America start building up, which we want them to be part of the future altogether that we're building. That's new. That's new. Different people, completely different ideas of worldviews and languages and things that we have to adopt that might not have our Western perspective. So that I think is the next challenge is how do we bring those people into the conversation so that if they feel heard and they feel needed and that they know that they're contributing to the business context.
[00:17:05] Speaker B: So I'll give you an example of exactly what you're saying. I was talking to a meet and greet person during the conversation. She was telling me that at the end, I had asked her, you know, you know, what are you doing? It was a Friday. I said, what are you doing over the weekend? And she said, oh, we're looking for new furniture. We want to replace the furniture in our living room, so we're going to go out and do that and maybe some furniture for outside.
So I said, oh, that sounds like fun. And she's kind of teasing, like, yes, something that I want to do. But of course, husband. She's like, he's not really excited to be going to do that, right? So. So I said, it is what it is, and I'm sure it'll get done. And I'm sure at the end, once it's out there and placed and he actually sits on it, he'll be happy. So. So that was a Friday.
And then we spoke again. We were scheduled to meet, like, on a when? On the following Wednesday. And the first thing I asked her was how to do furniture shopping go. And she was, like, puzzled or, like, paused for, like, five seconds. And she's like, andrew. She said, that is simply amazing. She says, how did you remember that I was going out furniture shopping? Like, you made it seem like it was so important to you. So I said, well, you're a connection to me of mine. We're growing in our friendship as friends. Obviously, you're. You're interested in what the others are doing, and if it's important to you, then it's important to me. So of course I'm gonna ask. She's like, oh, my God. She's like, I don't think I've ever had anybody ever asked me how my furniture shopping went or how if I was going to buy clothes, how the clothes shopping go, or anything like that, or how was my weekend with the kids or whatever. So when you're talking about adopting the human pieces, I think that's adopting a human piece of being empathetic and understanding and getting to know people on a personal level and just that one little thing. We've spoken several other times since then, and she always mentions that each conversation. It's like, I still can't believe that you asked me that. You're so kind and considerate, but I wasn't trying to be extra. That's just how I am. And that's how I. Because I feel it's Important.
[00:19:13] Speaker A: But I think it's a really great point because I also think it's what people are craving at the moment. They're craving this level of authenticity and like realness from their connections. And that goes into business connections. Because I think like how I was taught in business school specifically, everything is transactional and everything is kind of gray and black. But that's not how business is. Business is with human beings. And for us to operate and do well in business and to build whatever we're trying to build, we have to create good relationships. Right? Part of that process is doing what you just said, Andrew. I've also been practicing it and it's actually a tough thing because you have to. For me, I wasn't taught that way in business. I wasn't taught that how you conduct, for example, business or meetings or anything. I have to train my brain to remember these little things right from that person.
And so when I meet with them again, I too ask, oh, I heard that, you know, this was happening. How is that going now? Or I heard you just went on holiday to X, Y and Z. You know, how is the sunshine there? What's one thing that you did, you know, really kind of pulling out this experience? It's practice. It's not something that naturally comes to me. But I've learned that is extremely important in building those deeper relationships.
[00:20:27] Speaker B: It super is. And for you and for all the listeners, if you are working at an organization and your leader comes to see you on a Monday and says, hey, you told me on Friday that your son Johnny has had a baseball game, a big playoff game on, on Saturday morning. How did that game go? I don't know anybody in this universe that would not go, oh my God, he actually cared or she cared so much to ask how my kids baseball game went. Like it's a minor little thing, but oh my God, it'll mean the world to somebody that they actually cared. I'm not asking it. As you're walking away, standing there asking about it and then going on, okay, nice to hear, we'll talk later. But just showing some care and compassion. It goes miles and miles.
[00:21:14] Speaker A: Yep, absolutely.
[00:21:16] Speaker B: So how do you think diversity and cross border relationships go hand in hand? How do you think they think?
[00:21:22] Speaker A: So I think diversity and inclusion in general is a really important topic that we need to be focusing on right now, especially at the current climate of what's going on in the business world. Because when you have more diverse and inclusive teams, you bring more original ways of thought, you bring more creativity, you bring more Connection and you're able from let's say a business and sales perspective, reach your customers in a more authentic way, which grows profit, which is a lot of the goals of many companies. So I think there's without a doubt that inclusion and diversity is an important topic that we need to continue cultivating and figuring out how to do it across borders. I think when it comes to leadership and understanding diversity and inclusion, let's say from like my perspective as a, as a agency owner sitting in another culture, another, in another country than my, my home country is how can I continue? How do I view this subject too? Because now it's changed. Different location, different worldview, different society. So how do I view these topics now from my world and how can I continue cultivating them within my community? So those are just some of the things that I'm thinking about at the moment.
[00:22:36] Speaker B: I, I fully agree with you and you mentioned in your, in my first question I asked you about your why. And I think when we're, we're dealing in this factor as far as diversity and cross border relationships, we're trying to get to that common goal and our why. So by having these conversations, finding out the different cultures or how they look at things, you know, it might be different. Why do you look at it that way? Instead of assuming all people think like this or all like that, finding a little bit more of why, instead of saying that's how they think, why do they think like that? What is their reasoning? Did they grow up in that type of way of life and that's just all they know? Right. So you mentioned before, you're saying that in business school you weren't taught how to, to build relationships or you didn't know that. And, and now you're doing it well because now you find it, you, you're realizing that it's important.
And more and more people that I talk to are realizing that it is super important, important to do that. Whether they decide to do it or not, that's another story. But they're definitely understanding fully the importance of it and why they should do it. And you know, you're, we're wanting to foster innovation and what a great way to foster innovation then to do that.
[00:23:47] Speaker A: Yeah, I think this is a good point. I mean I've already touched a little bit on like let's say the, the financial benefit of doing these things right and reaching markets. But let's just think also about the sustainability perspective at the, and longevity. Because if you're truly able to connect to people on a level where they understand and you develop that long term authentic relationship. They're also reoccurring customers. That's, that's gold. From a sales perspective. You have less turnover, you're, you're working with people on an ongoing base and they're reoccurring revenue. So that I also think is the shift that we need to see from a leadership perspective and encouraging our businesses to think in this more growth in that perspective. And I think that's rooted in partly in everything that we're talking about today.
[00:24:34] Speaker B: In closing, Megan, what's one takeaway do you want our audience to get from this episode?
[00:24:38] Speaker A: I think one of the key things that I would want people to take away, especially in international business relationships, if they're working with people across borders, is to go into every one of those interactions and relationships with interactions with a open mind and an open heart. Take the biases, take the negativity out of your head. Go and think of them as a human being, as someone just like you, but just on the other side of the world, different language. They also have kids, they also eat food, they also care about things. So remove those things and approach them with love and understanding. And I think that's, that's the way that business needs to move forward.
[00:25:17] Speaker B: I couldn't said it any better. Love is a word. That word is ever changing. Not because it's not not meaning anything less, but it's just meaning a little bit different. We talked about empathy before. When you show that empathy, you show that compassion for somebody gets it. It could go miles and miles and people remember that and people remember that about people as well. And that's why they continue to go, to go back, back and forth with people or connect with them or continue to, to reach out to them because of that care and compassion that the other person has.
[00:25:47] Speaker A: But that's also the world that I want to live in. And I think it's the last point I was that's the world that I want to live in. So that's the world I want to live in. That's what I'm going to give out into the world in hopes that I will receive it back. Just that saying that you learn as a kid, you know, do to others as you want them to do to you. I think it's the same perspective and we just need to translate that into the adult business world.
[00:26:09] Speaker B: My call to action here is I would love everybody that's listening like share Follow this and every other episode. I think that this particular episode was very heartfelt, centered and compassionate and empathetic in any, in every particular way. Megan, I want to take the time to thank you for coming on again. I teased you before we started taping and telling you what a remarkable individual you are, but you actually are a remarkable individual. You're so kind hearted and so incredibly gifted at what you do. And I am super honored to have connected with you way, way back and I'm super happy and grateful to continue to stay connected with you. We do reach out, we do talk. How's everything going? Nice to hear from you. You've done the same thing. You've reached out. Hey Andrew, just want to reach out, see how you're doing. That's the power of connection and that is a power of friendship and collaboration. So I just love that you that you are part of of my network and I'm so grateful to you as an individual and I'm so grateful to have you part of my community and I want to continue to have you part of your community. Stay doing, continue to doing the great things that you're doing.
[00:27:26] Speaker A: Thank you, Andrew. I feel the love. Thank you so much.
[00:27:29] Speaker B: You're very, very welcome. On behalf of myself and my guest Megan, I would like to thank you all for listening today and until next time, be safe and remember everyone that if we all work together, we can accomplish anything you have been listening to.
[00:27:45] Speaker A: Let's be diverse with Andrew Stout to stay up to date with future content. Hit Subscribe.
