Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Opinions expressed in this episode are personal. They do not necessarily reflect the views of this streaming platform.
[00:00:10] Speaker B: Good day, everyone, and welcome to another edition of let's be diverse. I am your host, Andrew Stout. This episode is dedicated to all my loved ones who supported me through this journey.
Recruitment is something that varies, and I find as I look up and read about stuff, I find that recruitment has become such a niche profession and skill recruitment or gone are the days where you work for a company and there are recruiters that work for that company and they try to recruit for different departments. Those companies are still around or those department is still around, but there are niche recruiters who take care of different types of fields and focus on those fields. So I wanted to focus on that today, and that's what we're doing. So again, our topic is niche recruitment and our guest today is Marissa Campbell. Marissa is a headhunter who specializes in placing engineers or those with electrical, mechanical, or chemical engineering background. She is always active on LinkedIn, working with clients across Canada. Marissa started her business define HR, Inc. Just over four and a half years ago. She's probably one of the nicest individuals that you could ever come across. I was so fortunate to, to meet her, and here she is today. I did a little bit of coaxing to get her on as a guest, and we finally got her on today. Welcome to the show, Marissa. Thanks for being on today. It's a pleasure to have you on.
[00:01:52] Speaker A: Thanks so much. Andrew. That was a really nice intro, and I feel the same about you. I know we've been connected for a while now and you've been wanting me to come on, so I'm excited to do my first podcast session. So thank you for having me.
[00:02:05] Speaker B: Oh, well, I am honored that it's your first one.
I feel like whenever somebody and I have had others who have done their first podcast with me, and I always feel so honored and privileged that people chose let's be diverse to be there first. So what I want to know from you is what's going on? What's going on in your world? What's happening? Give us the. Give us the deets. What's going on?
[00:02:27] Speaker A: Just busy. I'm working away. I'm four and a half years into my business and it's pretty consistent right now. I've picked up some incredible clients and have an awesome network. So, yeah, just busy.
[00:02:41] Speaker B: Yeah. And you seem like you have a lot of people that you collaborate with as well, and I feel that's probably important as well. I'm a true believer in rapport building and collaborating. Rapport building is my, one of my core values. And I feel that that is, along with collaborating, I feel is super important. And I imagine in recruitment it's super important as well.
[00:03:03] Speaker A: Having a network, any role you're in, networking is huge. Yeah.
[00:03:10] Speaker B: Well, I'm glad to hear that things are good. I'm glad to hear that the business is buzzing and people are calling you and that it's always good for, especially when you're, when you've got your own business and you're working for yourself to put food on the table. It's always good news to hear that for sure. So before we begin and before we get into the nuts and bolts of all of our podcast here and our discussion, I always have a fun question to get things going. Are you ready for your question today, Marissa?
[00:03:41] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm ready.
[00:03:43] Speaker B: Wonderful. So your question is quite simply, if you can make the ultimate sandwich, what would you put on it?
[00:03:52] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. The ultimate sandwich.
I like spicy food, so it probably includes some hot sauce.
Chicken is a go to for me. I'd have all the toppings like lettuce, tomato, bacon, and a little bit of mayo or ranch.
[00:04:10] Speaker B: That sounds like a pretty good sandwich. I don't know. I never would have thought it. A hot sauce. That's pretty interesting. You're probably one of the few people that would go for the hot sauce, so that's pretty cool. That sounds like a pretty ultimate sandwich. And would you say it would be like on like sliced bread or would you like to have it like on a, like a nice fresh bun? What would be your go to?
[00:04:32] Speaker A: Actually, I prefer a wrap or a flatbread.
[00:04:37] Speaker B: Okay. A wrap is good too.
[00:04:39] Speaker A: How about you, Andrew? How about you?
[00:04:41] Speaker B: I would say mine would probably be the same. Would be a nice wrap with, I probably say chicken or roast beef.
I'm not a lettuce guy, but tomato for sure. Maybe some pickles, mushrooms, olives, black, green olives. So I probably dress it up pretty good. For sure. Little. Little bit of mayo. And I'm a mustard and mayo guy as well. So I like the mayo and the mustard together.
[00:05:10] Speaker A: Now I'm hungry.
[00:05:13] Speaker B: Me too. So thanks for having fun with me on that question. I really appreciate you doing that. It's something that I do with all my guests, and I just love doing that. Why don't we start get this or kick things off with you telling us a little bit about you, your story, and your why.
[00:05:32] Speaker A: Yeah. So you did a pretty good job with introduction. I am a headhunter. I specialize in placing engineers. I help companies hire engineers or those with a specific background. Electrical, mechanical, computer processing, some computer science. I'm very intentional with everything that I do. So we've met each other probably through my branding, through LinkedIn. I am intangible. Who I add to my network, what clients I work with. I do operate a bit different too, where I only work with so many clients at a time because I do believe quality and focus and recruitment is super important if you want to see success.
So I have an HR background, have been working in the recruitment space. It's been eight and a half, almost nine years now. And I tend to think I'm a little bit on the advanced side. I'm a little bit nerdy when it comes to recruitment. So this is the area that I really find I thrive in.
Then on the personal side, I can add a bit more. I'm originally from Saskatchewan. I live out in the mountains on a ski resort. On a ski resort. In a ski resort. I have an amazing family. I have a 19 month old baby boy and he's not even a baby anymore. And I'm just living the good life. Yeah, pretty happy.
[00:06:46] Speaker B: I love that story. And I love when you said that you're very.
You're very intentional. You only work with a few clients at a time. I love that because I do speak to a lot of recruiters and they do take on a lot of clients. And I feel like, you know what? That could be, you know, in good. In some cases, I guess it's good because you got a lot of clients. A lot of, you know, a lot of funds are coming in. But the other thing is, is what I don't kind of are not crazy about is the fact that you kind of like going to a restaurant, Marissa, where you go. You go into a restaurant, you sit down and they bring in a menu and there's like 40 some odd items on the menu. And you look at it, you go, okay, well, that's awesome. You have all this stuff, but what do you guys specialize in? And the waitress says, well, we don't really specialize in everything. We want to make sure that customers have whatever they can get or what they'd ever they'd like. So we like to offer variety. And that's great to have variety, but you need to specialize in, you know, one thing. So I am one of those guys as well. I like to be. When I take on a project, I like to be. We're never perfect. We never solve it or we never become perfect. At it. But I feel like when, you know, I like to be at the point where I feel comfortable doing that task or that thing, and then I can feel like I can move on to the next thing. But before that, that's my sole purpose. So I could see you doing that, taking on these clients and making sure you're giving them your all and your full attent, their full of, your full attention. That way that you're not veering off and forgetting about them. You're making sure that they're all taken care of and you have your certain amount that, you know, you're able to, to do that with, for sure. So I do, like, really like that.
[00:08:37] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think there's nothing wrong with taking on more clients, but I think there are too many recruiters taking on a little bit too much. Like, how could you really understand a role when you're working on so many and being able to get as much information from your clients is really important. The candidates want that information. The way I'm a little bit different is I. I do keep all my candidates 100% confidential until they're interested, until they express interest in a role, because they. There are people out there who may be ready for the next challenge, but they're being very selective. It has to be the right opportunity. And the world is actually quite small. A lot of people know people within the engineering. There's a few different industries, but, yeah. So it's helpful, for sure.
[00:09:20] Speaker B: So what I want you to do, or what I'd like for you to do, is to explain to us what is the role of a niche recruiter.
[00:09:31] Speaker A: So I don't think it's any different from a recruiter recruiter. I think if you're good at recruiting, you know how to headhunt and you know how to find candidates for the roles that you're looking to fill. However, I do think if you work in a specialized space or in a niche market, you have a little bit of a competitive advantage, because when you reach out, if candidates can see that you work on similar roles, they might not be interested in your role, but they may respond to you. They're more likely to respond to you because they know that there may be another client, another opportunity that may be of interest. They may know people that they can refer you to. So I think you have a little bit more of a competitive advantage there. Also, I hate using this word, but it's really not a bad thing recycling candidates. So when I'm working on, say, a control systems role, I am interviewing candidates for one role. There's only one role. Often I'm meeting incredible people that could be a fit for other opportunities, so I may be able to put them forward with another client. Once in the next control system, opportunity comes available. So just make sense to me and getting to the candidates faster. A lot of companies are complaining about the cost of advertising, the cost of not having someone in a specific role, the cost of turnover, all that matters. So if you have the right people in your network and you can speak the language and find them faster, it makes an incredible difference.
That's just my take. But I do want to make it clear there are some amazing generalists out there who you know how, know how to headhunt. With the right information, they're able to target the right people. But when you work in a specific space, I think it, it definitely helps.
[00:11:06] Speaker B: So I was just gonna ask you, is that, do you find that because you've been HR, you have experience in HR? Do you find that because you are niching in the field that you're recruiting in, do you find that it's a little bit easier because you are just recruiting for that particular field and not for other ones, you find it a little bit easier?
[00:11:32] Speaker A: Yeah. You learn the language, you learn the skills, you learn transferable skills. There's a lot that you can learn from working in the same kind of industry or specialty, but it's about getting the right information right. If your clients are giving you the right information, you can target the right people. It's just getting to them faster.
[00:11:52] Speaker B: So why is niche recruiting? So we know we understand the role of niche recruiting. Why is niche recruiting so important?
[00:12:02] Speaker A: I think if you want to go out and work on your own, it's very important. I started my business four and a half years ago, and it was before COVID I was a journalist, and I know I'm good at recruiting, but even doing business development was difficult. Now business development's a lot easier because if I even connect with them on LinkedIn, they can see how many mutual connections we have. They know I'm connected to the right people just by seeing my network, which is very helpful.
So doing business development is a lot easier. Finding candidates is a lot easier. Like I said, candidates are more likely to talk to you even if they're not interested in the role that you're currently working on, because they know that you may pick up other opportunities. And I think just branding myself has helped a lot too. Like getting out there on LinkedIn, getting uncomfortable and showing what I have to offer and how I treat candidates, it's huge. There's a. Recruiters have a bad reputation and I don't know any recruiter that really doesn't want to fill their role. Often they're just not given the right tools to be successful.
[00:13:07] Speaker B: I think recruitment and I think HR in general has a bad rap because I feel like a lot of people who are not in HR, they feel like, especially in companies, they feel like HR is not for the employee or for upper management. So that's what a lot of people feel. And it's unfortunate because it's not the case. But that's just how, you know, you can't change people's minds. Some, you know, when they have their mindset and they're looking straight ahead, they have their blinders on and sometimes it's hard to, to change their thoughts. But I could definitely see that you, by doing niche recruiting, because you are so visible out there like you are, I could definitely see people just connecting with you as well and seeing, hey, oh, you know, I didn't, you know, maybe that they decided that they, for example, maybe decided to stay at their job and then maybe six months down the road they thought, okay, well, you know what? I need to make a change. But. And then they'll remember you and they'll contact you and say, hey, is there any roles you have available or can you let me know if something comes up? So I think you being visible and having that niche is definitely an aid for you as well.
[00:14:23] Speaker A: Thank you. I agree.
[00:14:25] Speaker B: It's been amazing, for sure. So what, what do you think? What are the best tools that you use for niche recruiting?
[00:14:36] Speaker A: Well, I think having a really strong applicant tracking system or CRM is huge for being successful in recruiting. You do forget when you work on roles, how many people you actually do reach out to. So tracking them is really helpful. So I use Luxo, which is a tool that does both CRM and ets, and it's been amazing. I have, I don't use the business development options as much or the CRM options, but I can create campaigns and actually reach out to new clients and hit them a few different times. We're all really busy. And when you're reaching out to new clients, usually you're reaching out to HR leadership or CEO's or hiring managers like engineering managers, and they're busy working. They're nothing. Always seeing their emails. So being able to personalize an email and have it go through a campaign, hit the connection a few times, whether it's LinkedIn or a few emails, it's really, really helpful. I found that was really helpful when I first started out and just working with candidates as well. I use a lot of the campaign features there to personalizing messages and having emails go out a few times because they're often missed the first time.
And using tools that pull emails and phone numbers, there's opportunity there to do a bit of cold calling. I'm not a big fan of cold calling, but I will if I need to. And actually, the last time I cold called, just recently, I had someone I reached out to who recognized me from LinkedIn. So it was really encouraging. It was a good conversation.
[00:16:06] Speaker B: Oh, that is, that is, that is very good. And, and I, you just said probably one of the keys there. You said personalizing your message. I feel like that's probably a good indication by that phone call because you personalize your messages. Maybe they seen some of the videos that you put out or maybe they talked to somebody who dealt with you and said, oh, oh, Marissa. She personalizes her messages and she really cares about her candidates that she works with, so, or the people that she works with. So I think word of mouth when you're building rapport is super important as well.
[00:16:45] Speaker A: And then just to add on, I think tools, it'll depend on who you are and what kind of tools you like. For me, I like using video marketing. So I use loom video. I use subtitle to help, you know, create some of my posts. There's a lot of tools that you can use. I'm testing a few more tools. I think I have like 15 on the go right now, which is a lot. And I don't think any, everyone should be using that many tools. But because I only focus on so many clients at a time, and I do have a network of other niche recruiters or generalist recruiters, too, that I'll often reach out to if I need to on certain roles that I cannot help my clients on. So I don't have to turn down business anymore. I have the opportunity to collaborate with other recruiters as well. That's more of a resource than a tool. But yeah, I think tools are unlimited these days. There's so much technology. Pretty incredible what's out there.
[00:17:40] Speaker B: It's amazing how things change over, over time. And like you said, however many, like, you know, maybe six months from now, there's going to be another tool that you're, we're going to hear about. You're going to, oh, my God, that's so much easier and way better than all the other tools that I'm using. So it's super, super cool to hear all the tools. I know of one called better leap as well. That is a huge tool.
A lot of recruiters that I have in this that I know in the states are using that. And one in particular recruiter saying that if you use better leap, you won't use any other tool.
It's everything that you need. So that would be one that I would probably check out as well. You might enjoy it as well.
[00:18:25] Speaker A: Yeah, that's what I feel like. Luxo is similar where it has so many features that you can utilize.
Incredible what applicant tracking systems can use. But I'll have to look into better leap.
[00:18:36] Speaker B: Definitely, definitely. Check it out. This one particular recruiter, she swears on it. She just absolutely loves it. And for her, she's like, if you're a recruiter, she would be. She's even willing to sit down with recruiters and show them how to use it. That's how, that's how cool, that's how cool she thinks it is.
So we're talking about niche recruitment. What do you think the future looks like for niche recruiting?
[00:19:06] Speaker A: I think that niche recruiters are going to be in demand. I think there is a time and a place when you need a recruiter that specializes. You don't always need them. I understand that as long as you're given the right information, you have recruiters who know how to head hunt and find talent. That's good. But there are some key roles that keep businesses going that often. It makes sense to use a recruiter. Like how quickly do you need someone to fill the role? Would you need the right person? It's really important. The cost of turnover is so high, so getting the right people in the right positions is really important. So using someone like me for specific roles could be, you know, there could be value there. There is value there and a lot of companies are seeing that. When you post a job and you're a constantly filtering through candidates who aren't reading the job description, who aren't even legally entitled to work where you are, it is time consuming. So it is a really good option and it makes sense.
[00:20:10] Speaker B: I know somebody and they were recruiting for a company, I'd say about four or five years ago in the eastern part of Canada, and they were finding that it takes a long time.
They are now a recruiter as well, like yourself a niche recruiter. But when they were working for a company, they would do like job fairs and stuff like that. Huge job fairs where they'd have hundreds and hundreds of people coming in for different departments. And what was happening was, she said, was that they had so many applicants that they weren't able to get back to everybody in a certain amount of time. So what was happening is about three, four weeks later, they were getting phone calls in the HR department, and there was, you know, because people would normally, they would check in and say, hey, following up on, you know, I went to his job fair. I applied for this position. Just following up to see, you know, just following up on it because that would be the typical thing to do. I would do the same thing. So she was saying that because of that, people were kind of the waiting game for them was so long. So she said they found sometimes they were going to check with somebody to say, hey, we'd like to interview you for this position. And by the time they got to them, that person already found employment. So they would, like, tell them, say, listen, you know, I'm sorry, you know, I found another position or what have you. So do you find that the niche part? Do you find that it's quicker because you're, you know, interviewing people and it's quicker to get back to them, or is it just because it's a bigger company that it takes a while? What's your thoughts on that?
[00:22:01] Speaker A: I think you have to be ready when you're posting roles. You need to have a sense of urgency or you do lose candidates. In regards to candidates not hearing back, I think applicant tracking systems can definitely solve that problem. It's easy to send an email if you're not considering them, and that will avoid people reaching out. You know, job seekers, applicants, they spend a lot of time, like, it's a lot of work applying for jobs. So having an answer is huge for them because I'm a headhunter and clients usually reach out to me after they've already tried finding the candidate themselves. They've already tried posting, and I look at the past market. I also post to my network, which is a little bit on the active market, but passive candidates are typically working in their roles. They're not searching job boards. They may be ready for their next challenge. They may be thinking about it. But most people are busy working in the roles. The last thing they want to do is go home and apply for jobs. It is tedious work.
[00:22:56] Speaker B: So it's interesting. It was interesting to me when she had mentioned that to me, this was a conversation we had, guess about three, four years ago. And it's just interesting to me as we were having a conversation, it made me think of it and how, you know how it is. And you're absolutely right. You know, we should have an applicant tracking system to get back to clients as well. I think the problem, I think the issue there is that these client, these people going to these job fairs or having interviews with certain people and the people that are interviewing them are saying, oh, well, you know, we'll get back to you at a certain amount of time. So I told her, I said, in my opinion, that was probably the wrong thing to do because now when you say somebody, someone tells, you know, someone was to tell me, oh, I'm gonna get back to you. Whether it's like a job or even a friend that says, hey, I'll call, call you on Tuesday and we'll set something up for. For supper. Well, then I'm expecting that phone call. Right? And if I don't get it, well, then I'm like, oh, well, I didn't. Never heard from them or whatever. And then you kind of messaged them maybe two days later, say, hey, I never heard from you on Tuesday. What happened? So I think when you're expecting it, it's a totally different scenario than, like you said, just applying. And, you know, I think they should say, look, I told her they should probably say, if we're interested, we'll get in contact with you. That's a probably way better way.
[00:24:27] Speaker A: I think it's all about communication, and I think that, you know, a lot of coaches get a bad rep for that because they don't hear back. Another thing I want to add is, like, I feel like I'm really on the ball. I'm good at what I. What I do, but there has been times where I've actually missed someone that I thought I reached out to, and it's the worst feeling. So when job seekers are thinking the worst, I always caution them, reach out, send an email, because that will get you the answer you need. Or ask questions like, when can I expect to hear from you? So, you know, that deadline, it really helps. We are busy in recruitment. It does happen, and there's a lot going on. There's a lot of moving pieces. And I'm not saying it's right to miss steps like that, but we are human, and I think that we all need to be treating each other a little bit better because there is a lot of job seekers who are very negative towards recruiters. And I know recruiters like myself really care a lot about what we do and care about the candidate experience, and we are human. Things do happen. So I just wanted to comment there because I think it's really important to put yourself in other people's shoes. And if a company doesn't get back to you and they gave you their word, I hate to say it, but you may have just dodged a bullet. Move on. Use your energy where it matters.
[00:25:44] Speaker B: And I am one of those people that, you know, you shouldn't assume stuff in this situation, so, you know, don't assume anything. And I totally agree with what you just said.
If you don't get back to you, then, you know, it's probably better that you didn't get a position there. There probably might be some black marks or something about the company that you'll find out whatever I values and, and all that stuff, and you're probably better off. So I totally agree with you on that for sure.
Marissa, if you could choose one word to describe yourself, what word would that be?
[00:26:25] Speaker A: Well, the word that comes to my mind is tenacity. So tenacious. I'm someone who is determined, committed, and never gives up. My husband and I was talking about this the other day, and he's like, are you sure you want to use that word? And I'm like, let me check with chat GPT. And that's actually the word that came up. So tenacity is huge. I think it's really important if you're dedicated to what you do.
[00:26:49] Speaker B: And that's definitely, I love that word. So you could probably tell your husband that I think it was a great word. And the reason why I like that for you is because a tenacious, tenacious recruiter for me is somebody who wants to make sure that you're taking on a candidate or taking on a company and are looking for a great person for that company. We need to be tenacious to make sure that we are finding the proper person, whether it's the proper person for the company or the proper company for the individual. So we can't be just lackadaisical on that. I think. I think we need to be a little tenacious on that. You could tell them that I didn't agree with them. I felt that. I feel like that's a pretty good word for you.
I would probably also give you humble because I really feel like you are a very humble individual. And I see people writing stuff to you also on LinkedIn, and you kind of like, oh, you take the compliment, but you throw one right back. And that's a humble person to me because some people, some people would just take that compliment and go, oh, yeah, I'm, you know, you know, you told me I'm awesome. Oh, yeah, I am awesome. But you take that compliment. You're very humble, and you like, well, thank you very much. However, you know, you are also like that, whatever. And you've done that with me, too. So I feel like that is a humble individual in my mind, for sure.
[00:28:34] Speaker A: Thanks, Andrew. I think it's just good to encourage each other. Like, I'm not perfect. I'm still figuring it out. I've only been four and a half years on my own. I have learned so much in my entrepreneurial journey so far, and I'm still figuring it out. I'm very confident what I do, and I definitely add value to my clients.
But, yeah, we're all. We're all working. We're all trying to do our best. So I think encouraging others, and you don't have to agree with everything I put out on LinkedIn, it's okay. Often it's just an opinion, and it could be changed, too. So I think we're all unique in our own ways, and our perspectives are all so different.
[00:29:09] Speaker B: I totally agree with you. I feel like when we, and I will say this to people, that the moment that I feel like I am, I've reached it, or I don't need any assistance, that's when I feel like I'm gonna find myself, or that's where I feel like people will find themselves in trouble. So you said it before, and I agree with you 100%. We're not perfect, and I feel we need to be lifelong learners. Thing like you said before, things change. Things in recruitment are changing probably all the time. So you're never gonna be at a point where you say, oh, I got everything under control. I know it all. It's, you know, it's, you know, you're just talking before about trying different systems to help your. Yourself out. So that's, you know, that just tells me that you're a learner. You're trying to figure it out and you're trying to better, you know, try to continue to be better, and that's. That's what a leader is for. Sure.
[00:30:10] Speaker A: No, I think recruitment is a fun space to be in. We're helping people in their careers, and I just. I'm so grateful for my network. I can. I can tell you that I feel like I'm going in the right direction. I have met some incredible people after that over the last four and a half years. And if you're listening and you're a job seeker within my space, I have started a link. I'm testing it out right now to join my database. If I have access to your resume and more information, it's easier for me to identify whether you're fit for the role. I can't respond to everyone who's reaching out now. I have over 15,000 people in my network and my inbox is exploding. So I'm actually using AI to make sure I'm responding to those who have reached out regarding the roles that I'm working on because I do have a serious commitment to my clients. So hopefully, Andrew, that you're seeing value in the post that I put out to my network. It's really important for me to give back and that's my way of giving back. But it also creates a lot more work with people reaching out, thinking that I can find them jobs when I'm not a career coach. So I'm still playing around, trying to give value and still fill my roles.
[00:31:19] Speaker B: So I wanted to take the time to thank you. My final thoughts? I want to take time to thank you for coming on today.
I feel you're an awesome individual and I what I do like about you is that you care just about people in general. And I feel that's probably why your network, you just mentioned that your network is growing, and I feel like that is a huge reason why it's growing is because people are looking for that today. I feel like people change their philosophy. Yes, we're looking for money. Yes, we're looking for, you know, we need to put food on our table, we need to pay our bills. But I feel like we're also looking for human, authentic individuals who are caring and compassionate. And we also want to be seen, heard, valued and understood. And I feel like you do that. And that's probably a good reason why people are gravitating to you. And I know that they're going to continue to gravitate to you. So continue doing your good work because you are the kicking butt.
[00:32:25] Speaker A: Thanks so much, Andrew. And I would comment back to you. I know you say that, I always comment, but you're doing a great job, too. I see you show up all the time. I see you growing, and it's pretty incredible that you're sharing your experience. I really appreciate it. So thank you so much for inviting me on the podcast and I wish you all the best as well.
[00:32:45] Speaker B: Well, I definitely appreciate that on behalf of myself and my guest, Marissa. So I would like to thank you all for listening today. Until next time, be safe everybody. And remember that if we all work together, we can accomplish anything you have been listening to.
[00:33:02] Speaker A: Let's be diverse with Andrew Stout. To stay up to date with future content, hit subscribe.
