Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Before we dive in today's episode, I want to take a moment to share something that's been on my heart, something I've been working on behind the scenes for a while now. I'm officially writing a book. This book is called let's Be A Practical Guide to Leading Through Change. And it's deeply personal to me. It's built from real experiences. The uncertainty, the challenges, the moments where I didn't have the answers but had to lead. This isn't just a leadership book filled with theory. It's about navigating uncertainty when there's no clear direction, building internal clarity where everything around us feels unclear, having courageous conversations even when they're uncomfortable, and leading with value, especially when it's the hardest to do so. I'm also going into topics that don't get talked about enough, like what it feels like to be challenged, overlooked, and even bullied as an adult in a workplace. And how those moments shape the kind of leader you become. This book is for anyone who's ever thought, how do I lead when I don't feel ready? How do I show up when I don't have all the answers? And how do I stay true to myself in environments that challenge me? If this is you, this book is for you. I'll be sharing more about the journey behind the scenes moments and opportunities for you to be part of it as we go. So stay tuned because this is more than just a book. It's a movement around how we lead through change together.
All right, let's get to today's episode.
[00:01:25] Speaker B: Opinions expressed in this episode are personal. They do not necessarily reflect the views of this streaming platform.
[00:01:35] Speaker A: Good day, wonderful people, and welcome to another edition of let's Be Diverse. I am your host, Andrew Stout. This episode is dedicated to all my loved ones who supported me through this journey. Those who have left us will always be in our hearts and will never be forgotten. Today our topic is leading with confidence, building stronger leaders in healthcare. My guest today is someone that I met recently and I think is just a super awesome human. Her name is Amanda Greening. Amanda, welcome to the show. Thanks so much for joining us today.
[00:02:06] Speaker B: Thanks for having me here.
[00:02:07] Speaker A: You're very welcome. What's been energizing you these days, Amanda? Give me the tea, give me the deets, give me it all. What's going on?
[00:02:13] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. It's just living the day to day. Working bedside at the hospital and then also working, working as. Becoming a board certified nurse, life coach.
[00:02:23] Speaker A: Oh, wow. That's amazing.
[00:02:26] Speaker B: That's amazing. Yeah.
[00:02:26] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:02:27] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:02:27] Speaker A: How's that process going?
[00:02:29] Speaker B: It's going really well. I've done my. I am certified, but I am sitting for my boards in less than two weeks, so I'll be board certified sitting down, like my big nursing test.
[00:02:42] Speaker A: Oh, wow. Wow.
[00:02:44] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:02:44] Speaker A: Well, I'm sure you're gonna do well. It sounds like you're doing everything that you can to. To make sure that you're successful in the ex.
I can't see any reason why you wouldn't be successful. So congratulations.
[00:02:55] Speaker B: Thank you. It's been a lot of hard work and I can't wait until it's done.
[00:02:58] Speaker A: Oh, I bet, I bet. Well, thanks for letting us know how things are going. Before we begin, I always have a fun, thought provoking question and I ask all my guests to get things going. Are you ready for yours today, Amanda?
[00:03:10] Speaker B: I sure am. Let's do it.
[00:03:12] Speaker A: Okay. So your question today is, if your life was a television show, what would a title be and why?
[00:03:18] Speaker B: Oh, my goodness.
What would the title be and why? Oh, that's a really good one. I would have to say it'd probably be more like friends. I have really close friends and we love to hang out and do things together. And at the same time as things are completely falling apart, we're finding the humor in it.
[00:03:36] Speaker A: It's always nice to have friends and people who stick with us and support us through the thick and thin. Thanks so much for having fun with me. So let's get things going here. When we talk about leadership confidence in healthcare, what does that actually look like and feel like? And how is it different from simply being confident as a professional?
[00:03:57] Speaker B: I think that professional confidence is knowing that you can do something. And when leadership confidence is being okay with not knowing and being okay with not knowing out loud in front of all the people who are watching you. And as, as a clinician, as a nurse, I feel like it's confidence based. Like I can start an IV on a 24 week baby and that's the right answer and I know it. And that confidence is something that is earned through repetition, that lives in my hands. But leadership confidence isn't about always having the answer. And I feel like it's the ability to stay regulated when there isn't even an answer right then. But you have to keep making decisions anyways. I feel like it's more nervous based system than knowledge base when it comes to leadership confidence.
[00:04:50] Speaker A: Staying regulated is key for sure. And I think in any situation, doesn't matter where you're working. We have to be okay with. I'm not okay. But we have to be able to lead through the chaos. So there's not always going to be times where it's going to be sunshine and rainbows, especially in your field. There's going to be some days that are going to be okay and then there's going to be some days where it's going to be like chaotic. And how we lead through those situations is key because we have people that are looking at us and they're following us. So if they see us reacting a certain way in the chaos, well, then they're going to react that way. I imagine in your field there are days where it's pretty chaotic and we just have to regulate our temperament and our way of reacting, our reaction time and the way that we react in certain situations.
[00:05:44] Speaker B: Yeah. And one of the things is understanding and asking yourself if you can tolerate being uncomfortable in front of your team without them needing to reassure you. That is something you can ask yourself because there's many times you have to say, I don't know yet, but here's how we're going to find out.
And you also need to be understanding and willing to accept that you're not necessarily the smartest person in the room. There's other people there as well.
[00:06:13] Speaker A: Absolutely. For sure. So healthcare leaders are constantly making decisions in high pressure environments.
What tends to shake leaders confidence and how can they stay grounded when they don't have all the answers?
[00:06:27] Speaker B: Well, I think what shakes most healthcare leaders isn't actually the emergency we find ourselves in. We're actually really great in emergencies, but it's the aftermath. What happens after that usually gets us. Then after the emergency, the leader kind of has some destabilizers, like, you know, being one of them is being disliked by your team or the decision with no good option, there's just like a less bad option.
And then also the outcomes you couldn't control and those outcomes are as a leader, attached to your name. And there's usually a trap that people get in confusing the bad outcome with a bad decision.
So in healthcare you can make a completely sound call and still have it go badly. And so if you grade your leadership by your outcomes, that can cause your confidence to totally plummet. Because there's a lot of things that aren't in our control.
[00:07:29] Speaker A: No, they're not. And you're talking about outcomes.
We're going to make decisions that not everybody's going to agree with or they're going to make assumptions of why we made those decisions. But you're absolutely right. If you're confident with the decision that you made and that you're confident of why you made that decision and why it was best for your team and the outcome of this situation or the organization, then I think that's, that's, that's key right there.
[00:07:59] Speaker B: Yes, yes. And you have to separate the decision from the result. For example, like asking yourself, given what I knew at the time, was the call I made, reasonable? And I think that's one of the only fair questions you can ask, because we can't know everything all the time. And then you can also ask yourself, you know, giving. I don't have all the information yet, but I still have to make a call. Because in leadership, especially in healthcare, you have to be able to make calls and also at the same time, pivot when you need to.
[00:08:29] Speaker A: You definitely have to. There's that. That pivot is very important. You're absolutely right.
[00:08:33] Speaker B: Yes. And it's okay in that time of pivot to take a moment and just collect yourself, but you also need to make sure it's. You're not freezing. You have to still be able to make decisions on the go and on your feet.
And getting that regulation needs to be not from your approval of your team, but the steadiness that you have, your team's going to be able to see.
And that, I believe, is a very important part of leadership, especially in healthcare. Seeing that you're steady and you're not going to freeze is what they're looking for.
[00:09:07] Speaker A: Amanda, many talented healthcare professionals step into leadership because they are excellent at what they do. But leading people requires a very different skill set.
Where are the biggest mindset shifts they need to make?
[00:09:21] Speaker B: Ooh, that's a good question. I would say that being promoted in healthcare is one of the best things that you see yourself like, oh, my gosh, I'm being seen with the work that I do. And I think that one of the biggest core shifts is you need to build conditions around yourself where other people feel comfortable coming and talking to you. And I feel like this, this is held in a way of you being able to understand that this is a new skill that you're also trying to develop as you're doing it. And do not compare yourself to someone who you think is doing it perfectly. And it's okay to have a little bit of struggle. And struggling is actually going to be a character builder that builds you the right way into a leadership role where other people see that you're also human.
[00:10:17] Speaker A: I was talking to somebody the other Day, Amanda and we were in conversation about this very topic.
And what I'm seeing with leadership is there's been a shift in the last little while and I would probably say since the pandemic and I don't, I'm not saying that leaders have become psychologists, but I feel like they're having to be a little bit more of a psychologist, but because of the things that their team are coming to them with and they're needing to figure out, obviously they're not going to have all the answer, they're not psychologists. But having that ability to listen when they need to listen, but also having that ability to say that they don't have the answers but they will find it out and they will get back to them. So I'm feeling that they're needing to be conditioned in that way, way more than they used to be, than they used to have to.
[00:11:15] Speaker B: Yes, yes, I absolutely agree. And I also feel like leadership right now is you're helping to develop your team in ways that are more than just the hands on skills that we do. So developing someone who becomes as good as maybe, I mean even you is actually a bigger win than you going in and doing everything. So helping other people develop and their own skills and things, I believe that is something that they can do. And by doing that, you're also listening, you're also helping them out, you're holding space for them to say, hey, I do feel uncomfortable with this. And as a good leader, you're not going to be, you know, okay, well you shouldn't, you should be able to do this. But a good leader in my mind is someone that can sit down and go, okay, I hear that you're feeling uncomfortable. What are you feeling uncomfortable with? How can we work past this or how can I help support you so you can jump in and do this skill or whatever's that thing they're uncomfortable with. And I just believe that we have more options and abilities to help build people not just as professionals, but also as human beings.
[00:12:30] Speaker A: Yeah, being a good communicator is key, being the ability to communicate what your thoughts are, but also learning when to communicate and when not to communicate. Right.
[00:12:39] Speaker B: Yes. And I mean there is a shift from the I invested this to I build people who are. And I think it that no one warns leaders about this, about that psychological that, helping, that supporting because I feel like that's something that many people don't know how to talk about to people in leadership is how to deal with that.
[00:13:05] Speaker A: Amanda, how does self awareness and emotional intelligence Influence leaders ability to build confidence, especially when dealing with difficult conversations, conflict, or even resistance. Ooh.
[00:13:21] Speaker B: Well, I think most conversations don't go badly because the leader lacked the right words.
I feel like they go badly because the leader actually was dysregulated inside and they don't know it. And self awareness is the difference between having a feeling and being ran by that feeling. So if you walk into a conflict and a conversation already activated, like if you're defensive or you're feeling rushed, or if you're taking something personally, then what is being said really doesn't matter because you already in your mind are activated and you already have a story in your mind of how it's going to go. And I believe, like, before you have a hard conversation, you need to ask yourself a couple questions like, what are you feeling right now? Are you feeling like you're taking, if you're being attacked personally?
And how are you afraid of what this conversation is going to say about you? And usually if someone is afraid what the conversation is going to be about them, it usually is them saying, I'm afraid. This means I'm not a good leader.
Or it could be I'm afraid they think I'm a harsh person.
[00:14:38] Speaker A: Yet an assumption factory.
[00:14:40] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah. Just kind of assuming that that's what's going on. You already have that story in your head and then you're not in a position or ability to have that open conversation to really find out what's going on. And resistance is also like information that you can use from your staff when someone pushes back. The more the question you should be asking or the way you should be feeling is curiosity. Like, help me understand why you're pushing back or help me understand why you're feeling the way you're doing. Because it also could just be a miscommunication between what is really going on and how that person feels.
[00:15:23] Speaker A: Yeah. Miss. Or, or, yeah, not fully understanding what they're dealing with and, or what they could be dealing with or what their thoughts are. So I agree with you. Getting a, a little bit more of a, an understanding or an explanation of what they could be dealing with or what their thoughts are will help you to help you to deal with that situation before. But if you don't know what they're dealing with, then you're just going to be giving them information or saying something that may even upset them even more. Because you're not listening. Because you're not listening.
[00:15:55] Speaker B: Yeah. And being curious about someone is not harmful at all. Just asking what's Going on when you're not curious and you don't ask them, you actually often don't learn what the actual problem is. And so like nurses, we're trained to read the room constantly. We're constantly evaluating and assessing and we do it with our families and our patients all day long. So this is a skill that I believe that leadership, nurses in leadership especially, it's one of their tools they can keep in their tool belt and it's just ready to go. Especially when you've done it for decades, you're able to pull that out and read the room. And so when you do read it and see, like, feel like something's off, be curious and ask the question to
[00:16:41] Speaker A: your staff, what are some practical things an emerging health care leader can do to strengthen their leadership confidence without feeling like they are become someone they're not.
[00:16:53] Speaker B: Yes, this is actually really interesting because I with like emerging leaders that I've worked with, they have the picture in their head what a real leader sounds like and that's in their own mind is usually has never been them. So some ideas for them to to work on is maybe stop auditing. Notice when you're performing a version of leadership you saw somewhere else, because when you are performing, your team can tell and borrowed authority comes across really, really fake. And it your own authority actually reads much steady and even quieter and your staff can see that. And then also something we also talked about a little bit earlier ago is like, if you don't have the answer, have something, a phrase that you will say, not necessarily scripted, but something in your mind that you can be like, oh, yes, I don't have the answer yet, but I will find out and I will come back to you by the end of shift, then actually do it. Even if you can't find out the answer, come back to them and say, hey, I looked into this. I don't have the answer yet, but I have asked so and so or moved it up so they feel like they're being heard because being reliable actually builds authority than being impressive. And then also something I really work with because I work with a lot of nurses in burnout is actually to debrief yourself weekly, even if it's just like 10 minutes, take a moment, you can journal, you can just say it out loud, whatever you want to do. And you can just put in there, like, what did I decide for this week? What did I avoid? And then lastly, what did I learn? Because confidence comes with evidence. And if you never review what you're doing, you don't have your record and then you really don't know what, what you're doing. And so just debriefing. And that also gives you a moment to wrap up everything nicely and leave it to the side and continue on with your non leadership, your home life as well. And then ask yourself for like ask yourself feedback, how am I doing? And what is something like you could do better or you wish you would have done better.
[00:19:16] Speaker A: Yeah. You talked about board authority. Yes, we, I think we learn some stuff and, and people teach us stuff, mentors teach us stuff.
[00:19:26] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:26] Speaker A: And I think it's okay to follow a mentor, but yeah, you definitely have to be your own leader.
And I think people see that when you're yourself, if you're pretending to be somebody else, I think you're right. People see through that. So it's like going to a barbecue or a conference and people saying so and so is like so much different at a barbecue or a gathering than when they're at a conference or when they're in a meeting or when we're doing a one on one.
People can see that. But when you are the same person in every facet, people see that as well. And I think you get a lot more notoriety from that rather than being a different person in every different scenario.
[00:20:12] Speaker B: Yes. And also speaking about mentors, when you are looking for a mentor, find a mentor that you can be uncertain with. And what I mean by that is someone that's not going to be like, oh yes, yes, you're doing a good job. Oh yes, yes. I think of finding a mentor. I relate it to a nurse coach. If I was going to be working with a client, I'm going to be asking those curiosity questions. And some of them can be a little bit, make you feel a little bit uncertain or push you your boundary a little bit. Only because that's where we learn. We also can find out more about ourselves because confidence doesn't necessarily mean louder.
And you don't need a big personality to be a leader. You need to be, you need to have a reliable personality.
[00:21:03] Speaker A: Yes, a reliable personality. I love that. I think a lot of people, we all need to remember that for sure.
[00:21:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
Before we wrap up today, Amanda, what is one key takeaway they'd like all of our listeners to remember from this episode?
[00:21:18] Speaker B: Huh. I think one thing that you can take away from this episode is confidence is not a prerequisite for leading. It's actually a byproduct from leading. No one arrives to, to leadership feeling ready. Every leader I have worked with is waiting to feel confident before they act. And actually in leadership, especially in healthcare, it's the other way around. You act, you survive it, and then you gather your evidence and then your confidence shows up afterward. When you show up afterward. So the question I would ask someone isn't, am I confident enough yet? It's can I take one uncomfortable action today and stay with myself after?
[00:22:06] Speaker A: Confidence is key for sure. Yeah. And I think we, we have to understand too that you're going to learn things through the process. So I would imagine in your field things will happen and you will look back and you'll say, okay, this happened.
What am I going to do if, if this comes up another time or again, how will I handle this? Or how would I deal with this situation the next time? So it's almost a learning curve. Imagine in your field, but not just your field, but in every leadership situation as well.
[00:22:43] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah. And you can also be a good leader without giving yourself to the whole job because burnout is not the price of leadership. And that's one of the most important things I want people to also hear because as nurses, we like, we jump in and we just give, give, give, give. And also in leadership, burnout is a very prevalent thing.
But we, it needs to also understand that if you are burning out, you are not going to be a good leader. So you need to take care of yourself. But stop waiting to feel confident before you lead. Lead and your confidence will catch up.
[00:23:20] Speaker A: I like that.
Lead and your confidence will catch up. That is such a great thing to remember for sure. Something that I think a lot of leaders should learn and know and if they don't, then it's something that they definitely should try to practice more than than not. For sure.
[00:23:38] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:23:39] Speaker A: My call to action would be to like share and follow this episode. Amanda, I want to take the time to thank you for coming on today. What I admire about you is your balance, your hard working nature, your confidence, your assertiveness and just your genuine overall outgoing personality. It has been an absolute pleasure to have you on here today and it's a pleasure to have this conversation with you.
[00:24:05] Speaker B: So thank you, thank you, thank you for having me. It was great to be here.
[00:24:09] Speaker A: You're very welcome. On behalf of myself and my guest, Amanda, I'd like to thank you all for joining us today. And until next time, be safe and remember everyone that if we all work together, we can accomplish anything.
[00:24:22] Speaker B: You have been listening to. Let's be diverse with Andrew Stout to stay up to date with future content, hit subscribe.
