Critical Thinking

[00:00:05] Speaker A: Opinions expressed in this episode are personal. They do not necessarily reflect the views of this streaming platform. [00:00:15] Speaker B: Good day, everyone, and welcome to another edition of let's be diverse. I am your host, Andrew Stoute. This episode is dedicated to all my loved ones who have supported me through this journey. Our topic today is critical thinking. It's something that I've been looking at and thinking about a lot because there are many times where we have to use critical thinking and whether it's at work, whether we're trying to figure out our finances, personal, whatever it is, we have to use critical thinking in many different aspects of our life. My guest today is Candice Tabor. Candice is a wife, mother, lifter, reader, writer, aspiring baker, and drinker of too much coffee. She's an avid student of human behavior and unlearning the narratives that perpetuate the same outcomes in employee employer value exchanges. She's worked in sales training and enablement across multiple industries in b two B and b two c. Her current assignment is is to create effective enablement for leaders. Candice is someone who just brings integrity, compassion, professionalism into every interaction, especially the ones that we've had. Welcome to the show, Candace. It is super exciting to have you on here today. [00:01:37] Speaker A: Thank you for having me, Andrew. I really appreciate being here and getting to have this conversation with you. [00:01:42] Speaker B: You're very, very welcome. Let's start off. How are things with you? I want to know what's going on in your world, what's happening? Give us the deets. What's the story? What's going on? [00:01:52] Speaker A: Well, the deets are, the weather is changing in Kansas City, so spring is on its way, which is always a good thing. And I am a few months into a new assignment, a new role that I really enjoyed because it's been a bigger part of a passion project and a bigger part of a passion for something I've just seen overall, within the way the current market is for talent and for employers. [00:02:22] Speaker B: And how are you liking it so far? Is it what you thought it was gonna be? Is it a little bit different? [00:02:27] Speaker A: That's a good question. They did such a good job with my experience, and I've met some really great people who are very helpful. So I've actually had a very candidly, one of the better experiences I've had with employers in the last few years, and so it's been really great. [00:02:45] Speaker B: That is awesome to hear. Some of the things that I hear a lot is that people, a lot of people don't have a lot of a very good experience when they start off a new employment or a new job. And a lot of it is because it's the onboarding process. It's not planned, it's not set up. So it sounds like that was set up well and gave you a great first impression of the first day of the company. And that's great. That will keep you engaged long term. When it's not that great, people kind of wonder, like, did I make the right decision or did I choose the right company? So it's. I'm glad to hear that it went well for you. [00:03:29] Speaker A: Yeah. Gosh, I think we're all familiar with those kinds of experiences, and so when you have a good one, it makes you really appreciate it because, you know, the people, you know, put intentionality behind it, and it makes a difference, makes people feel like they matter. [00:03:45] Speaker B: It certainly does. It certainly does. Well, I'm glad to hear that everything is going well for you, and congratulations on a new assignment. That's super exciting. It's always exciting when we have something new. So congratulations on that. Before we begin, I always have a fun question from my guests to get things going. Are you ready for yours? [00:04:07] Speaker A: Yes. [00:04:08] Speaker B: Okay. Your question today is, if you didn't have to work to make money, how would you spend your time and what would you create? [00:04:18] Speaker A: Oh, that is a good question. I love that. This one. This one's easy. I would definitely have a cafe slash bakery. And so I would spend my time recipe testing and experimenting and creating a memorable food experience for people that would come to my restaurant. My cafe. [00:04:40] Speaker B: Oh, nice. If that ever happens and you do open up a bakery and you are needing a tester, I am available for. For cheap. [00:04:49] Speaker A: Okay. [00:04:50] Speaker B: All I need to do is taste the food. I'll do it for free. [00:04:52] Speaker A: Okay, good to know. [00:04:56] Speaker B: Well, thanks for having fun with me. I really appreciate you taking the time to answer that question. It's a great way for us to get started on the podcast, and I just enjoy that. So why don't we start off with you telling us a little bit about you, your story, and your why. [00:05:12] Speaker A: Yeah, I would say my story. I mean, it's a long one. I would say there's events that definitely have marked my life in terms of shaping who I am and, you know, forging, you know, my belief systems, my worldview. But I think the biggest part of why I focus on enablement, why I focus on learning so much, is a big part of that. And that was really fueled by my grandmother. She's someone who, you know, it is international Women's month. And when I think about, you know, two profound women in my life, one was my grandmother and one Washington, someone who was a mentor in my early career and changed that trajectory for me in so many different ways. And so a lot of my, why, a lot of what drives me to work with people and to, you know, just the love for working with people is my grandmother, and it's also my family. I want to make my son and husband proud, you know, when they think about what I do for a living, how I treated people, you know, and that's the most important thing to me is that my son knows that when mommy went to work, you know, she cared about what she did, not more than her family, but cared about the people that she worked with by her role, you know, by her assignment. And I don't stop caring about people when that assignment changes. And so really all that to say is learning and getting people what they need and focusing on enablement is really about serving other people within the workplace because you see their potential. And you know, that either you had an experience where someone didn't help equip you for what you needed for success. And so I take it as a privilege and a responsibility that when I'm in, you know, when I'm in a workplace, that I'm going to be that person that helps support you and enable you because you're absolutely worth it. And every human has gifts and talents. And I like being a part of more companies who focus on that, who understand that the greatest thing that makes a company successful is its people, and not in some ethereal way, like, it's not tangible. No. There's things we can do to create the experience for employees that, that show that they matter. And I think good enablement is one of them. And my drive to do it well is always going to be my grandmother, my husband, and my son. [00:07:48] Speaker B: So there's so many things that I want to focus on. There's such a great story. First off, I love the fact that you talk about your grandmother and how she instilled in you. I love that story. My late mom was the same way. I learned a lot of stuff. I learned a lot of stuff from my father, but I learned a lot of stuff from my mother as well. And a lot of the stuff that she instilled in me is part of who I am. Very much so, as far as personality wise, being genuine, looking after people, like you said, being kind, that comes from her. So I love that you had said that, first of all. Second of all, I love that you talk about people and how they treat you, and you want to teach your son that way how to do that. I feel that's super important as well. And for me, that's part of leadership. Candace, I feel like you were leading your son and your family the way that you want to have your household be, and you're teaching your son and leading him in a direction of how you want him to be as he grows up and becomes an adult. So I totally love that you had said that, and I appreciate the fact that you. Not that every parent doesn't do that, but I feel like when it's a sincere focus, I truly feel like things work out well for everyone. [00:09:13] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, thank you for saying that. I think one thing is right. He's. As he's growing up, he's looking at, you know, what has dad and I did with our lives, right? And when we went to work, how did we interact? How do we talk about work when we're at home, right, and we're off the computer or, you know, my husband gets back, you know, how do we talk about our jobs and what we did and, frankly, how we talk about other people, right? Because he's going to, you know, he's going to get exposure to that. And I can't turn around and tell my son, you know, be kind to people and treat them well if he doesn't see his father and I doing that in our places of work, like, I can't ask him to do the same thing that I'm not willing to do. [00:10:01] Speaker B: I love that because, yes, I totally agree with you. And if, you know, as a leader, for example, if you're doing that at home, it could be the same as an organization and your team. And if you have ten people on your team and all of a sudden, all hell breaks loose and things start happening, it depends on if you're going to act as a leader that, you know, oh, my God, what's going on? And you're gonna act with the chaos, well, then everyone's gonna follow your lead, and they're gonna follow that. If you have a calm demeanor and if you have a certain way of acting and you tell everybody everything is gonna be okay, let's start. And you start to develop a plan to make sure that everything is gonna be good, well, then they're gonna follow that. So I feel like that's important in a home as well. And like I said, I love that you. That you do that with your son, and I think that's super important. And it kind of leads into our conversation today, which is super cool, which is critical thinking. So, Candace, I want you to tell me what is critical thinking? [00:11:00] Speaker A: Critical thinking is if we go to a classic definition, it's not going to say this, but I think one, it's pausing and assessing, analyzing and doing some research analysis, really before you come to a strong judgment about something. So critical thinking is really about testing out whether or not you're right about something or if you're learning about something, having a hypothesis and testing out that hypothesis, or doing research to get perspective and remove biases of your perspective as much as possible. So I think those are some core components that are really important. We do all have biases. Right. And so I think that one of the best things we can do is acknowledge that and be open to remove that or to mitigate that as much as possible so we can learn new things or we can unlearn things that frankly just don't lend for the world to get better or situations to improve or to kick the, that's the way we've always done it, right out the door. And so I think critical thinking is a core skill and component to not being focused on being right, but getting to the right thing, getting to a right conclusion, getting to the right place together. [00:12:34] Speaker B: I love everything that you said there packed in there. I love the fact you said the research and removing biases. I feel like we're in a stage in a lot of instances where we assume things and we shouldn't assume we should do our research and figure out stuff instead of assuming that something is going a certain way or assuming something about a situation, or someone should do the research and figure out what the situation is, or we may not have to figure out the situation, just leave it be. If it's something that needs to be left to be, leave it be and it'll all come into play for sure. So I definitely love that. And I love when you said focus on being right. That's something I've noticed a lot. You know, a lot is that people, you know, somebody says something and then people like, well, I don't think it's that way. I think it's this, well, you know, it makes me think of diversity of thought. So there's a different way of thinking of things and there's no, like, doesn't mean that I'm right. I'm more right than you are or vice versa. It just means that I think of something a little bit differently and you think of something a little bit differently. So the way I look at it is, you know, I look at it this way, Candace looks at it that way, I'm gonna respect. I may not agree with her, but I'm gonna respect her thoughts as long as she respects my thoughts, and then we're just gonna leave it be. So I love when you. I love when you said that. Focus on that. [00:14:07] Speaker A: Well, I think that's one thing that's really important, is a lot of times we're so fully charged on wanting to be right and be affirmed. And I think that that goes into another conversation. You know, we can have another time about worth, you know, and. And where people derive that idea from on self worth and their worldview on that, because it's okay if you're not right and you learn something new. But right now, you know, a lot of people are really charged that being right is having a stake in the ground or, you know, confirming something to themselves. And really, I have found that being wrong about a lot of things has helped me learn to get someplace right and to get someplace better and being really comfortable with that, because I was definitely one of those kids that like to have the right answer in school. You know, like, ooh, ooh, hand goes up. But, you know, over time, that doesn't get you connected to other people, and that when you want to show up to be right all the time instead of learn, you. You miss out on getting to really connect with people and getting to. To really grow. [00:15:18] Speaker B: Absolutely. So I think we might have gone into it a little bit, but I kind of want to dig this a little bit deeper because I just love the way that this is going here. Why is critical thinking so important? [00:15:29] Speaker A: I shared a comment on someone else's post. I believe it was Scott Lees, and he was sharing about founders and early stage companies. And I had brought up diversity of perspective, and the importance of that was being able to get diversity of perspective. And I meant it from a data point of being able to listen to other people about their behaviors or interactions, because that shows you patterns, it shows you something else. And so doing that research and perspective is, it helps you remove your own biases and helping make. Helping you make a better decision. And I'm one who I can get really excited about things and people really early on, and I need that diversity of perspective to go. Is this a direction that we want to head? Has everybody been considered? Is somebody else having a different experience? And then what are. What is that telling us? And it's data. It is giving us data about situations or things. And I think that perspective and diversity of it is important because you'll find that it tells a bigger story and it's often one that we wouldn't see if we didn't have someone else to shine light on where that chapter was going or, you know, what was really said or what was really done and getting an idea for where we didn't see something because we had our own position to check. [00:17:05] Speaker B: I love when you said listening to people and about their behaviors and patterns because I do think that people do have a specific language or pattern or what they do. Like, for example, people, like, for example, myself when I speak, I was born in a, in a part of Canada where it's very french speaking and we use it, we talk with our hands a lot and we talk with a lot of emotion because we get emotional. So we use, we talk with our hands. So, you know, it's, it's a pattern. And, you know, people, it's known, like, okay, older, you know, he's from that part of Canada. He talks with his hands. It's, it's, it's not a bad thing. It's normal. So I totally agree with you on that. And I don't think we spend time to listen to people enough as well. I feel like I think we need to spend time, and I always say this a lot, Candace, that we need to figure out because you met, we talked about earlier about us, people wanting to be right or you mentioned it. Sometimes we need to, when someone wants to speak to us or talk to us about something, sometimes they're needing feedback. Sometimes they're just needing you to listen. [00:18:20] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, such a good point. [00:18:22] Speaker B: So we need to, and I call it listen with pause, Candace. And that is just basically listening the whole time. And if they pause for 5 seconds, let them finish what they're saying and then once they're done, a lot of times they probably are good. They just want to vent. So it's just us to think of the person that's listening to figure out what do they need right now or, you know, do they need, they need to have some feedback or they need to, need to just listen because if we're listening and they don't want feedback and we're giving feedback anyways because we want to be right, then that's not good. And it doesn't make that person feel like they are seen, heard, valued or understood. [00:19:10] Speaker A: Yeah, you're getting into a really good point in terms of feedback with, you know, it's said feedback is a gift. Well, gifts have to be received and if somebody comes into a conversation needing to be heard and not needing feedback, that feedback isn't going to be received and. Right. It's not going to make someone leave the conversation feeling relieved or feeling like they were seen in the and heard and valued, like you said, because we have to have the awareness to pause and fight against all the instant gratification that we get on a daily basis and stop short cutting conversations and just really lean in to listen because our behavior is data. What we say is data, and a lot of times we're not listening to it. [00:19:57] Speaker B: Do you think that critical thinking is a skill? Like, is it something that somebody can be taught to critically think, or is it something that some people know how to do it and some people don't? [00:20:12] Speaker A: I'm really big on everything is learnable. I think you have people who maybe in their natural dispositions or gifts or talents may have some. You may have some people who just naturally are more analytical about something. Right. So possible. But I think for other people, it's just a matter of digging deeper and having an appetite for curiosity. I think critical thinking is really more about curiosity and the desire to really take in information. You know, pressure test credibility and look at, have we examined all sides? Do we have diversity of perspective here? Most of all, am I curious and am I willing to be wrong? And that's really tough, because we like to know things and we like to be right. [00:21:13] Speaker B: I love when he said appetite for curiosity. I just. I love that because I think you're absolutely right that some people are very curious and some people are, I could say I'm a very curious person. I like to find out things, and when somebody says something or to use a word that I don't know about, I like that I'm curious. So I'm gonna ask them, well, you know, explain that to me, or explain it to me in a way that, you know, I would understand it. Right, so in layman's terms, maybe. Right, so. But I'm always curious. But there's some people that are not like that. They just, you say something to them and they're like, okay, like, they don't, you know, they can't be, you know, I don't know if you want to say bothered, but they just, they don't have that interest meter of wanting to learn something further. And I always say that the moment that you don't ask questions and you're not curious and you're not willing to learn, that's when you get yourself in trouble. So the moment we say, you know, if we say that we know everything and we're not curious because we know it all, that's, I think when you get yourself into trouble. [00:22:18] Speaker A: Yeah, I think there's definitely those cases where you have people who, you know, I got it. You know, I don't need to learn anything or, you know, I'm relying on previous knowledge or experience and I'm not interested in a different application here. That definitely can happen. I think the interesting thing that I've typically seen and is, yeah, there's going to be a hard lesson or there's going to be something that's going to be like, oh, and maybe that helps them, or maybe they want to persist in being right or their path. But I think things, as I see with people, is that everybody comes to a place in their life where they're like, I should have thought deeper about that, or I wish I would have learned. Right. And then you have those things that either it's regret or something that was risky and didn't turn out the way you have planned and, or they have thought. And that's where you kind of had, like, you have a different kind of a learning experience, right. Where it's a higher risk or higher propensity for failure, which there's nothing wrong with. It's a matter of, again, going back to the other conversation about worth is are you going to stay intact when you have a higher or like a harder learning moment? Right. I think that's what makes it hard for some people is that they were so persistent in wanting to do it their own way or not wanting to learn or not wanting to be open to feedback or not be open to the critical decision making. [00:23:50] Speaker B: Right. So, I mean, when we're thinking about critical thinking or curiosity, I'm going to go off topic a little bit here, but it's kind of like, so a scenario where you're at work and the company says they want to put in a, a mental health wellness program in where they want everybody to take the course on mental health. And then you have these employees that are saying, well, I don't suffer from mental health, so why do I need to take it? So, you know, critical thinking, is that okay? Well, you may not deal with mental health or, you know, on a daily basis, but we talked about assuming earlier. Instead of assuming, take the course and understand a little bit better why susie has been off work for a couple of weeks. And instead of thinking, well, she just doesn't want to come to work. We want to have it in a situation where you're thinking critically and you're curious. Okay, well, why, you know, you may, obviously because of confidentiality, you're not going to know exactly what the case is, but just being curious to say and not assuming, saying, oh, well, maybe she's going through something. So let's, you know, let's be supportive while she's away and when she comes back, let's be super supportive with her when she returns to let her know that she's welcome and, you know, she's always part of the team and we're here to support her. So that's just my thought when you were kind of going through what you were saying. [00:25:30] Speaker A: Yeah. I think another place that really applies to along similar threads is the leadership place, right. Is the assumption about performance, employee performance, and when someone isn't performing and the immediate conclusion that people jump to typically based on feelings, right. And our feelings are indicators, they're not dictators. And so what we have to do, especially if we're in a position of leadership, so we have a responsibility to think critically. We have a responsibility to intake data about why or why not that person is performing in their role before we jump to what's the next move? Because if we're going to be compassionate in leadership, then we need to think critically about, well, does this person need upskilling or reskilling? Is there something going on personal where they can use some benefits within our job? Or is this, you know, not just someone doesn't want to do their job, you know, that isn't always the case. And the more we can human better at work, I think is thinking critically and taking those step backs of maybe you don't need it, right? But you don't know who does and you don't know what you might learn in the process to help someone who may need it and create a whole different experience in the workplace for them. [00:26:52] Speaker B: I just love when you said human better, that's a golden nugget right there. And I think that's super, super important for us all to remember that we need to human better in every instance as far as a workplace goes and to make it a safe work environment for everybody. What do you think the future looks like for critical thinking? [00:27:15] Speaker A: That's a really interesting question because I think you have so many people discussing AI and what the future looks like for AI in the workplace. But I think critical thinking is needed more than ever. I think it's something that's going to continue to be needed, especially as we break new frontiers or grounds within technology, then it's going to be a necessary skill, I think, to, to hone and develop and probably even apply to things on a day to day basis that maybe people didn't realize. Right. Critical thinking is not going to be something just needed within the workplace. It's going to be something needed within life. As we engage, especially as we go more global, we're more digitally transformed than we ever have been. And so I think critical thinking is going to be a skill that's going to constantly need to be refined and assessed and people looking for good information and how do we reach each other and understand points of view and again, get to that place of getting somewhere right together instead of just being right. [00:28:23] Speaker B: I love that. I love everything about that. If you could choose one word to describe yourself, Candace, what word would that be? [00:28:31] Speaker A: Oh, that's a tough one. [00:28:33] Speaker B: You could pick more than one. But I just, I will say one. But if you have a couple, that's okay. [00:28:38] Speaker A: Um, I would say it's probably at least what I hope to be more than anything is kind and kind isn't. You know, a lot of people conflate nice with kind. It's not, you know, they're, they're different things. Right. Kind, I think, is really focused on the being empathetic and not leaving it just at empathy, but being compassionate and looking for what is the next right move for people around you. [00:29:08] Speaker B: I love that word. For you. You are a super kind individual. I would probably say also, too, from your story and what you're looking to do for now and the future, I would definitely say not just for work, but for your family, I would say forward thinking. It would be something that I would be. It's two words, but that's what I would say for you because I feel like you're always thinking forward and not just thinking of what today is, but the future and what it's going to look like in a couple weeks and, you know, a couple months and stuff like that. I know some people don't like to think that way and we can't do that for everything, but certainly things. I think we do need to think like that and for planning. And from what I know of you, you do that, like I said, not just at work, but in your home as well. So that's what I would say for you as well. [00:30:04] Speaker A: Thank you. I appreciate that. I definitely think about things in terms of vision, and I think what we do today sows into tomorrow, essentially. [00:30:16] Speaker B: Absolutely. Absolutely. Any final thoughts today? [00:30:19] Speaker A: I think you just brought up some really good things about critical thinking and the strong correlations with leadership. And so I think that that's really the new place that we need to get to. There's five generations currently present within the workforce, and you have some generations coming up asking really hard, important questions about leadership. And I think to step in front of that and not just assume things about those generations and what they need, I think we've got to listen to the hard questions they're asking and really take, for anybody stepping into a leadership position, take responsibility for how weighty that kind of role and position is and make sure that you're applying critical thinking and you're making decisions compassionately and well researched and focused on taking multiple inputs of data and analyzing that and getting someplace good, getting someplace right with that responsibility. [00:31:21] Speaker B: Candace, I want to take the time to thank you for coming on today. You are someone that has impact wherever you are. So whether it's talk with somebody on the phone or on a video or working or your family friend that matter, you've had an impact on me very quickly just by a couple of conversations I look forward to. We're talking about forward thinking in the future, and I look forward to future conversations with you, future things that we could possibly work on together. That's what I'm thinking of because for me, you're super, you're a clear thinker. You speak very clearly, and I find you very innovative in the way that you speak. So I want to take your time to thank you for, for coming on today. When you said yes to me to come on, I was super thrilled and super thrilled to have that this happened today. So thank you very much. [00:32:15] Speaker A: Well, thank you, Andrew. I appreciate you and I appreciate your kindness. And, you know, you're sharing the story of your mother and what you're trying to build and how you're sharing your platform, especially with women, and giving them perspective and a platform to come on and share their point of view. And I think that's really something that would mean a lot to your mom. [00:32:40] Speaker B: I'm sure that she's looking down and I'm sure she sees it for sure. So I know it every day and she's not here, but I feel like she's here all the time. And she has very much an input in the everything that I've, you know, since I've started and what I want to continue to do for sure. So thank you for your kind words as well. On behalf of myself and my guest, Candace, I'd like to take the time to thank you all for listening. And until next time, be safe. And remember that if we all work together, everyone, we can accomplish anything. [00:33:19] Speaker A: You have been listening to let's be diverse with Andrew Stout. 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