Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Opinions expressed in this episode are personal. They do not necessarily reflect the views of this streaming platform.
[00:00:08] Speaker B: Good day, everyone, and welcome to another edition of let's Be Diverse. I am your host, Andrew Stout. This episode is dedicated to all my loved ones who supported me through this journey. Those who have left us will always be in our hearts and will never be forgotten. Today I'm delving into an interesting topic and it's something that I hear in my conversations a lot and it's ATS systems. So our topic is cracking the ATS systems. There's a lot of people who are trying to figure out how to crack them and we're going to delve into that today. And my guest to help me with this conversation is Irina Posen. Welcome to the show Arena. I am so happy and appreciate that you're taking the time to chat with us today.
[00:00:48] Speaker A: Absolutely. I'm so excited to be here, Andrew. Thanks for having me.
[00:00:52] Speaker B: You're very welcome. How are things with you? What's going on? What's new? Give us the. The deets, the tea, Give us it all. What's. What's going on in Irena's world?
[00:01:02] Speaker A: Oh, my goodness. So you caught me on a really exciting week because this week, we literally leave this weekend on a dream vacation that we have had in our minds for a very long time, my family and I, and we are off to Maui.
[00:01:17] Speaker B: No way. Yes.
[00:01:19] Speaker A: I'm so excited. We'll spend spent two weeks there and we went last for my husband and I's honeymoon.
[00:01:27] Speaker B: Nice.
[00:01:28] Speaker A: 11 years ago. Yes. And now we're gonna celebrate our anniversary out there, but bring our little guy along with us as well. And it'll also be my husband's birthday while we're out there. So I'm just so excited.
[00:01:42] Speaker B: Wow. That is pretty. Well, that's. That's a pretty good. That's pretty good stuff going on there. That. That's awesome. And I would be looking forward to that trip too. That sounds like super amazing. There's so many shows on TV that have been out that I've watched and it shows Hawaii and Maui and stuff. So it is just so breathtaking, that island. And I'm just so. I'm a little bit envious that you were going. Uh, but I know that you're going to have a great time and I'm sure it's a trip that's well deserved. So why don't we start off with you telling us a little bit about yourself and your why.
[00:02:22] Speaker A: Such a good question. I love the why. The why part. Especially so. Thank you for asking.
[00:02:28] Speaker B: You're welcome.
[00:02:29] Speaker A: So today, as you know, Andrew, I am a career coach, and I help people get to the next level in their careers. But my story really begins 15 years ago when I was just starting out my. My career, and I graduated from college taking an HR and business program. And then I was fortunate enough over my career to have some incredible roles.
I started out in a really administrative HR role, like many of us do, but I was just thrilled to have landed any role at all at the time. It was also like a dream job, right? I was like, okay, now I'm fully in this corporate working world. And it was so exciting. And from there, I was quickly promoted. So I've held coordinator positions, generalist positions, manager, senior manager roles at one of Canada's largest organizations, and then most recently, being the director of talent management and recruitment, which was also, of course, a dream job when I landed it. And it really relates to what we're talking about today, which is the ATS system, because in that role and in my past roles, I've designed hiring systems, and I've helped people to get to the next level in their career through coaching and building leadership programs and different coaching programs as well. And I bring an interesting perspective because I've been on all sides of the hiring table. So if you're a job seeker, my heart goes out to you in this market right now. And, like, I've personally been a frustrated candidate right? Where I've applied and been rejected for roles I knew that I was qualified for. I've also been went through, you know, final interview stages with multiple companies and didn't get the role at the end.
To also the other perspective of teaching recruiters how to recruit, building ATS systems, and kind of everything in between.
So fast forward to today, where I have my own coaching practice and I help people get to their dream roles, right? To land their dream roles in record time. That's the mission.
And, you know, we evolve, right? Each stage in our career brings a different perspective. We learn something new, and what we want also changes. And I truly believe, like, every moment in the last 15 years has brought me here to. To what I'm doing now, where I feel like the most aligned with my purpose and passion and. And all of those experiences have come to this point. But you asked about the why, which again, I absolutely love. And the reason I love this question so much was because my why has been similar, but also it got really, really clear in one day.
So something you might not know about me is that I was diagnosed with cancer a couple of years ago, and that experience has taught me more than I could have ever learned throughout my career.
And the biggest lesson was life is way too short to be in a role that you don't love a hundred percent of it or that isn't fulfilling. And I know that seems unrealistic or maybe not possible for many people, but it led to the biggest decision, which is that I wanted to make the biggest impact possible, that I wanted to focus more on what I loved, to do that 100% of the time. And once I was cleared and I was officially cancer free and I heard the best news, so I was very fortunate in my situation. My oncologist literally said with where I was at, like, this would never be. This type of cancer would never be an issue again. And I went into a phase where I evaluated every aspect of my life, as many of these moments will get you to do. And that led to me quitting my dream job and focusing on my purpose 100% of the time, which is like, so deeply rooted in the belief that everyone deserves a fulfilling career and where they're leaning into their strengths and their passions every day. And since then, I've helped over 300 people land their dream roles. And that's my why. And it stems from seeing people land roles that they never even thought possible. And to do that confidently, even in this challenging market where so many people are just focused on how do I get through the ats. But the mission is so, so much bigger than that.
[00:07:13] Speaker B: So I want to delve into this here. So first off, what an amazing story.
What I really love about that is that you are, you know, you're talking about being diagnosed with cancer two years ago, and I cannot imagine what that was like. I would never attempt to say what that was like. Nobody who's gone through it can say what they. That they know what it's like.
But what I do or what I can say is that what I see in hearing your voice is that when you talk about your why and what you're doing now, your.
Your passion changed throughout. And what it makes me think of is that so we all go through rough times, we all have good and bad times in our lives. And I'm not going to say that anyone's were their feeling of somebody having a rough time is any better or any worse than anybody else's. But what I can understand and what I will say is that you will be. You're so vulnerable and more understanding to people because of what you had gone through. And in your mind, you want to help them because you feel like I've gotten. I've gone through this or my obstacle, and I'm gonna help these other people or any of my clients get through any obstacle that they feel that they are in, because there's a lot of people out there who feel like they're in obstacles, that they're in a, you know, a sinkhole or, you know, they're in a. On a. On a mouse, and they're just spinning and spinning and spinning like a mouse in a. In a cage. And we all can do it. We all can get out of it. And you just. Your story just proves that you can. And all the clients that you've worked with, I'm sure, can say that they realize now that they can as well. So. So kudos to you for. For. For. For that story, and kudos to you for. For having the strength and. And building the strength and being able to have the strength to show people that they can and how important it is.
[00:09:33] Speaker A: Right. It's just like I've had experiences where, yes, the cancer is one thing, but I've had experiences where I was in toxic environments or that I knew I was ready for more, but didn't know how to get there or, you know, was rejected from that dream role or whatever it is. And everyone's experiences, to your point, everyone's heart is different.
But, yeah, I do believe that everything really does happen for a reason.
And this. This was another one of those things, and I'm so grateful for it now being on the other side. I'm so grateful because I now know how precious life is, and I know we spend the most of our time at work, and it's got to be good. It's just really got to be good.
[00:10:16] Speaker B: It does. It does.
So let's delve into this because we want to help people get through. Our topic today is ATS Systems. We want to get people to help them find the work and the joy that they. That they love and so that they can have passion for what they do. So let's. Let's delve into this a little bit here.
My first question to you is, what is an ATS system? Because a lot of people maybe don't understand it. And how does it work?
[00:10:44] Speaker A: Yes. Okay, so an ATS is an applicant tracking system. That's what it stands for. As HR professionals, you probably already know that, but it is needed now more than ever before.
So it's a software that helps companies to streamline their hiring processes to make it more efficient. And the reason this is so important today is because, as you know, there are hundreds and hundreds of applicants for each and every role. So whereas in the past, even when I think back to 2020, there just were not enough qualified candidates and there was a shortage of labor, and now we're on the other side, where there's just an abundance of applicants and humans are not able to successfully give each resume the attention that it deserves when there are so many applicants, it's just. It's often not possible. And this is the reality for many, many roles. So a human wouldn't just be able to do that on their own. So the ATS will automate certain aspects depending on the company. This looks really different. I do want to also say that many companies, even today, don't have an ATS because it's really expensive. They may have a portion where it's collecting resumes, but it doesn't actually pull in any AI or sorting or anything like that, but the. The traditional way, it's very expensive and very expensive to roll out and customize and things like that. But it automates the collection, sorting, and ranking of resumes based on qualifications and keywords. That's the ideal style date. And essentially, when a job seeker applies, their resume is then filtered through the ats, which then either matches what they're looking for in their algorithm or not. So you could be screened in or out at that point, and then resumes that meet that criteria, whatever the criteria is. So we'll get into that as well. Each company determines that is then passed along to a human. Right. And Maybe it's about 10% of applicants get passed on for that closer look. So the best matching. We'll get into this as well. The best matching resumes will then be passed on to often the recruiter, who then will spend time, often only seven seconds, looking at each resume and determining, you know, who they're going to call for that phone screen. Now, depending on the role and how many roles the recruiter may be hiring for, maybe they screen a lot more than this, and maybe they're screening every single resume that comes in. It really depends. So I don't want to generalize. Each company is a little bit different, and many companies have a completely custom hiring process. But today we'll just talk about what the. The most typical is.
[00:13:33] Speaker B: Okay. Okay. So when you talk about the keywords, would you say that those keywords are like, I know it's different for every company, but is it. Are the keywords or they kind of go with the they go with the mission vision values of the company. Like are do those keywords kind of go hand in hand or is am I way off base here?
[00:13:55] Speaker A: So it depends. The, the company will select their criteria. Often if we just talk about a traditional ats, it will match the job description. And this is where you hear applicants spending a wild amount of time customizing each and every resonate to each application and then they're still not having success.
And we'll, we'll break that down. I'm not sure Andrew, if you've heard of the latest trend, it's called white fonting. You heard of this? Yeah. So it's like people will put in all of the keywords like the entire job description into their resume in a hidden way and then hope that's how they're going to crack the code. Neither of these things are necessary or the way to go. It's just not, it's not the ethical way to get hired. And we'll probably screen you out for another reason at, at some point. So this is not what I recommend. I will share some tips though.
But yes, it's, it's leading to a lot of people trying to kind of crack, crack the code. And it, it really depends. Some companies will set specific criteria as well, like how many years experience they want.
Maybe they even want similar roles. So people that have only held, let's say leadership positions already will be screened in so very specific to the organization and what they're looking for. But if you're just using kind of not a lot of customization, it will match to the job description.
[00:15:22] Speaker B: And you mentioned, you said it's you that we need it more than ever. So I could just imagine you mentioned before that there's so many applicants. So if there's a job and that's posted, their companies can see like hundreds of resumes. So I imagine that it's helping them out because they're kind of helping them sift through it rather than if somebody or a team of people on HR team were to, you know, manually go through each resume, it probably would be a little bit time consuming for them. So it does help in that manner, I imagine.
[00:15:57] Speaker A: Exactly. So it just helps. In the initial stages, there's still kind of that human that takes over from reviewing all of the resumes. They could also go back of course and know select others if they didn't find what they were looking for in that kind of pile, let's so to say. And then also the humans will take over from the hiring process as well, but the, really, the big challenge right now in today's market is just being able to get your resume noticed.
[00:16:32] Speaker B: And so I would say that.
And we'll get into this a little bit further, but I'm going to say that when you're writing a, when you're sending out a resume or you're applying for a job, the. And I'm sure this is what you're telling your clients, because this is advice that I give to people as well all the time, is that we can't just depend on the resume. We have to kind of find different ways in order to get ourselves out there or be seen. So if we're just depending on the resume, you could send a hundred resumes out to a hundred companies and you could probably never. You might not get noticed from any of them. But we have to do little things as well.
[00:17:14] Speaker A: Yes. So a great strategy combines many things. Right. So networking a really great career story and pitch an online presence or your LinkedIn profile, that's like your online version of your resume. But the resume is so important. So I don't want you to skip this step either, because the resume not only helps you land that interview and get screened in, but it actually helps every single step throughout the process. Because what happens is you might meet the recruiter first and then you're meeting the hiring manager and then maybe the director of hr. And each time you're meeting a new person, they're pulling out your resume again. And even before they determine what your offer will look like, they're pulling it out again to compare you against maybe their top, like, runner up. So resume is so important, but it's, it's one part of a really good job search strategy.
[00:18:10] Speaker B: So we know why the system is out there, but how do we know that it's at its friendly or ATS friendly? Because, you know, we, you know, we just talked about it before that you can't be, you're not going to be seen. You know, you could have a resume, you could be a very good candidate. But if it doesn't go through the system properly and you get knocked off, you know, you're not going to be chosen. So is it, you know, how do we know it's. The resume is ATS friendly?
[00:18:42] Speaker A: Yes. So I love using data, real data, to answer this question. So when my clients come on board, we look at the data and I ask them a ton of questions. You can get out a pen and paper and do this right now as well if you're a job seeker. So the Data is going to tell you everything. So I want you to assess how your job search is going and are you making it past the ATS system right now? So let's say you've just applied to 100 roles, like your example, Andrew.
[00:19:13] Speaker B: Right.
[00:19:13] Speaker A: So how many interviews did you get? So from that hundred, did you get one interview? Did you get five? Did you get none? I would say with a really great resume, you should still be hearing back from about 10% of roles that you're qualified for that you're a good match for. So many people are seeing numbers that are a lot less than this. But what I know for sure is that you will continue to get the same results unless you make a change. So let's say you applied to 100 roles, you didn't hear from anyone. It's likely that the next hundred roles will look very similar.
[00:19:49] Speaker B: Right, Right.
[00:19:49] Speaker A: It's going to use the same patterns if you're using kind of large numbers like this.
[00:19:54] Speaker B: Right.
[00:19:54] Speaker A: And then what I want you to do is take a step back and evaluate what not be, what might not be working.
So I'll demystify two things, and these are like the two biggest resume tips that, that I have, that if you're a job seeker, you can apply to kind of change if you're not hearing back, if you're sitting here wondering, like, what could it be? I've applied to 100 roles, I haven't heard back. What could am I supposed to do? These are two things I'd love to demystify and share.
So the number one thing is that you don't need to customize each and every resume to the application. And the reason is it is a numbers game right now in terms of the market, and you will just be left exhausted updating each and every one. Right. And it won't be authentic either. You won't be able to do that in a quality kind of way that will actually get noticed and you'll likely continue to be screened out. I've spoken to hundreds of people that were doing this, and it's just not effective. And then we changed their approach.
[00:20:56] Speaker B: Right.
[00:20:57] Speaker A: What you actually need is an optimized resume for the role or level that you're applying for.
So we're going to break down what this looks like depending on kind of the type of HR role that you might be applying for. But many people will write their resumes like job descriptions, which is not getting noticed in this market. Right, Right. Not too many metrics. And I know as HR professionals, we're often like, well, I don't know the numbers. I'm not sure of the impact that I've had.
But we're going to talk about this. So I want you to create one version of your resume that's specific for the type of role that you're going for. So for example, if you're going for an HR manager role, there are set competencies that companies are looking for for those types of roles. So for that HR manager role, it's likely things like strategy and leadership for all of those manager, director and VP roles. Right. For maybe you're going for an HR generalist role. The keywords that you'll see time and time again across different companies are going to be fairly consistent. They're looking for things like employee relations, laws and regulations, performance management, building strong relationships or partnering with the. So I want you to take a step back and not for that specific application, but for the type of role that you're going for. And if your search is fairly specific on an industry like HR and then specific at a certain level, whether it's entry mid level or like more senior leadership roles, then tailor it to that level and that will help you save a ton of time. And then I want you to take the actual time to think about your top accomplishments and use metrics to define that, because that is what's going to get you noticed when the recruiters are spending those seven seconds looking through to see if they should call you. Right.
[00:22:53] Speaker B: I love when you mentioned data, because I will, I will firmly admit to everybody listening today and to you that I was not always a person who believed in the data. I was, I was all. It was always a person that one of my younger years of like, ah, you know, I don't know if I believe that or I what have you, but as I've gotten older and maybe it's the jobs that I've had and the opportunities that I've had, things I've seen and throughout my career. But I firmly believe in the data. And data is there for a reason and data really tells the truth in a lot of cases. And what you just said before about if you applied for a hundred jobs, you should hear back for about 10% of those rules. That totally makes sense to me. That is like right around the ballpark that I would think there's no way that you're going to hear back from 100 people if you sent out 100 resumes. So I know a couple people who have in the past who have applied for like 45 jobs and they didn't hear from any of them. So that just makes me, that this, these numbers just make me think, like, okay, there's something wrong. There's something that they're doing.
There's something that they're not tailoring so that they get past the ATS system is where I'm going.
[00:24:23] Speaker A: That's it. And so if you think about it, too, so many organizations don't even have an ats, so we're often blaming the ATS when maybe we don't look like a top candidate on paper. And you, very well, maybe. But is your, is your resume something you're truly proud of? Does it really depict all of the great things that you've done in your career story and your accomplishments? And there's a great way to do that. And, you know, it makes me think of what, what you just said makes me think of a client. So I had a client that was like, I'm not sure what's happening. You know, it's the market, it's the ATS system screaming me out. And she had applied for a role with a dream company and was quickly rejected. What ended up happening was they reposted the same role. She applied to it with her new resume, and she got an interview right away. The market had not changed. Her skills did not change. Her experience didn't change, her education didn't change, her name didn't change. We're often blaming all these external things, but the resume may be lacking and in certain ways. And, Andrew, if you don't mind, I'd love to share a free resource at the end as well with any listeners that might be like, yes, this is me. I'm just not sure what's, what's going wrong. I have a free resource where I break down, like, examples and all of the things related to job search and how you can make the change as well.
[00:25:50] Speaker B: I would love for you to do that, for sure.
I would love for you to do that, for sure. So we talked about, we, we talked about how we know if our resumes are friendly. What I, you know, what I want to know from you is are there any negatives or barriers when it comes to the ATS system? And the reason why I'm asking this, Irene, is because you and I talked a little bit about this before we started taping today. And one of the things that I'm noticing or in conversations I'm having is that companies are looking a lot at soft skills and, you know, is, you know, could the bear. Could a barrier be that we're, you know, the ATS system is not catching these soft skills, or are companies still out there not really focusing on the soft skills? They're more into the hard skills. I want, just want to get your opinion on that.
[00:26:55] Speaker A: You're bringing up such a great point. Like, like any new advancement, like any technology, like anything, there's pros and cons, right? Like, even at the beginning, we talked about a bad situation leading to a great thing. And I think there's pros and cons of the ats. You know, of course it's more efficient, but it can lead to some negatives. And there's two. One that you just brought up and one other. So first, yes, it can unintentionally screen out great candidates. So the way ATS systems work is that they look for the best match. So I always say that the easiest role to land is the one you've already had. So today, if your title is HR manager and you apply for an HR manager role, amazing. It's going to be highly likely that they'll call you back for that. But if you're looking to, let's say, level up to that director VP role now, or you're looking in a new country, or you're pivoting into HR for the first time, or you don't have a conventional career path, that presents a problem because the ATS looks for the best match. And you, although you might be a great candidate, you could do the role. Maybe you bring some diversity or some uniqueness to the role, and you just won't get noticed. So when we're leveling up, there could be an issue in standing out. So that's the first one. The companies may miss some great candidates that are highly qualified. And then the second systems don't prioritize anything but the technical matches, right? So there might be someone with, like, great potential, passion, a cultural fit. You'll. You'll never really know, right, because they're matching those technical aspects of the role. And often the best person doesn't always get the job. And the person that's the best match is not the best candidate. So that's where humans come in. Right? So no human is perfect either, of course. And we can't always tell someone's potential from a resume. And we all have unconscious bias as well. So there's no perfect system. And there's. There's some negatives as well as many positives at the same time.
[00:29:05] Speaker B: Because I, I could definitely, I could totally see that it's missing that it could miss stuff for sure.
And you know, again, like you said, nothing is ever perfect. You know, one thing that makes me think of, too, though, is that I know I've had lots of discussions, and I talk to a lot of recruiters, and I'm sure a lot of your clients, A lot of your clients would probably be in the case where they see a job and they look and see the job description, and they say, oh, you know, oh, they're looking for this, this, and this. I don't have that. And we're teaching them to see. Okay, well, no, but we're. You know, each job that you do, you learn something. So you can take what you've learned from one job to the next and you can transition it. Now, we're not talking about director jobs or what have you. We're talking about. We can even talk about HR roles, some rules that you can have. I mean, you can. I've known people that have taken. You know, they've been in sales, that have gone from sales to recruitment. So there's some stuff that you can transition from your sales job and you can recruit and you can transition it to recruitment or vice versa. But. But I can see that, you know, somebody could say, okay, well, you know, they're telling me to apply, even though they're looking for this, this, and this. And then they go through, and then they get an email back, like, two days later that, you know, and you know that it just didn't pass through the ATS system. So then you're like, okay, well, why did you tell me to apply? Because, you know, they're looking for something specific, and I didn't have it, and I knew it right from the, yeah, go. But I don't want to discourage people to still try. Right.
[00:30:48] Speaker A: That's it. And you never know what the hiring criteria is on the other end. And you actually don't know when you get that rejection if it was because of the ATS filtering you out or they just had an internal promotion and they posted it just for posting it. Like, we don't know the story often.
[00:31:05] Speaker B: Right.
[00:31:06] Speaker A: But I always encourage people to apply those transferable skills like you're talking about. Like, I've had clients that are teachers. Right. And they're transitioning into HR for the first time. Of course, they don't have HR experience, but they have training and development experience. They have so many of those transferable skills.
[00:31:22] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:31:23] Speaker A: But, yes, they will have a harder time in the ATS because it's not that perfect match. So they will also need to do some other things in their job search strategy as well.
[00:31:34] Speaker B: So, as you know, my, my podcast is called let's be Diverse. I'm huge in diversity.
What I want to know from you is how do organizations attract and retain diverse, diverse workforce using the ATS system? Because I can see that. Again, we. Again, I'm not bashing it, I'm not saying that it's not perfect, but I want to have the discussion because this is what conversations and things that I'm hearing with my ears to the ground of people who are not in HR, who are applying, and these are things that are being said to me, are being asked to me, and I'm replying to them in a certain way. But I want to get your opinion on that and, and see what you think on, on that. On that aspect.
[00:32:18] Speaker A: Yes. So you're right. One of the downfalls is the diversity aspect. Right.
That could be filtered out through the ATS system. And, you know, there's been some studies on the ATS systems having, you know, or AI in general having some bias in it. So there's a couple things that companies can do. So you could customize your ATS system to recognize a wide range of skills and experiences and not just matching keywords.
[00:32:47] Speaker B: Right?
[00:32:48] Speaker A: Right. So don't make it a perfect match to the job description. You may miss some great candidates.
And then I've actually seen this second tip put into practice at a really great organization that I worked at. But companies can set up tracking mechanisms for diversity candidates, right? So say you are short on women in leadership at your organization. You know that there's a gap. You know there's a gap you want to close.
So then you can have a hiring process outside of the ATS as well that ensures that each and every role that you post, especially a male dominated type of role, you have at least one female that you will be interviewing at the very least. Right. To make sure that you're not screaming out and leading to more bias. So there, there are different processes that you can put into place if you're thoughtful, if you're intentional and, and you really care about closing a diversity gap.
So when the ATS is used thoughtfully, it can be a really great, great tool in those early stages of recruitment. Right.
So, yeah, I would say to set up the ats, not in a way where it's just a perfect match to job descriptions, because that's not even always effective. We all know as HR professionals that job descriptions aren't even that well done. There's not a lot of thought that is put into them. So if you're looking for. It's like garbage in, garbage out, right? You're looking for a perfect match to something that wasn't even created in the best possible way. It's not going to lead to finding the very best candidate. So be open to candidates that have had a track record of success, whether it's in school with their grades and they don't have any experience, or whether it's from a different country or whether it's from a different industry and they're pivoting in. Right. So that can make them even more valuable than a perfect match or doing the exact same role as your competitor.
[00:34:52] Speaker B: Right. You just said it there. It's coming from. And that was my thought. I was going to mention it coming from another country. So, you know, in Canada, you and I are Canadian, but for American listeners as well, there's people coming from different countries through Canada and the U.S. and they're looking for work and, and a lot of them have gone to school or they have certificates or diplomas from universities where they're coming from. But when they come to Canada or the U.S. they, you know, it's. A lot of times it's, oh, well, you know, you need a little bit more, you know, it doesn't. Or it's not recognized or what have you. And so it's kind of. And these people want to work. A lot of these people are coming to, to another country or, you know, they're wanting to work. So, you know, it's. I know we need to set it up in a certain way, but, you know, I know this is something that is a concern for a lot of people that, you know, that we're not looking at this. And you mentioned women, too.
I'm, I'm a firm.
I'm a firm believer in strong leadership, women in leadership.
I've had some very strong leaders in my, in my lifetime that were, that were women and that I still admire them today. And I think it's important that we look at all these aspects as well. And I love when you said that the companies can kind of customize it. And I guess it's the, you know, the job of the leadership teams with those organizations to make sure that, you know, that that is set up that way.
[00:36:32] Speaker A: Exactly. If diversity is your goal and, you know, you have a gap and your hiring process is contributing to that gap, then you can set up processes, whether you have an ATS system or not, to make sure that, you know, there's a checklist even that the recruiter has of what they're looking for, that may be a little bit outside of the box, too.
[00:36:54] Speaker B: So in closing, what is one takeaway that you want our audience or listeners to get from this episode?
[00:37:04] Speaker A: There is so much negativity right now in the job market. So if you are a job seeker and you're looking for your next opportunity, don't give up. It's absolutely possible and you don't have to settle and you don't have to look at outrageous ways of trying to crack the code for the ats.
But my biggest piece of advice would be to go back and evaluate how your search is going. Right? So don't continue to do what you know has not worked for you so far. So if you've been looking, I hear. I was just at a conference last week in Toronto, Andrew, actually an HR conference on AI. We talked about ATS systems the whole time. I sat next to someone who told me she was looking for her HR role for the last two years.
And I'm like, oh my goodness, if you've been doing something that's not working for the last two years, that's so heartbreaking, that's terrible. It's obviously taking, you're taking a hit in your confidence as well as a candidate. But don't continue to do what's not working time and time again and wasting your precious time. Because also, as we talked about earlier, time is our most precious asset and we don't want to waste it with things that aren't working right. So I would evaluate where you're at, what's working, where you may need support, where you're feeling stuck. And again, if you're in this position and you're like, that is me. I've just been applying into a black hole. I've applied to 100 roles. It's hard to get noticed. Then I'd love to share a free resource with you, and it's a masterclass where I cover a ton of tips on how to get your resume noticed in this market, how to land that interview, and really how to fast track your role. So feel free to send me a DM on LinkedIn, on Instagram. You can always message me there and I'd be super happy to pass it along.
[00:38:50] Speaker B: I love what you said there and I want a second and I want to piggyback on what you said there. And if I had a call to action on this episode, it would be, it's okay.
As a, as leaders, we feel that a lot of leaders feel that it's, it's, it's not cool or not that they're not power, in a power position if they're, if they're vulnerable. And it's. So I want to say that it's okay to be vulnerable. And if you're in a situation like this, if you are like the lady you said Irina sat beside you and they've been two years looking and she might have been in a leadership role before, it's okay to ask for help. Like, there's so many people out there that would be willing to help you. Like you just said, you had a, a free service. There's so many people that have these free services. And if you want to expand on it, there will be, you know, and you have the funds to do it, then, then do it. But don't sit back and do the, and, and, and continue to go in that, in that route and be in that rut, because it's going to continue to be the same thing. And so it's all, like I said, it's okay to ask for help.
There's nothing wrong with it. No one's going to bad mouth you. No one's gonna think low of you or anything less of you. We, they actually will think even more highly of you and admirable of you that you were strong enough to seek the help.
I want to take the time to thank you for coming on. This has been such an amazing conversation. You were such an inspiring individual.
I noticed that from the second that I met you. I had a couple conversations and you just.
Everything that you do, everything that you say, everything you write, everything you put out there just totally makes sense and it just resonates with me and I can see why people resonate with you and why people just gravitate to you. So I thank, thank you so much for taking the time to, to chat with us today.
Again. You're a real inspiration to everyone, including myself and I'm so happy to have you as a connection of mine. For sure.
[00:41:07] Speaker A: Andrew, thank you so much for having me and thank you for doing this day in and day out. You're putting great content out there yourself and it's very inspiring as well. So thank you so much for having me and, and I look forward to chatting soon.
[00:41:20] Speaker B: Absolutely. On behalf of myself and my guest Irene, I would like to take the time to thank you all for listening today. And until next time, be safe. And remember, everyone, that if we all work together, we can accomplish anything you.
[00:41:38] Speaker A: Have been listening to. Let's be diverse with Andrew Stout to.
[00:41:42] Speaker B: Stay up to date with future content.
[00:41:44] Speaker A: Hit subscribe.
