Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign opinions expressed in this episode are personal. They do not necessarily reflect the views of this streaming platform.
[00:00:14] Speaker B: Good day everyone and welcome to another edition of let's Be Diverse. I am your host, Andrew Stout. This episode is dedicated to all my loved ones who supported me through this journey. Conflict is something that may occur between people or within groups in all kinds of situations.
Due to the wide range of differences among people, conflict can signal difficult situations within a workplace or within leadership. It is important to understand the way conflict is handled and how will determine whether the results are productive or devastating.
Today our topic is how conflict can be scary and my guest today is Ashley Cox. Now Ashley Cox, chrm CP is a Founder and CEO of Sprout hr, a boutique and HR consulting firm that advises women owned businesses on how to hire and lead profitable, sustainable and impactful teams with confidence, ease and fun.
At Sprout hr, Ashley and her team focus on value based hiring, compensation and international leadership and amplifying impact.
They revolutionize the do it yourself mindset to one of exponential growth, hiring the right people and the right way scales businesses electrifies the bottom line making women run companies thrive. A certified HR professional with over 17 years experience, Ashley has worked with businesses nationwide from local brick and mortars to online agencies to multimillion dollar national and international companies.
She was a top recruiter and leadership expert with J. Crew and Kroger where she hired and developed everyone from the newest hourly employees to C suite level executives.
She is also an SME which is a subject matter expert for the world's leading HR organization, Society of HR Human Resources Management and an explanator for various thousand employee organizations. She's also the author of her debut book and she also hosts Impact Ripple podcast, Transforming your Stories and guides women to overcome their stories, hold them back so that she can help them develop and become confident and courageous leaders who create resounding impact in the world. Now this person, Ashley Cox is one of the nicest, compassionate, empathetic people I have ever met. I feel that she is a true dynamo and she is a perfect example of what a true genuine person is.
Welcome to the show. Ashley. I am such a fanboy of yours and it is honestly an honor and a pleasure to have you on as a guest today.
[00:03:10] Speaker A: My goodness, Andrew, what an introduction. You can't make me cry. We've got to have a whole podcast conversation here, but thank you genuinely and deeply from the bottom of my heart. Thank you so much for your support and for being such a fanboy and friend. And I'm Absolutely thrilled to be here and an honor to be on your podcast today.
[00:03:31] Speaker B: It is an honor to have you. We talked to earlier before we started taping. I had asked you when I first started out and I know the timing just didn't work out for you. And I remember asking you if it was a complete no, and you said, no, just not at this time. And I always had you in the back of my radar and I always said, I'm not going to pester her, but I'm going to ask her and eventually, maybe one day, she's going to say yes. And the day that you actually said to me in an email, let's do it, I think I almost fell off my chair because I was so excited that you said yes. I'm in awe a little bit that you are here and I'm so excited about having you and our conversation.
[00:04:16] Speaker A: Thank you. I feel the same way and I'm grateful for your persistence and I'm excited to be doing this. So let's do it.
[00:04:23] Speaker B: How are things with you? What's new in Ashley's world?
What's going on? How's work? How is everything?
[00:04:31] Speaker A: Oh, goodness. There's been a lot going on over here, but things are going really well. We're working on some really exciting projects at Sprouthr and getting ready to launch season three of the Impact Ripple podcast, which we're really excited about. My sister just had a baby, so I'm actually traveling right now as we're recording this podcast episode, and I'm going to go see her tomorrow in our new little niece, which, fun fact, we actually have 12 nieces and nephews, so this is our newest addition. And of those 12, three of them are great nieces. So we've got a really big family and lots of folks to love, and that's just really important to me. And one of the reasons why I love having my own business and getting that freedom and flexibility to make my family a priority.
[00:05:16] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. I think it's so important, and I think over the pandemic, I know a lot of people realized what was important to them and what wasn't. And then things changed and then everyone realized, hey, I don't want to go back to the way it was before. I like how it's been for the last couple of years. Even though I've been stuck in my home most of the time, I like to be around my family and spend time with my family. I've gotten to enjoy spending time with them. I enjoy being home with my kids to do homework and make supper and. Or bake cookies before dinner or enjoy getting them at school and dropping them off and picking them up. So I think people realized all these things.
[00:05:57] Speaker A: Absolutely. I heard something several times now where people have started saying, I work to live. I don't live to work. And I think that's really important, especially as employers and HR professionals, to remember that this is not someone's entire life.
And not to get too far into our conversation, but I think that can be a contentious point. So I'm sure we'll pull that back around as we start to talk about conflict today.
[00:06:22] Speaker B: Oh, for sure, for sure.
So I'm glad to hear that everything is going well with you. I'm glad to hear that you got away, had some time, and now you're going to spend some time with your sister. I love that. I think family is so important.
So thank you for sharing that with us. Before we begin, I always have a fun question to ask my guests to get things going. I'm so nervous.
[00:06:45] Speaker A: I'm so nervous. Okay, I'm ready. I got my game face on. I'm ready to do it. Bring it on. Bring it on, Andrew.
[00:06:52] Speaker B: So your question is, Ashley, if you had the ability to stay the same age forever, what age would you choose and why?
[00:07:02] Speaker A: Oh, that's a fantastic question.
Okay, let's see. I just turned 40 this year, the big four zero.
And at first I was really nervous thinking, like, oh, all the perceptions that people have, especially of women at 40. Am I going to be old and curmudgeonly and I'm going to fall out of favor with people, whatever the things are. But I have found a whole new level of confidence and I think, sense of self this year that I would stay 40.
[00:07:38] Speaker B: Okay. I love that some people cringe at their ages. So I love the fact that you're loving being 40 and that you feel good. I think if we want to feel like we're 80, then we're going to feel like we're 80s. I don't feel my age as well. I'm in my 50s and I don't feel my age at all.
[00:07:56] Speaker A: I would have never guessed. You definitely don't even act like you're. I would have thought you were like 25, 30.
[00:08:03] Speaker B: Oh, well, I appreciate that. I definitely am not 25, that's for sure. I wish sometimes I was, but it is what it is. I love your answer. I appreciate it.
[00:08:13] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I think it's really cool because I've spent the last decade really pouring into myself and Focusing on wellness and just learning more about myself and taking care of myself mentally and physically and emotionally and all those things I think that we don't have the advantage of. When you're in your 20s, maybe your body functions a little better. I'd take my 20 year old knees again. But as far as like personality and who I am in this world and what I'm here to do, totally would take today over 20 or 25.
[00:08:47] Speaker B: Oh, for sure, for sure. You answered that question great. I love the fact that you dug in there. You were ready for it. So I just love your answer. Thanks so much for having fun with me today, Ashley, on that.
Why don't we start off with you telling us a little bit about you and your story.
Yeah.
[00:09:05] Speaker A: So I have been the owner, founder and CEO of Sprout HR for six, seven years now. A little over seven years.
And before that I spent about a decade in corporate hr. So as you mentioned in the introduction, J. Crew and Kroger is where I spent the majority of my time.
And I started as an hourly employee with Kroger when I was in college and was going for my degree in management and marketing.
And I had talked to my manager one day and he was like, ashley, have you ever thought of going into management with Kroger? And I was like, no, I didn't even know that was an option. Tell me more. And so he talked to me about going into into the management program, started training me all around the store. So I got so much wonderful experience before I ever became a manager at Kroger. And when I did move up into that management position, I was assigned to this really massive store. It was one of the biggest in our district.
And all of the things that I was really gifted at had to do with people.
I was really great at hiring, just very intuitively had a really good knack for people.
I loved training, I loved making sure people had the tools and the skills and the knowledge that they needed. I loved creating and implementing new programs and was often featured in a lot of different ways in the company. And so that is how I accidentally ended up in hr. The company came to me one day and they were like, hey, we want you to do this project.
You're going to have eight weeks to hire 350ish new employees for a brand new store that we're opening up. And you have to find them, interview them, hire them, background check, drug test, get uniforms ordered, get them trained. And I was like, 25, 26 at the time. And I was like, okay, let's do it. I had no idea at hiring in that capacity. I'd hired maybe two or three people at the same time before that and all of a sudden had this massive project my hands and one hourly part time employee who'd never had any kind of experience with hiring that was assigned to me. So that's how my introduction to HR really began and how I ended up in the field that I'm in. I not to brag, but like I killed that project totally, absolutely.
[00:11:27] Speaker B: Just off the wall.
[00:11:28] Speaker A: People were like, what? And so they invited me to come and, and be part of the HR department after that. And that's how I got into hr, totally by accident and not on purpose at all. But after I spent about 10 years in corporate HR, my husband's job kept moving us around and I thought I've always wanted to have my own business. And the opportunity came for me to start my business when we moved to Tennessee, which is where we currently are in the US And I thought small businesses could really use the knowledge and the expertise that I've gained over the last 10 years. I wonder if there's a place for me to do this work. And there was nobody that I knew of at the time providing HR consulting services to particularly small women owned online businesses.
And when I got into it, people were like, where have you been all my life? We don't have any of this information. They were making really illegal decisions and doing some stuff that I was like, you are going to get in trouble for this. Let me help you so that you can avoid that. Because as a small business you don't have an HR department.
And it's been so such a gift to be on this journey and to be able to help these businesses and especially women owned businesses who are often underfunded, under resourced and to be able to come in and take some of that burden off their shoulder. And specifically in relation to our conversation today, Andrew, how to deal with conflict, how to have those hard conversations with employees. And my whole goal is how do we proactively prevent those from even needing to happen.
So it's exciting for me to be here today and talk with you and with the audience about this topic because it is prevalent and anywhere you have people, you're going to have conflict.
[00:13:14] Speaker B: Yes, I totally agree with you. Some of the stuff that resonated with me that you said was, I just think that it's so amazing that you, first of all, you said you weren't going to brag. You killed it. I could totally see you jumping in there and killing it for sure. I could totally see that. One of the things I do see, you talked about new businesses.
One of the things I think is that a lot of businesses come in and they think that they, the owner comes in and they're doing everything at the same time or they're doing everything at one time. And I think a good business person or leader needs to understand and I think I've heard you say this many times before, you need to figure out what the things that you're good at and the things that you're not good at, get some help. Because if you don't get the help, then you're getting yourself in a situation where you're not knowing what you're doing and you're answering questions of stuff like you just talked about legal stuff. You're answering stuff that you may not know the answer to and you're giving a wrong answers. And like you said, that's what's going to get you in trouble. So I think a good leader is one that realizes, hey, I need help and I need to get it because I just don't have the answer or I need to get the answer. I can't tell you. I don't know what the answer is, but I'm gonna find out and I may get back to you. Instead of giving a whole spew on stuff that you have no idea the answer for.
[00:14:47] Speaker A: Yeah, I think one of the most important skills that we have to have as leaders is self awareness.
Without self awareness, we find ourselves wading into unknown waters and managing tasks that we don't need to be managing. But when we have that level of self awareness, we can realize and own up to the limitations that we have. And that is okay. We all have limitations.
And if there's something going on in your business or in your company that you're really not super confident about or unsure about.
Like you said, Andrew, being able to reach out for help, reach out for support. Who can I go to? Who can I ask? Who can I delegate this to? And just letting the experts handle it.
[00:15:30] Speaker B: And I have talked about this many times, especially on a few of my podcast episodes. I think a lot of leaders are afraid that if they get help that someone is going to step in because they know how to do that and they're going to lose their level of seniority. And I think you have to understand that somebody's coming in, they're helping you, but they're working with you to help the company be profitable and productive, not come in and swipe Stuff under your feet and say, okay, I know more stuff than Ashley does, so I'm going to sweep under her feet and I'm going to take what she's got and take her position. That's not how it goes. A good leader will understand that, I think.
[00:16:15] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I always say let go. To grow, you've got to loosen up the reins. You've got to give away some of the control and some of the power.
And when you do that effectively, that just means that everybody gets to win, everybody gets to rise, everybody gets to be successful. And the more we hold on to control and have it in a chokehold, the more we all suffer and the less we all get to win together for sure.
[00:16:40] Speaker B: Again, our topic today is conflict. I think it's a very important topic. What I would like for you to do with us is to tell us in your mind what conflict actually is.
[00:16:53] Speaker A: That's such a great question. And I think that the way that we can best understand conflict is that it's when two people have differing opinions about something. And that may mean that we have different ideas, we have different beliefs, we have principles or something that are bumping up against each other. And one of the things that I believe is so misunderstood about conflict is that not all conflict is bad.
In fact, the most innovative, creative, forward thinking, productive, profitable organizations and companies manage conflict really well.
And because they find value in it. Because when we have differing ideas and we can come to the table and talk about them in a healthy, productive manner, then we can all get better. Conflict is any two people that get together and have different ideas, which is basically all the time.
[00:17:48] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. 100. I think what happens, I think when people feel so strongly, some people will come in and they'll be like, I'm right on this. This is my opinion. Sometimes you don't want to hear the other person's opinion. This is my opinion, and I am right about this. And you're gonna see down the road that I am right. Especially if the organization or team decides to go away from that particular person's thoughts, they say, yeah, you're gonna see down the road that I am right. And then I'll be able to tell you that I told you so, which is probably not the right thing to do. But a lot of people, that's how they think.
[00:18:27] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And I think a lot of times when leaders think about conflict, they think about people arguing and fighting and being contrary, like you're describing, and blood pressure is up and tens are high and we think about conflict in a very binary or one sided way and it really is so much more robust than that. And we have to approach conflict as what is this particular conflict about and who's involved and how are they interacting with each other or how are they interacting with me before we blow it into something that it's maybe not.
Because there's a lot of situations that I've seen where I'm like, that person just had a different idea and you completely blew them off and ignored them and of course they got upset or maybe you said something that didn't set well with them, or maybe we could have said something a little bit better or just given them an opportunity to voice their opinion, to be heard, to feel validated. And when we don't give people that opportunity, of course their defenses go up. Of course, course they start lashing out and acting in ways that maybe are very contradictory to their personality or their normal behavior. Because now we've put them on the defensive and they're in that shields up mode. So it's also very important for us to be aware of how we're approaching conflict when it is happening in the workplace.
[00:19:55] Speaker B: I call that diversity of thought. So basically people having different thoughts on different things or a different way of doing something, different way of doing a process or different way of doing something. So for me, when I think of conflict, I think of diversity of thought.
[00:20:12] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:20:13] Speaker B: Why do you think conflict scares people?
[00:20:15] Speaker A: I think it comes back to what I mentioned just a moment ago about people thinking that conflict is, is always going to be hard, it's always going to be contentious, it's always going to be negative. And so I think a lot of times too it comes from our past experiences. Corporate culture is notorious for being a contentious place. And most of us have been in situations where we've gotten into conflict with a boss or a co worker or a peer, maybe a family member, a friend. And we're not taught how to handle conflict. Honestly, if you want to add something to school curriculum that would be massively helpful to actual adult human beings, it would be conflict management, conflict resolution, conflict deflection or diffusion. Conflict avoidance, like all of these different things would be supremely helpful because anywhere you have two or more people, you are going to eventually experience some sort of conflict. We all cannot get along a hundred percent of the time and avoid any kind of disagreement, any kind of differing opinion. And we don't want that because we don't want to be just a stagnant status quo. Everybody says and does and thinks the same thing. We'd be a bunch of little robots. And that's no fun. So I think people are really scared of conflict because they don't know how to handle it. They don't know the right things to say or to do to diffuse it. They don't know the ways that they can take the conflict and make it productive. And so it's. It comes down to just an avoidance at that point. It's, whoa, I'm just going to bury my head in the sand and pretend this isn't happening. But unfortunately, that just makes it worse, usually. And what was maybe just a small issue now becomes a snowballed problem that is maybe being taken to management or to human resources, or maybe there's severe consequences to unmanaged conflict. Right.
[00:22:18] Speaker B: And I think too, when you're leader of a team, I think you have to understand your environment a little bit and your team.
And there could be people that grew up, like you said, working in different environments. I would even go back as far as how the person grew up and the environment that they grew up in by understanding that person and what they've gone through. And also, I feel like some people are very good at bringing up something to have a discussion, have conflict. They're good at saying, hey, do you have a little bit of time? Or something I'd like to talk to you about. And there's people that just avoid it because they're afraid of what the outcome could be. So they just avoid it at all costs. They don't even tell their leader or their manager. They just say, you know what? I'm just gonna leave it. It'll get better down the road, or we'll figure it out down the road. But in reality, we need to have those tough conversations sometimes for sure.
[00:23:17] Speaker A: Absolutely. Absolutely. It's remembering that we are humans doing business with humans, and every single one of us has a different background, a different story, a different lived experience, a different upbringing, like you mentioned, a different education, a different home life. There's so many factors that come into creating a human person, and they bring all of that to work. We're not machines. We're not robots. Back in the Industrial Revolution is when this whole idea of don't bring your personal stuff to work began. And we've perpetuated that for the last 100 years. And like we were talking about a moment ago about the pandemic, really highlighting some of these things that we're no longer going to tolerate as employees.
Part of that is I'm no longer going to come into a work environment where I don't feel seen, I don't feel heard, I don't feel validated, I don't feel supported. And so as leaders, we have to be really mindful that you can't turn off your personhood when you come to work and just turn on a work version of you. The whole person comes to work and we have to take care of that whole person and realize that person is very complex. And it may take us a few goes to figure out what is their conflict style, Are they avoidant, are they headstrong, do they weighed somewhere in the middle and how do we approach that person? Are they like just give me the facts, just tell it to me straight or, or do they need a little softer approach and we might have to nurture that a little bit more. But it's really fascinating, I think just from a psychology standpoint and the way that the workplace is evolving, especially just the last two or three years, how leadership styles are going to have to change and adapt to the workers that are in the workplace and coming into the workplace over the next decade or so.
[00:25:09] Speaker B: Yeah, I read somewhere the other day that if you were not a empathetic leader in the next five years, you're going to have a hard time. Because candidates, when they're applying for a job, they're looking for so much more. They're not just asking what the salary is, they're asking what's the work life here? How do the employees get along? Do you guys have an anti bullying policy?
What's your mission, vision, values? They're asking all of this stuff. And the other point that you said before about work life balance, I really have a hard time with that one, Ashley. I really feel it. It's very hard. You can't do that. I've actually started about a month ago. I don't call it work life balance. I call it integrated life balance because you're integrating your home life and your work life. You can't separate the two.
One is involved with the others. I've grown to, not negatively, but I've grown to push aside personally that work life balance word. And I've started using integrated life balance.
[00:26:18] Speaker A: Oh yeah, I could talk about this all day long. I threw out work life balance probably 10 years ago because I always associated it with walking a tightrope. Have you ever walked a tightrope? A balance beam? Just tried to walk a straight line on the pavement, dude. It's hard.
You have to use your core muscles and you shake a little bit to the right. And then you shake a little bit to the left and you're trying to stay on this line or on this rope or this beam or whatever it is. And that's hard and it takes a lot of effort. And sometimes I think, like you, that it's more of an integration. I usually refer to it as work life harmony, because sometimes the melody takes the front seat and sometimes the instrumentation comes in and there's different parts of the song that are playing. And that's like how life and work are really happening in real life. Sometimes work has to take the front seat and you got to give it more focus and more energy and more time. And then there's sometimes where life takes over and life happens and we have to be more present and more focused there. And I think that it really is going to be super important for employers to look for ways that they can create more work life integration, like you said, because it also looks very different from. For different people in different seasons of their life as well.
[00:27:37] Speaker B: Absolutely.
So I think we might have talked about it, but I'd like to go a little bit more in depth on this. What role do leaders play when it comes to conflict in an organization?
[00:27:48] Speaker A: Oh my gosh, so many roles. Starting primarily, my focus is always on how can we be proactive in preventing conflict, because so much conflict comes from silly things that aren't addressed or things that we could have been a little bit more mindful of or thoughtful of in advance, and things that are really super basic when it comes to taking care of people and it's giving them an opportunity to be heard and asking for their feedback and checking in with them. I always recommend to my clients and to folks that I talk to and on podcasts and things like this, where if you have a super large team, you might not be able to have a one on one conversation with every single employee every single week. But you could meet with department heads or line leaders or somebody that's in charge of a larger group of people. Because I think what comes out in those one on one conversations is just magic. That's the opportunity that they get your full undivided attention. Because that's where you need to turn off your email, put your phone on silent, and really pay attention to this person that's sitting in front of you because they will share things with you in those one on one conversations that they might not be comfortable sharing with you in a slack or a team's message on email, in a team meeting, in some sort of group environment that people need that one on one time to feel safe. And Andrew and I were talking just before we hit record on this about creating safety in the workplace. And that's so important for us to be able to really avoid so much conflict and so much contention that can happen within our team. So that would be my, my first thing is first all, like, how are we proactively avoiding the potential for negative conflict, backlash, the fighting or the anger, the strongly emotive type of conflict. And then the other side of that, in my opinion, is how do you teach your people to have healthy and productive conflict? And that's going to take some, that's going to take some skills training. Because like I mentioned before, we're not taught how to handle conflict. We're not taught how to deal with it, how to address it, how to diffuse it, how to manage it confidently or productively. And so I think if there's an area that you could really find a lot of value in, it's either find someone like me or like another professional who can help you develop conflict skills or take a workshop, go to a seminar, read a book. There's a thousand different ways that you can educate yourself on better conflict management and conflict competency. Because you're going to have conflict. I promise you, if you lead a team of people, you will have conflict. There is no getting around it. And the better that you know how to deal with and manage and handle that conflict, the better you'll be able to lead through it and lead your team through it. And when you can teach your team how to diffuse their own conflict situations, then you are on easy street, my friend, because that is the gold right there.
[00:31:02] Speaker B: Absolutely. I love everything that you packed in there. I think communication is key as well.
And I love when you said paying attention to one on ones. I talk about this a lot. Leaders, I think need to.
When you're having a one on one or when you're talking with your teams, there is a time where you're listening to give feedback and you're listening with pause. In other words, not needing to give feedback, you're just listening to listen. And I think if you're going to be a good leader of a team, I think you need to figure those two out.
Because somebody doesn't always, when they're having conflict with something, it could be they're talking about this, oh, I had this discussion with this person and it went crazy and went over and above what I thought, when it may not even be that, it might even be something else, but something else that happened, triggered that conflict, triggered Everything. So I think just figuring out what is what and then once you've defined it, then trying to pay attention or learning which is which and figuring out your people as well.
[00:32:17] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:32:18] Speaker B: Why do you think leaders fail to resolve conflict?
[00:32:22] Speaker A: I think it comes back to really not having the skills to handle conflict and manage it. And I think that people are scared. We've talked about this a little bit. People are scared of it. And I think especially too that people are scared of saying the wrong thing, getting in trouble, having an issue with legal. And this is another perfect reason and example for why it's important to get some conflict skills training. So that way, what are the legal pitfalls and potholes that I could hit along the way so that I could avoid them? Because here's the thing, being worried and scared about it isn't going to help you. Having the right skills in place is, is going to help you immeasurably. And when you have the right skills in place, you're more confident, you're more calm and collected, you can address it in an efficient manner instead of spending hours, days, weeks, months, years, sometimes avoiding the conflict, letting it snowball and turn into a much bigger problem, which could create turnover, it could create lower morale on your team, which could lead to errors, it could lead to absenteeism and tardiness. All the things that as HR professional we know are things that we want to avoid because those are our job to help our, our companies to maximize those, to increase attendance and increase morale and increase employee engagement. And we can't do that by being in avoidant behavior. So learning that skill set will really help you make strides and make really big improvements in all of these other areas that we're being challenged to as leaders, as HR professionals, as people working with people every single day.
[00:34:07] Speaker B: I love all that. I had a friend of mine years ago who was working for a company and she was going through conflict with another co worker and she went to go and see a leader and she was explaining to the leader her side of the conflict. And the leader didn't really come out and say it, but they, from what she said to me, almost pushed it aside. In other words, it wasn't important to them. So I think a leader has to understand just because the conflict or what they are upset about may not be a big deal to them, it might be a big deal to any team member.
[00:34:49] Speaker A: It's absolutely a big deal.
Yeah, that's such a good, it is a good call out because if it's important to my team member, it's important to me. And if that person doesn't feel heard or validated or that you care, they're going to shut down. And we've all heard about quiet quitting. This is not a new thing. It just has a fancy new label on it. People have shut down for years because they're disengaged, because they feel like their manager doesn't care, because they don't feel like they're being heard at work. And if you're dealing with a lot of quiet quitting right now, we have to reflect again, comes back to self awareness. You have to reflect on what is my role in this, how could I have potentially contributed? How can I undo some of this? How can I be more engaged, how can I be more engaging with my team so that they do feel like when they have an issue, that it's also important to me.
[00:35:45] Speaker B: And I mentioned quiet quitting. I could think back years ago, like in my 20s, working for places, and I saw quiet quitting and I saw now they're even talking about loud quitting. I saw both of those. Just nobody was talking about it. The thing that I love now today is that there wasn't a name for it, it was just done. Now there's a name for it. So that means that people are talking about it. And the more that people talk about it, the more leaders will understand what's happening and the better they're going to be able to understand that they need to communicate and understand what's going on with their employees and what conflict they're having. Because years ago, I can remember my 20s, somebody just taking off their uniform, their shirt, tossing it on the counter, I'm out of here. I've had enough.
That's quiet quitting. But nobody talked about it back then. I asked what happened and Roger just decided he didn't like it anymore. He was frustrated, so he quit. But yeah, now there's more talk about it. So now it's more out there, which is great, I think.
[00:36:53] Speaker A: I know that the Internet can be a blessing and a curse, but where it can really help leaders is I know it can be scary to go out there onto different forums and different social media platforms and hear what people are saying about their companies and their bosses and their work environments. But that is a treasure trove of information.
If you want to learn what upsets people, go look at the Internet. If you want to learn what people want or need to feel supported in their role, go look at the Internet because they are sharing profound information out there. And if you can look at that and say, oh, you know what, I did that last week.
That shows such a degree of self awareness and ownership that you can take back into your role and say, okay, you know what? I realized I was doing this thing and that's probably not really helpful. So here's what we're going to do instead. People will have so much greater respect for you if you can come to the table and say, you know what? I've been doing this. I realize this might be harmful. This might not make you feel very safe. Here's what we're going to do instead. They're just, they're going to be able to respond to that and know that you're a leader who listens, who cares, who pays attention and who takes action when action is needed.
[00:38:12] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely, for sure. And I am someone who reads Glassdoor. I'll go on and I'll go on a company and I'll read reviews just for fun and experience.
And I read to see what people say about certain companies.
And it's interesting to me. You're absolutely right. If you want to know what conflict you're having with employees or why you lost 100 people in six months, that's the perfect spot to go and look. Because a lot of it is they're explaining their conflict. I didn't get along with my boss. I'm not a big fan of the word toxic, but I like to say unsafe or unhealthy work environment.
People, they're talking about that or the pay was not good or they couldn't get days off. So any conflict, they're going to put it right out there for anybody to read. So I totally agree with you there for sure.
[00:39:03] Speaker A: Yeah, good data mining, that's something I want to really make sure we talk about with the listeners as well, is it's not information to make you feel bad or to make you feel like you're not doing a good job or that there's a thousand things outside of your control. There's actually a lot more within our control when it comes to people than we maybe have been taught in the past or maybe we felt before. But if you can look at it through a critical objective eye as simply data to do your job better, that's gonna, that's gonna be the healthiest way to approach it. Because I don't want you to go in there and then get stuck in these mean Internet streets and then everybody's oh my gosh, I hate everything that you're doing and you're thinking, I'm the world's first leader. This is terrible. Don't go in there and now have an internal crisis, but just use it as data. These are just data points. And when we have more data, we make better decisions.
[00:39:55] Speaker B: Absolutely. So if you could choose one word to describe yourself, Ashley, what word would that be?
[00:40:02] Speaker A: I think this is such a great question, Andrew. I think empathetic. I think empathetic. I really am able to put myself in people's shoes and maybe not understand at the level that they have the lived experience, but understand at a level that's deeper than the average person to really make that person feel seen and feel heard and feel valued. And I think that we need more empathetic leaders and we need more people who are willing to say, you know what, it's a hard day. Let's sit down and have a conversation and do it with inquisitiveness and do it with compassion and do it with heart. And I think that the way that we get there is through empathy, through being able to put ourselves in other people's shoes and say, okay, obviously I'm upset because I'm the manager and this project went sideways, but what's that person experiencing? How are they feeling? What could they possibly need from me that maybe I haven't given them? And I think when we tap into our empathy, that gives us such a robust skill set to be able to support people in better ways. And I think that empathy really is my superpower for sure.
[00:41:17] Speaker B: I would 100% agree with you on that. From my conversations with you and my dealings with you, that is probably one of the first things that I noticed from you. Going back to our first ever conversation over the phone. You did not know me at all the first conversation that we were having. And you showed tremendous empathy and compassion for me. And for sure, I definitely agree with you on that one. Empathy.
[00:41:48] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:41:48] Speaker B: Empathetic is definitely you.
[00:41:50] Speaker A: Thank you. I appreciate that. And I'm glad that you felt that way.
[00:41:54] Speaker B: Oh, I certainly did. Any final thoughts today?
[00:41:58] Speaker A: Something I haven't mentioned yet that I think would be really helpful is we have to listen to understand.
And the only way that we can listen is if we are willing to ask questions instead of trying to have all the answers, instead of trying to strong arm conflict resolution, it's being willing to sit in the discomfort of saying, tell me more about that. How does that make you feel? What could be different?
Just living and leaning into curiosity and inquisitiveness, not to have an answer or have a gotcha moment or have a Response, like on the tip of your tongue, but really, truly just asking a question and then pausing and letting that person speak. And. And I know that for so many of the people I work with, asking a question and pausing is the hardest part because they're like, tell me more about that. Does it make you feel like this? And it's like all of a sudden, it's like I'm trying to answer the question for them. Whereas we need to say, tell me more about that and then give it a good 10 count pause. And I don't mean 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, but 1, 2, 3, 4.
Like, letting that person have the time to process and to respond. And then when you think they're done talking, pause some more. Because there's always gold nuggets that come after that pause after they've said the initial thing, because that's usually surface level stuff. And when you pause and you let them continue thinking and processing or maybe encourage them with another say more about that, there's so much more that's beneath the surface that will add incredible value to the conversation, to your relationship, to your team dynamics. So be uncomfortable in the pause and ask questions.
[00:43:53] Speaker B: That is full of golden nuggets there. I love everything you said there. I wanted to take the time to thank you for coming on and having this amazing, important conversation with me today. I've always wanted to have you on. I knew it wasn't good timing for you when I first initially asked you to come on, and here you are today having this conversation with me, and I am so overwhelmed with joy to have you on here today. I call you a genuine individual, but you are a super dynamo for me. You are absolutely amazing at what you do, what you say, how you handle yourself.
And I joked about it earlier, and I said, when I grow up, I want to be just like you. But in reality, I do look to you and I admire you, and I do read a lot of the stuff that you put out there. And I will tell you that I do take notes of everything, and I take notes of everything you say, what you write. And I want you to continue to do the good things and the good work that you're doing because you do tremendous work for your clients, and it is an honor to have you on. And I hope that you don't go very far, because now that I've had you on, I definitely would like to have you on again sometime.
[00:45:17] Speaker A: Oh, my goodness. Y' all can't see me, but my cheeks are just a little flushed right now because that was just really tremendous. Thank you so much, Andrew. I. I appreciate and I receive all of that and it's such a gift to know you, to call you a friend, to be on your show and have this incredible conversation. And I, I truly hope that everyone who tunes in finds a nugget or two that they can take back and can really impact their lives, their teams and everyone, the individuals that they work with every day, their lives and their families and the people that they interact with too, because it really is a ripple effect. It really is this impact ripple that I talk about a lot. And you just never know who you're going to meet on the Internet like Andrew and I and be able to create even more impact together.
And Andrew, the world needs your voice. So it's not just about me. But you have such a powerful message to share and you are doing an incredible job with your podcast and it's an honor and a pleasure to be here with you.
[00:46:15] Speaker B: I appreciate your kind words. I take them and I receive them as well.
On behalf of myself and my guest, Ashley, I would like to thank you all for listening. And until next time, be safe. And remember, everyone, that if we all work together, we can accomplish anything you
[00:46:33] Speaker A: have been listening to. Let's be diverse with Andrew Stout to stay up to date with future content. Hit Subscribe.
