Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Opinions expressed in this episode are personal. They do not necessarily reflect the views of this streaming platform.
[00:00:09] Speaker B: Good day, everyone, and welcome to another edition of let's Be Diverse. I am your host, Andrew Stout. This episode is dedicated to all my loved ones who've supported me through this journey. Those who have left us will always be in our hearts and will never be forgotten. Today our topic is Breaking Survival Mode, the path to thriving leadership. And our guest today is someone that I have known for quite a while now and I've really grown fond of this individual and I admire her greatly. Her name is Michelle Dickinson. Michelle, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for joining us today.
[00:00:42] Speaker C: Thank you for inviting me. I'm thrilled to be here with you, Andrew.
[00:00:45] Speaker B: Thrilled to have you. How are things with you, Michelle? What's going on with you? Give me the tea, the deets, give me it all. What's going on?
[00:00:51] Speaker C: I don't like being cold, Andrew, and I'm stuck here in New Jersey and it's cold and I want to be on a beach. But aside from that, I'm healthy. I'm healthy. I'm. I'm pretty happy and life is good. I can't complain.
[00:01:03] Speaker B: Well, that's good. And yes, I am cold where I am too. So I know how you're feeling and I would rather be on a beach as well too. But it is what it is. When we live in a cold climate, we have to deal with it and deal and just go roll with the punches and just wait for the warm weather to come. So. But yeah, yeah. Any plans on going to the to a beach anytime soon?
[00:01:21] Speaker C: I'm going to take my heels and click them together and hopefully I'll land there.
No, I don't have any plans. I would love to have plans.
[00:01:29] Speaker B: No plans just as yet, eh? Well, hopefully you make it there soon. Or as it starts getting warmer home, hopefully you make it there as well. Yeah. Before we get into the nuts and bolts of this conversation here, I always have a fun, thought provoking question to ask my guests to get things going. Are you ready for yours today, Michelle?
[00:01:45] Speaker C: I am. Here we go.
[00:01:49] Speaker B: So your question today is, if you had your own late night talk show, who would you invite as your first guest?
[00:01:58] Speaker C: Kevin Hart.
[00:01:58] Speaker B: Well, why Kevin Hart?
[00:02:00] Speaker C: The guy is brilliant and hysterical and humble.
[00:02:04] Speaker B: He is humble, isn't he?
[00:02:05] Speaker C: He is.
[00:02:06] Speaker B: That's what I do like about him.
[00:02:07] Speaker C: I could listen to him for hours. I don't know if you're a fan of Joe Rogan's podcast, but I go back and listen to that guy on Joe Rogan's podcast. And I just am always so inspired by him. He's such a good dude.
[00:02:19] Speaker B: Yeah, he is a good dude. He does say a lot of inspirational things. And.
And I just love. And I love a humble nature. I love a humble, natured person. And yes, I agree with you. He is super humble. And yes, something to admire about him as well, for sure. Well, great answer. Thanks so much for. For having fun with me. And you were pretty quick with that, Michelle. I appreciate that.
[00:02:40] Speaker C: You're welcome.
[00:02:43] Speaker B: So why don't we start off with you telling us a little bit about yourself and, Michelle, I'd love to hear about your why as well.
[00:02:48] Speaker C: Yeah, my why. Okay. So a little bit about me.
You know, I guess we're here talking about resilience for a reason. So resilience is something that's very near and dear to me because I grew up with a mother who had bipolar disorder, and I witnessed her pain in my childhood. So I'd say mom is my why.
Because, you know, throughout my childhood, in my young adult life and my adult life, I witnessed her, you know, on that roller coaster of highs and lows and just struggling. She didn't take the best care of herself. She was constantly on different cocktails. But, you know, back then, they didn't really have very good, I guess, care, consistent care for people with bipolar disorder as they do today. You know, Bipolar I, bipolar 2, treated differently, whatever, so that it shaped me. I went on. I'm proud, though, because, you know, anyone who grows up in a volatile childhood, things can go many different ways for your future. But I am proud that I was able to kind of rise above it, have a good career. And so. So several years ago, I was invited to give a TED talk about my mom, and I gave the TED Talk. And that led me to write my memoir. And that led me to just become a very outspoken mental health advocate. But all the while, I wondered why we were talking about mental health and mental illness after the fact. Like, why were we not talking about things that were within our agency that we could do to, like, help preserve our well being before we waited and like, sort of got. Got hit by, you know, a diagnosis and then whether it be burnout or depression. So I got really cur and I said, you know, I think that there's a lot to be said about building resilience. And so that's kind of my spin on keeping my mother's spirit alive and honoring her. And my why is really to talk about and promote resilience I love that.
[00:04:37] Speaker B: Story, and I just love your why and your mom. And I think we're very much alike because I felt like that about my late mom, and I still feel about that. And I miss her every day. And she's a wonderful woman and she taught me a lot, and she taught me, yes, about resilience, but she also taught me about hard work and what it means to be a hard worker and to, and to, to do what you believe in and to stick with what you believe in. I love that you talk about her, and, and I could just tell by you talking about her, you just have such a huge passion for. For her. And so I just love that. And, and that's admirable of you to talk about that and to share your story and what you went through. And I'm sure there's quite a few listeners who may or may not have gone through a similar story. So we just got to look at the positive and see that we're on the end of the. On the positive side and things do get better as time goes on. So I love that. So thanks so much for sharing that. So, Michelle, when you hear the phrase survival mode, what does it mean to you personally as a leader?
[00:05:42] Speaker C: Yeah, I feel like, you know, when, when I hear survival mode, I hear I'm doing the bare minimum to stay on the hamster wheel, you know, and I think that it doesn't have to go that way. You know, I say this all the time to people. You know, I've coached so many people, you know, over 7,000 hours of individual coaching in helping people avoid burnout. And so what did I learn through that is that a lot of people are sitting passive, waiting for their external circumstances to be different so they no longer have to be in survival mode. And I'm here to say you have agency. You have control over more things than you think you do. So stop sitting around and waiting for things to change outside of you and start thinking about what can I do just for today to help myself feel better.
[00:06:34] Speaker B: I love everything you talk about that, and I am full agreement on survival mode. And that transcends not just for leaders, but I think people who are in the workforce are individual contributors as well, that they're just in survival mode and they're just doing the bare minimum, and they're just doing what. What's needed to do because they, for some reason, they've just lost their engagement and they just feel like they, they. There's nothing that can be done to fix their problem. And they're just they're stuck. They've already feel stuck. And I love when you said we all have agency and we all are able to fix any issues that we have, and we just have to realize that. And I think once we do, then I think it becomes a lot easier. We get that out of that mindset of I can't. When. And then you can. When you get to that mindset of I can, it becomes a positive for sure.
[00:07:23] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. And I think people forget they have control over their diet, their movement, how much sleep they're getting, how much water they're drinking. These are little tiny micro things they can be doing to shift their energy and help them manage their stress. If they do little things for themselves every day, they'll start to feel better. And I promise you, when you physically start to feel better, your disposition and your outlook on the challenge starts to shift. Even if it's a millimeter less, it's a change.
[00:07:56] Speaker B: So you might have talked a little bit about this, but I kind of want you to go a little bit more in depth here because I really want to hear what your thoughts are on this. What is the hardest part about stepping out of survival mode?
[00:08:06] Speaker C: Yeah. Is your belief system that you don't have a choice? Right. So going back to agency, I think the hardest part is people are waiting for their boss to give them last work, their. Their colleague to be replaced, their project to be over, all of these things to be different in order for them to start taking better care of themselves and start realizing, listen, it all starts with me getting to bed and getting eight hours of sleep. It all starts with me picking up something that has some nutrition in it so that I'm fueling my body with good food. It all starts with me taking 30 minutes at lunchtime and going outside and getting a brisk walk in to clear my head and to get air in my lungs. Little things can make a huge difference. So we have the power to step out of survival mode just by taking a little bit better care of ourselves and realizing that that's where it all is going to start.
[00:09:06] Speaker B: Have you seen, with your clients or people that you're working with, have you found it? People struggle with that to, To. To step out of survival mode. Like, are you finding that?
[00:09:14] Speaker C: I think a lot of people, you know, you see, it's hard because in conversations I've had so much of the belief that narrative that we are in survival mode is rooted in what we're allowing our minds to consume. So, like, I always ask the question, like, how much News do you consume? How much social media are you consuming? You know, what are you doing to, to lift your spirits? Who are you talking to? Are the people that, around you draining you? You know, are you, are you listening to anything that motivates or inspires you? Do you do anything that brings you joy? What is your hobby? You know, all of these little things play into, into how we feel and how we think. But our mindset is the biggest part of this puzzle of survival mode. So I'm, I'm always that person that invites people to, to say, like, I invite you to think differently, to do differently so you can feel differently. You know, it's like the cognitive, like, it's, it's the triangle, what we think about, and then that corresponds to our action and corresponds to our results. So if you do the same thing over and over and over, you're gonna get the same result and you're gonna constantly still feel like you're in survival mode. So why not try something different? Why not like, go for a walk one day? Or why not put on a motivational podcast by somebody that you like, you know that who's. Who, you know is gonna elevate your mood or you're gon something, you have a, you have a say in that. So stop sitting and waiting for someone to come along and save you or create a different circumstance.
[00:10:44] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's a daily practice too. I mean, I've started to do some, some thought process when I get up in the morning, and I, I have a mantra that I read to myself every day now, and it just kind of gets me in a, in a, in a positive mindset, and it just gets me ready for the day and I can just see the light. And maybe it's not going to go fully the way that I would have liked it, but I'd like to try to take some of the positives from the day and maybe you're going to get full positives, maybe you're going to get some positives. But I try to at least take some of them. That way I'm not kind of at the end of day going, oh, my God, what a disaster of a day. Right? It's just something good happen. What was it? And just, I try to find it, and when I do, then your mind, you talked about mindset. And I think your mindset is, it changes and it thinks so much differently, for sure.
[00:11:35] Speaker C: And whatever we focus on, Andrew will always expand. So if you take the time and you focus on a couple things that are going well in your life that's going to expand. The one thing I like to remind people is that your mind is not wired to make you happy. Your mind is wired to protect you. So it's always going to be wanting to look for the negative and then it's a choice at that point how much focus you give it. Because if you focus on what's wrong, it will expand. So I love what you're saying about focusing on the good and I'm a big advocate of focus on gratitude. Pick a few things you're grateful for, because if you sit in, in five minutes of gratitude, it's going to give you a shot at having a better day.
[00:12:15] Speaker B: I love that. So I want to put you in the mind of a leader, of a team in an organization here, Michelle. How can leaders recognize the early signs that they're slipping back into survival mode?
[00:12:29] Speaker C: So it's an energy. It is an energy. You walk into a room with a leader that is in a good headspace, you feel that energy. You walk into a room with a leader that is not in a good place, you feel that energy. I think leaders should recognize their vibe that they're creating impacts the people that report to them. Right, the people they're working with. So it's almost like as leaders we have a responsibility first and foremost to ourselves. Like we deserve to feel good. Like, let's, let's talk about the fact that fundamentally we just deserve to feel good every day. And when we feel good, that has a radiating effect outward onto people around us. So I think, you know, it's having a sense of responsibility that you really are a role model for others through how you show up in your energy so that all then backs into. How are you preserving that energy? What are you doing to elevate your vibration? Did you get eight hours of sleep or did you go out drinking the night before? You know, did you, did you have an intentional morning or did you like rush out of the house and like kick the dog on the way out? Like these are, these are all things that contribute to the energy you bring with yourself into, into that space. So I don't know, I think there's, we should have a sense of responsibility to the people around us who are feeling that, that energy and recognize when we start to slip that, you know what, I really do need to start taking better care of me. You know, I got to put the oxygen mask on me because the majority of people, they don't want to come home and give their spouse a watered down version of themselves like that's. Not what their spouse signed up for. But if you don't take care of yourself, that's what you're going to give the person that you signed up to do life with. And that's not very fair.
[00:14:13] Speaker B: No, and I get what you're saying, and I totally agree with you. I think you're going to bring your work home and your homework to work. That's, it's, it's, there's no way around that. But yes, I do believe, I do understand and I do agree with you as far as the energy. I've been around some leaders who had tremendous energy, and you just, they just exuded that energy. And when you're around them, you just wanted to be. And it's funny to say that you were around, you want to be around your boss. But I just wanted to be around those leaders and learn from them and hear what they had to say. I always wanted to hear what they had to say and I always wanted to see how did he react to certain situations and just their, again, their energy and the way that they exuded themselves. I just loved watching that and seeing that and speaking with them and just bringing that out was just so positive for me. And like I said, I just wanted to be around them every second. I know, like I said, like I said, I know people listening are like, oh, man, you want to be around your boss all the time. But in this case, when you have good energy, you want to learn, and they're the ones that are leading you and they're ones that are teaching you and molding you and helping you grow throughout your career. And if you can get that, you're going to be successful for sure. Yeah.
[00:15:33] Speaker C: Yeah, that's great. I love that. I mean, there are leaders that inspire just by who they are. And I think we're, we're blessed if we have those people in our lives.
[00:15:42] Speaker B: Absolutely, 100%.
So what responsibility do organizations and leaders have to create environments where thriving is possible for everyone?
[00:15:53] Speaker C: So I want to, I want to spin this a little bit. Yes, I believe fundamentally, I believe workplaces need to create spaces and be cognizant of diversity and meeting people where they are and also creating a space where people can show up and be their best self.
Absolutely. Hands down. But listen, that means different things to different companies and cultures are different across, across the board. And why wait for a company to create a culture? I want to turn it back on.
We allow people to treat us by the boundaries we set for ourselves. So I want to put it back on. Us, right? Like you are teaching people how to interact with you by what you tolerate. Now I'm not saying be insubordinate. I'm saying turn your work phone off at 5:30, give yourself a break. If they email you, get back to them in the morning. That's a boundary. That's a healthy boundary so that you can go and recharge so you can come back fully engaged and not have micro resentments build because you're working around the clock and they're not paying you around the clock. So I say take, take responsibility for yourself and what, how you take care of you and how much time makes sense for you to invest in the work that you have.
You know, like I think most leaders nowadays know it's just not a good idea to email someone after hours unless the place is burning down, right? Because then even if you don't acknowledge it, that phone's going off and you see the email from your boss, it's still you're working in your mind. So like most good leaders know, I'm going to give my people a break and it can wait until 8am tomorrow or 10 or 9am or whatever it is. You know what I mean? But I also think going into a job you have the complete ability to set that boundary for yourself and you know, work well within those parameters.
[00:17:47] Speaker B: Michelle, you hit the target red on a button. I asked you this question for a particular reason because I wanted to see what your thoughts were on this. But also I think it's super important, which is what you said too, that yes, it's organizations, but we were, we've been talking this whole episode about energy and acting a certain way or bringing ourselves and working on ourselves and making a choice on who we are, who we are and how we're going to act. And I do believe that yes, it's the organization's responsibility to create a safe working environment for all their employees. But I think the onus is on the employee as well to create that onus as well. And I love when you said not answering a text or saying to your boss, hey, listen, I don't mind if you send me email after hours, but just know that I'm with my family and I'm gonna answer that email first thing in the morning. And I just hope that you understand that and I hope that you respect that. Not just for the job, but for our working relationship. I just want you to understand that and I think if you can respect that, then we're going to have a good work dynamic. So I think that's kind of very important.
So again, we. It's on them, but it's also on us as well.
[00:19:07] Speaker C: Yes, absolutely. We have agency. I think that's the takeaway here. Everything you just said is just remember in every scenario there is a thread of agency. You will always have leverage it.
[00:19:19] Speaker B: Absolutely. So, Michelle, before we wrap up here, what is a key takeaway or what's one key takeaway that you'd like our listeners to remember from this episode?
[00:19:28] Speaker C: So there's a couple tips I want to leave and then I'll answer this because I feel like, I feel like people need, they need like a prescription. So let me give you those and then I'll come back and answer this question because there's like, there's a lot here. So I have five strategies that I share with every single client, every coaching client, and it's based on the fact that these things work for people. The first thing is don't fall into your day. And I want to say that because so often we start our day over stimulated, whether we are late, we hit snooze, we scroll on our phone for like, you know, half an hour in bed, whatever we're doing. My invitation is don't fall into your day. Create an intentional morning for yourself because it is the beginning of the entire day and it's so important.
So how you do that first hour is so important. It'll affect your entire day. So that could mean as simple as, I'm going to sit down, have a cup of coffee, I'm going to listen to my favorite music, I'm going to listen to my favorite podcast, whatever it is, but like, be intentional about it so that you're not like at the effects of the day immediately. That's the first thing. Get enough sleep, for the love of God. I have to tell you, stress is always going to show up in our lives. Always. The one thing we have the ability to do is navigate stress better. And if we get enough sleep, adequate sleep, we'll be able to handle stress better. So you know what it feels like to come at the day having not gotten enough rest. And the littlest thing feels like a friggin mountain you got to climb. So give yourself a shot at having a good day. Get the rest that your body needs to handle the stress that's coming. Because it's coming. I want to say move your body because moving your body is so good for our health, our vitality, our energy and the endorphins that come from moving your body. Give yourself a shot at Feeling physically good because it's going to help you be able to have a positive mindset. The positive mindset comes easier when you physically feel, like, refreshed from a workout or some type of movement. Drink your water. Hydration. The most common thing I've seen is people struggle with migration, migraines, or having very little energy because they're dehydrated. Drink your water. I mean, it's so simple. But just drink your water. You're going to feel better, you're going to have better energy. And then look at who you surround yourself with, who has your attention. If it's a negative Nelly, you might want to take a step back and start hiring, firing, and promoting different people in your life because you're the CEO of your life. So those are really important things that if you do some of those, if you did two of those things, I promise you, your energy and your stress are going to shift. And when they do, you're going to be like. So it's going to be a little bit easier for me to handle, feeling like, you know, I got a lot on my plate. You're going to be able to handle it. So you asked me, what's one key takeaway? And my key takeaway is what I said before. You have more agency than you think you do. The moment you're in trouble is when you resign yourself to waiting on anybody else to do or say anything in order for you to feel better. Right. So if you're waiting for your boss to, you know, take some work off your plate, or you're waiting for that thing out there to be any different than it is, you're giving away your power. Focus on where you have agency. Okay, well, I can get home tonight. I can have myself a good meal. I can relax with my wife or my husband. I can get to bed early. These are things I can do because I want to feel good. So just remember, you do have agency.
[00:23:01] Speaker B: Wow. So I asked you for one, and you gave me five amazing tips. So I appreciate that. I love that. And you, I love everything that you said there. Super great advice. And I love a lot of. I love every one of those things. And I think if everybody does like you said, two of those things or three of those things, I think they're going to definitely see a difference for sure. Michelle, I wanted to take the time to thank you for coming on today.
Michelle, I just admire your genuine nature, your passion, and your magnetic personality. You just have so much magnetic energy.
And I just gravitate and I just said to you before that. I gravitated to a leader and I just gravitate to people who just have that magnetic energy. And I believe that's why I gravitated to you first when we first connected. And I've stuck with it and I've continuously reach out to you and speak to you, and I believe it's because of that. And I don't know where that energy comes from or where you get it, but it just amazes me, your energy and I just want to just be around it all the time. So thank you for that and just thank you for being such a genuine human and I just enjoy you and everything that you that you're putting out there and you're just doing some great work. So thank you so much for everything.
[00:24:20] Speaker C: You're so welcome, Andrew. Thank you. That was very touching. I appreciate that.
[00:24:23] Speaker B: You're very, very welcome. On behalf of myself and my guest Michelle, I'd like to thank you all for joining us. Until next time, be safe. And remember, everyone, that if we all work together, we can accomplish anything.
[00:24:37] Speaker A: You have been listening to let's be Diverse with Andrew Stout. To stay up to date with future content, hit Subscribe.
