Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Before we dive in today's episode, I want to take a moment to share something that's been on my heart, something I've been working on behind the scenes for a while now. I'm officially writing a book. This book is called let's Be A Practical Guide to Leading Through Change. And it's deeply personal to me. It's built from real experiences. The uncertainty, the challenges, the moments where I didn't have the answers but had to lead. This isn't just a leadership book filled with theory. It's about navigating uncertainty when there's no clear direction, building internal clarity when everything around us feels unclear, having courageous conversations, even when they're uncomfortable, and leading with value, especially when it's the hardest to do so. I'm also going into topics that don't get talked about enough, like what it feels like to be challenged, overlooked, and even bullied as an adult in the workplace. And how those moments shape the kind of leader you become. This book is for anyone who's ever thought, how do I lead when I don't feel ready? How do I show up when I don't have all the answers? And how do I stay true to myself in environments that challenge me? If this is you, this book is for you. I'll be sharing more about the journey behind the scenes, moments and opportunities for you to be part of it as we go. So stay tuned because this is more than just a book. It's a movement around how we lead through change together.
All right, let's get to today's episode.
[00:01:25] Speaker B: Opinions expressed in this episode are personal. They do not necessarily reflect the views of this streaming platform.
[00:01:34] Speaker A: Good day, wonderful people, and welcome to another edition of let's Be Diverse. I am your host, Andrew Stout. This episode is dedicated to all my loved ones who supported me through this journey. Those who have left us will always be in our hearts and will never be forgotten. Today, our topic is beyond accommodation. Building true accessibility or building truly accessible learning. Our guest today is one heart centered human. Her name is Tiana. Fetch Tiana. Thank you so much for having for coming on today.
[00:02:06] Speaker B: Thank you so much for this opportunity.
[00:02:08] Speaker A: Oh, you're super welcome. How are things with you? What's been energizing you these days? Give us the tea, give us the deets, give us it all. What's going on?
[00:02:17] Speaker B: What has been energizing me? What's. Well, there's been quite a few things going on in my world, and I recently heard someone describe what they do in a way that I'm going to Completely steal for them. I really have a portfolio approach to my life. So I wear many hats and I enjoy having that mix of things that I do. So a most recent thing was one of the hats that I wear is I am an academic engagement facilitator at circumstances sait. So I'm in a part time role that I do alongside my amazing colleague Teresa Bent. And she and I got brought on to SAIT just over three years ago to increase SAIT student engagement in applied research. And just last week we got to present for our third time at the CARA national conference. So this is the Canadian association of Research Administrators. I'm talking about our work and specifically focusing on the importance of mentorship. So mentorship, we sort of use like the story of how mentorship has been a part of the work that we do, but also encourage people to get curious about how mentorship plays a role in their own work and how they might be able to kind of lean into and leverage mentorship more to make a difference for their communities in the workplace.
[00:03:35] Speaker A: I love this because I, I think mentorship is super important. I myself have been fortunate to have several mentors throughout my, my career, in my life and I, I find it, it's unforgettable because I find that those opportunities, when you meet these people and when they mentor you, you just remember every situation and all aspects of the whole engagement and scenario. It's, it's, and it just, it's super memorable.
[00:04:06] Speaker B: It really is. And that was actually, it's funny you bring that up because that was one of the things we had people do is we had them on a really personal level. Think about those important special mentors in their lives and the impact that they had on them. And we challenged them, if they hadn't already, to let those people know how much they meant to them and why. So I'm curious, have you let some of these special people know how they've had an impact on you?
[00:04:34] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. Several times. And so often that they, they've, that they've probably not that they told me to stop, but they just kind of said I, I, it was a pleasure to do that for you. It's if I was so thankful that I couldn't find the words or find a way to thank them and I just doesn't matter what I said or did, I always felt like I didn't do enough because of what they brought to me. That's, that's just how I felt.
[00:05:03] Speaker B: I love that.
[00:05:03] Speaker A: Yeah. So, and again, super memorable. So again, opportunities and something that I will remember for the rest of into eternity.
[00:05:11] Speaker B: I would say they really, these people really do stick with us and stay with us.
[00:05:15] Speaker A: Yes, they definitely do. Well, thanks so much for sharing that with me and congratulations on having that opportunity to speak at that. And, and, and, and congratulations on that amazing work that you do. We're going to hear more. A lot of work that you do today in this conversation, I'm sure, but congratulations on that. Before we begin, I always have a fun, thought provoking question. I ask all my guests to get things going. Are you ready for yours today?
[00:05:40] Speaker B: I am.
I think so.
[00:05:44] Speaker A: Okay, so this one is something that I've asked a couple times in previous episodes and I thought, why not ask it today? So my question is, if practice makes perfect, but no one is perfect, why should we continue to practice?
[00:05:59] Speaker B: Ooh. Well, over the course of my 48 years. So I just turned 48 recently.
Thank you. Yes, I think there really is no such thing as perfect. And I really admire those experts who own the fact that there is always more to learn and they never will fully arrive. So even though they have such expertise and they really are experts in the field, they recognize sort of that lifelong learner piece of who they are.
I think practice is where we learn. It's where we can try new things and stretch ourselves and take that messy action and continue to grow and sort of not heading towards perfection, but just heading towards being curious and maybe thinking about things in a different way and sort of evolving as a human. So there is no such thing as perfect and it's not a thing to aim for, but I think just that lifelong learning, growing. There's a gentleman that, that I've had the privilege to hear speak a couple of times now, and I actually got to have a conversation with him recently. His name is Neil Hunter and he's the Chief Learning Officer with Deloitte Canada. And he talks about how the best learning happens. Playing in the sandbox, just exploring and trying new things. So, yeah, there's no such thing as perfect in my world.
[00:07:29] Speaker A: Yeah, that analogy is amazing when you think about it, because, yeah, if we, we're not, we're not trying, then we can't be innovative and creative. So I, I just love that analogy.
[00:07:41] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:07:42] Speaker A: Tiana, thank you so much for having fun with me. I really appreciate that. And I, I just love and admire your answer. That was, that was well done. Bravo. Bravo to you.
[00:07:52] Speaker B: I passed the test.
[00:07:53] Speaker A: Oh, you passed the test. You actually passed it so well that you made me look like a fibber. Because I Always tell people. I never tell my guest the question, but it kind of made it seem like you knew the answer. So you did really, really great.
[00:08:07] Speaker B: Oh, phew. Okay, I can relax now.
[00:08:11] Speaker A: So to get us started, who are you and what drives you to do the work that you do?
[00:08:17] Speaker B: So who am I? So I would say first, like a wife and a mom and a daughter and a sister, like those relationships and friend, those relationships in my life are the most important piece of who I am.
And then as far as sort of my personal journey and the work that I do, I'm someone who loves to travel and explore and always learn like I am at my core a lifelong learner. And I love working in the field of education. So my career started out, I was a junior high and high school science teacher way back in the day. And since then I've had the opportunity and privilege to have so many interesting roles in that field of education. So currently, as I mentioned, I'm at sait part time working as an academic engagement facilitator. My colleague and I over these three years have, in our first two years we increased student engagement in applied research by 300% and in this last school year by just over 280%. An additional 280%. And piece of that in sort of in alignment with what I was sharing that we spoke about at the conference was doing mentorship training with our research mentors that work with students and really increasing their capacity. I'm also a consultant. So I support individual entrepreneurs and businesses and organizations with the structure and strategy to create really impactful relationship centered learning experiences for their people so that they themselves don't have to become a teacher. I, like you, host a podcast. So I host the People Teaching People podcast which is the place to talk about all things teaching and learning in a world where there's always more to discover. And I recently, well, we still have one more session, but essentially have wrapped up an amazing fellowship opportunity that I got to be a part of with a nonprofit organization here in Calgary called Learning City. And Learning City is all about having Calgary be a city that never stops learning. So looking at learning in some new and different ways and we were specifically looking at how to make learning more accessible for underserved populations in Calgary. So that was a real privilege to be connected with an amazing group. So there were 12 of us along with the Learning City community itself and then also the facilitators that guided us through that experience.
[00:10:53] Speaker A: Experience so much to pack in here. You do, you do so much and we have had conversations before. You've discussed this. And what really strikes me in all of this is that you. You manage to. To do all those things. And I imagine there's a lot of time management in that. In that process. So I just love that in our topic today, we're probably gonna talk about time management a little bit, I'm sure. But this is something that's. I'm super impressed with. With. Again, with everything that you. That you have on your plate. I'm a huge believer in moms being. Having the hardest job ever. So you just. You doing all that stuff plus being. Be a mom. Super admirable, for sure.
[00:11:36] Speaker B: Oh, thank you. I appreciate it. It's. I would say it's the job where I learn the most every day. Every day. Which is amazing, I think. Yeah. Our three boys, who are now 19, 17, and 15, have been my greatest teachers, for sure.
[00:11:53] Speaker A: That's awesome. And we talk a lot about different forms of leadership. You and your husband, I would say, are what I call parent leadership, and that is super important. And they're growing up to be awesome leaders themselves from. From the sounds of it as well.
[00:12:09] Speaker B: Well, you know, you hope, right? You. You plant the seeds and you're. You try to be the little voice in the back of their head, sort of like providing some guidance and encouragement and all that. And it's just so interesting. I'll quote my dad here. My dad said the problem with raising kids with minds of their own is that they have minds of their own.
But I think it's great, right? Like, at the end of the day, you want, like, my husband and I want our kids to find their own path and their own way and to define success in a way that means something to them. And I think one of the hardest things as parents, especially, we're finding as they're getting older, is they really do have to find their own way.
And you watch them make mistakes or you watch them make a decision that maybe you wouldn't have. It is their experience, and it's not our experience to have for them, but it can be very hard.
[00:13:05] Speaker A: Oh, for sure. Yes. It's very hard to sit back in the wings and. And. And see them making those things. And you're in the back of your head, like you said, you're probably like. Or not sure that's a good decision.
[00:13:15] Speaker B: But sometimes we're wrong, right? Like, sometimes it's. It's not what we would do, but they're their own human, and it's. Yeah. Just watching them kind of find their Way and I would say like as a recent example, our youngest, he came home to me one day after school and he said so there's a 99.99% chance that I'm going to be meeting with the mayor tomorrow. And I was thinking what okay, like about what and how were you planning to do this? But sure enough he had been emailing with the mayor's office, Mayor Jeremy Farkas here in Calgary and he set up meeting him and his friend with the mayor and they met with the mayor
[00:13:55] Speaker A: and I know what, what was it like? What was his reasoning to, to me with him. Now I'm interested in this story now.
[00:14:03] Speaker B: Yeah. So he is really into like car racing and he, Falti and his friend felt that like there used to be a racetrack just outside of Calgary called Race City Speedway but it's not there anymore so they feel that there should be a new racetrack just outside of the city. So they outlined their talking points like safety, like getting. Having people not racing on our city streets like from. They also looked at it from an economic standpoint and how it could like financially benefit the city of Calgary. So yeah they outlined all their talking points. They had questions for the mayor. So yeah, that was, that was their ask and the mayor kindly met with them for about 20 minutes and had this discussion and then after that spent about 20 minutes touring them around city hall.
[00:14:50] Speaker A: Wow. I mean that's pretty impressive. Kids at their age wouldn't think of like the safety part. They, they just think like this is something that we need, it's something we want. But to have that aspect of the safety part for me that's pretty impressive to that they have that and sounds like they planned everything out beforehand. Like they didn't just throw spaghetti at a wall and say okay let's meet with the mayor and let's see what happens. Like they actually had a structured plan and they went for it. So good for them.
[00:15:20] Speaker B: Yeah. Andrew. I was just kind of like shocked by the whole thing.
[00:15:24] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:15:26] Speaker B: And I don't know like as an adult I think about if I were thinking oh this is something that I'd like to talk to the mayor about. I could see myself being like he's so busy or do you know what I mean? I feel sometimes not all adults but like I, as an adult I'll speak for myself. Catch myself sort of second guessing or talking myself out of or thinking kind of just not being confident and just going for it. Whereas I look at. Yeah, I was just so impressed that he and his Friend just kind of went for it without overthinking it and had that amazing experience.
[00:15:59] Speaker A: I would say that. So mom and dad win.
[00:16:00] Speaker B: I would take that as a win.
[00:16:02] Speaker A: Yes. I would take that as a win for sure. So, Tanner, our topic today again is beyond accommodations, Building truly accessible learning. What I want to know from you is when you hear the phrase beyond accommodation, what does truly accessible learning look like to you?
[00:16:19] Speaker B: Well, I would say, like, accessibility is a big piece of what I think about when I think of teaching and learning because you want learning to be accessible to everyone. But at the core of what I do, like even bigger and beyond that, I really do take that human centered, heart centered, relation centered approach when it comes to teaching and learning. Because for me, it's not about the checklist of objectives that we need to get through. Like, what is it that we want people to know and do that's important?
At the core of every decision that I make when it comes to teaching and learning or when I'm supporting somebody else or an organization with designing or implementing a teaching and learning experience, are the humans the people. So it's all about who is this learning for and why does it matter to them? Because if we're not designing with those people in mind, it's not going to have the lasting impact that you really want it to have. It's going to be just something that people show up for, maybe because they have to, and then they sort of carry on with whatever it is they're doing. And they're not necessarily taking what they're learning and putting into action or putting into practice. And they're not making those personal, meaningful, authentic connections to it. And in many ways it can be actually like a wasted or missed opportunity.
[00:17:47] Speaker A: I love everything you just said there. And I feel like if we're talking, if I'm going to go into like an organization setting, I feel like organizations, what they do is when they decide that they want to do some training for the organization, you're up to the rate they don't take the human centered element in there and look at their people, they don't take that into consideration. They look at the whole organization and what is needed, which I get. But you're absolutely right. If it's something that they're not going to be into, first off, you're probably going to lose them well into the training. And second of all, if you ask them about it after or what they enjoyed, they probably won't tell you or be able to tell you because they. They're just not Engaged.
[00:18:33] Speaker B: Well, and I think we've all been there. Like I have you ever had an experience where you've been in some sort of course or workshop or training and all of a sudden you start thinking about like, like I've caught myself thinking about, oh, what was I going to make for dinner tonight? Or this is what I needed to get done. Like your mind starts to wander, you're not really present and in the, in the moment. Right. I think we've all sort of caught ourselves in that. And I know in, in an organization, in a business, there are things we have at sait in my role, there's training I have to do. It's a, it's a part of it. But even for those things that we have to do, we can still be thinking about how that experience is going to be had by the humans that are engaging in it. And a big part of it is thinking about how people are going to feel. So I know feelings are not really maybe necessarily like a big corporate organization type of way of looking at things, but I think about many learning experiences that I've had and there's some anxiety that, that goes along with it. When I went back to university, I did my master's degree. I started it when our older two kids were 3 and 1. And I literally remember driving to my first day of class thinking, why am I doing this to myself? Like, what if I can't do this? What if I fail? Like, what if I even was thinking about, like, what if nobody likes me? Like, what if I'm just like, why am I doing this? And so I had like that anxiety, that nervousness, like those feelings, those are the feelings I had going into that learning experience. And learning is not meant to be super comfortable. Right. Like we're stretching ourselves, we're learning something new, we're trying something new, we have to work through that messy middle. But I think we need to be cognizant of the feelings that people are coming in, into the experience with. How do we want them to feel as they're moving through it and how do we want them to feel after? So, you know, sometimes when an experience is not impactful and I've worked with a national food franchise where they brought me on to help them with their new franchise owner training. And the reason they brought me on is because people were going through this seven day intensive training and then heading out into the world to open their franchise and not feeling confident and ready to. Right. The way they were feeling wasn't sort of aligned with the goal of the training. So, yeah, I had a look at the training that they were doing, which was amazing. Like, they had. They were hitting all their objectives, they were covering all the content that they needed to have people know about. They were having them practice the skills they needed to be able to do. So we just had to make some tweaks and changes with the humans in mind and their feelings in mind.
[00:21:22] Speaker A: Daniel, we might have talked about this, but I kind of want to delve into this a little bit deeper, and I want to get your thoughts on it in your experience. Where do organizations often misunderstand accessibility when it comes to learning and development?
[00:21:34] Speaker B: I think it's a lot about really getting to know your people and listening to your people, particularly in an organization. I mean, teaching and learning experiences come in many forms, right? So it might be speaking to, like at sait, we've had this to an enormous group of humans from many departments coming together, right? So it's. That's one. Or maybe it's a smaller group type learning experience. The type of learning experience kind of changes the way that we think about things. I mean, accessibility in general, we're thinking about the space, right? So we think about and. And access to that space. We think about the timing, the pacing of the learning and how things are organized. We think about the fact that people learn in different ways. So how are we supporting that? Right? So it can be accessibility from a standpoint that some people might be visually impaired, some people might be experiencing hearing impairment. So how are we in getting to know our humans? What of those types of accommodations do we need to have in place to support they're learning? And then just how are we communicating things? Like I. I think about when, well, any sort of new setting that I've gone into, they have a language of their own. I've sat through so many meetings where I'm writing down acronyms, and I don't want to put up my hand and ask like every five minutes, what does that acronym mean? But there's a language, and that can be such a barrier for people in terms of learning and understanding, if you're not understanding these acronyms that get thrown in all the time. And there's so many pieces to think about when we think about learning being accessible, but so much of it has to do with our humans. So when my colleague and I were developing our mentorship training for the researchers at SAIT in Applied Research, we asked them and we listened to them in terms of what they were looking for in terms of support, and designed the training to Meet the questions and answers that they had and the challenges that they were experiencing. But even in some of our sessions, we learned things from them in how we could make things more accessible and how we could support them better. So a big part of accessibility is listening, asking questions and listening.
[00:24:04] Speaker A: So what you just said there is amazing. And the acronym part, when I. When you were talking about that, what it made me think about is we are using all these acronyms.
And I've been in meetings too, where there's been, like, tons of acronyms being used, and then people don't know what these acronyms are. So there's time taken to go back and explain what the. What the acronym is, but also explain what you know, what it means or what it is. So you're taking time from that. I don't. I mean, you could. We can use acronyms, whatever, but let's communicate as well what the acronym is. And then, you know, take a few, you know, does anybody know what this is? Or, you know, or. Or just say, you know, we're gonna have a lot of acronyms today. You know, just ask us if, if you know, if you're not sure what it is. But I think we're assuming that everyone's gonna know all the acronyms and they're not.
[00:25:04] Speaker B: Well, and that's such a big part of it is we make assumptions, right? Like, we all come into each situation and each day and each experience with our own story, our own experiences, our own knowledge. Maybe even somebody's coming into that meeting having, you know, had a personal crisis, and. And we just don't know what is going on for that human. And I. It's not to say that we're going to be able to know all the things going on for all the people and humans in a space, but just I think, remembering the humanity of all of us like that. That human piece of all of us and not make assumptions. And sometimes it can be like if somebody is sitting in a situation, they seem very apathetic and not engaged. You don't know.
[00:25:55] Speaker A: Right.
[00:25:55] Speaker B: And depending on the situation, circumstance, the relationship with you have that you have with that human, it might be appropriate to check in with them. Like, as a teacher, when I was teaching junior high and high school, I checked in with my students. If somebody didn't seem to be okay in an appropriate way at an appropriate time, I would just check in with them and see how they're doing. And, yeah, we all have good days and bad days, and we, We're. We're complex beings. We bring A lot of ourselves into
[00:26:24] Speaker A: each experience we have, we certainly do, is accessible learning. Not just an HR or compliance issue, but a leadership responsibility.
[00:26:34] Speaker B: I have the most amazing director at the ARIS Hub. So it's Applied Research and Innovation Services. And at this conference that I was just at, she was at as well in Richmond B.C. and she and my colleague Teresa did a presentation all about empowered leadership. So leadership where you're really empowering the humans around you. So I think with that accessibility piece in or in order to empower people, you need to get to know who they are and you need to give them the opportunity to do the amazing things that they're great at and support them with that and create a culture where people can come and let you know if they are experiencing a barrier. Right. Because we don't always know. But if you have that relationship with the people that you work with that they come can come and talk to you about something that they need support with something that you haven't thought about. Like we're all, I think that we're all doing our best, right? I think for the most part humans are good people. We're doing the, the best that we can with what we know. So in creating a culture in an organization or with the humans that you're working with where people can come and talk to you and let you, I think that's the way that you really empower them to do their best work, which then of course is best for the organization as, as a whole and you can create a community and culture that is more accessible. It's interesting, when my colleague Teresa and I were doing an exercise with our research mentors on communication, we had them sit back to back and one person was looking at a picture and explained explaining to the person with their back to them how to draw it. And it was interesting to see how those drawings turned out. Some of our folks in applied research, English is a second language. And so they were describing shapes and, and things like that. So not necessarily words that like you use in your day to day language necessarily. Like there were some pieces that we realized in not being able to show somebody what you meant in just sort of having to describe it verbally, how some challenges emerged. And so it was really eye opening I think for everybody to experience that just because we say something out loud to somebody doesn't necessarily mean they understand it. Right. And in education like I, when I was working with student teachers at the University of Calgary, I taught there for four years in Workland School of Education. I would always tell them like, just because you said it and showed it, even when you show it, doesn't mean they know it. Right. So giving people those opportunities to put things into practice and try and make those things relevant and connected.
[00:29:41] Speaker A: Have a similar story of what you just talked about when you were having two people sit back to back. I took a course in a diversity and inclusion, and one of the assignments that we had to do was we got this picture, and we had to describe what we saw in the picture. We couldn't tell, like, is it a. A man or is it a woman? The clothes that they were dressed in, were they under a bridge or were they in a park? And we had to talk about in that picture what we saw and what I learned from that is assumptions. Because when I'm looking at this picture, it's the first thing I thought is like, oh, oh, my God, like, everyone's gonna be assuming something about this photo. And then it's funny because we're talking about learning today. It actually made me think about assumptions, and then it kind of made me also think a little bit about certain situations that I've been in in the past where I might have assumed. And it's kind of made me kind of think a little bit more now. We talked a little perfection earlier. I'm not. We're not perfect, and I am not perfect I. At all. But it's definitely made me think a lot more since I took that course about what I'm thinking about and being careful not to assume something about any situation.
[00:31:04] Speaker B: Yeah. And I mean, I think recognizing and reflecting on that is so important because we all have. We do. We have our biases, we have our assumptions that we make, but it is sort of catching ourselves and thinking, huh? Like, maybe. Maybe I am making an assumption that isn't true. Right. And really being curious and trying to find out more, learn more, get to know those people better and then understand. Understand them and sort of how you can support them better.
[00:31:32] Speaker A: Oh, for sure. So how does building truly accessible learning environments impact innovation and overall team performance?
[00:31:42] Speaker B: Well, I. So I sort of chatted about this a little bit earlier, but just about those feelings, right. That come with learning.
And learning involves stepping outside of our comfort zone.
[00:31:54] Speaker A: Right.
[00:31:55] Speaker B: So when we can create a space that is safe and welcoming and accessible, people are going to be willing and more comfortable learning. So if you're in an environment where you're like, don't feel like you can put up your hand and ask the question, or you don't feel like you can try something and make A mistake, like fail right then you're not, you're not going to take those risks. So we recently experienced this. One of our kids, the hockey coach, did not create an environment that was safe, that felt safe where kids could take risks and try things and, and step outside of their comfort zone. The team was not like the team did, was not doing well. And the coaching situation ended up changing and the whole team culture completely shifted and all of a sudden the team was winning. Kids were stepping up into leadership roles and trying new things like that. You wouldn't have expected to do so otherwise. And I don't know, I think this was such a good reminder for me. Like, so much learning happens outside of those sort of structured traditional learning environments and spaces, right? Like we learn everywhere. So many of us are involved in, you know, extracurricular type activities or we're volunteering for various organizations. So much valuable learning happens there. And I, I truly believe that the most valuable learning happens when we're really thoughtful about creating that sandbox, right? That place where we can explore and try and experiment and iterate. Because when everything's running along like tickety boo and going well, okay, we're learning. But where does the real learning happen? When things don't go well and we have to problem solve and we have to put on like, and use our critical thinking skills and we have to collaborate with others and get curious and ask questions, question. So I think if we're really thoughtful about the type of learning environments that we're creating, that's where people can really step up, feel safe and, and do that great learning and, and at the end of the day, and in terms of an organizational context, it ends up being good for everybody.
[00:34:18] Speaker A: So when you, when you talked about your, your kids, hockey team, why I love to have these conversations is because I feel like everything intersects with leadership. So here you are talking about sports and most people will probably think that you would be talking about hockey tactics or, or structure, team structure, what they're doing or they're not doing this, they're not doing that. But you were talking about leadership and how a simple change changed the leadership. And not only did the leadership change, but the leadership in the players changed as well. So then everybody became leaders, which was a huge different situation. And then everyone is engaged. So I love that you talked about that because again, everything intersects with leadership in my mind.
[00:35:12] Speaker B: Yeah, it really, it really does. Like, I mean, there are so many styles of leadership and ways to describe leadership and leaders, but I don't think there's Necessarily. One right answer. Right. Obviously, as, as a human, you want to show up in, as a leader in a way that is authentic to who you are. If, if you look at a leader and you're like, that is just not me. Like, you don't want to pretend to be a leader in a way that, that doesn't align with who you are. Like, I think about my brother. He was a captain on his hockey teams, like, for a number of years growing up. But he's not the loudest person in the room, so he was more of a leader that led by example. And, you know, he was good at bringing his team together and all that, but he wasn't the loud person in the room. Right. We don't necessarily need to be loud to be a leader. I think, you know, you need to be able to articulate your ideas and speak and all those things, but you also need to listen. You need to be a good listener. Yeah. And. And you can lead and be a successful leader in lots of different ways. And I think that's one of the things, like in being a mom and looking at our kids, like our three kids are so different from one another and whatever path they take and whatever sort of leadership role they step into, like, that's not going to look the same from like Ryland to Easton to Carter. Right. They're going to find. They're going to find their own way too.
[00:36:34] Speaker A: They certainly are. You taught, we talked earlier about, you know, people learning in different ways and getting to know people. So I'm going to speak to leaders here that a lot of situations where we're looking for someone to step into a leadership role. You're absolutely right. It may not be the rah rah person. It may not be that person that's going to be great at speaking, but it's that person that is going to be like your brother, who they're. They're going to follow. So there are different leadership styles and we have to look at our individual people and see if they can fit into those roles and what role is best for them. Because the leadership role that they are looking for may not be best suited for them, but they can maybe do it in a different way or have a different viewpoint or angle on it. So it's something that I think we need to look at and consider for sure. Sure.
[00:37:32] Speaker B: Yeah. And it, again, I think it all comes back to, like, getting to know your people, having, having those relationships and connections with them and just. Yeah. You know, giving them those opportunities and that autonomy to do the Amazing work that they do. Things like micromanaging.
Yeah. Like, that doesn't work. Right. That, that doesn't give people the space to really step into what they're capable of. It makes people not feel trusted in a work environment.
I mean, not to say you never check in with people, but trust that the person can do the work and be there to support them and guide them along the way.
[00:38:10] Speaker A: Absolutely. So, Tiana, before we wrap up here, what is one key takeaway that you'd like our listeners to remember from this episode?
[00:38:18] Speaker B: Oh, boy. We talked about a lot of things.
[00:38:21] Speaker A: Okay. You can do more than one.
[00:38:22] Speaker B: I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I would say it would be like, get to know your people and know that there's usually more to the story. And I had the absolute privilege of attending, finishing my high school at a place called Pearson College, which is on Vancouver Island. So I spent two years there. And it's a school where 200 kids from around the world, so I think it was about 87 different countries come together for two years to live together, learn together, grow together. And from Lester B. Pearson's Nobel Peace winning prize winning speech, and I may not say it exactly correctly, but it is, how can there be peace without understanding? And how can we understand each other if we don't know each other? And I think, I think there's just so much value in really getting to know one another as humans and really designing our teaching and learning experiences and opportunities with our humans at the center.
[00:39:20] Speaker A: My call to action today would be to like share and follow this episode. Tan. I want to take the time to thank you for coming on today. What I admire about you is your growth mindset, the impact that you bring to every situation, how positive, innovative and inspiring you truly are, your commitment to making people feel really special, and your heart centered and outgoing personality. You were just such a dynamic human and I'm honored to have you as not just a connection, but I will definitely say that I call you a friend as well.
[00:39:56] Speaker B: Andrew, that is so kind. Thank you so much. And I just really appreciate this opportunity so much to sit down with you and have this conversation. And for you welcoming me into your space and having me on your podcast to have this conversation, thank you so much.
[00:40:15] Speaker A: You are very welcome. On behalf of myself and my guest Tiana, I'd like to thank you all for listening today. And until next time, be safe. And remember everyone, that if we all work together, when accomplish anything you have
[00:40:28] Speaker B: been listening to, let's be diverse with Andrew Stout to stay up to date with future content. Hit Subscribe.
