Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Opinions expressed in this episode are personal. They do not necessarily reflect the views.
[00:00:05] Speaker B: Of this streaming platform.
[00:00:10] Speaker A: Good day, everyone, and welcome to another edition of let's Be Diverse. I am your host, Andrew Stout. This episode is dedicated to all my loved ones who supported me through this journey. Those who have left us will always be in our hearts and will never be forgotten. Today our topic is Accountability with Purpose, and I'm super honored and excited to have on as our guest to talk about this great topic. Genevieve. Let's laugh. Welcome to the show, Genevieve. It is pleasure and an honor to have you on today.
[00:00:42] Speaker B: Thank you for having me. I'm honored, truly. It's a real pleasure. It's been a long time coming, so I'm glad we can do this now.
[00:00:49] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. How were things with you, Genevieve? What's new in your world? Give us the tea, give us the deets. Give us it all. What's going on in Genevieve's world?
[00:00:58] Speaker B: Yeah, thanks. You know, there's so much in my world right now, I wouldn't even know where to start. But what is very exciting is that I recently completed a project. I'm an organizational design consultant and also a certified transformational coach. And I have gone into the world of sports and entertainment because I know we'll talk about this in a second, but I come from that world, and so now I kind of. It's kind of coming back to me now, and I've helped a stadium create some space and capacity for them to host the FIFA World cup and large concerts like Taylor Swift and stuff. So it's been so exciting. And so I kind of made that my mission. And now I'm starting a new project again with somebody, another provider that is looking to make space in that. So it seems like, you know, when you feel like you're in the flow, things are just, like, grooving along. You're just surfing that wave. Things are coming, and it's easy and it's in the flow. It just feels so good. Right? And so that's. That's how you catch me today, Andrew. In the flow.
[00:02:06] Speaker A: That is awesome. I love the in the flow. I love that. I love to hear that things are going well, and that's super cool that you're in that realm of sports and entertainment. I'm sure you meet so many amazing people, and. And I get to talk to so many different people, so I love that. That's pretty cool.
[00:02:21] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:02:22] Speaker A: Well, I'm glad to hear that things are going well for you. I'm so excited to get into this Conversation. But before we begin, I always have a fun, thought provoking question to ask my guest to get things going. Are you ready for your stage? And Viv?
[00:02:35] Speaker B: I am ready. Little nervous, but okay.
[00:02:38] Speaker A: So my question to you is, what do you wish you spent more time doing five years ago?
[00:02:44] Speaker B: Oh, my God. Yeah, I know. I wish I was doing a lot more mindful, like, mindfulness practice. I wish I was better at that. Five years ago I discovered that I did. Like, I hired a mindfulness coach three years ago and it was like so transformative and it calmed down the restless inside of me to be able to actually be more productive. It's so silly because I thought like, keeping myself busy was the way to be productive, but it's actually so counterproductive, so. So I, yeah, that's what I would do differently for sure.
[00:03:19] Speaker A: Such an amazing answer. We have this mindset, I need to get this stuff done or I'm not getting all the stuff I want done or I'm not getting anything done. It's. It's so bad on the brain because when you're always feeling like you not getting stuff done, it just gets to you. I know myself, I'll take a little bit of stuff and I'll say, hey, I didn't get everything done, but I got this, this, and this done. I'm happy that I got what I wanted to do throughout the day. So instead of being like, oh my God, I didn't get all that done.
[00:03:49] Speaker B: You need to do more and more and more always.
[00:03:52] Speaker A: You can always do more. Right?
[00:03:54] Speaker B: But, yeah, I know.
[00:03:56] Speaker A: Well, thanks so much for having fun with me, Genevieve. I really appreciate your fun answer and you were pretty quick on that, so I appreciate that. Why don't we start off with you telling us a little about you, yourself and your story?
[00:04:08] Speaker B: Sure. I've been in HR forever. Like, I studied HR and I went straight into work in that field. So I was lucky to start with Cirque du Soleil in my career. So just after university, that was my first job in HR coordinator. It was pretty exciting.
And then within Cirque, I went, you know, Cirque has touring shows. And then all of a sudden I found myself like, all free of different things. So I being exposed to the touring world when you're in the, you know, in Cirque du Soleil. And that kind of made me want to travel around.
So I intentionally left my full time job to get a temporary work on tour so I could travel with the circus with the hope that that would give me enough experience That a full time work would come up on tour as well. And so I took that leap and it really paid off. So I went in my late 20s, I toured for a couple years with Cirque. I was in the tour management office doing a bit of hr, but a little bit of everything else. And then when my tour ended then I was kind of at a crossroad. Do I, I could go back on another show and continue that type of life or I could just try normal life again and then go back to hr. There was a position open just at that moment at the headquarters back at Cirque. So back where I started, but you know, as a promotion. So I, yeah, I went for normal life and then moved to Germany, moved to the film industry and then I moved to Germany after I met my German husband. I lived there for eight years and that's where I started my own business. That's where it took, got me to take a step back to think like, is this what I want? Is there, there's something that's just not resonating, you know, I don't feel I know this better for me than this like rat race of like always, you know, we were just saying, right, keeping yourself busy and there's just so much. And it was a lot of stress. And with two kids now after, at that point I was like, so I started my own business, did some HR consulting, did some recruiting. And then I was noticing a pattern, right? Like I was not the only one feeling like that. Like there was so many people and now you know by now that the biggest competitors to employers is self employment. Right. So how do we, how do we prevent this from happening? And it was like more in the human touch, right? Like it's more on the emotional side of things. So I was so inspired by what I was finding. I was like, I think I have the answers, but I just did not have the certification to do it properly. So I went on to get my coaching certification. So then I could, you know, keep, you know, just being certified and more educated around how to help people. And so that kind of moved me into the world of coaching. And now it feels like after all of that I'm bringing like now what I said, like the work that I'm doing, the sports and entertainment really brings my coaching experience as an executive and leadership coach and also career coach. Understanding what's going on in people's mind when they want to leave employers. But also the whole HR piece. So that's how I got into organizational design. Yeah, I know. So it's a long story, but it's. It also ties into my why, you know, like, that's why I do this. I really, truly believe there's a better way to do this. And I feel privileged enough that I am in a position where I can. And I want to help, to move away from old ways that don't work anymore.
[00:07:43] Speaker A: Your story makes me smile, Genevieve, because I feel what you're saying, that there are lots of people who are just unsure of what they want to do. But I feel like more and more people are seeking more help from people.
I will say that a good leader will be vulnerable and ask for help when they're unsure or something. More people are realizing that I don't know how to do this or I need help in this, and they're getting the help that they need for that particular thing. Even coaches and interviews, you know, used to hear them talking about strategy and tactics, but they're talking more and more about leadership and stuff like that. And it's super cool to hear that because it is such a. It's an important aspect, but it wasn't talked about years ago. Amazing for me to hear that in sports and entertainment and everywhere. It's. I think it goes hand in hand with everything.
[00:08:38] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Change in the workplace is, like, accelerated like crazy, right? Like, if you look at the last 200 years, like, in the last 10 years is like, there was more transformation there than in the last. The previous 50 years. It's pretty insane. So I feel very privileged to be in that time and work. The work I do is also very linked to that.
[00:08:59] Speaker A: So let's get into this here. We're talking about accountability here today. So I want to hear your thoughts. What is counterbit? What is accountability and what is its purpose?
[00:09:08] Speaker B: Well, I just want to, you know, you. You and I both speak French too, right. And I also speak German. And what I find interesting, first of all, with the word, is that it's. It's in the English language, but it doesn't exist in all languages. Like French and German. You will use, like, the equivalent of responsibilization kind of thing. Like, it's not even a word in English, but, you know, it's like using the word responsible, it doesn't translate very well. So I really love that we get to work in an English language where it's an actual word and an actual thing and it's got a purpose and it's different from being responsible.
And I believe accountability is the practice of taking responsibility for actions. And awareness is awareness. That something must change is nothing without accountability. So it's kind of at the core of actions and then that's, you know, I am an ICF accredited coach and just, I know it's very coachy as languages, but ICF is the international coaching federation. And the reason why I really truly believe in the work do and I'm accredited is that, you know, differentiates you from a self made coach. First of all because they work to, you know, make the profession with a better reputation. But also there is a big piece of the coaching process that is accountability. So in each coaching session that I would do, I would keep 15 minutes of that, let's say hour or 90 minutes for accountability because it's so important. You want like coaching is about reaching your goals. But also tell me how you're going to keep yourself accountable. And it's not me saying like put that in your calendar or something. What works for you? What is an accountability method that works for you and that makes a world of difference.
And in the consulting work that I do in organizational design, I use the RACI matrix. I don't know if you're familiar but you know, like this, like who's accountable, who's responsible, who needs to be consulted and informed. And so you make the distinction. So it's that not you can delegate tasks always. And I would say you need a delegation system but you can't delegate accountability. There's a big distinction to be made there. And it's like if you're a parent and you have kids, you send them to school with a school bus, then who's, you know, who's accountable for your kids Once you put them in the school bus, it's still the parents, but the school bus driver is responsible to take your kids to school. Do you know what I mean? Like it's very different.
Yeah, yeah, does that.
[00:11:33] Speaker A: I love your answer and I love taking responsibility of our actions. It makes me think of for example, in a work setting, you're sitting on a one on one, you are the leader and you're doing a review process and you were saying to them this is how you did. And then at the end you see yourself in the next five years, what trainings would you like to to do? You're making the employee accountable for that. Because then the following year you can say, hey, this is what we looked at last year, how did it go? So almost like a review of stuff or if you're having a meeting and you say let's meet in a couple of weeks, but you say let's do this, do this and do this. Then it's like, okay, how did this go? How did this go? How did this go? So you're making each other accountable for the action. So the employee is accountable for what needs to be done, and the leader is accountable for not only putting those stuff out, but making sure that they go back and see how things are going. Because if you don't ask them how things went, then, you know, it's forgotten. And then they might not think, oh, well, they wanted me to do this, but maybe, you know, they don't think it's important enough for me to do it. So you have to show that important.
[00:12:44] Speaker B: Yeah, I love that you bring that up because what you're talking about is the follow up. Like, where does the follow up fall into? Right? Like, if you're accountable, then you need to make sure this happens and then you need to follow through by. Follow by following.
[00:12:58] Speaker A: Absolutely. So listen, now that we know what accountability is, we know that a lot of people struggle with it. So what's the most difficult thing about accountability that you see?
[00:13:09] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, accountability is so hard. And, you know, I, it depends where I get the person. You know, there are some people who are thrown into coaching, say, yeah, you need to see a coach because you need to improve this. It doesn't come from their own willingness. Then it's just so much harder. Right. Than if you, you realize yourself and then you have, you're more in the growth mindset going, like, I need to improve this because I want to get better at this. First of all, there's that. But also, you know, Andrew, you were touching a bit upon that a little earlier. Like, humans are just not very good at admitting they made mistakes. Sometimes the ego, you know, gets in the way. And, and also, like, you know, scientists will confirm that our brains will naturally do whatever they can do to justify our action.
And so when you try to be accountable for change, then that gets in the way too, Right? You want to justify, oh, it's fine, it's the same with anything, even if you try to go to the gym, but, you know, I was feeling too tired. And then you justify it to yourself or these kind of things. Right? So that's why it's, it's hard, you know, and yeah, it's just not part of our DNA. Maybe, you know.
[00:14:16] Speaker A: No, it's not for sure. If you're a leader, you're telling somebody, oh, you need training in this. It's way different than the employee saying to the leader, this is where I Want to be in a few years. And I feel like this training can help me get there. Are we able to set that up for me so that I can do that training so I can get to that stage in my life or get that experience? And we talk about mindset. There's growth mindset as well.
Getting that growth so that they can continuously be engaged.
[00:14:49] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Growth mindset is. It's kind of the premise, really.
[00:14:54] Speaker A: Yeah, it certainly is. I think the difficulty that they might have too is that they don't understand the accountability part. Right. They feel like you're accountable, but they're not taking the accountability on themselves as well. When we're a kid, we played follow the leader. You're following the leader. So if a leader is doing something a certain way, well, you're gonna follow that. So if you are accountable or taking accountability for something, well, then the employee is going to take accountability for it. If you're not taking accountability for it, they're not going to.
[00:15:29] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. No, that's so true. Yeah. And it's. It. I mean, it also needs to be clear, right? That's often like, you think it's clear for your team. You think it's clear for everyone. But did you really mention it? Do you have a process? Are you intentional about it? Like, that's all things that people should, you know, leaders should ask themselves, like, is, is it clear to everyone who's accountable, who's responsible?
[00:15:53] Speaker A: Absolutely. You just mentioned clear. Do you find that leaders struggle? Like, is it a communication thing? Like when. When we're talking about accountability?
[00:16:02] Speaker B: I mean, to my knowledge and experience working with them, it's more awareness. Once they're aware, then they're like, oh, oh, okay, then they can take action easier.
Sometimes they're just not aware. They just, as I said, matter of fact, think it's clear for everyone by default because it's clear to them. So it's just once you're aware, it's like maybe you just need to be more intentional in your communication in order to bring awareness to your team as well.
[00:16:30] Speaker A: So, I mean, I guess the assumption factor, right. We can't assume that when you're. When you're putting something out there or when you're designing a process, we can't assume that they're going to be clear. We have to fully make sure that they fully understand and that it is clear enough so that they don't come back and say, well, you didn't make that clear enough or I didn't understand that, or whatever communicated In a way that everybody understands.
[00:16:54] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. And then that brings another piece, right? You talk about communication. It's like, how do your team members want to be communicated to, like, what works best for them? And there's like so many tools nowadays, Andrew. Like, for sure. If you want to solve that problem and be aware of how each of the individual you know will receive information best and, and, and understand where you're coming from is also how it's delivered to each of the person. So not just like, oh, I said it once, should be fine, but maybe it didn't come out. You know, it didn't land properly. You know, it didn't land how it was intended. And a lot of the work we do in coaching is also understanding what is your intention and how it could be per.
By people. Right. By your team members. How do they perceive what you intend today? Is this jiving or is this, is there a discrepancy between your intention and their understanding?
[00:17:49] Speaker A: For sure, for sure. So what do you think accountability is going to look like in the future?
[00:17:53] Speaker B: Oh, I have such high hope. I have such high hope because Gen Z is our answer. Andrew. I know, like, there's just this whole controversy of like, well, Gen Z, Z this, Gen Z that. But you know what they are, they are the future leaders. And I, I just, that's what I tell my clients. Like, there's, there's nothing you can do. You cannot mold them. Like you need to mold to them. They, they coming in much bigger numbers. You know, like you're fading out and they're coming in. So, and then for Gen Z's, and I have a couple data, a couple data pieces for you, but sure, absolutely.
Gen Z. So for Gen Z, accountability is very highly correlated to organizational trust. You see, 45 of young people surveyed say that if a leader is not accountable, they can't trust the organization. But like they really link the two together.
65% say that strong leaders own their mistakes and work to make things right. The growth mindset again. Right. Like, they also believe the same for their own conduct. It's not like they expect it from others, but they, they, you know, they walk the talk.
And even the 66% believe in taking responsibility for their mistakes and trying to resolve them. So not only like, okay, I want to admit them, but like, what do you do once you've admitted it? Right. So yeah, I'm super hopeful. I think, I think accountability is just going to go up and up because it is going to be a new norm very, very soon. And it should be by now. But you know, people need to change and change is hard.
[00:19:25] Speaker A: You know that I'm seeing it more and more that leaders are becoming a little bit more vulnerable or they're showing their vulnerability. And you just said it before about owning your own mistakes or saying, you know, this is on me, let's fix it, you know, instead of pinning it on somebody else or pinning it on an employee. And you'll have to watch your back so your boss doesn't see that, you know, made the mistake. If you can be vulnerable at these percentages that you just said to me there, that, that just tells me all about vulnerability. I mean, showing your genuine and showing your vulnerability.
[00:19:58] Speaker B: Yeah. Make this right.
[00:20:01] Speaker A: People are going to see that right away and they'll gravitate to that.
[00:20:05] Speaker B: Yeah. If they, if they, if, if you do 100% and. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, sorry, carry on. I just lost my train of thought.
[00:20:13] Speaker A: That's, that's okay. So listen, this has been a really good conversation. I've really enjoyed it. In closing, what is one takeaway that you like our listeners to, to take from this episode as far as accountability goes?
[00:20:25] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I want to touch back upon what you just said about vulnerability. And I guess we would be in a such, I mean, the workplace would be in a such better place if people could switch their perception of vulnerability and see this as a strength, it's a superpower. And an accountability comes with vulnerability. So vulnerability can only come from self awareness, you see, like it kind of all ties into that. First you need to be aware what's going on. And self awareness is the first step to understanding how to create change for yourself and then for others.
Right. So once you're self aware, you can start identifying how you can create small changes in your life in your way. You lead in your team, in your organization, so you can, it starts really with oneself. So if there's one thing you can take away is that, is that the more self aware you are, the more you can recognize your biases and what's going on with yourself, within yourself, like in your own body sometimes. Like we have, we have a leadership program, my colleague and I, Julie, that we, we walk people through the three stages of leadership development, which we start first with leading yourself and then you can lead others and then you can bring your organization forward. You know, like, I think it really goes step, step by step. And within leading yourself, we talk about recognizing when you're triggered because we're all humans. Like we're triggered all day long, all Day long. And then you have a reaction and you're just so accustomed to dealing with that reaction that you don't notice that it could be a problem. So once you're self, aware, you're like. And then you will physically feel it, right? You'll physically like. If you have a boundary problem, you'll have, you will feel it. I don't know, some people will feel it in their chest. Some people will have kind of a big pit in their tummy. So people will have moist hands or like, how do you feel? Your boundaries are being crushed, just as an example. And so if you're aware of that, then you can start, you know, implementing some changes. So anyway, that's my takeaway. I think self awareness comes first and then you can become more accountable, more vulnerable, and then accountable.
[00:22:34] Speaker A: I love, I love all of that. I 100% on board on that vulnerability and being genuine. I am a firm believer of being genuine. I think genuine. Being genuine is super important. I don't think you, you know, you can be.
I don't think it's good to be different in different aspects because then people will say, oh, he's so different here than he, than he is in this way. I try to be the same person everywhere. So that way people's like, is Andrew. And Andrew, this is what you get in person on the phone, listening to him speaking on his podcast. Anywhere in a meeting. Doesn't matter where you, where you are, where, what setting you're in. This is who he is and this is how he is. And that's exactly. I think that's super important.
[00:23:17] Speaker B: And you know what, like, if you are not like that, if you think you should behave in a different way then at work, I mean, a lot of people think like that, right? There's like this person, this me at work, there's me with my family. There's two different personalities, two different people. But technically it's not right, like you're the same person. But if you're trying to be someone else, it just takes so much more of your energy and that you can only know by becoming self aware once again.
[00:23:44] Speaker A: And people see that too, right? People see that when you're different. They see that.
[00:23:49] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:23:49] Speaker A: You know, it's so, yeah, it's, it's so important to be who you are. So. Yeah, I really appreciate you coming on today. I really enjoyed this conversation and the first conversation that we had.
[00:24:02] Speaker B: Yeah, likewise.
[00:24:03] Speaker A: So pleasant, so, so comfortable and I really enjoyed interacting with you and I was super excited when you said yes. I really wanted to have you on here today and I thank you for taking the time to come on here today. You are a true gem and I really appreciate you and everything that you do.
[00:24:21] Speaker B: Thank you. Likewise. Andrew. Thank you so much for having me on. And yeah, I look forward to connecting again soon.
[00:24:29] Speaker A: Absolutely.
In those who don't understand just told it is a pleasure. It was a pleasure to meet her until on behalf of myself and my guest Genevieve, I'd like to thank you all for listening today. Until next time, be safe and remember that if we all work together, we can accomplish Anyone you have been listening to.
[00:24:51] Speaker B: Let's Be Diverse with Andrew Stout to.
[00:24:54] Speaker A: Stay up to date with future content, hit Subscribe.
