Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Opinions expressed in this episode are personal. They do not necessarily reflect the views of this streaming platform.
[00:00:09] Speaker B: Good day, everyone, and welcome to another edition of let's Be Diverse. I am your host, Andrew Stout. This episode is dedicated to all my loved ones who've supported me through this journey. Those who have left us will always be in our hearts and will never be forgotten. During these troubled times over the past few years, we find ourselves seeking support and direction with so many looking to others for guidance. How can we, as leaders be the best that we can be? In this episode, we will be discussing uncertainty in leadership and My guest today is Sam Goodwin. Welcome to the show, Sam. It is a tremendous honor to have you on as my guest today.
[00:00:53] Speaker A: Thanks, Andrew. It's great to be here.
[00:00:55] Speaker B: It's great to have you. How are things with you, Sam? What's going on with you? Give me the tea, the deets, give me it all. What's going on?
[00:01:02] Speaker A: Thanks. Yeah, everything is, is going well. I am, I live in D.C. but I'm recording today in from St. Louis, which is my hometown, and I'm just back visiting my parents for a few days. So, so everything is great and, and just happy to be chatting with you.
[00:01:21] Speaker B: Wonderful. Yes, it's happy to be chatting with you as well. We connected on LinkedIn and we had a couple conversations back and forth. So it's, it's great to have you on here today. And I'm so anxious to get into this conversation. But before we do, I always have a fun, thought provoking question that I ask all my guests to get things going. Are you ready for yours today, Sam?
[00:01:43] Speaker A: I'm ready. Let's do it.
[00:01:45] Speaker B: So your question today is what is the best advice you've ever received?
[00:01:50] Speaker A: The best advice I've ever received is the quickest way to be unhappy is to live our lives and make decisions based on other people's judgments.
[00:02:03] Speaker B: I love that. I love that. And that is so profound, Sam, because we, we always make. So I see that in the world today that people make so many assumptions about others and people don't understand what's going on with.
And so yes, I totally agree with you. I'm 100 on board on that one. That is a, a great answer. I love that.
[00:02:24] Speaker A: It's, it's very easy, especially from behind a screen, to reduce someone down to an unconfirmed set of assumptions.
[00:02:33] Speaker B: Right, right. I totally agree with you. 100 on that. Well, thanks for having fun with me some. I totally appreciate that. Why don't we start off with you telling us a Little about yourself and of course, your.
[00:02:44] Speaker A: Why, Sure, a little bit. I mean, so I'm originally from and grew up in St. Louis, Midwest, United States. I went to undergrad at Niagara University in upstate New York. I played hockey there. From there, I spent seven years living and working overseas. Six in Singapore, one in Dubai.
I recently published a book called. And that book is about.
It's about my journey. And from 2010 to 2020, much of which I spent living and working overseas, I traveled every country in the world. And like any worthwhile venture or endeavor in life that wasn't without its challenges. And perhaps Most notably in 2019, when I was in Syria, as part of my journey, I was taken hostage and the situation got pretty uncomfortable. I was held for nine weeks, but thank God, thanks to a long list of people who work tirelessly, the situation ended peacefully. And in the wake of that, I did write a book that talks about this, this journey. And today I've kind of taken my experiences and consolidated them into my business today, which is. Which is speaking. Most of my work is corporate work. I speak at conferences, conventions, and my primary pillar is uncertainty. And I was, in my experiences, was pushed to a point of overwhelming uncertainty, truly life or death. But through that, I learned some things, Some things that have helped me and some things that I think can help all of us when we're facing our own breeds of uncertainty and our personal, professional, and spiritual lives. So it's kind of a quick snapshot. I'm the oldest of five, so I have. I have two younger brothers, two younger sisters. We're. We're spread out, but all very close and come from a Catholic family in the Midwest United States. And. And that's kind of a snapshot, but happy to be here talking with, with you today, Andrew.
[00:04:47] Speaker B: Such a great story. And, you know, to go on to your story, there is a. An episode that I did watch which is what originally connected me to you. For those in Canada, if you have an opportunity to check it out, it was on. Which is where. Which is where I watched it and where I originally connected with Sam. And I was just talking to him before we started taping. I actually messaged him during the episode that I was watching it with my wife. I messaged him and he responded back very quickly. And we connected and we started conversing and having conversations from there. So your story is super inspiring. And you talk about uncertainty. It's a great segue to our conversation today because we just don't know, especially during, you know, not just in our uncertain times. That we're going through or we have gone through, but also too, especially in the workplace, there is so many unsettling times and situations where we don't know where to go and we look for people to, to guide us and to lead us through those, through those times. And if we don't have anybody to guide us through those times, then it makes us or a lot more difficult for us for sure. So I love your story. Thank you so much for sharing that.
It's a, like I said, a great segue. Let's jump into the first question here. We are talking about uncertainty today.
How do leaders lead teams through uncertainty?
[00:06:15] Speaker A: Well, first of all, thanks for watching that, that episode. My family and I really enjoyed working with W5 and TSN and in Canada. Just, just great, great people and really were interested in sharing the story for the right reasons. And, and it was a real positive experience. So we have a ton of respect for them. Really enjoyed that, that project and experience.
So my primary theme today, what I speak about, is uncertainty. And there are three key things that I think answer your question or at least in my view are, are important when it comes to uncertainty and leading through it. That the title of my presentations is Winning through Uncertainty. And the primary pillars that I talk about, primary themes around winning through uncertainty are leaning into gratitude, controlling things that we can control, and recognizing uncertainty as an opportunity. And these three things collectively, they helped me at a very tough time, very truly rock bottom, figurative, figuratively and literally. And I think they can be helpful to all of us in when we're facing our own, our own situations. And that's what I try to communicate today. I don't feel so much survivor's guilt as I feel what I would characterize as survivor's responsibility. And I try to reflect on what I experience and pull out lessons and messages that could be helpful to others today. And those three points, they help me and I think they can help others too.
[00:07:51] Speaker B: I love that one of the things that jumped out at me, I love all three key things. The one that really jumped out at me is leaning into gratitude. You know, we are so, we're always so grateful about people and, or what people do, things people do for others or for us. But some people I think, have trouble with that or they, I don't know if they struggle with what to say or how to say it or when to say it. And I don't because I'm in the leadership space. I will say, you know, specifically in the workplace, people struggle with that as well because they, they Don't. They don't know when to, to celebrate their successes and have gratitude for it and, or look the other way. And I feel like people struggle with that.
[00:08:41] Speaker A: I think the most important virtue is gratitude. I think the second most important is curiosity, which is a different conversation. But the problem or the challenge that I think a lot of people have with gratitude is they lack perspective. And I'm trying to get people to practice reframing their perspective, especially when facing challenges and uncertainty.
I'll ask you this, or anyone who's listening. You know, if there was a list that ranked every person in the world based on overall success and happiness from 1 to 8 billion, where do you rank? Where do I rank when I. I'm so happy in life because I literally play this game all the time. And being content and grateful for what we have and not envious for what we don't have while still being ambitious is a different way to, to think about being satisfied.
[00:09:38] Speaker B: Well, to answer your question, as far as myself, I don't know how. Where I would rank in the, the, the one to billion, but I could tell you, if I was going to say a scale of 1 to 10, I would definitely say a 10, because I am grateful for everything. I'm grateful my parents are no longer with us, but I am grateful for what they did for me and what they, you know, what they instilled in my life. And, you know, I am, I feel like I. The person and the individual that they wanted to instill in me. I'm grateful for my family, grateful for my wife, grateful for the opportunities, grateful for the conversations that I've had the ability to have is so profound in my life. I, I can't tell you how many great conversations and how many amazing individuals I've had the opportunity to meet. So super grateful for all of that. For sure.
[00:10:29] Speaker A: Yeah. Fantastic. As I said, I think it's the most important virtue. So I love that, that you're channeling that seemingly every day.
[00:10:36] Speaker B: I certainly do. So super important and something that I think that we should definitely have take a chance to sit back and, and think about. And I even had somebody that told me once, you know, you know, sit down and hey, you know, okay, today I'm grateful for, da da da da, da, da, da da da. And then maybe the next day it might be something different. But, you know, just saying those things out loud, I feel it definitely helps because I know I do that myself, and it definitely does help. For sure. For sure.
So do you think that you think leaders understand uncertainty Because I feel like we go to people for guidance, but do they understand the significance that people or individuals would have? Uncertainty. Uncertainty. Or they are uncertain about what's going on around them.
[00:11:33] Speaker A: Uncertainty is a big topic, but I say that uncertainty is a horrible thing to waste.
As an athlete, entrepreneur, traveler, hostage, I will tell you there's value and opportunity in every experience. And that's why the third point that I, that I mentioned was recognizing uncertainty as an opportunity. And I think as leaders, if we shift our mindset to think about it that way, then that can help us win during those times.
[00:12:05] Speaker B: I believe I agree with you 100% there as well. Because you know, if you're, and I think if you're having those conversations, like you said, it's a big win. It might not be. I said it's a horrible thing, a horrible situation, but it is a win if we are there and we are, have the ability and we are available to have those one on ones or have those conversations to find out what people are thinking and, and to guide them through that uncertainty. I don't know about you, Sam, but that would be a, you know, like you said, a win, win. And I would feel so overwhelmed with joy to be, you know, to be able to have the opportunity to listen to somebody and to be able to guide them and to help them through whatever is on their mind.
[00:12:51] Speaker A: Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense.
[00:12:53] Speaker B: How does uncertainty affect diversity in your mind?
[00:12:58] Speaker A: Gosh, I would say something that comes to mind when I hear that question is just my travel experience and I feel fortunate. I've traveled every country in the world, all 193 countries, and of course experienced a lot of diversity from cultures, food, history, everything throughout that experience. And a couple of the key things that I learned through my travels are that one is to never judge people by the actions of their government.
I've learned that people who have the least often give the most something that I've found in all corners of the world. And I've learned that every person's why is the same. We all eat, sleep, breathe, want to be happy, are chasing some kind of goal. Perhaps most importantly, I've learned that we're all the overwhelming majority of people in the world are well intentioned, proud of their country, happy to help others, and we are all fundamentally the same. So when it comes to diversity, I think that those things are things that we can keep in mind when, when, when working to consider the things that come with, with that situation.
[00:14:10] Speaker B: When you said never judge other people's actions, I, I What jumped out at me, I said earlier, and I talked about earlier about assumptions. So my thought or something that I truly believe in is diversity of thought. So, first of all, we have to respect other people's thoughts and. And. And their beliefs. The other thing that I think is that we have to.
We can't assume that because, like you said, other people's governments or other people's actions or other people's, you know, thoughts or ideas.
It's just because they think that way. And maybe we are friendly with them or we get along with them or let alone, Sam, we have lunch with them. And because, you know, because we have lunch, if I have lunch with you, you know, it doesn't mean that I'm gonna have the same. Maybe have the same thoughts as you did or have the same experiences that you had because I sat and had lunch with you. It just means that we have a, you know, common liking, common goals. We, you know, we enjoy having a conversation. So doesn't mean that I'm going to automatically think like you do. It just means that I enjoy your company. So I think that we. I agree with you. The judgment factor is something that we definitely have to look at a little bit more personally and understand why we're doing that and maybe take a little bit of time to. To understand not just why, but how we can not do that.
[00:15:41] Speaker A: Yeah, I think you're. I think you're right, Andrew. I think that makes a lot of sense.
[00:15:45] Speaker B: In closing here. I want to get your thoughts here, you know, and I'm going to let you take the stage here. What is one takeaway that you want the audience to get from this episode? And you can go into your. Your talks, your speech, whatever the floor is yours here, Sam?
[00:16:03] Speaker A: Sure. I would say that I think that we're all stronger and more resilient than we can imagine. And uncertain times are exactly what we need in order to grow.
People ask me quite a bit, Sam, if you could go back, would you still travel the way you did or do anything differently? And on one hand, I would never want to relive captivity and wouldn't wish that on anybody. But on the other hand, and I think more importantly, I would also never want to give up everything that's come from it. The opportunity to meet some remarkable people like you here today, which would have never happened without this. To. To grow in character and in faith and in really just understanding of the stuff in life that actually matters. And those two things go together. And, you know, we could be.
We could be held hostage by anything. Alcohol, drugs, illness, relationships, injuries, finances. But the, the way that we embrace and manage those challenges, the actions we take, I think that defines who we become and from where we begin again. So I would, I guess those would be some of the things that, that, that I hope some of the listeners may take away and apply into their own lives.
[00:17:27] Speaker B: I love that and I love the fact that you, that you say that you would never, you wouldn't want to give up anything that came from it. And I know a lot of people would probably. There's a lot of people, I'm sure that if in your situation or if it happened to them, they probably would say, oh, my God, I wouldn't want to. I wouldn't want to go back there. I wouldn't want to. Being that I wouldn't want that to happen to me. I wouldn't want to go through the distress and the uncertainty of the situation and am I ever going to get back home?
I would never want to do that again. So I can definitely see some people's viewpoint on that. But what I love about what you're saying is that you learned from the situation and you took considerable amount of stuff from this situation, and that has put you in the stature and the situation that you are in today. Because if it didn't happen, you still might be doing what you're doing now, public speaking and stuff like that. But I think your, your overall grasp of the situation has put you in a different light. Like I'll say an example for me, when my, you know, my, both my parents passed away, like I said earlier, probably in the last seven or eight years, and I am a different person because of it. It's changed me dramatically. So I can be positive to say that that situation changed you as an individual. You were probably at different person or you became a different person in 2019 than you were, let's say, in 2015. 16. There's such a profound amount of things that you learned from that in that experience and that uncertainty that has led you to where you are today.
[00:19:22] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And, and I've been fortunate to be surrounded by a lot of great people. None of this could have happened alone.
I will mention that I recently, I mentioned this a few minutes ago, but I, I recently published a book. And in the book there's more about all of the things that I've talked about, more about the drama, the story and the takeaways. And again, I got one hand. This book is, it's a. It includes this travel journey to every country in the world, heads of state, high stakes diplomacy, celebrities. But on the other hand, and I think more importantly, it's about what we all learn through this experience that we believe can help others today. It's about how we can all turn our own challenges and adversities into assets and opportunities. And I hope that the book will equip readers to adopt a similar mindset and implement it into their own personal, professional and spiritual lives. The book's called Saving Sam.
[00:20:23] Speaker B: Well, I'm definitely going to put that in the show notes for people to check out for sure because I definitely think it would be a good read and I definitely think it'd be something that I think people will definitely enjoy. So I'll definitely put that in the show notes for people to to check out and all the information that will instill for people to, to connect with you and have a conversation with you because I'm sure that people will enjoy having conversation as much as that as I did, for sure. So I definitely will do that.
[00:20:49] Speaker A: Thank you. And I'll just say if anybody listening wants to get in touch with me, please feel free to reach out. I'm on all the, the normal social media channels and, and I would love to hear from you. Please feel free to, to to do that. It'd be great to be connected.
[00:21:05] Speaker B: Wonderful. Well, listen, I want to take the time to thank you for coming on as well. Like I said earlier, we reached out. I reached out when I watched that episode. I was super thrilled that you responded back to me. We, since that time we're trying to get this episode organized and through that time we're conversing back and forth and it's been a real joy to, to get to know you and to, to, to. To look at your story, to hear your story and then to talk to the person who, whose story it's about. It's, it's super inspiring to me to, to meet you and to, to converse with you today. So thank you so much for, for your time and your grace. You're greatly appreciated for sure.
[00:21:53] Speaker A: Likewise. It was my pleasure. Andrew, thank you so much.
[00:21:56] Speaker B: So on behalf of myself and my guest Sam, I'd like to take the time to thank you all for listening today. And until next time, be safe. And remember everyone that if we all work together, together we can accomplish anything.
You have been listening to.
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