Leadership Starts With Conversations We Have With Ourselves

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Before we dive in today's episode, I want to take a moment to share something that's been on my heart, something I've been working on behind the scenes for a while now. I'm officially writing a book. This book is called let's Be A Practical Guide to Leading Through Change. And it's deeply personal to me. It's built from real experiences. The uncertainty, the challenges, the moments where I didn't have the answers but had to lead. This isn't just a leadership book filled with theory. It's about navigating uncertainty when there's no clear direction, building internal clarity when everything around us feels unclear, having courageous conversations, even when they're uncomfortable, and leading with value, especially when it's the hardest to do so. I'm also going into topics that don't get talked about enough, like what it feels like to be challenged, overlooked, and even bullied as an adult in a workplace. And how those moments shape the kind of leader you become. This book is for anyone who's ever thought, how do I lead when I don't feel ready? How do I show up when I don't have all the answers? And how do I stay true to myself in environments that challenge me? If this is you, this book is for you. I'll be sharing more about the journey behind the scenes moments and opportunities for you to be part of it as we go. So stay tuned because this is more than just a book. It's a movement around how we lead through change together. All right, let's get to today's episode. [00:01:25] Speaker B: Opinions expressed in this episode are personal. They do not necessarily reflect the views of this streaming platform. [00:01:35] Speaker A: Good day, everyone and welcome to another edition. Let's be diverse. I am your host, Andrew Stout. This episode is dedicated to all my loved ones who've supported me through this journey. Those who have left us will always be in our hearts and will never be forgotten. Today our topic is leadership starts with conversation you have with yourself. And our guest today is one fantastic human. Her name is Liz Doyle Harmer. Liz, welcome to the show. Thanks for joining us today. [00:02:03] Speaker B: Thank you, Andrew. I'm already feeling just heart open. I love the way you started with a dedication right at the beginning. So thank you for having me here, Andrew. I'm excited to be here. [00:02:13] Speaker A: I appreciate that. And the reason why I do that, for all the listeners or people from the past, I have had some family members who have passed on and I just want to make sure that you know that they're remembered, that they're never forgotten, that they're always remembered. So. And that they're with us. They were with us in the beginning of the podcast and they're never forgotten. So that's why I do. That's why. So, yeah. How are things with you? What's been energizing you these days, Liz? Give us the, give us the deets, give us it all. What's going on? [00:02:41] Speaker B: So what's energizing me is my morning run. It's something I've done for a really long time. And I run in winter and spring and cold and warmth and lately I'm really loving the sunrise in the morning, loving the flowers coming out. I'm seeing tulips, I'm seeing color. I'm hearing birds. When I go out in the morning now, it's really, I'm just loving, I'm loving this time of year. I'm just, I, I go out and I'm in awe. I, I can't believe, look at all this nature around. I absolutely love it. It's giving me a lot of energy. [00:03:13] Speaker A: Yeah, it's so nice to hear, especially the birds. A friend of mine was teasing me a couple of weeks ago as I was talking about the birds, how quiet it is, especially when you go out of the city and you hear the birds chirping in the morning. So it's kind of like saying to me, oh, that's so nice. But it is, right? It's, it inspired being in the big city where the traffic is. You hear the traffic all the time. It's kind of like a way to relax. So I agree with you 100 wholeheartedly that it is nice to, to do that. And it's great that you to do that. And that's probably your time to shine and to do what you, what you need to do. [00:03:45] Speaker B: It's such a mental and emotional and physical reset for me. All three layers. It really is my, my most precious time of the day. One of one of them anyways. I have children. I should, I should not forget them. Those are also precious times. [00:03:59] Speaker A: Oh my, my late mom always had her like, loved her time. She'd always get up early in the morning before everybody else got up because that was her time to relax and read the paper and exercise whatever type thing. So I grew up knowing that moms need their time regardless. So I'm glad that you, I'm glad that you do that. Glad you do that. Well, thanks so much for sharing with us. Before we begin, always have a fun, thought provoking question that I ask all my guests to get things Going. Liz, are you ready for yours today? [00:04:31] Speaker B: I'm ready. I'm excited. I know it's a surprise. I love how you do this. [00:04:34] Speaker A: So I just asked this on a recent episode, and I thought it would be great for you as well. If your life was a TV show, what would the title be and why? [00:04:44] Speaker B: Oh, that's a good one. That is a good one. If my life were a TV show, huh? So, I mean, I might have to talk this through. The first thing that came to mind is the Rookie, because I just watched that with my children, and we loved it. And on the weekend, we went to a dance competition, and we were kind of making it up and pretending that we were actually in the rookie. But. But I think my life is way too bland to be a rookie rookie episode, you know. You know what's funny? What's coming up for me right now? It would be a sitcom of some sort. It'd be a sitcom. And I don't know why I'm going back in the past, but either Golden Girls or Facts of Life is coming up. [00:05:24] Speaker A: My. I think the. [00:05:27] Speaker B: I know. I think the common theme is just female friendships, relationships. I think that's what's really coming up for me right now. And I mentioned I'm a mom, obviously. I have. I have kids. I have four kids, and they're absolutely super precious to me. But I'm also in a phase of life where they're getting a little bit older. I'm able to come back to some of those friend relationships and nurture those a little bit more. So I think. I think it would be a sitcom. I'm also really being intentional about bringing in a bit more levity and humor into my day. So absolutely, it would be a sitcom for that and a focus on female relationships. [00:06:04] Speaker A: I love that. And funny, you're talking about the Golden Girls. I was talking about that show the other day with somebody, and we were talking about friendship. And just the words in the theme song is so true to friendship. Your heart is true. You're a pal and a confidant. That is like the. The meaning of friendship. So, yeah, it really makes you really think about that. And I do miss the old sitcoms because I find that the. The theme music for shows now is not like it used to be. So when you think about the old shows, you think about the theme music for it, that it's. They're memorable and they'll never be forgotten. For sure. [00:06:46] Speaker B: You're so right. Why don't they do that anymore? There's no. There's no jingle, right? Like Back to Life. Had one. Cheers. Yeah. They need to bring that back. [00:06:59] Speaker A: Yes. We'll have to speak to the producers and get well. Liz, thanks so much for having fun with me. I really appreciate that. To get us started, who are you and what really drives you to do the work that you do? [00:07:11] Speaker B: Love that question. Oh, I am a coach, a leadership coach, a team coach. What really drives me to do the work that I do is to unlock human potential. And I know that sounds like a Hallmark greeting, but I really do believe that our biggest asset on this planet is untapped human potential. Even in this age of AI and advanced technology, to me, the greatest untapped resource we have on this planet is human potential. I'm at a place right now where when I see someone who's exceptional, my mind, you know, I don't ask, why are they like that? My question is, why aren't more of us like that? We all have that capacity to achieve things that would seem just unrealistic to us. Each and every single one of us have this ability to go further than we think we can. And one of the reasons why I'm so passionate about it right now, going back to me being a mom, is because I think we're living in a time of history where we have so many problems that need to be solved. Right? There's just so many. Just pick a direction. Pick, pick, pick it. Pick something. There's so many problems that need to be solved. And I really think that if we could unlo. Human. Untapped human potential, if we could just fire everybody up, we could. We could solve it. [00:08:26] Speaker A: I think you're on the right track there as far as unlocking human potential, because, yes, there are a lot of conversations that I'm having that people haven't unlocked it or they don't realize that they haven't unlocked it. And we'll be probably talking about this in the future, but down the road here. But I am actually in the process of writing a book that's going to come out in September, and we're talking about the uncertainty in leadership. And when you talk about unlocking your potential, that is pretty much the essence of the direction that I'm going in. Because people don't realize as leaders that we not only have potential, but we have the potential to unlock the potential of others, but we're just uncertain as to how to do it. [00:09:14] Speaker B: Yeah, I love that, Andrew. I can't wait for that book. I actually think that we are in a bit of a pressure Cooker right now. Right. The change, the challenge, the uncertainty, the complexity. And if we think of the analogy of a diamond under pressure, a black rock turns into a diamond. So I think that that's what we're in. We're in this pressurized container in our organizations, in our economy and our culture, in our world and our planet. And that pressure will. Will have us evolve into our highest potential. I really do believe that. So I'm excited for your book. [00:09:48] Speaker A: Absolutely. And we'll definitely be talking about that as the months and months go on. For sure. But very excited about it. Absolutely. So today, Liz, the title of our episode focuses on conversations that we have with ourselves. Why do you believe self talk plays such an important role in leadership? [00:10:07] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, if we, if we go back to this idea of achieving our highest potential on this planet, what some of the things that come up for me around that are one, being able to have a purposeful direction for ourselves, something that feels meaningful, that we want to work towards. And I don't want to add too much pressure onto that because then people can get really stuck in, oh my gosh, what's my purpose? And I need to just really figure this out before I take any action. That's actually not how purpose unfolds. You want to take action, and as you take action, you learn, you see what's meaningful. But it's helpful to have a meaningful direction to work towards. And what happens when I work with people is often this self doubt starts to come up, so they start to clarify for themselves something that's meaningful, a direction they want to work towards, or a vision that they see that could be possible for themselves. And then all of a sudden, self doubt comes up. This, this self talk, this inner criticism, these fear, these limiting beliefs, all of that. And I actually think that is the biggest thing that prevents us from unlocking our full potential. It's this whole inner dialogue that is some of it conscious, some of it unconscious that keeps us stuck where we are. [00:11:23] Speaker A: I don't even think people realize that they're doing it either. [00:11:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:26] Speaker A: Many conversations I'm having, they mention it and then you say to them, like, do you just realize what you just said? [00:11:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:32] Speaker A: And they're like, no, what did I say? And then you word it back to them and you're like, oh, well, I didn't realize that's. That's really how I felt. And, and it's super important to, to understand why you're feeling this way. And. And then you were also talking about purposeful direction. And I Love when you said, you don't want to put pressure on that, because, yes, people start to think about, oh, my God, what's my purpose? And I think a lot of us, I think, don't really know what our purpose is right away. It takes time to figure out our purpose by going through different things and situations and having different conversations and. And maybe it's somebody that you have a conversation with that just has a way of, you know, putting the right message into, you know, that there's trying to see that you're like, oh, my God, like, I didn't realize that. And maybe I can do that. Maybe it is something that I could look to do in the future. [00:12:30] Speaker B: I love that. It's absolutely about looking for clues. Right. And you can't figure it out by thinking. Angela Duckworth in her book Grit, it's one of. I really love that book. She's coming out with a new one. I'm excited to read that one, too. But she, she. She researched what is it that makes people gritty? And one of the things she found is they have a sense of purpose. But I think nine times out of 10, that sense of purpose came from through action. So purpose actually started with interest. She said it's very rare. Rare in her research for someone to say there were a few people who were like, you know, five years old. They're like, I'm going to be a doctor. This is the right thing for me. They just knew right from an early age. But most of the time it's. I don't know. I think Julia Child was 50 when she started cooking. It's just a. And she just took a course. She's like, I'll take a course. I'm kind of interested in this. And then it kept growing and growing. And then suddenly culinary arts became something that she was really passionate about. It's only by taking that first step. And then you. And then. And then you were. You were kind of hinting at this. It's really looking for clues, paying attention. And I think the looking for clues, it really is not just paying attention to your thoughts about it, but also paying attention to your physical sensations. So when I'm doing this and I feel excitement or inspiration or aliveness or joy, that's a clue, right? Sometimes it can be anger, too. Your purpose can come from anger, and. And you want to look out for those. Those physical sensations that really tell you, hey, this is a clue. This is a direction to go in. [00:14:01] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, it's almost like when we're a kid, we're trying to learn for the first time how to tie our shoelaces. And we're like, and I can't do it, I can't do it. You keep telling our parents, I can't do it, I can't do it. And they're saying, yes you can. And then finally that, that time where you actually do it, you're like, oh my God, I just, I just did it. [00:14:20] Speaker B: And yes. [00:14:21] Speaker A: So we have to think about those times. Like, okay, we were, we thought it was difficult, but it is not. It's not as difficult as we thought. [00:14:29] Speaker B: I love that because I think you're speaking to something else which I would call faith. Right. Or you can call it belief. But when you start to clarify what's a meaningful direction for yourself, you have to believe that you're capable of moving in that direction. You have to believe that you have to be the one that does that for yourself. If, if you do not have that faith in yourself, you won't take action. And then it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. So your parents, they didn't give up on you. There were times where you couldn't tie your shoelaces. They didn't say, oh well, I guess he's just going to be one of those kids that doesn't tie his shoelaces. They believed that it was possible for you. And we have to have that same level of faith in ourselves to overcome the setbacks and adversity. We have to have that same level of faith. And, and I think most people don't. What happens is they start to take or many people don't, they start to take an action, they face a setback and then the internal story going back to the self talk is I guess I'm just not cut out for this or I guess this is just not meant for me. And notice that self talk, that's important, notice it. But get back to faith and believing that it is possible for you for sure. [00:15:35] Speaker A: So now that we, we believe, why self talk is such an important role in leadership? What I want to know is how can we navigate internal dialogue to impact the way that leaders show for their teams decisions and relationships? [00:15:49] Speaker B: Yeah. So how can. Say it again. How can we impact our dialogue? [00:15:53] Speaker A: Yeah, so how can we, how can we, so how can we navigate internal dialogue impact and impact the way that we show up for our teams decisions and relationships? [00:16:07] Speaker B: I love that question. Okay, so how do we navigate our internal dialogue? [00:16:12] Speaker A: Correct. [00:16:13] Speaker B: Such a good. And I also love the second part of your question because the way we navigate our internal Dialogue has a direct impact on how we approach our team dynamics as well. So I'll give you an example of having an inner critic. Right. I think having an inner critic is a lot more common than we realize. And I think because it's so common, it's kind of been normalized, right? It's been normalized as well. I've got an inner critic. Everyone's got an inner critic. It's just. It's fine, right? It's just. And it's actually not fine. It's very destructive to have an inner critic that you're not navigating in some way. So this is one of the things that I've. I've noticed with the inner critic. When we have an inner critic that is driving us so telling us we're not good enough, being hard on ourselves, you know, why did you do that? You messed that up. Gosh, you'll never figure this out. What happens typically if we're a leader in a team is we will either take that harsh inner critical voice and we lead our team with that. And so I'm talking about, without awareness of these patterns, we lead our team with that. Right? That harsh inner, critical. Well, you're going to get that too, right? We'll leave you with the harsh inner critic, critical approach. Or because we know how difficult it is to be driven by an inner critic, we overcompensate and we coddle our team. So we don't want them to experience anything we're experiencing, so we protect them. We're too kind to them. We soften it, we coddle them. Right. We take too much care of them. Right. And so there's those two extremes, and sometimes we ping pong between the two of them. Right. We're too nice, and then we're critical, and then we're too nice. And so because we haven't resolved that in ourselves, it's showing up in our leadership. [00:17:55] Speaker A: And I want to give a message out to anybody that's listening. As far as leaders go today, what you just said, employees or people on your team are a lot smarter than they were years ago. So they're a lot visible and they notice things a lot. And you're gonna find that you're gonna have team members that are asking you, hey, are you okay? I noticed that something is going on. Are you, you know, is everything okay? I know you can't really maybe talk about everything or there's certain things that you can't talk about, could do to confidentiality, but I just want to make sure that you're okay. That's when you know that you have people who are on your team who see things and who understand situations way better than maybe when you first started leading the team. So we have to be conscious of that as well. [00:18:44] Speaker B: I love that if you have a team like that where one of your teammates is comfortable saying that to you, then you've done a good job, right? You've established a level of trust and safety on the team and to be able to have those kinds of conversations, and I think that's really the goal. It's not to say that as a leader, you know, you have to be 100% perfect all the time. You don't. We're all human. We're going to make mistakes, we're going to get pulled into these old patterns, especially under reactivity and stress and pressure. But it's really about having awareness of how our inner patterns might be impacting the team and being able to make different choices around that. When we think of creating psychologically safe spaces for people, it is not the harsh inner critic approach that that generally leads to that nor is it the coddling, protecting, bubble wrapping, my team approach that leads to that. It's something in the middle where we can be there, offer support, be compassionate, but also say this is, this is the standard and I know you're capable and this is what I expect from you. It's something in the middle. I'll pause there. [00:19:49] Speaker A: And I love, I love that though because you're building that relationship with that person and all for myself. I have friends that, that I'm very, very close with and when I'm talking with them, they're not going to chastise me, but they're gonna, they're willing to have that, you know, that strong, deep conversation with me saying sin, I'm noticing this and I just want to let you know that this is what I'm seeing and you know, and if I can help you, great. Or if you need somebody to talk to, that's great, I'm here. But I see it. So they, they, they have that, that heart centered ability to, to approach you and they're not afraid of the reaction that you're gonna give to them like, oh my God, mind your business or whatever. They know that you have built that strong bond that it's okay to do that and they're not gonna take it on a negative, they're gonna take it as a positive. [00:20:42] Speaker B: Fantastic. If you can get feedback like that from friends who truly it takes a, that's a sign of Love to tell. To give someone feedback that they need. That's tough feedback. That's actually a sign of care and love to be able to do that. [00:20:55] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a tough love. [00:20:57] Speaker B: It's a tough love. I also wanted to address, Andrew, what you said, because there's another part to your question that I didn't fully address. The question around. How do we navigate our own inner self talk. Right? I shared an example of what happens when we don't navigate it well, then. Then we can either be too critical or too coddling. So how do we navigate it? If we. If we recognize in ourselves. You know what? I think I've got an inner critic that's been driving me. How do I navigate that? Well, first and foremost, it's. It's one having the awareness, right? And being able to. So there's awareness of the pattern and then there's awareness of. In real time. Right now my critic has taken over the driver's seat of my car and is like giving me a hard time. It's awareness of the pattern and awareness of when it shows up in real time. Like, that's really helpful to be able to recognize that. I think another key thing is I like to think of these as teammates, right? And it can be helpful to just say, okay, my inner critic is here. And what's also helpful is to actually get curious. What is it that these. These reactive teammates care about? Right? So in the case of the inner critic, because we can have other teammates. In the case of the inner critic, it cares. Let's just say it cares about you doing a good job, right? Generally, there's something important or something valuable. There's a value, there's a need that these reactive parts of ourselves care about. It cares about you doing a good job. But ironically, the way that it does it, by giving you a hard time all the time, it actually has you doing less of a good job in general. It's not actually. It's. Kristin Neff has also done some research around this. She's a compassion. Compassion researcher. And people who have a compassionate approach to themselves actually take on bigger risks and. And go further than people who have a critical approach to themselves. So the ironic thing is that a lot of times these patterns in our self talk. They care about something, but they actually deliver something else. So I always think their intentions are good, but their methods are madness. Right? The intention is I want you to be the best that you can. That's important. I want you to do good work. I want you to have a high standard That's a valuable intention, but it's method of giving you a hard time and beating you up and telling you that you suck is actually madness. It doesn't work. And so you want to get curious about the self talk. One, recognize it, to be able to recognize it in real time when it shows up. Three, get curious, what is it taking care of, what is it worried about, what does it care about? And then four, try to meet that in other more adaptive ways. [00:23:24] Speaker A: So Liz, you've talked about many leaders and how they struggle with self doubt imposter syndrome and fear of failure. What I want to know from you is what are some healthy ways leaders can challenge those internal narratives? [00:23:38] Speaker B: Yeah, so I think there's a, there's a few different strategies here. And I put this in the category of mental and emotional fitness. Right? And just like physical fitness, I think everybody needs to do something to be physically fit. But how you practice physical fitness can vary. So some people like to go for a walk, some people want to swim, some people want to interpretive dance. It's fine, get your heart rate up, it's all good. Just find one strategy that trains your physical fitness. It's the same with mental and emotional fitness. There are different strategies to do it, different exercises you can try. And what I would say is experiment, experiment with it. In my view, having coached a number of people now and also being a human on this planet with my own, you know, talent, my own reactive patterns, and also parenting for kids, my view is we all need some sort of mental and emotional practice for ourselves to boot boost our mental and emotional fitness. So what can you do? So one of it is what I recently said around getting curious around these reactive teammates. What do they, what do they care about? What do they need? You know, having a dialogue with them. That's one strategy, really, just getting curious and having a dialogue with them. Another one is thought reframing. So the inner critic tells me, I, if I don't do things perfectly, then I, I'm not effective. So you can actually reframe that. I don't have to do things perfectly to be effective. Right, and just reframe that thought. Another thing is to think about shifting your state. So in general, the inner critical state is a contracted, stressful, constrained, minimizing state. And so one of the things you can do to shift out of that is just change your state right away. Get up, drink some cold water, splash some water on your face. Like, just learn to recognize when you've gone into an inner critical state and train yourself to interrupt it as quickly as possible. Your best work is not going to come from a state of you being hard on yourself. So get, learn to recognize it and interrupt it as quickly as possible. I'll offer one more strategy you can put. This is, this is one that comes from acceptance and commitment theory act. It's a fun one. So you can take your inner critic voice. Sorry. And put it into like a cartoon character voice, right? So if it says you suck, Liz, you just, you're, you're the worst. You're never going to get it. You're just never going to get it. You can just turn it into a funny voice and that helps you distance it from a little bit. It takes the pressure off. And I'll give one more strategy. If there's one thing that it keeps saying over and over again like, you suck, you're never going to be good enough. You can keep saying that ironically, it seems like it. You don't want to be repeating it, but you can keep saying that over and over and over again until you no longer feel an emotional response to that. You suck. You're never going to be good enough. Just keep saying it until you're like, you know what? That's just background noise. Now it doesn't even affect me. [00:26:33] Speaker A: I love all those. I, I like the cartoon character one because as you were doing it was making me smile. So I could see someone doing that and then after a while they're like smiling like, oh my God, what am I doing? I'm talking like. [00:26:45] Speaker B: Exactly. Exactly. [00:26:47] Speaker A: Yeah. What's wrong? They totally forget everything. So. [00:26:50] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:26:51] Speaker A: It's totally. See that one working for sure. [00:26:53] Speaker B: That's it. And it's, it's a bit of a trial and error. Just like physical fitness. Try the running. You don't like it. Then try swimming. It's the same with physical and emotional, with mental and emotional fitness. Try one. You don't like that one, Try something else. [00:27:04] Speaker A: So I, I just, I think that it's. That's, they're, they're awesome. I think there's such great ideas and, and you're absolutely right. Practicing. They say practice makes perfect. Right. So we just have to practice and figure out what works best for us. Right? [00:27:16] Speaker B: So. Yeah. [00:27:16] Speaker A: Yeah. So. So you talked about practices. What habits or practices have helped you become more intentional about your mindset, self awareness and emotional well being as a leader. [00:27:28] Speaker B: I love that. So one of the things I do first every day is I, I change my state. So I prime myself in the morning first thing to be in what I call a grounded and expanded state state. So the way we're operating in our world right now, if you are human, you are likely being triggered into a reactive state. Right? It's not a failing, it's humanity. It's the news, it's the notifications, it's the wars, it's the tariffs, it's the social media, it's all of that. Right? And so one of the things that I do first thing, and I recommend everybody does it, is right away, prime your state, get into a resourceful, grounded and expanded state. This is something you can train. There's different ways to do it. I have a free download if people are interested. I'm happy to share it. Train your state. Then what you want to do, you want to get into that more elevated state and then you want to plan your day from there. Right. When I'm in a more elevated, expanded, resourceful state, what do I actually want to focus on today? Right. This is something I ask myself. And so you want to, you want to be careful of your steak is. Just think about it. What kind of decisions do you make around food when you are in a contracted, stressed, constrained state versus a grounded, expanded, resourceful state. Right. We all know the answer. I eat pure junk when I am in a contracted state. So that's just food to think about. How you're approaching your day, your team, all the decisions you have to make. Right. When you're in that contracted state. So first thing, get up, train your state, get into a grounded, expanded, resourceful state, then plan your day. What's important once you're in that state. So I'll do that in the morning and then in the evening. Evenings are for reflection and recovery ideally. Right. So in the evening, reflect on your day and notice what when did I get pulled out of this resourceful state? When did my inner critic decide to come and like beat me over the head 10 million times today? Just start to observe that and notice that this will increase your self awareness and you'll start to see your own patterns. We all have them. You'll start to notice your, what I call their leadership growth edges. These are just areas that are opportunities of growth for you. [00:29:44] Speaker A: I'm smiling from ear to ear because you're talking about something that I think a lot of us think about. When you're saying your inner critic. I was just talking about this on a previous podcast episode and I was saying that we are in a situation where there's so much going on in the world, it's so polarizing right now. And everybody has an opinion on everything. And what I was seeing on this episode is, is that what I've learned in the last year is that I am not going to change anybody else's opinion on anything. So I've actually, I've stopped trying to change someone's opinion. So if someone says something to me, I will say, sure, okay, no problem. I respect your opinion on that. And I will maybe give my opinion. But then I'll say, hopefully you will respect my opinion as much as I have respected yours. There have been situations where it didn't go that way, and that's okay, but at least I feel like I am not going to do that, because what. What I was finding was that it became so stressful and that back and forth battle. It's almost like we're in. In a rabbit. In a rabbit cage or a gerbil cage. We're just going in circle and circle and circle and circle and circle. And there's no end. There's. And we're just keep doing that circle. And at the end, you're like, what just happened there? Yeah, like nothing. Nothing got resolved. So what? So I felt like, okay, well, I'm gonna resolve it by. Right from the beginning. This is what, this is how I feel. That's how you feel. Let's respect each other and. And move forward. [00:31:40] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. So that, I mean, that's a advanced level leadership skill. Right? Is. And then what I also hear in that is in the past, potentially both parties were maybe getting pulled into a more reactive state. Right. Conflict is going to do that. Conflict will do that. And you're making the choice to. I'm not going to go into a reactive state. I'm going to stay in a resourceful and grounded state. You have your opinion. I can still. And I'm almost hearing some fondness. I'm still, you know, I'm still fond of you and I disagree with you, and I'm over here and you're over there, and that's okay. That's okay. [00:32:14] Speaker A: I mean, depending on the person, like, I will tell them, you know what? I still love you. But this is my. This is, you know, we disagree, and that's okay. Yeah, we're okay to disagree. You know, I'm not gonna. I'm still gonna love you when we hang up the phone. I'm still gonna love you when I walk away. That's just how it is. [00:32:29] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, you're also bringing up the importance of listening skills. Right. And one of the women I've learned from, Jennifer Garvey Berger, she talks about listening to win. A lot of us are just listening to win versus listening to learn. And you've moved out of listening to win. [00:32:46] Speaker A: Well, that's it. So we try our best and, and hopefully it all works out and, and that. And we just move forward. For sure. [00:32:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:32:53] Speaker A: So, Liz, before we wrap up here, what is one key takeaway they take away that you like our listeners to remember from this episode? [00:33:03] Speaker B: What I would say is if they're listening and they're feeling stressed and overwhelmed and challenged and downtrod, you know, I really just want to say that you're not alone in that. You're absolutely not alone in that we're living in very complex and challenging times. And I also want to say though, if you feel like there's a, a potential future that's brighter for you, like you, you have this sense that there's an expanded version of yourself that's there in the future or this bigger impact you can be having in the future. Like you, you just feel that there's something bigger out there for you and you haven't quite attained it yet, or you feel like something is getting in the way between where you are and this expanded future, this expanded impact that you could be having, whether it's in your career, in your team, in your organization. If you're feeling that, what I would say is that a lot of times it's your own internal dialogue, your own internal beliefs, your own internal sense making. That's the gap. So often we want to look at externals. It's the outer environment that's impeding me and 100% that plays a role. But most people underestimate how much of the resistance is on the inside and how much they can change by focusing on that first. [00:34:21] Speaker A: That is great advice. I love that and I hope that all the listeners take heed of that and try it out for sure. My call to action would be to like share and follow this episode. Liz, I wanted to take the time to thank you for coming on today. What I admire about you is your energy, your assertiveness, your balance, how powerful you are and how genuine you are. It just been such an absolute pleasure to, to chat with you, get to know you and of course have you on here today. So thank you very much, Andrew. [00:34:53] Speaker B: Thank you. I did not know you were going to say any of that and I'll share right back to you. I just. When I see you, all I see is heart. I don't know. That's. That's all I see right. This quality of hurtfulness, and I think that's an important one to be having in our world today. Thanks for having me on. [00:35:07] Speaker A: You're very welcome. On behalf of myself and my guest Liz, I'd like to thank you all for listening today. And until next time, be safe. And remember, everyone, that if we all work together, we can accomplish anything. [00:35:20] Speaker B: You have been listening to. Let's be Diverse with Andrew Stout to stay up to date with future content. Hit Subscribe.